horus
 member, 210 posts
 Wayfarer of the
 Western Wastes
Mon 7 Aug 2017
at 01:30
How dumb can you be?
In reply to mickey65 (message no. 971):

What icosahedron152 said in spades. (So very well said, by the way!)

Being honest with players is by no means an invitation for them to run over you, and is, instead, a mark of good character and an indication of respect and trust. These are what we should offer as GMs until someone proves they deserve differently.  Even then, it's best to proceed calmly and deliberately.

If a point of contention concerning rules or game mechanics comes up, work to resolve it, either through consensus, research and interpretation, or just by making a ruling (pro forma Rule 0 equivalent), but above all continue that honesty about what you're doing and why in all things.  Players generally respect a GM they feel is trying to give them all a fair shake (at least my players do).

The only other advice I'd offer in the situation is this:  A GM should never post when feeling angry or irritated.  It doesn't matter how fired up you might be, resist that urge to hit the Post Message button until you've had a chance to cool and then review.  For one, if a player who is actually being troublesome can make you lose your cool, they've won... don't give in to that.  For the other, taking the time to collect your wits will often allow you to see things you may not have seen at first glance, and make for a better outcome.

This message was last edited by the user at 01:31, Mon 07 Aug.

icosahedron152
 member, 776 posts
Mon 7 Aug 2017
at 04:02
How dumb can you be?
Thanks, Horus. Good point there - GM responses should always be firm but friendly, never angry and accusatory. This is PbP, there is never a need for an immediate response. Keep calm, think your reply through, and post when you're good and ready.

And that advice is good for players, too, not just GMs. :)
Merevel
 member, 1199 posts
 The Unlucky Gamer
Mon 7 Aug 2017
at 13:14
How dumb can you be?
In reply to mickey65 (msg # 972):

Well, it is possible they are learning the system. I was playing with a gm that pretty much should have rewrote the book for his own needs, however you never got a warning before hand on what was ok or not. Trial and error I guess was how we figured it out. This guy thought I was being a Apple, just because I kept asking questions, especially where the rule books differed from his style. How can I expect to play if I do not know what is ok or not?

Now, this was doubly frustrating as I am trying to learn the rules to run my own game while dealing with his... quirks. This is one of the reasons I left his game. I was not trying to be a fruit about it, I just needed to know. >.<
mickey65
 member, 103 posts
 Long-time PbP player
 Love several systems
Sun 20 Aug 2017
at 16:21
How dumb can you be?
Things will be resolved within the next 48 hours.

Whatever is being planned for me, the status quo is unsustainable, so any change will be a good change.

Will it be simple minor surgery with less than a one-week recovery time? Or will it be death? Or will it be some unspeakable horror I can't be bothered to speculate about?

In all of those cases, things will be different by this time on Tuesday. And that's a good thing.

I'm looking forward to it.
Fyrerain
 member, 78 posts
Wed 23 Aug 2017
at 14:15
How dumb can you be?
My voice was fine when I left home this morning. I had to bellow for my dog, who'd gone off down to the road (my driveway is a tenth of a mile long!). By the time I'd reached town coming in to work, however, all I had left of a voice was a weak croak.

My allergies are pretty flared up right now (monsoon rains have the weeds and grasses going wild, and I'm allergic to all grasses, and 50% of all weeds...), which has my asthma almost out of control, so it's probably also behind my sudden voice loss. It's a given that if I get a sinus infection, I will lose my voice, but I've never lost it before getting an infection before. Grrrrrrrrrr.

And I'm supposed to be DMing a game tonight....
ShadoPrism
 member, 1115 posts
 OCGD-Obsessive-Compulsive
 Gamer-Disorder
Wed 23 Aug 2017
at 19:28
How dumb can you be?
In reply to Fyrerain (msg # 979):

I see flash cards in your gaming future.
RPGuru92
 member, 164 posts
Wed 23 Aug 2017
at 19:31
How dumb can you be?
I am a full time tired daddy. Once a former teacher, everyone said I was "retiring" after I declared I was leaving to be a stay at home dad.

