NowhereMan
 member, 272 posts
Thu 7 Feb 2019
at 09:54
Modern Wargames
I'm not much of an actual wargames dude, so I'm looking for some decent recommendations for modern-era wargames, specifically focusing on small unit armored combat, as I'm interested in seeing how the rules represent a single armored vehicle, tracking hits to a vehicle, ammunition, individual vulnerabilities, and the like.

While not really "wargames", Twilight 2000 and The Morrow Project both come to mind with how they handle their vehicles.
evileeyore
 member, 145 posts
 GURPS GM and Player
Thu 7 Feb 2019
at 18:25
Modern Wargames
GURPS handles modern war style games fine... but it really doesn't have a deep list of vehicles for 4e.  3e does, and it has the much maligned/praised Vehicle book (design rules for building vehicles with GURPS stats).
horus
 member, 650 posts
 Wayfarer of the
 Western Wastes
Sun 10 Feb 2019
at 01:56
Modern Wargames
Hmm... the actual wargames industry has taken a beating in recent years.  Avalon Hill and SPI are both either gone or shadows of their former selves.

(Note:  SPI is Simulations Publications, Inc., publishers of several wargames and the magazine Strategy & Tactics, to which I was a subscriber back in the day.)

For modern era armored warfare, one my favorites was Red Star/White Star by SPI.  It's hard to find anymore, but had a set of well thought out stats and rules for operational scale combat circa 1978, so all you'd need to do would be to stat up any more recent units you'd want to use.

Seems like it might still be available reasonbly priced.  Polices prohibit me saying more than "consult your favorite search engine".
donsr
 member, 1513 posts
Sun 10 Feb 2019
at 02:22
Modern Wargames
if you can find them on Amazon or  Ebay.. get Avolon hill games... they have  bioth tactical games .. each unbit  is one( plane tank..even soldiers)

 my favs  are Woodships and Iron men..  ship  combat in the age of sail....Torbrok.. Tank  battle s   with  al manner of Units.. each counter  is a tank.. with charts that make  combat  a simulation, rather then a Game.

 Richtofen's war ( I just bought another one last eyar)..plane to plane combat with  things  sent up for a Campaign  as it was in WW1

 RW is my fave, as planes   tunr , dive and climb  according to specs ( just as  Tanks  in  Torbruk)

 I have starship Troopers, based oin the book.. it also is  Unit Tactical as well.

 they have other games that are   Unit  based, I never liked that.

 its sad the company is gone.. when I was searching for a 'new ' RW  I say some folks  selling 'Lots"  of  4 or 5 or 6 games...

 SPI was  like the  'little brother' to Avalon  hill..i have someof thier games  to.. 'Frigate' is their  type of  Woodenship and Iron men
NowhereMan
 member, 274 posts
Sun 10 Feb 2019
at 09:54
Modern Wargames
@evileeyore: I have the GURPS books in question, but they don't get deep enough for my purposes.

@horus: Red Star/White Star will be going on the list of things to look into. I'm not overly troubled with not having modern units, so long as the general ideas are in place. Since (according to the ancient histories) tanks and automotives existed in the 1970s, I should be able to extrapolate from there. The issue would be with older-era games that don't have anything for me use as a base reference.

@donsr: I think my SO's dad has Wooden Ships and Iron Men. I might have to take a look next time we're over there. Richtofen's War is one I wasn't aware of, so I'll have to check it out. Tobruk has stellar reviews, so that's going on the list as well. I think I have a copy of Starship Troopers lying around, but don't think I've ever given it a solid look.
donsr
 member, 1514 posts
Sun 10 Feb 2019
at 14:22
Modern Wargames
Nowereman… my broither  and I started  with Blitzkrieg , I never liked the  'division' counters

 we playe  Metagaming's  Melle and Wizard  that was tactical ( used a Hex board) and they developed it into  a advanced Version..i sent them some stuff, but the folders  before   anything was accepte...as a sidebar... Steve JAckson  is  bringing it back to life.. I joined in the kickstart, it will be arriving sometime in MArch.

 Avalon Hill also  as   'Submarine"..its  tactical..each  counter is a ship.. some of the  'named  ships'..i liked it because my Dad was in the NAvy WWII and they had Fletcher  class destroyers  in it.

 it  even has a  way to play Solo if you want to be  the wolf pack, the Convoy moves  randomly . like they  did  during the war

its a shame the folded, I could only imagine the games they would have turned out.

