Please feel free to discuss your battle strategies here.  This is meant as a player discussion thread

I may not evaluate every post, so if you have questions for me, post them in the comments section or the game thread.

we have no way of knowing the answers unfortunately, so our guesses are going to have to do. your plan seems fine enough and we can go with it(unless someone has something better; i dont).

for defending the main gorge it may be best to have two light cannons (alternating their fire) and two medium catapults (alternating their fire).

If we do that, bear in mind that the catapults can only fire once every 12 rounds and the cannons can only fire once every 15 rounds. It may be better to use light catapults instead of medium, since they can fire once every 8 rounds.

so we should have 6-8 waves to contend with during the length of the battle

Let's take a vote. Everyone, what would be your 8 choices for bombardment engines and their targetted areas? Mine would be:

1. Light cannon (targets main gorge)
2. Light cannon (targets main gorge)
3. Light catapult (targets main gorge)
4. Light catapult (targets main gorge)
5. Medium ballista (targets northeast meadow)
6. Medium ballista (targets northeast meadow)
7. Medium ballista (targets northwest-most inlet)
8. Light ballista (targets middle north inlet)

After comparing everyone's votes, we can see which commonalities we have. Then we can discuss where we differ.

Just keep in mind that, due to the height in the gorge walls, you can't fire over to the meadow in the northeast.  You'd have to fire through the narrow path leading there.

What about the elevated grassy areas at the north of the gorge?

You can get to the dark areas on the ledge, but the lighter areas are accessible from the north side.

What I'm saying is, if we put bombardment engines up there, could they target the northern meadow?

You can't get bombardment machines into those areas, only the ones on the upper left side, and you can't fire from those into the grassy area.

This message was deleted by the player at 19:49, Tue 11 Oct 2011.

I see. But we could get the engines up on the gorge's north ledge?

No.  You can get people up there for an ambush but not the bombardment engines.  It is too rocky.

What about the elevated grassy patches bordering the northern inlets? Can't get engines up there either? Are we basically going to have to keep all the engines on ground level?

They need to be on ground level except for the northern areas at about D5-10 and J5-10.

Let's start with the basics:

1. We have two main zones to defend - the main gorge and the 3 northern inlets. How many of our 102 men should we designate (roughly) to defend each zone?

2. We have 8 bombardment engines plus the sun ray at our disposal - how many should we site to defend the gorge and how many should we site to defend the 3 northern inlets?

3. It takes 1-8 crew to man each bombardment engine. Do we want most of our men manning engines, most prepared for melee, or an even balance of both?



Some statistics and notes:

- The maximum number of infantry available for melee would be 93 men if we had only 1 crew per bombardment engine (i.e. all light catapults/ballistae).

- If we were to divide our forces evenly into 4 groups (1 group of infantry and 1 group of bombardment crews to defend each zone), we'd have 25-26 men per group. If each bombardment group had 4 engines, that would be an average of 6 crew per engine (enough to have them all manning heavy cannons).

- The most accurate bombardment engines are light cannons and light ballistae (12 THAC0). The engines with the fastest rate of fire are light ballistae and light catapults (able to fire once every 8 rounds).

- Only catapults and trebuchets can hurl burning projectiles. Only catapults can hurl Greek fire canisters.

- If we choose to have any catapults, I recommend only light catapults, as they have a 14 THAC0, fire once every 8 rounds, cover the same AOE as medium and heavy catapults, and require only 1 crew to man each of them.

- The max number of squares on the map an engine can cover with its AOE is 5 squares (heavy cannon). Trebuchets/bombards/great bombards cover 4 squares. Medium cannons cover 2 squares. Light cannons cover 1 2/3 squares. Heavy/medium ballistae cover 1 1/3 squares. Heavy/medium/light catapults cover 1 square. Light ballistae cover 1/3 square.

- I see 11 potentially effective locations for both bombardment engines and groups of archers to be sited: E5, K5, H11, M11, O11, P3, R12, U12, V19, Y19, cc9.

- The sun ray could potentially be very effective in long, narrow bottleneck areas such as the 3 northern inlets, especially the northeast-most inlet (or the northern meadow). Its bolts can go through targets, meaning it can hit long lines of units. It could also be very effective for firing straight down the center of the gorge where most of the orcs will be coming from.

- Having at least one bombardment engine sited on the elevated grassy area between the two west-most northern inlets would allow it to target enemies in either of the two inlets with a 90 degree rotation, like a turret.

- If a small group of rogues (say, 5-10) acted as covert scouts during the battle, they could warn us of approaching war machines, infantry units, and small guerrilla forces in both the main gorge and the 3 northern inlets ahead of time in order for us to reposition some of our bombardment engines and troops to defend vulnerable areas. This could help us maximize the effectiveness of each engine and soldier so that at any given time, as few men as possible are wasted defending non-threatened areas and the maximum available troops are defending the areas being attacked.

1) using only 1 or 2 men/bombardment engine is good, with the rest of the forces divided up to defend the main gorge and the 3 northern inlets. we can have a smaller force at the inlets, with the ability to call for reinforcements if overwhelmed or the bombardment engines are in trouble.  the main part of the forces will be able to defend the gorge, but we should also set up some ambushes (at least one) at the gorge as well

2) the sunray should be focused on the gorge, but it can easily (?) be turned to focus on the inlets. for the inlets/gorge division of engines i propose a 70/30 split (or thereabouts), with the 70% defending the gorge

3) 1-2 men per engine should be enough, unless we want one or two to be a faster/better unit with 3-4 men



two light cannons, and the rest light catapults



any of those look good



agreed on both counts


perhaps the engine with 3-4 men could be here, fast RoF and the ability to turn quickly



we need to know which direction they are initially going to attack from, ie the gorge, the inlets, or both. the sooner the scouts can get this info to us the better off we will be

Agreed for the most part. However, if we only use 1-2 men per bombardment engine, we're limiting ourselves to light/medium ballistae and light catapults only. Good rate of fire and good to moderate accuracy, but not much damage or AOE there. I think at the very least, we should allow for some light cannons, which are accurate and decent on damage and AOE. Light cannons require a crew of 3 men to man them, which isn't too bad.