My son is two years old- this is no retirement!
mickey65
 member, 114 posts
 Long-time PbP player
 Love several systems
Wed 23 Aug 2017
at 20:34
How dumb can you be?
In reply to RPGuru92 (msg # 981):

I wholeheartedly agree! But do you mind if I ask what led to the decision to become a full-time caregiver of a small child?
RPGuru92
 member, 165 posts
Wed 23 Aug 2017
at 20:35
How dumb can you be?
Educator salary= good daycare
Tyr Hawk
 member, 319 posts
 You know that one guy?
 Yeah, that's me.
Mon 4 Sep 2017
at 22:30
I Just Want To Scream
Sometimes I lay awake at night just so I can pretend that I'll wake up somewhere else in the morning.

I know that my life isn't the worst one to wake up to. I have a loving and generous family, a cat that tolerates me most days, and despite my egregious personality flaws and my looks, even a woman in my life who thinks I'm pretty amazing. I have no mobility issues, or communicable diseases, and I've never broken a bone in my life. I eat well-enough, have a roof over my head and steady internet access, my job is pretty good, my schoolwork isn't too hard, and gods help me I even have some luxuries like a PS4 and a flatscreen TV. It's not a bad life. It's a good one.

But it's not perfect. And problems are problems, regardless of who has them. Just because I haven't been held in prison doesn't mean I can't feel trapped with no hope of escape. Just because I haven't starved or lost an arm doesn't mean I can't be hungry, or that it doesn't hurt when I bleed. I try not to judge anyone for their little issues just because they talk about them like they're big ones... and so I guess I'm starting off this way in hopes that I won't be judged too harshly for what I'm about to say. I know this is already a safe space, so I don't have to, but... but I sometimes have to convince myself it's okay to talk, and this is how I'm doing it this time.

So, yeah, I guess I should get to the venting part.

Hi. I'm Tyr and some days I wish I was anyone else. Today, in particular, I want to be someone else just so I can stop with the stupid arguments and making poor decisions. I know I can be antagonistic. I'm a Devil's Advocate; it's what I do. I think that people possessing and only discussing one side of an argument is a mistake. Whether or not I agree with another side of something, I will argue it sometimes because I just hate complacency with ideas. When people say "You roll a d20 because it's the easiest way to decide an outcome" I just feel compelled to step in and say something. When they say "The holocaust was a terrible thing. I don't see how anyone could support it" I respond with "Yeah, but..." and I get why people might not like that. I do. But I don't want people to judge game systems based on their dice or people because of one thing they once believed in.

Today I spent the better part of an hour arguing that magic that aimed itself at a set value wasn't as logical as magic that assisted your own aim to a set value. Not that it wasn't logical, just that it wasn't as logical, mind you, and I was accused at least once of "entirely missing the point" despite their follow-up explanation of how I didn't get it being a point I'd already made. And sometimes, like today, it's ends up okay with people agreeing on things, or choosing to go their own way with it because of ambiguity, and sometimes an entire group of people remains convinced that you can't teach a horse to react to your split-second commands despite them having no evidence on their side. But no matter which way it ends up I get... upset, more often than not, because it's usually not my mountains of evidence or otherwise that turns the tides. It's someone else saying something I've already said, or something silly like a person going "You know, it turns out I meant something else this whole time." And I just... I took years of debate, philosophy, psychology, and what has it all amounted to?

What am I doing with myself getting wrapped up in these conversations and arguments about things? Even if I'm right, like the horse thing (ask people who train horses), I feel like I'm wrong. Like I've wasted my time. But if I sit back and watch ignorance or misinformation blossom then I'm part of the problem. But am I a worse one by becoming an antagonist for the truth? What if people stop believing me just because it's me who said something?

Some of the players in my games I think are reaching that point. I can be exacting when it comes to rules, and I have preferences and a forceful personality when I want to (and sometimes when I don't want to), and I think they've decided I'm not a good person. That maybe I'm a decent GM, but that I'm not worth talking to, including in discussions, or anything other than just playing with. And that's something, I guess, but it doesn't help my feeling isolated from my own game.

