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Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn.

Posted by GM ArkrimFor group 0
Vry
Sorcerer 2,442, 448 posts
Advanced Gnome
Shadow's Caress
Sat 20 Jan 2018
at 11:40
  • msg #177

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

I see now that the hand actually did not succeed at grappling Ankou... As a result, the AC outside of the parenthesis are the correct numbers.
Lyn
Magus 1,141, 65 posts
Elf Magus
Sat 20 Jan 2018
at 12:24
  • msg #178

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

23:23, Today: Lyn rolled 23 using 1d20+19 ((4)).

What did you cast please Vry?
Vry
Sorcerer 2,442, 450 posts
Advanced Gnome
Shadow's Caress
Sat 20 Jan 2018
at 13:27
  • msg #179

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

Identify Spell Being Cast
Identifying a spell as it is being cast requires no action, but you must be able to clearly see the spell as it is being cast, and this incurs the same penalties as a Perception skill check due to distance, poor conditions, and other factors.


So, seeing the spell as it is being cast... As the spell does not have any direct visual effects, like for example a color spray does, the spellcraft check is probably affected by invisibility?

Perception Modifiers DC Modifier
Distance to the source, object, or creature +1/10 feet
Through a closed door +5
Through a wall +10/foot of thickness
Favorable conditions –2
Unfavorable conditions +2
Terrible conditions +5
Creature making the check is distracted +5
Creature making the check is asleep +10
Creature or object is invisible +20

Ankou
Druid 1,306, 450 posts
Dwarf Druid 906BP
Thaumaturgical Alliance
Sat 20 Jan 2018
at 13:47
  • msg #180

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

Vry:
I see now that the hand actually did not succeed at grappling Ankou... As a result, the AC outside of the parenthesis are the correct numbers.

 Good :) unlikely as it may seem, Ankou is actually stronger than the hand. Marginally, but stronger.
 I’m waiting for your swift action before I decide on my own ;)
Ankou
Druid 1,306, 451 posts
Dwarf Druid 906BP
Thaumaturgical Alliance
Sat 20 Jan 2018
at 14:05
  • msg #181

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

I thought I’d give it a shot (but didn’t roll a natural 20...)

Ankou rolled 30 using 1d20+16 with rolls of 14.  Spellcraft: identify Vry’s spell.
Maelstrom
Monk 1,356, 400 posts
Human Monk
SotVD
Sat 20 Jan 2018
at 14:51
  • msg #182

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

Looks like Maelstrom got lucky!

08:50, Today: Maelstrom rolled 28 using 1d20+19 with rolls of 9.  Will save v. Vry's spell.
Vry
Sorcerer 2,442, 451 posts
Advanced Gnome
Shadow's Caress
Sat 20 Jan 2018
at 16:53
  • msg #183

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

Vry then uses her swift action to redirect the spell, targeting Lyn. Same DC, no immediate effect, 15 rounds duration.
Maelstrom
Monk 1,356, 401 posts
Human Monk
SotVD
Sat 20 Jan 2018
at 17:48
  • msg #184

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

In reply to Vry (msg # 183):

Forgot to take grappled penalties to AC: Corrected

 AC: (31); FFAC: 22; Touch: (31)
CMD: (40); FFCMD: 31; FFTAC: 22
Lyn
Magus 1,141, 66 posts
Elf Magus
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 05:31
  • msg #185

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

16:31, Today: Lyn rolled 13 using 1d20+9 with rolls of 4.  Will save DC28.

Well, I guess we're about to find out what that spell was the hard way.
Vry
Sorcerer 2,442, 452 posts
Advanced Gnome
Shadow's Caress
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 08:00
  • msg #186

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

That’s all for Vry’s turn!
Ankou
Druid 1,306, 452 posts
Dwarf Druid 906BP
Thaumaturgical Alliance
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 08:47
  • msg #187

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

Does something happen to Lyn?
Vry
Sorcerer 2,442, 453 posts
Advanced Gnome
Shadow's Caress
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 09:21
  • msg #188

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

Haha, no, not at once. There is an ongoing effect on her with 15 rounds duration.
Ankou
Druid 1,306, 453 posts
Dwarf Druid 906BP
Thaumaturgical Alliance
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 11:53
  • msg #189

