OceanLake
 member, 1011 posts
Tue 12 Sep 2017
at 19:12
Respect for the Deities
When a deity heals or does a favor, say, healing; it gripes me that the player fails to give thanks or in general, consider the deities in role playing. I feel not doing this misses role playing opportunities and is discourteous.
swordchucks
 member, 1439 posts
Tue 12 Sep 2017
at 19:14
Respect for the Deities
Depends on your game setting.  In many of them, deities are only vaguely aware of their followers pulling on them for minor spells, though they will often pay attention to the big ones.  If it bugs you, just reward them for doing it.  Players tend to respond well to that.
engine
 member, 429 posts
Tue 12 Sep 2017
at 19:27
Re: Respect for the Deities
OceanLake:
When a deity heals or does a favor, say, healing; it gripes me that the player fails to give thanks or in general, consider the deities in role playing. I feel not doing this misses role playing opportunities and is discourteous.

Discourteous to whom? The fictional deities?

Not every roleplaying opportunity is equally worthy to a given player to give voice to, just as not every action is worth describing. It's abstracted, the way many of the moves and countermoves in combat are usually abstracted. You can simply assume that such thanks are given, as part of whatever chant or gestures or other components are part of the invocation of the favor.

Have shared this with the players in question? They're the ones who need to hear it if you want anything to change.
biscuit
 member, 14 posts
Tue 12 Sep 2017
at 19:28
Respect for the Deities
To go along with the above, how active are the deities in your world? Are they directly involved, telling mortals what to do, or are they reclusive entities that grant powers and abilities, but take little interest in the day to day affairs?

When the deities are distant, most players just assume they've thought a simple thanks, if even that. But if the deities are directly involved, then the players would have a much higher level of interaction.
Cloudy
 member, 75 posts
 It's nice to be important
 It's important to be nice
Wed 13 Sep 2017
at 15:00
Respect for the Deities
I've played with Clerics in the past that would conduct prayer services and stuff like that before or after a dungeon crawl, or otherwise mention it during downtime; never as the focus of a scene, just as part of a larger post, same as how some characters make a point of visiting the bar or brothel or something.

Players are welcome to mention their participation - or lack of participation - if they feel like it; sure, good time to add depth to the character, but not a requirement.

Then of course, when people that skip church start holding their wounds out looking for a Cure Light, the Cleric is free to hold forth a collection plate, or otherwise reserve his miracles for the faithful. Jerk move, maybe, but it puts butts in the pews at the next mass.
Hunter
 member, 1384 posts
 Captain Oblivious!
 Lurker
Wed 13 Sep 2017
at 20:23
Respect for the Deities
It really depends.   While for us, science is a "deity"; so by the same token would they have deities.    They'd really be so integrated into their lives and thought that it would actually be more likely that being "un-religious" would require explanation...

Example: For us, the sun moves across the sky because *insert sciency explanation here*.   While for them, the sun moves across the sky because the sun god has a chariot.
V_V
 member, 613 posts
 You can call me V, just V
 Life; a journey made once
Wed 13 Sep 2017
at 21:04
Respect for the Deities
I generally am impressed when players show devotion to an authority in my games. Be it a god or warlord, prince or magus. I certainly don't demand compulsory devotion. You get rewards for following similar ideals, but lip service is not prerequisite nor natural conclusion to worship. Be that a divine or secular devotion. If I player shows outstanding humility, I go above and beyond the "you get spells and a great after-life" and make it a personal experience. A player giving in or out of game praise of a powerful figure is rarely par for course, or status quo. So no, I don't get offended when player don't respect that.

I DO get offended when players bring their preconceptions of powerful figures to the table and refuse any narrative that dictates such and such isn't as they thought. That's what irks me. When players say "Oh, Heironeous demands I kill all evil creatures" maybe in another world, under other GMs. Not in my world. Any such demand implies wide spread philosophy, which assumes how the temple is portrayed and viewed by the massive population of effectively NPCs, or is bold faced stubborn of a character. The same is true of people saying "Oh Corellon demands I hate all drow" Nope, not in the dogma, very low on the list of priorities. Maybe it's canon, but when I say "Not here" respect that. I'm not suddenly saying Pelor is trying to sunburn humans, and then heal them while he holds them in his Herculean grasp, to torture them for eternity. The departure I take, to me, seems nuanced, not drastic.

Omnipotence and compulsory worship have gone out of fashion in the D&D games I've been a part of.
nuric
 member, 2950 posts
 Love D&D,superhero games
 Not very computer savvy
Thu 14 Sep 2017
at 06:37
Respect for the Deities
I'll agree that compulsory bowing and scraping to the gods to thank them can add to the fun and drama of a game, but it can also get tedious.
If it must be done, it should be done in moderationand consistency.

I've also experimented with gods giving their clerics limits, too.
Like perhaps when clerics of The Mistress of Battle heal a combat wound, it leaves a scar, because that's considered a badge of Honor
And her cleric might be unwilling or even unable to heal someone proven to be a coward.
It's like asking a druid to heal you from the burns you got while burning down a forest for fun.