Take another conversation today. Some of my players are having group discussions about how they're going to get around this little IC issue that's come up. Now, I'm terribly against using OOC to fix IC problems, but that's where they jumped because they didn't want it to take time to solve the problem through normal posting. And part of me wants to toss them out on the street for just so blatantly ignoring one of my cardinal pet peeves with gaming, but part of me is just tired, and another part of me doesn't want to be a raging apple about them trying to fix problems their way, even if they've almost completely left me out of the conversations. And when a player approached me about their solutions I kind of... blew up a bit. I told him the issue was dumb and that if they were going to solve IC problems with OOC stuff they might as well have just taken a more direct path instead of getting into secret talks and stressing everyone out over it.

Who does that?

So, I'm isolated, as I said. I feel like I'm isolated from everyone because no matter what the situation or group, I seem to find a way to cut myself off from people. My family all lives far away and I forget to call or write, but they still love me. Or they say they do. And they prove it well-enough whenever I visit, but... but the people I chat with seem to think I'm a flying orange peel because I like to tease and argue. And my players don't think I'm worth including in their conversations about how to solve problems. And I don't even have friends outside of those two groups because... well, no, I have one. I have one friend, and some of his friends don't think I'm the worst person ever, but that doesn't mean we're friends. We don't talk, and we don't hang out, and...

And let's just make a list, huh?

-I use proper spelling and grammar even when I'm in instant messengers, or talking to people, or when I'm texting. I stopped expecting this from other people, but it does make me feel disconnected from everyone who doesn't do it.
-I don't drink. At all. Ever. Not even a little bit. Never have, never will.
-I don't do drugs. No, not even weed. I don't think it's fun or amusing or anything.
-I don't like sports. I pretend to sometimes, but I don't.
-I do like video games, but I don't really like MMOs or MOBAs or traditional Shooters.
-I speak several languages, and don't mind if people speak in a language I don't understand so long as they're patient with me when I fumble through it.
-I don't do religion, despite my entire family being religious (which is as far as I'm taking that one because of forum rules).
-I'm a teacher, but I have weird ideas about teaching.
-I have burn scars covering the most-visible parts of my body.
-I don't wear jeans. I barely wear shirts with collars. I think appearance shouldn't matter 1/10th as much as it does. I do sometimes wear a crushed velvet cloak around town. It's comfy, and functional.
-I like a lot of music, but I judge the music based on the individual song, not the artist, or the artist's life. I like some Justin Beiber songs. I like the Backstreet Boys, and AC/DC, and Nickelback, and Fall Out Boy, and Christina Aguilera (sp?), and TLC, and The Who, and some stuff from the 40's and 50's, and Beethoven. I don't like most rap, r&b, country, and most anything heavier than metal.
-I watch Home Improvement and real estate shows like Love it Or List It, but I don't care about the Real Houswives of Wherever, thought Breaking Bad was okay, and Pushing Daisies is one of the best things that was ever cancelled.
-I can't stand spoilers. Not even little ones. Not even people joking about spoilers. And no, I don't mean car spoilers.
-I'm a real hopeless romantic (and I know it's unrealistic, especially given my paranoia and lack of ability to trust people).
-I act like what people imagine chivalry would be in real life (not always, but often enough that I can say that with a straight face).
-I don't use Facebook. Or Twitter. Or Instagram. Or, or, or...

And just... the list goes on. Honestly, I'm running out of steam (and self-esteem!) so... I dunno. I feel like I'm alone. I feel like I push people away and I don't mean to, but I've been doing this for close to 30 years now and I still feel this way. So... so it's me, right? I'm the common denominator through it all (which isn't actually causation, I know, and I'm looking at it through my own lens, I know, BUT) so does that mean it's me? I feel like it's me, and on days like today I just want to scream until I collapse, so I can wake up somewhere else.

You know what the worst part is? I've been conditioned not to open up like this too. So most people don't know most of this about me and won't unless they read this. Even my family, sitting a few feet away as I type all of this... they don't know.

tl;dr: Anyone else feeling broken lately? I know I am.
ShadoPrism
 member, 1119 posts
 OCGD-Obsessive-Compulsive
 Gamer-Disorder
Mon 4 Sep 2017
at 22:58
I Just Want To Scream
I broke a long time ago.
This is just what is left of me going through the motions and trying to keep what little sanity I have in motion.
OceanLake
 member, 1010 posts
Tue 5 Sep 2017
at 17:02
I Just Want To Scream
A couple of ideas: Make a list of what you'd want different, not internal state4s but observables. By each item, put an action (or refraining from an action) that you're willing to do to move toward that want-different.