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

Does the hand threaten squares around it? If so how far?
Vry
Sorcerer 2,442, 454 posts
Advanced Gnome
Shadow's Caress
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 11:59
  • msg #190

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

I'd love to say yes, but grapple and bull rush are the only things it can do - and it's instructed to do the first. Both those are standard action, not attacks, and thus cannot be done as AoO. If I did tell it to be between us, however, I think it would be impossible for you to get around it.
Ankou
Druid 1,306, 454 posts
Dwarf Druid 906BP
Thaumaturgical Alliance
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 12:17
  • msg #191

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

All right, noted. I’ll have my post up shortly.
Ankou
Druid 1,306, 455 posts
Dwarf Druid 906BP
Thaumaturgical Alliance
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 14:45
  • msg #192

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

The Ankou walked around the hand, and looked at Maelstrom grappling an invisible creature... he timed his strike to avoid hitting the monk. His monstrous jaw closed on the gnome, and no amount of concealment would fool him.


 ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRST 
1+1+10              0+1+11
2+1+10     0000     0+1+12
3000     0+300     0003
4        0000        4
5        0000        5
6                    6
7                    7
8                    8
9 0000   0000   0000 9
10 0000   0+1+10   00+30 10
11 0+300   0+1+10   0000 11
12 0000   0000   0000 12
13                    13
14                    14
15             HH     15
16        0000AAHH     16
17        000L+20AA       17
18000     00+30V+2     00018
19+1+10     000M+20     0+1R+119
20+1+10              0+1+120
 ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRST 
V = Vry
T = Taff (Vry's companion)
R = Riddiz (Vry's cohort)
H = Vry's summoned Hand
A = Ankou
M = Maelstrom
L = Lyn

   ROUND: Round 5 (Initiative: 10)
POSITION: N13-O14 to L16-M17
 ACTIONS:  walk around Hand(move), attack Vry (standard)

 HP: 75/247 (0 nonlethal)
 AC: 25; FFAC: 13; Touch: 09
CMD: 31 ;FFCMD: 29 FFTAC: 06

EFFECTS: Haste, Wild Shape, iron skin

   GEAR:   fauchard, Ring ,Wood armor, Boots, Amulet, belt,
          Backpack, belt pouch, dagger, sling, spell component pouch,

   USES: wild shape 1/6, spell level 6 3/?, 2 hero point.

DICE ROLLS:
Ankou rolled 24,21,3 using d20+21,d8+19,2d6 with rolls of 3,2,1,2.  bite Vry.
 That's some terrible rolls...

  SUMMARY: Ankou casually walks to Vry, and bites for 24 damage.
 

Vry
Sorcerer 2,442, 455 posts
Advanced Gnome
Shadow's Caress
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 14:56
  • msg #193

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

Ankou:
Ankou casually walks to Vry, and bites for 24 damage.


Vry takes 12 damage, Lyn takes 12 damage!
Maelstrom
Monk 1,356, 402 posts
Human Monk
SotVD
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 18:23
  • msg #194

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

In reply to Vry (msg # 193):

I think I know the spell you used and if it is what I think, it has both somatic and material components. Now you could have feats or other special abilities to ignore those components but if not, I don't think you can use the spell while grappled.

quote:
To cast a spell with a somatic (S) component, you must gesture freely with at least one hand. You can’t cast a spell of this type while bound, grappling, or with both your hands full or occupied.


quote:
Casting Spells while Grappled/Grappling: The only spells which can be cast while grappling or pinned are those without somatic components and whose material components (if any) you have in hand. Even so, you must make a concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler’s CMB + the level of the spell you’re casting) or lose the spell.

Vry
Sorcerer 2,442, 456 posts
Advanced Gnome
Shadow's Caress
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 18:46
  • msg #195

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

d20pfsrd.com is quite unclear on that topic, owing I think to the fact that paizo have never issued an official statement on what is actually false and what is correct. However, looking up the latest rulebooks as well as paizo's own website, it becomes clear that the "can't cast spells with somatic components" thingy is meant to apply to pinned and not to grappled.