You don't necessarily want religion to dominate the game, since many of us get too much of that in real life, but having the gods expect more from clerics in exchange for magic spells can keep players from treating the party cleric like "The Heal-O-Matic 5000"
FrankenDoom
 member, 182 posts
 It's like that.
 Only better.
Thu 14 Sep 2017
at 17:46
Respect for the Deities
If it bugs you, take the spell away. Send sudden storms on a sunny day. Have the cleric find out his foodstuffs are infested with ants, and his water tastes like brine. Keep it up until someone figures out that maybe he needs to give his god(dess) a big ol' hug, and maybe sacrifice some nice chocolates.

This message was last edited by the user at 17:46, Thu 14 Sept.

orynnfireheart
 member, 102 posts
 Evil will always triumph
 Because good is dumb
Thu 14 Sep 2017
at 18:02
Respect for the Deities
Well, here is a question for you? Do you make the fighter polish his armor or sharpen his weapons? Do you make the wizard feed or groom his familiar? In the same vein, these activities are accepted as necessary for each class to function properly. Same could be said for the cleric. Perhaps he is giving praise and honor to his/her deity, but it is happening in the background away from the main focus of the action/story. Unless said action/story specifically deals with praise and honor to his deity. Then, that is a different cup of tea entirely.
OceanLake
 member, 1012 posts
Fri 15 Sep 2017
at 05:13
Respect for the Deities
I was thinking of a sentence or so, maybe not every time, but enough to keep th edeity functional. And I have included sentences abut cleaning swords, fixing a meal, etc. ... not all the time, enough (I hope) for story continuation purposes so there's some flesh on the bones.
V_V
 member, 616 posts
 You can call me V, just V
 Life; a journey made once
Fri 15 Sep 2017
at 11:12
Respect for the Deities
In reply to OceanLake (msg # 11):


I can actually see where you're coming from. All i can say is there's a thin line. You can't expect it. It is sort of irksome if the fighter is polishing their weapons, and the druid is feeding their animal companion, and bard is giving links to songs. At worst, bring it up. Make it clear. Make it short and sweet, and ask the players just do the same.

IF I WERE YOUR PLAYER
I personally post prayers to my god when I play a priest or druid (unless the druid HAS to worship the damn nature god [which I HATE, as aside...]). I do it as a matter of the character's mood, and temperament. By comparison, most of my characters, fighters, wizards and bards, pray at least every now and then (that is me actually saying/typing something as a player in character to my god). So I'm a religious centric player. I enjoy relationships with NPCs. Gods, to me, are NPCs. Maybe one will show up and give me their time, that would be awesome. I live for that.





THE RANT
Not a lot players are like that. I think that's partly because of the god complex versus beings that are literally god-like.

Gods are clearly real in (the game). When people wave their hands and say certain words, stuff happens. Angels and demons roam. You can't deny the influence of gods (at least the games I play). To many players, and therefore many characters colored by modern culture, they see gods as enablers, not infallible beings. While they may appreciate the help, they're not going to say thanks to someone who doesn't say a word, or even send mail.

That's like a king expecting someone to send him a letter of thanks, even just a scrap with that word, every time they eat because he gave the seeds to sow. Even assuming that a courier would show up to do it on whim, most people wouldn't, not unless out of fear, and that's contrition not worship. At least by my definition.

The only solution I see is to make your gods give messages, and meet the cleric half way. Persuade your clerics to appreciate the god, or slowly sap spell down, but give them the knowledge of that reason. Don't be vague.

If I loan you money and pick you up to take you to work; and you never say thanks? I'm not going to egg you house, but I'm slowly doing less favors for you until I spend my time and gift my service elsewhere. When you call to ask for it, I'll let you know "Hey, man no offense, you seem ungrateful. Not this time. Call me up to chat sometime, when you don't need something. Let me know how you're doing. Don't use me. They can take that heart, or be jerk. I'm disappointed, but the ball's in their court.


Spoiler for what NOT to do: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)

The solution is NOT having gods punish the characters with random acts of anger. Which trust me, does NOT work. You're 40 times more likely to need a new player with that attitude, or at the very least have less than happy player. Negative reinforcement rarely works when there's disparity in power and authority. Look around the modern world. *shrugs*


NowhereMan
 member, 165 posts
Fri 15 Sep 2017
at 12:14
Respect for the Deities
At least in D&D and its derivatives, I've always viewed a divine spell's verbal components to be a prayer, hymn, or verse that is somehow tied to whatever spell it is they're performing. The flavor of having a player recite said prayer is always nice, but I wouldn't expect it any more than I'd expect the party wizard to recite their arcane spellbabble. Here's what I mean:

Cure Light Wounds: "And St. Cuthbert lay hands upon the warriors wounds and bid them gone."

Shield of Faith: "Great Pelor, I ask for the light of your protection as I stand against thine enemies."

This message was lightly edited by the user at 12:15, Fri 15 Sept.

V_V
 member, 617 posts
 You can call me V, just V
 Life; a journey made once
Fri 15 Sep 2017
at 13:41
Respect for the Deities
In reply to NowhereMan (msg # 13):

Agreed. I won't dominate the thread with more. +1
PCO.Spvnky
 member, 334 posts
Fri 15 Sep 2017
at 18:12
Respect for the Deities
My PnP gm fixed this by making up one deity for all religions (he calls it the pristine) that encompasses all faiths and belief systems.  The pristine is also a mindless pool of divine favor that has no demands.  :)