 Iobruk.. the   attack charts  are crazy as they define  facing, tank type, weapon type...you can even recreate  the   'pill boxes  that Tigers  use to use   by being in defilade  with only thier  turret, you can call in 'offboard ' artillery..and  they have  dive bombers in the mix..really great game.
Gaffer
 member, 1539 posts
 Ocoee FL
 40 yrs of RPGs
Mon 11 Feb 2019
at 01:02
Modern Wargames
I played many a great game of Red Star/White Star back in the day. It sort of grew out of Avalon Hill's Panzerblitz, a squad/vehicle game mostly representing the Russian Front in WWII.
Eur512
 member, 790 posts
Mon 11 Feb 2019
at 02:28
Modern Wargames
"Small unit armored combat"

If you are willing to invest the time and some money (and room for the table!), there is a whole hobby world of miniature wargaming out there.

For starters, google up GHQ (a major manufacturer) and Fistful of Tows 3  (excellent detailed but playable rules) and/or pm me for info, I can direct you to the facebook community and other places.

This message was last edited by the user at 02:29, Mon 11 Feb.

Eduardo
 member, 61 posts
Mon 11 Feb 2019
at 10:33
Modern Wargames

This message was deleted by a moderator, as it was against the ToU, at 12:47, Mon 11 Feb.

NowhereMan
 member, 275 posts
Mon 11 Feb 2019
at 14:41
Modern Wargames
The monster that started this whole search was BattleTech. What I'm wanting to find is a handful of other games that allow for the following general idea, in this case we'll go with a mech:


Player's mech is fired upon by the enemy.

A roll, based on facing, is made to determine where the mech is hit.

The attack hits the mech's left leg and penetrates the armor, causing damage to the mech's systems.

Another roll is made, determining that the mech's left-side stabilizers were hit, causing the mech to be slower-moving and a chance for it to fall any time it moves.
</hr>
In a different scenario, you could replace the mech with a tank, APC, a starship, or a plane. The specific time period or vehicle doesn't particularly matter, as I'm more interested in seeing how each system handles attacking and damaging vehicles, including what that damage does. What I don't want is "Your tank gets hit and takes 10 points of damage. You have 12 hit points remaining."
donsr
 member, 1518 posts
Mon 11 Feb 2019
at 14:56
Modern Wargames
  Tobruk rules and  attack chart ( AH is  renowned  for its  charts!)

  If you have a M3Sturat,  Firing at a Panzer.. and the Panser   is Facing you?  its  going to be a lot  Differant  then that Same Panzer  Firing  at a Sherman, from the side?

  But... if you can  hit  from the rear on a Tiger, you'll get better  results!

 to top the damage or   deflection of a shot... there are always  Crits..( my Brother hated Crits.. I shot down a lot of His  Aircraft in RW  by getting " pilot killed"

  Track Damage  Crippled the tank, You can lose  a  Gun.. you can lose  crew  w ect ect.

  They will always be  the best  Tactical War Gae Company ever..  I was a bit younger then my brother,  so when he wopuld stop at hoe, we had   a couple games set up  to 'continue our moves)..or, we would leave notes  showing  where   we were and How  we moved.

 Miniature war GAnmers have something to this effect.. I had a Giy on  my Mail route that would order figs and terrian all the time... But?.. that's  a bot much for me.. Give me a box  and I can go anywhere and  only need a small table.
NowhereMan
 member, 276 posts
Mon 11 Feb 2019
at 15:15
Modern Wargames
Yeah, I have some experience with miniature wargame tables... But not the budget to actually get into them. A shame, really.

Tobruk looks really good. I'll be headed over to the SO's parents' this Wednesday, so I'll have to ask her dad what he has lying around. I know he's a big AH fan.

As part of my group's once-a-month random game, a buddy of mine brought the old 1985 BattleTech board game, and it was a blast. Got me wanting to tinker with a homebrew system, but I wanted some more examples, preferably ones with lots of detail. And thus, here we are.
donsr
 member, 1519 posts
Mon 11 Feb 2019
at 16:09
Modern Wargames
well..if you like detail..Avaoln Hills tactical games Have it...

examples … RW.. various  Gun types  have  differant rangers  and effect..if you play 'advanced  rules' you have to add Deflection  shot s ,  for  wind  and turing..