That might be doable. Hopefully the scouts and earthroc riders can warn us in advance if we need to position more defenses at the northern inlets for incoming enemy units.


I don't think you can improve an engine's rate of fire or other stats beyond those listed in the table with extra crew. I think those numbers are each engine's optimum performance. Also, see above for why having only 1-2 men per engine might not be a good idea.


I'll note that down as one possible strategy to compare with others.


Actually, the engines with larger crews tend to be the ones with slower turn rates. All ballistae and light-medium cannons and catapults have a 0 turn rate. It's only bombards, great bombards, heavy catapults, trebuchets, and heavy cannons that have slow turning rates. I definitely agree that we shouldn't put any of those up there. We should put something there with a 0 turn rate (meaning it can turn 45 degrees in the same round it fires, or 90 degrees if it doesn't fire that round). If we expect less frequent intrusions from the northern inlets, then a light cannon might be the best choice - accurate, fires once every 15 rounds, and requires a crew of 3. If we expect frequent intrusions, then a light ballista would probably be better - just as accurate, but fires once every 8 rounds and requires a crew of just 1.


Agreed. I plan to have Adaran, Duanthar (Polyanthar's ranger), and 5 rogues scout out the northeast inlet, and suggest that Naj and Arthure each take 5 rogues and scout out the other two inlets. Then each group can post a few sentries to keep watch of the inlets (spaced apart at shouting distance so the front-most sentries can holler down a warning that gets passed along each chain to our forces whenever approaching orc units are sighted). Another option would be for earthroc riders to remain stationed in each inlet, keeping watch until approaching enemies are sighted, and then fly back to warn us immediately with details on what's coming. I think both could be viable tactics. One is stealthier for when we don't want the orcs to know we've seen them, one is faster for scrambling defenses in emergencies.

yes both strategies are good. the earthrocs can offer us the farthest/fastest scouting for enemy movements. we should have them in air (at least on and off during the pre-battle time) to get early warning of their movements.

where are borimer's exploding barrels being placed?

we should place at least one ambush for the main gorge.  they are in a bad place when traveling through it as we have them in a bottlenecked area to attack, and we should takea advantage of this.

Is Polyanthar going to let you use his ranger? I thought all of Polyanthar's and Anlisade's men were going to stay with them?

Polyanthar and Anlisade's men must be kept together and cannot be separated.

I'm glad you brought up the sun ray.  The sun ray focuses light from the sun and uses a replaceable crystal when it fires.  There are 5 crystals remaining.

It fires like a lightning bolt and has a 25% chance of hitting those in each square it passes through (since the squares represent a large area).

Its effects are:

-4 temporary reduction in constitution
-5 temporary reduction in strength

It causes 5d10 damage (halved for saving throw).

The damage is reduced by 1d10 for every 10 feet beyond 50 (maximum range: 100 feet).  The reduction and constitution and strength is also reduced by one for every 10 feet beyond 50.

It can fire once every 3 rounds.

It requires three people (Anlisade's sons) to operate.  (They can separate from Anlisade's group to stay with the weapon.)

The weapon cannot be easily moved due to a precise alignment of its crystals and two devices about 10 feet apart.  (Anyone stepping between the two devices when it is going off will suffer 10d10 dmg, no saving throw, and paralyzation for 1d4 rounds.)

IMPORTANT NOTE:  The Sun Ray also requires direct light from the sun.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:59, Wed 12 Oct 2011.

Agreed.


I suggest placing them at the east edge of the main gorge and covering them with oil, to be detonated by burning projectiles and flaming arrows when the orcs are in range.


Agreed. I suggest having a group of archers, rogues, at least 1 mage, at least 1 cleric, and a group of animated skeletons hiding in the cave at the northeast edge of the gorge, as well as another group of skeletons hiding in the nearby pit.



In that case, I'll probably have Adaran scout out the northeast inlet, Arthure scout out the middle inlet, and suggest that Naj's group scout out the northwest inlet.


That does change our plans a bit. The sun ray's immobility and very short range make it non-viable for defending the main gorge in my opinion - but highly viable for defending the narrow entrance to the northeast meadow. I recommend placing it there.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:37, Wed 12 Oct 2011.

Borimer said he'd prefer a division of 70% of our forces for the main gorge and 30% for the northern inlets (at least as a starting point, until the scouts report back). That sounds about right. So how about this:

Total force (including PC's): 110 men
Main gorge: 77 men (70% of total)
Northern inlets: 33 men (30% of total)

MAIN GORGE
Borimer
Kahan
Grung
Flint
Anlisade's men (9)
Polyanthar's men (10)
49 warriors (including bombardment crews)
1 rogue (scouting on earthroc)
2 mages
2 clerics

NORTHERN INLETS
Adaran (setting traps)
Grizz (setting traps)
Naj (setting traps)
Arthure (setting traps)
14 rogues (3 scouting on earthrocs, 11 setting traps)
2 light cannons and crews for northwest and middle elevated grassy areas (6 warriors)
3 mages (1 for each inlet)
3 clerics (1 for each inlet)
Sun ray and crew for northeast inlet (3 of Anlisade's level 1 warriors)
This message was last edited by the player at 00:48, Thu 13 Oct 2011.

looks good to me