Andhaira
 member, 504 posts
Sat 10 Mar 2018
at 18:17
Pathfinder 2e is coming
So, Pathfinder 2e was announced a few days ago by Paizo. Playtest in free pdf form and paid for hardcovers) to be available in August 2018, with a final version set for August 2019.

I won't link directly but Paizo's website has a lot of details, including nifty bits that have come out.

What are the Rpol community's thoughts on this?
ricosuave
 member, 138 posts
Sat 10 Mar 2018
at 18:48
Pathfinder 2e is coming
From what minor details Paizo has released.

It feels eerily similar to the same direction Wizards of the Coast went with 5th edition.

I'll hold my breathe until it is released as a final project. Heres to hoping they )Paizo) listens to their playtesters and do less of the room of mirrors/echo chamber they have been doing previously.

I can say I doubt their whole 'better balance between casters and things not with spells' doubt it a great deal.
swordchucks
 member, 1471 posts
Sat 10 Mar 2018
at 19:22
Pathfinder 2e is coming
A lot of the changes that have showed up in the playtest podcasts seem like Unchained rules, which is probably fine. The only thing I've heard that is a hard no for me is the way the current treatment of skills. Hopefully, that will be reconsidered before long.
Samus Aran
 member, 388 posts
 Author, game designer
 Part-time Metroid fighter
Sat 10 Mar 2018
at 23:23
Pathfinder 2e is coming
I'm hoping for most of all the caster/martial class parity to be much better. The rest is less necessary. The idea that monsters are easier to design, and thus also encounters are easier to plan, is a big one. If they do that right, I'll definitely be giving this one a go.
DarkLightHitomi
 member, 1306 posts
Sun 11 Mar 2018
at 02:21
Pathfinder 2e is coming
I'm doubtful.

They seem to be of the mind that flavor and mechanics should be tightly intertwined, and that makes mechanics less flexible.

Also, the faq states that low level spells will be less useful at higher levels which is a bad sign in my opinion. You should not ever make mechanics and options that the player has to not only replace, but also spend time picking and choosing and yet not using.

Frankly, the only good way I've ever seen to balance mages and non-mages is to balance magic in such a way that the mage can use it every round and still not outshine the non-mages. And I doubt they'll be doing that given what I mentioned in the above paragraph.
Varsovian
 member, 1435 posts
Sun 11 Mar 2018
at 22:48
Pathfinder 2e is coming
Does this new edition mean that all my Pathfinder books will now become useless? :(
Samus Aran
 member, 389 posts
 Author, game designer
 Part-time Metroid fighter
Sun 11 Mar 2018
at 23:21
Pathfinder 2e is coming
Why on Earth would it? Pathfinder Edition Police aren't going to come to your house and erase all the text in your books. And for Pathfinder 1E there is such a glut of material that no reasonable group could ever possibly use it all without years and years of full-time hours gaming. You still have your books, they're still plenty usable, and no one says you ever have to move on.

For the rest of us, this looks quite promising as far as actually getting me to play Pathfinder. And it looks a lot more like what I want out of a D&D experience.
DarkLightHitomi
 member, 1307 posts
Sun 11 Mar 2018
at 23:44
Pathfinder 2e is coming
Paizo has also said that they will continue to sell 1e material as long as it continues to actually sell.

Also, as you can see with a quick search, wtc might be on dnd 5, but 3.x is still hanging around quite strongly. I see no reason for pathfinder to be any different.
Carakav
 member, 635 posts
 Sure-footed paragon
 of forthright dude.
Mon 12 Mar 2018
at 15:59
Pathfinder 2e is coming
Cautiously optimistic.

However, as someone who's been running a Starfinder game for the last few months here, I'm more doubtful than I would have otherwise been. Starfinder doesn't hit the right notes for me, so I'm skeptical of Paizo's ability to craft a new system.

I don't know... we'll see.
Varsovian
 member, 1436 posts
Mon 12 Mar 2018
at 21:39
Re: Pathfinder 2e is coming
Samus Aran:
Why on Earth would it? Pathfinder Edition Police aren't going to come to your house and erase all the text in your books.


You sure they aren't going to do this..? :(

Seriously speaking: I admit I've heard the same a few years ago, back when Green Ronin introduced Mutants & Masterminds 2E. People were telling me: "No worries, you don't have to switch! You can still play MnM 2E!". But then, it turned out, nobody else but me wanted to play it...

Also, when Onyx Path introduced Chronicles of Darkness (basically, NWoD 2E), it kind of killed my interest in the whole line. The setting and the games became weird after that...