Quoting myself from Duel #214: Tinny Tina vs. Vry, msg #38:
Vry:
I've heard there's some controversy surrounding that...

Core Rulebook 6th printing, p. 567:
Grappled: A grappled creature is restrained by a creature,
trap, or effect. Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4
penalty to Dexterity. A grappled creature takes a –2 penalty
on all attack rolls and combat maneuver checks, except those
made to grapple or escape a grapple. In addition, grappled
creatures
can take no action that requires two hands to
perform. A grappled character who attempts to cast a spell or
use a spell-like ability must make a concentration check (DC
10 + grappler’s CMB + spell level, see page 206), or lose the
spell. Grappled creatures cannot make attacks of opportunity.
A grappled creature cannot use Stealth to hide from
the creature grappling it, even if a special ability, such as
hide in plain sight, would normally allow it to do so. If
a grappled creature becomes invisible, through a spell or
other ability, it gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD
to avoid being grappled, but receives no other benefit.


And
Core Rulebook 6th printing, p. 206:
Grappled or Pinned: Casting a spell while you have the
grappled or pinned condition is difficult and requires a
concentration check (DC 10 + the grappler’s CMB + the
level of the spell you’re casting). Pinned creatures can
only cast spells that do not have somatic components.



Game developers have also stated that this is how it is supposed to be interpreted, that pinned restricts somatic component spellcasting and not grappled:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k...Spell-vs-grappling#4
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k...pell-vs-grappling#12

Vry
Sorcerer 2,442, 457 posts
Advanced Gnome
Shadow's Caress
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 18:49
  • msg #196

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

Correct paizo links:
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k...Spell-vs-grappling#4
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2k...pell-vs-grappling#12

(It was stated in older rulebooks, in some places, that the same goes with both pinned and grappled when it comes to somatic components, but that has since been updated)
Maelstrom
Monk 1,356, 403 posts
Human Monk
SotVD
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 19:25
  • msg #197

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

In reply to Vry (msg # 196):

You may be right about this one. Honestly, they say pinned is a more severe form of grappling but they seemed more or elss the same to me (excluding dex penalty). If only pinned prevented any spells from being cast with Somatic or Material components, that would make a lot more sense to me as being more severe. Ultimately, I think I agree with you here.

But one more argument to go!

Eschew Materials -
quote:
Benefit: You can cast any spell with a material component costing 1 gp or less without needing that component. The casting of the spell still provokes attacks of opportunity as normal. If the spell requires a material component that costs more than 1 gp, you must have the material component on hand to cast the spell, as normal.


quote:
Components V, S, M (ruby dust worth 250 gp)


I think you would actually have to have the material component for this one?
Vry
Sorcerer 2,442, 458 posts
Advanced Gnome
Shadow's Caress
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 19:37
  • msg #198

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

Shiiiieeeet, had not seen that! Any chance I could replace that with another, lower level spell? It is my whole round, and I did make all the necessary checks, so it was a big effort... >_>
Maelstrom
Monk 1,356, 404 posts
Human Monk
SotVD
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 20:12
  • msg #199

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

In reply to Vry (msg # 198):

As your opponent, I am going to say no :)

We've already progressed, rolls, saves, etc. have already been made and you know the results of those actions.

The spell is wasted. As you attempted to cast your spell you realized you left your ruby dust at home. The spell fizzles without the necessary components. A look of horror crosses the gnome's face.

< -- See I even prepared your flavor text.
Grunyar Fangblood
Summoner 2,455, 748 posts
Skinwalker Summoner
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 20:20
  • msg #200

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

In reply to Maelstrom (msg # 199):

LOL, with less flavor Maelstrom is right spell would fizzle and spell slot lost.
Ankou
Druid 1,306, 456 posts
Dwarf Druid 906BP
Thaumaturgical Alliance
Sun 21 Jan 2018
at 21:01
  • msg #201

Re: Juggernaut #14: Vry vs. Ankou, Maelstrom, & Lyn

Ouch, that’s bad luck... and it was such a clever move, too!
I for one was ready to sacrifice Lyn ;)
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