Consider reading the Autobiography of Benjamin Franklin.
engine
 member, 412 posts
Tue 5 Sep 2017
at 18:03
I Just Want To Scream
In reply to Tyr Hawk (msg # 984):

Most of how you describe yourself, is very, very similar to how many, many other people would describe themselves. In terms of specific things like physical appearance or clothing choice, you'll find that many, many people with the traits you describe have something noteworthy about their physical appearance or their clothing choices. You're not alone, it's just a matter of finding those people, which the internet has made almost ridiculously easy.

And then you have to cope with those people. That's the trickier part. What that boils down to is letting stuff go, letting people make what you see as mistakes. In my experience, people who feel like they know what they're doing aren't receptive to change until what they think they know fails them, and often not even then. But before that, unless they're asking questions, they aren't all that interested in hearing that they're wrong or that there's another point of view. So, yeah, telling them that they're wrong, or offering another point of view, isn't going to gain you any trust.

And it's about trust. You're looking out for people, but they have no reason to trust that, because often people who correct others or debate what they say are trying to play social status games or control others. If you're not doing that, and I don't think you are, then you need to gain trust from people that that's not what you're doing. This will probably involve holding your peace even when others are wrong, bolstering people when they're right, and noticing when you're pressing your point harder than is socially appropriate and toning it down.

Find a good therapist, someone who won't argue facts with you, but who will get you to focus on the conclusions you draw from how people respond to you and get you to question your assumptions.

Until then, try being wrong. Start with once a day. Let a point go uncontested. Concede something. If you're not sure about something, instead of looking it up, deny yourself the benefit of the doubt and assume you are wrong. See what happens. Consider it an experiment.

Edit: To actually answer your question, yes, I feel broken but not as badly as I did before years of therapy, supported by medication.

This message was last edited by the user at 21:23, Tue 05 Sept.

mickey65
 member, 123 posts
 Long-time PbP player
 Love several systems
Wed 6 Sep 2017
at 02:55
I Just Want To Scream
In reply to Tyr Hawk (msg # 984):

Being hard to get along with is sometimes treated like it's a crime against humanity.

But it's not any kind of crime. It's not even bad in and of itself. It just clashes with the fact that so many strangers are squeezed together into one small space and have to find a way to live together.

And finding ways for strangers to live together is usually assumed to be good in itself, but it's not. It's just a necessity forced on us by the fact that we can't avoid a world in which strangers have to live together. Which I see as a broken and malformed world.

So don't blame yourself for being hard to get along with. It doesn't make you a bad person. It just means that the broken and malformed world is a misfit for YOU, not the other way around.
Tyr Hawk
 member, 321 posts
 You know that one guy?
 Yeah, that's me.
Wed 6 Sep 2017
at 23:07
I Just Want To Scream
Lots of varied and good advice. Thank you, everyone. I don't know yet what I'm going to follow, but it's nice to have input from folks.

I will add though that it's particularly frustrating to me because, in real life, I rarely meet anyone who doesn't like me and my personality. >_> I've been to Australia, across the U.S., London, Paris, and rarely do I encounter someone who I just don't get along with, even though I feel like I don't act differently. I guess I should've specified that the arguments mostly happen online, but the isolation sort of permeates my life.

But, yeah, thanks again.
ShadoPrism
 member, 1122 posts
 OCGD-Obsessive-Compulsive
 Gamer-Disorder
Thu 7 Sep 2017
at 17:52
I Just Want To Scream
In reply to Tyr Hawk (msg # 989):

The difference for online and real life is force of personality. The internet's only personality is the person on their side of the keyboard. Where as in Real Life your own personality and natural charisma get to come in to play.
Tyr Hawk
 member, 322 posts
 You know that one guy?
 Yeah, that's me.
Thu 7 Sep 2017
at 18:13
Re: I Just Want To Scream
ShadoPrism:
The internet's only personality is the person on their side of the keyboard.