Overall, I don't trust edition changes. They tend to break games :(
Samus Aran
 member, 390 posts
 Author, game designer
 Part-time Metroid fighter
Mon 12 Mar 2018
at 23:18
Re: Pathfinder 2e is coming
Well, what do you expect companies to do? Never release a new edition of something? We're living in an age where you can legit buy 1E D&D books in PDF and hardcover. Never has there been a time where older gaming materials are more readily available. In general, with a game that has a strong following, it's not going to be the new edition that kills it. How many Palladium fans cling to their bloated beast of a system despite the rules not having changed in 20 years? How many people still run 3.x/PF after all these years?

If those people were going to give up on the game, that was going to happen anyway. If the edition is considered overwhelmingly superior (like M&M 2E generally is over its predecessor), yes, more people will flock to it, but anyone actually dedicated to the game will stay. Otherwise, you would have lost those people anyway.

As an aside, too, it's good that Onyx killed your interest in Chronicles of Darkness. They're a terrible company who do some extremely shady things, and word really needs to get around about how they mistreat their freelancers, artists, even game devs. The fewer people supporting them, the better!

This message was last edited by the user at 00:33, Tue 13 Mar.

Kioma
 member, 34 posts
Mon 12 Mar 2018
at 23:45
Re: Pathfinder 2e is coming
Samus Aran:
As an aside, too, it's good that Onyx killed your interest in Chronicles of Darkness. They're a terrible company who do some extremely shady things, and word really needs to get around about how they mistreat their freelancers, artists, even game devs. The fewer people supporting them, the better!

I admit considerable curiosity at this claim, though not a great deal of surprise...

Regarding new editions in general, this is how games stay alive.  Evolve or die, it's the truth of games and species alike.  Had D&D never progressed from 1st Ed, they'd have died a long time ago.  New editions change games, that's true, and indeed the point.  Does it break them?  That depends on the developers and the perspectives of the consumers.  Very subjective.

Regarding Pathfinder 2E in particular, well, I don't like Pathfinder much as it stands.  I feel it has too much bloat, and there's a reason why people nicknamed it Mathfinder.  And sure, lots of players like that.  I admit I really like the setting.  The mechanics?  Not so much.  If it moves to a form more similar to D&D 5E (which is, coincidentally, the only edition of D&D that I find particularly playable), then I don't, personally, see that as a bad thing.  Some people will, though.  That's true for a new edition of anything - there are people who like the change and people who don't.
NowhereMan
 member, 180 posts
Tue 13 Mar 2018
at 01:00
Re: Pathfinder 2e is coming
Samus Aran:
The fewer people supporting them, the better!


I have similar feelings about FATE, for different, but related, reasons.

As for Pathfinder 2E, I was pretty solidly turned off by Starfinder, so if the changes are similar, it'll be a no-go for me. That, and the fact that my home group plays Pathfinder specifically because they had no interest in system-migrating from 3.5, so anything that makes 3.X supplements incompatible is going to completely write it off for us as our go-to d20 system.
Carakav
 member, 636 posts
 Sure-footed paragon
 of forthright dude.
Tue 13 Mar 2018
at 14:20
Re: Pathfinder 2e is coming
In reply to Kioma (msg # 12):

I don't even know that it's about people liking or not liking change, though that's certainly a part of it.

Pathfinder appeals to a specific audience. If you make Pathfinder 2e more like DnD 5e, then you'd be effectively trying to get buy-in from a different audience than the one Paizo has been courting for years. I'm not saying it's an impossible task, but it's a very fine thread between expanding your appeal, and alienating your base.
GammaBear
 member, 815 posts
 Gaymer
Tue 13 Mar 2018
at 14:27
Re: Pathfinder 2e is coming
I'm going to have to wait to see how much changes. I'm not so much interested in the mechanical changes as I am in the business changes. If they continue to pump out products that will drown the system in bloat, then I'm not going to even bother.
Kioma
 member, 35 posts
Tue 13 Mar 2018
at 20:26
Re: Pathfinder 2e is coming
In reply to Carakav (msg # 14):

Oh, absolutely.  Should they actually make it more like D&D 5e, some will hate it, some will love it.  They'll get some of the D&D 5e crowd and lose some of the hardcore Pathfinder 1e crowd.  Which wins out is a question we won't see the answer to until it finally happens, of course, but the same happens with every edition of every game.  Making changes to something that people get so invested in always risks alienating the player base, even if only because (depending on how it's handled) the hundreds or even thousands of dollars worth of RP material they've bought may very well be defunct.

This is why I like it the best when game developers implement either a conversion system or a workable form of backward compatibility, so people can keep using their old, well-loved books with the newer setting, and replace them only when they're comfortable and, in many cases, fiscally capable.  Of course, that kind of backward compatibility can be a lot easier said than done.