Varsovian
 member, 1393 posts
Tue 24 Oct 2017
at 20:55
The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
I've seen The Dark Eye (5E, to be exact) mentioned in the forums. I've been wondering: is this a good game? Is it any way different than what can be done with Pathfinder, Conan etc. - or is it a typical fantasy world?

Also, do you guys know anything about 7th Sea 2E? Is it about fantasy pirates, or something like that?

This message was last edited by the user at 19:57, Wed 25 Oct.

galaxyyouth76
 member, 1 post
Wed 25 Oct 2017
at 21:59
The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
In reply to Varsovian (msg # 1):

Hi!
horus
 member, 304 posts
 Wayfarer of the
 Western Wastes
Wed 25 Oct 2017
at 23:17
The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
In reply to Varsovian (msg # 1):

7th Sea is a detailed setting about an alternate Earth circa the late 1600s.  Western European swashbuckling fantasy with an "Ancients" element, mostly, until one uses the Khitai expansion to include Cathay (China), Fuso (Japan) and other points eastward.

2E is, I believe, the latest available edition.

Full Disclosure:  I presently play in a 7th Sea game, but it uses an earlier edition.  It is one of the richer and more detailed settings in which I've played.

Das Schwarze Auge ist mir unbekannt. (The Black Eye is unknown to me.  "The Dark Eye" would be more like "Das Dunkel Auge".)
dybbuk67
 member, 51 posts
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 02:06
The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
Yes, one of the major themes of 7th Sea 2E is piracy, but it is more a game of swashbuckling.  2nd ed is very collaborative storytelling in style; 11st ed is very cinematic combat.  There were changes in the setting to 2nd ed as well; some of the sorceries changed, swordplay works quite differently.

Both versions have their pluses and minuses.  I have to admit, I would love to see somebody port the 2e changes into 1st ed rules.
azzuri
 member, 222 posts
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 03:41
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
dybbuk67:
I have to admit, I would love to see somebody port the 2e changes into 1st ed rules.

As both systems are quite different, what do you mean?
Shei-kun
 member, 833 posts
 A Giant Shei draws near!
 Fight-Magic-Item-Flee
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 04:30
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
The systems are quite different.  It's like the shift from 2E to 3E for AD&D.  About the only similarities are the core stats and the fact that it's almost entirely d10 based.
Varsovian
 member, 1394 posts
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 05:17
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
Thanks! I have a few more questions about 7th Sea, then:

1. What does "collaborative storytelling" mean, exactly?
2. What does swashbuckling entail, aside from piracy? I have honestly no idea...
3. Is there magic in this game and, if so, how does it work, exactly?
4. Who are the Ancients?

As for The Dark Eye / Das Schwarze Auge, it's a German game fantasy game - a well-known one, I'm told. So I'd like to learn more...
Shei-kun
 member, 834 posts
 A Giant Shei draws near!
 Fight-Magic-Item-Flee
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 05:36
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
Magic does exist.  It doesn't work in any particular way that can be explained without reading the rulebooks.

If you've ever seen Disney's The Three Musketeers, or The Man In the Iron Mask, or ANYTHING Zorro, that's what the game goes for.  It emphasizes drama - you even get mechanical benefits for being properly dramatic in your actions.

For the rest, I highly recommend reading the game books themselves.
dybbuk67
 member, 52 posts
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 12:21
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E

This message was deleted by the user at 12:21, Thu 26 Oct.

dybbuk67
 member, 53 posts
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 12:21
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
In reply to azzuri (msg # 5):

That should have read "2e changes in setting to 1st ed rules."
horus
 member, 305 posts
 Wayfarer of the
 Western Wastes
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 13:13
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
Varsovian:
Thanks! I have a few more questions about 7th Sea, then:

1. What does "collaborative storytelling" mean, exactly?


It's a notion in gaming where the GM surrenders some control over the universe to the players, and they, together, tell a story.  At least that's my understanding of it.
quote:
2. What does swashbuckling entail, aside from piracy? I have honestly no idea...