THAT... is a really interesting way to think about that. I haven't really considered that before, but it makes sense. Don't know if I agree with it, but it's a really interesting thing to consider. And, I suppose we're getting off the original vent now, so I'll call that the end of it for now. XD
Dara
 member, 374 posts
Wed 13 Sep 2017
at 21:07
Re: I Just Want To Scream
Why is it so hard to find good fuzzy slippers with a rubber sole?  And went I do find one that might work, they don't have it in my size!?!?!?!  AAAAAAUUUUUGGGGGHHHHHHH!



thank you
V_V
 member, 615 posts
 You can call me V, just V
 Life; a journey made once
Wed 13 Sep 2017
at 21:49
Re: I Just Want To Scream
In reply to Dara (msg # 992):

I had the same problem for my good friend and roommate. It seems the soles don't come on nice fuzzy slippers.

I personally wear slippers with a fleece inlining and I've found them quite comfortable. The men's versions are exorbitantly priced, so I buy women's slippers and I'm not ashamed of it. Granted they wear out, but dollar per month I get better use out of the cheaper ones than anything really specialized. I'm hard on foodware though.

Fuzzy slippers tend to have those foam or super thin rubber soles that might as well be wrapping paper.

I actually have the same problem about size too. The double wide for my good friend made the ones I found for her a few years ago the first and last that worked.
SunRuanEr
 member, 56 posts
Sat 16 Sep 2017
at 14:50
This drives me nuts.
Why is it that people join an RP-heavy game on RPoL and then seek to do everything possible to remove their characters from every scene that involves any kind of RP whatsoever? Example:

Group of new characters A, B, and C: Talking, chatting, meeting each other

New character D: Walks right through room (says nothing), exits out to someplace else.

Now, see, doing this once or twice? I totally understand that - sometimes a character is shy, or socially awkward, or insecure. But when literally every. single. post. a character makes is them AVOIDING the scene and other characters entirely...

WHY THE FRUIT ARE THEY PLAYING?

*headdesk*
ShadoPrism
 member, 1125 posts
 OCGD-Obsessive-Compulsive
 Gamer-Disorder
Sat 16 Sep 2017
at 16:56
This drives me nuts.
In reply to SunRuanEr (msg # 994):

Sounds to me like they are not playing but just taking up space.
Some socially insecure types (RL) will play characters that way, waiting for the GM or another player to force them to interact. To much of playing themselves than the characters they want to play I think.
engine
 member, 437 posts
Sat 16 Sep 2017
at 17:14
This drives me nuts.
In reply to SunRuanEr (msg # 994):

What do they say when you ask them about it?
SunRuanEr
 member, 57 posts
Sat 16 Sep 2017
at 19:16
This drives me nuts.
In reply to engine (msg # 996):

I learned a long time ago not to make any OOC comments/questions that could be taken as criticizing another player's play style, even if it's in a role of trying to make sure the other player is having a good time. Too many people react badly to that. That's a GM's job, not mine, for that reason.

So instead I sit and wonder 'Does this person just not like everyone else? Are they hoping to play this like a solo game? Are they going to be unable to check the site for a few days and they're just removing themselves so they don't block things up? Are they bored with the current scene and just putting lame white-text posts in as a passive-aggressive way of saying that to the GM?'

I know it's not really something that should bug me, but I see it ALL THE TIME in multiple games, and it just hit the frustration straw that broke the camel's back this morning.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15439 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Sat 16 Sep 2017
at 19:46
This drives me nuts.
In reply to SunRuanEr (msg # 997):

Or they might really have nothing they want to post openly in the scene, and are just posting meaningless filler so that they can include a private line to the GM about what their character is REALLY doing.
GammaBear
 member, 797 posts
 Gaymer
Sun 24 Sep 2017
at 04:04
I just want to...ARGH!
What the fudge is wrong with people? Why is it so hard to have a good work ethic? Seriously! It doesn't require much effort AT ALL! You leave your house in enough time to show up to work a little early, that way if something happens, you have a buffer. If you're going to be late, call. If you're not going to show up, for fudging sure CALL!!!

Are parents not teaching kids any more that if you're on time, you're late and if you're early, you're on time? There are other people to consider!!!