 Inline  engies  act differently then  Rotary  and the  turn  coust..Dive and Climb..reflect this



 Tobruk is massively  detailed, so..yeah?  you roll the ddice..but  distant..armor.. facing..weapon type  and terrain all factor in..and?  it has a 'programmed' campaign to start with.. so you can elarn the game while playing.. we started  out   one on one .. then three on three... when we stopped playign   we had armor all over the board.. troops..  Dive bommbers  and    off board  artillery..none of my friends  could handle the detail.. they just wanted to blow  tanks up... my brother in I were chess players  before  we got into gaming, so..evryhting that added to 'realism and tactics' was great!
Loughcrew
 member, 193 posts
 The broken clock
 is a comfort...
Wed 13 Feb 2019
at 19:55
Modern Wargames
If you love detail, there’s always Advanced Squad Leader.
NowhereMan
 member, 278 posts
Wed 13 Feb 2019
at 20:22
Modern Wargames
Oh, good point. I'd noticed there were a few modern rules supplements floating around for ASL.  Time to go digging.
icosahedron152
 member, 930 posts
Thu 14 Feb 2019
at 11:15
Modern Wargames
You could take a look at Striker, from the Traveller stable.

The rules enabled you to build vehicles from a WW1 motorcycle up to a flying grav-tank with energy weapons, and incorporated detailed combat rules for vehicles and squad-level operations...

I believe it's still available from the original creators, almost 40 years on. :)
NowhereMan
 member, 279 posts
Thu 14 Feb 2019
at 12:05
Modern Wargames
In the ongoing saga, some of the stuff from FGU seems promising.

I'll take a look at Striker, I've got a sizable Traveller collection.
GreyGriffin
 member, 264 posts
 Portal Expat
 Game System Polyglot
Thu 14 Feb 2019
at 16:21
Re: Modern Wargames
NowhereMan:
The monster that started this whole search was BattleTech. What I'm wanting to find is a handful of other games that allow for the following general idea, in this case we'll go with a mech:


Player's mech is fired upon by the enemy.

A roll, based on facing, is made to determine where the mech is hit.

The attack hits the mech's left leg and penetrates the armor, causing damage to the mech's systems.

Another roll is made, determining that the mech's left-side stabilizers were hit, causing the mech to be slower-moving and a chance for it to fall any time it moves.
</hr>
In a different scenario, you could replace the mech with a tank, APC, a starship, or a plane.


Battletech does have full systems for all kinds of combat.

Battletech itself covers infantry, powersuits, vehicles (wheeled, tracked, hover, WiGE), aircraft (VTOL, conventional, aerospace), shuttles, dropships, and system craft, and and all the way up to multi-million ton capital ships.

Some of them work better than others.

Detailed vehicular combat up to and including some kind of systems degradation is something I've been looking for as well to layer into an RPG, but it's a pretty rare bird.
NowhereMan
 member, 280 posts
Thu 14 Feb 2019
at 18:07
Re: Modern Wargames
quote:
Detailed vehicular combat up to and including some kind of systems degradation is something I've been looking for as well to layer into an RPG, but it's a pretty rare bird.


That's why I've determined I'm going to make my own. This search is so I have a basis to start with.
donsr
 member, 1520 posts
Thu 14 Feb 2019
at 18:32
Re: Modern Wargames
nothing  wrong  with making your own..my best  gae is  honebrewed ..semi-freeform.
paganone
 member, 97 posts
Sun 17 Feb 2019
at 18:09
Re: Modern Wargames

This message was deleted by a moderator, as it was against the forum rules, at 18:43, Sun 17 Feb.

Aslanii76
 member, 175 posts
Sat 9 Mar 2019
at 20:53
Re: Modern Wargames
Last Battles, the tactical Twilight 2000 semi-mass combat wargame. Fairly straight forward bare-bones rules, easily transferred over to mini's. Vehicle components are affected by hits, thus some paperwork tracking. As far as I know, it is not available in PDF form, so you would have to track it down. There is a design it yourself using the information from the 1st edition T 2000 rules and data books. Infantry combat is also very basic, you could incorporate some SL/ASL concepts such as Pinning, etc.