Swashing one's buckle goes to the dramatic element mentioned earlier. ;-) Swashbucklers collectively referred to pirates, buccaneers, corsairs, sailors, and other nautical type of an heroic bent.  Wikipedia says they are an "heroic archetype", and that's fair to say.

quote:
3. Is there magic in this game and, if so, how does it work, exactly?


Magic does exist, as an exclusive province of the Nobility.

quote:
4. Who are the Ancients?


A race (or more than one race) of beings who predated humanity as it currently exists on Terra
(the world of 7th Sea).  They were possessed of technologies which were almost indistinguishable from magic.  These artifacts are sought after by secret societies, the Nobility, and anyone who covets their potential power.

This message was last edited by the user at 13:22, Thu 26 Oct.

dybbuk67
 member, 54 posts
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 13:37
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
I would open that definition of swashbuckling to include Musketeers, highwaymen, and a few other sorts.  Swashbuckling has to do more with derring-do and panache than it does with the sea.
MalaeDezeld
 member, 22 posts
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 15:49
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
I want to point out that there is a free version of the 7th Sea rules and settings available: http://johnwickpresents.com/7th-sea-basic-rules/

Varsovian:
3. Is there magic in this game and, if so, how does it work, exactly?

There is six flavors of magic! They are thematically very different both in what they do and who learn them.

Mechanically, you learn new magical effects each time you take the Sorcery Advantage. Then in game, most effects cost a Hero Point (a limited resource per session) to activate.
Varsovian
 member, 1395 posts
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 18:38
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
Oooh, free quickstart rules! Now that's useful :)))

Question: what can you do in this game? What stories can you tell?
Shei-kun
 member, 835 posts
 A Giant Shei draws near!
 Fight-Magic-Item-Flee
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 18:56
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
Varsovian:
Oooh, free quickstart rules! Now that's useful :)))

Question: what can you do in this game? What stories can you tell?

Honestly?  You can do anything you want and tell whatever stories you feel like telling, at least within the setting.
Varsovian
 member, 1396 posts
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 19:29
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
Well, that's true in theory, but each game and setting is usually predisposed toward some kind of stories. For example, would 7th Sea be the best setting to do a story of abject cosmic horror and madness? Judging by the descriptions, I suppose not...

For example: who are the heroes of the game? Are they ordinary folks trying to survive and (maybe) get ahead, like the characters from WFRP? Or maybe they are incredible, colourful folks saving the world all the time?

Also, what is the game's mood? For example: it has pirates. Are these pirates on the fun, cinematic side, like in Pirates of the Caribbean movies? Or on the gritty, realistic side, like in the Black Sails show?
Cygnia
 member, 279 posts
 Amoral Paladin
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 20:09
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
It all depends on how the GM wants to take it, mood-wise.
Varsovian
 member, 1397 posts
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 20:39
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
Okay then, what would *you* guys do with that game? Share some ideas, please...
horus
 member, 306 posts
 Wayfarer of the
 Western Wastes
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 21:12
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
From where I sit, as a player in a game using Edition 1.5(?) rules, the setting is very rich, and has as many opportunities for intrigue, skullduggery, and the like as it does for derring-do, valor, chivalry, honor, and thrillin' heroics.

Characters in 7th Sea tend to be larger than life types who eat danger for breakfast, tug on the tiger's tail, and laugh in the face of calamity.  A delightful part of character creation, at least for me, was The Game of Twenty Questions.  It really helps the player develop a detailed character concept without too much pain.

Be ready to read if you decide to get into it:  In addition to the core books there are sourcebooks on the various regions of Terra, the various secret societies, the Syrneth, other Ancient races, and other lore.  It's a lot to take in all at once, and there's a lot of web support, too.  People who love this game tend to really love it, and will work their hineys off to develop material and playing aids for it.

It could be used to field an Edo-period Japanese, Chinese, or Korean milieu with the Khitai expansions available.  It could as easily be used to field a more European setting, or a more Arab Fantasy setting if the sourcebooks for The Crescent are available.

What is it you're wanting to do again?

This message was last edited by the user at 21:19, Thu 26 Oct.

horus
 member, 307 posts
 Wayfarer of the
 Western Wastes
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 21:17
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
dybbuk67:
I would open that definition of swashbuckling to include Musketeers, highwaymen, and a few other sorts.  Swashbuckling has to do more with derring-do and panache than it does with the sea.


That's true enough.  Although most folk associate the swashing of buckles with nautical types, it's not like they have a monopoly on it.  Anyone in an outrageous frilly shirt, brocade jacket, high boots, and wearing a tricorn hat with a plume in it, and a wide belt and buckle (of course) can swash right along with the best of 'em.
Varsovian
 member, 1398 posts
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 21:29
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
Horus, I'm not sure I know what I want to do with this game, if anything :) It just caught my attention and I'm trying to work out if its something I could GM or play...

You mention: intrigue and thrilling heroics. What kind of intrigue? What kind of heroics?

BTW. Are there fantasy monsters in this game? If so, are they a common thing - or is it a low fantasy kind of world?
horus
 member, 309 posts
 Wayfarer of the
 Western Wastes
Thu 26 Oct 2017
at 23:26
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
Varsovian:
Horus, I'm not sure I know what I want to do with this game, if anything :) It just caught my attention and I'm trying to work out if its something I could GM or play...


7th Sea is really about the setting.  If you're looking to do something in that setting, you're golden.  If not, and you want to adapt the mechanics of 7th Sea to another setting, get ready for a ton of reading, head-scratching, ciphering, and just generally wondering, "Whiskey, Tango, Foxtrot, Over?"

That may not be worth your while, I don't know.  The quick start mentioned previously could probably help you decide all that before you get in too deep.

quote:
You mention: intrigue and thrilling heroics. What kind of intrigue? What kind of heroics?


Again, the setting of 7th Sea is all about larger than life.  Save the damsel in distress, fight a duel for your honor or to avenge a family member's murder, go on a mission for Queen and Country to uncover ancient relics of unimaginable power, all the while keeping them from other seekers such as yourself.  Staying out of the clutches of the Inquisition (you can't Torquemada anything, I tell ya!).  All these and more are possible.

quote:
BTW. Are there fantasy monsters in this game? If so, are they a common thing - or is it a low fantasy kind of world?


I haven't encountered any yet.  Lord help us if we ever run up on a Syrneth that's still living.  That might get interesting.

I get the real sense that mankind's inhumanity to mankind is where the true evil lies, but I might be wrong.  The game is yet young.

As for high and low fantasy, I guess that would depend on what you consider high and low.  It doesn't have elves and nasty hobbitses, goblins, ghouls, and dragons (that I know of), so it might be considered Low Fantasy/High Adventure.

This message was last edited by the user at 23:57, Thu 26 Oct.

Cygnia
 member, 280 posts
 Amoral Paladin
Fri 27 Oct 2017
at 00:06
Re: The Dark Eye (Das Schwarze Auge) and 7th Sea 2E
I fully admit, I prefer 1st ed 7th Sea to 2nd.  1st ed. felt like you were on the Hero's Journey whereas 2nd ed feels like you've already done it.  I can't adapt a majority of my 1st ed characters to 2nd ed without feeling like something has been lost.

And I fully admit, that's just me.  There are certain aspects of 2nd ed that I appreciate (like a respectful Poland equivalent), but it's not the game for me.

I run a tabletop 1st ed game at home and I can count the number of inhuman monster threats I've thrown at my group on one hand.  But again, that's been my choice as a GM.  If you GM, you may choose otherwise.