Guys this is getting out of hand and I thinkI speak for woof on this:

woof runs this site cause he loves playing rpg's full stop.

John and a few others decided to set up a Friends network to make donations to help run the server or whatever. woof didn't ask for this to happen, a few of the users just did it off their own back so there is no inner circle. forpol has no specific baring or authority on what happens to this site... only woof has.

I think people are looking too deep into this.

shouldn't you be at the pub on a friday night, sweets? ;)

Maybe so, but didn't woof say that should he loose interest, he'll give over to the FoRPoL?  That eventually puts those in this Inner Circle that means so little in a high spot of importance.

I also remind you all that FoRPoL was made for three reasons:

"We support RPoL in three  ways ...

  1 We raise funds, through donations, to  help pay the running costs of the RPoL website.  You  don't  have to  donate to play at RPoL, it is a free site - and we  want to  keep it that way.

  2 We  provide supporting services to RPoL.  At the moment,  the image server is hosted on web space that belongs to one of our members.  We also vet and upload the images.

  3 We help with other things that RPoL needs.  We  have been involved in writing FAQs, designing and testing.  Later,  we  will look at finding other volunteers to help with RPoL projects. "

Collecting money is one-third of our function.

Collecting  money is our  primary  function, certainly at the monment.

However - this is  really  getting out of  hand.  FoRPoL in the  sense discussed here is at the moment Me, BBR, Doll and Shan  ...  simple as that :)

1) There's Friends of RPOL (something that was legally necessary for us to open accounts to collect donations/funds)

2) There's Friends of RPOL (this board) - people who love this site and want to help, whether by suggestions, donations of time and skills, donation of funds, or all of these.


-- 1) This organization is responsible for governing the way that we collect/hold/distribute funds.  All this has made me think a bit more.  I want a secondary 'rep' on these accounts.  The paypal account that currently has funds intended for this site is linked to one of my personal credit cards.  The bank account Friends of RPOL (US Bank) is linked to my tax id number.  NOW -- with that being said, it WILL be someone I trust, personally, who is named the secondary.  Right now, if I was hit by a bus today, the funds would be lost.  I don't like that one little bit.  I'll type up some info directing that should something happen to me, the funds in these accounts should be immediately transferred to either woof or johnb's account.  (Guys, if you would give me some information as to how I can send the funds to you in the event of my death or incapacitation AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, I would appreciate it.)

     NOW ... as long as these accounts are linked to me personally, no matter who decides what, ONLY someone I trust personally is going to be acceptable to me to have access to my credit card info and/or any banking info that I hold.  Off the top of my head, there's a select few here that I would trust to be that secondary -- dollsteak being one, and possibly a couple of others.  (No offense meant to anyone else, but I don't know alot of those here except thru this board.)  Does that make it an 'inner circle' (how I hate that *@#$&% stupid term)?  I don't care.

In other words, the whole darn site could vote to have Dag made a US rep/salesman/collector/whatever, and he still wouldn't get access to any account that is linked to me.  Same goes for the other 3 at the meeting.  They could vote him in, and I STILL wouldn't accept it.  (I would simply transfer the funds I held over to woof or another RPOL collection point and walk away.)

2) This group of people who want to help out however we can holds no special status.  If any of them have concerns about how I'm collecting the money or reporting it to woof and the others who are GM's on this board, I'm more than happy to let them have their say in whatever issue they have an opinion.  However, the help that they give is totally up to woof and his designated representatives.  There is no special status to being a 'Friend of RPOL' -- except that, to me, I'm extremely happy to know that others like this site and want to say thanks by helping out.  Is that an 'inner circle'?  Well, it does represent a bunch of people that I'm proud to play with.

RPOL is woof's site.  Woof has accepted help from others, whether in editing/monitoring/picture editing, whatever.

Whether any of that makes sense or not, my general conclusion is that those who say that we're looking too deep into this are absolutely right.

Woof, you can count on me to help this site however I can, so long as it continues to be run in the same wonderfully friendly fashion.  You can count on me to report donations sent to the accounts that I have established, to hold them in said accounts until required, and to pass them along in a timely manner.

If ANY of you have any doubts about that, I'll be happy to pass along the funds currently there, close the accounts, and go back to my games.  That goes for the members of 'FRPOL' as designated for the bank account John opened, or any of the GM's on this site.

And if you're willing to trust me with the responsibility of doing that, and the donating members are willing to trust me, I'll be happy to keep doing it.  In that event, dollsteak, gimme a yell and I'll give you the account names/password AND a check to use to clear out the funds in the checking account in the event of my death/incapacitation.  If you don't want to be the secondary, I'll consider other alternatives.

Dang, by the time I got finished reading all this stuff, I was so confused I don't even know how this argument/dust up got started or why.  But please ... don't try to explain it to me.  I have a headache already.

Sorry for the length of the above.

One more thing - should woof lose interest/die/be incapacitated, then dollsteak is right.  If he chooses to pass RPOL along to Friends of RPOL, this group would have more significance than it does now.

I hope that never happens.  If it does, then I suggest that those who are still helping in the event of any of these tragedies simply act in the best interest of keeping this site opened and heading in the same direction.

Myself, I trust each of the GM's of this 'game/forum' to do just that.  All elections and politicking and thinking up rules to cover any/every eventuality does, IMnsHO, is create work for lawyers.

Shannara, thanks for the trust, but my 'boss' will not allow me to put my name on anything official with respect to this 'hobby' of mine.  As I trust her with all of my financial affairs, I will not second-guess her with this decision.  I made this point abundantly clear on numerous occasions, inside the meeting and out.  Therefore, to associate me with any position that has been designated for financial purposes is not logical in any sense of the word.

When John approached me with this Friends of RolePlay On-Line idea, it was to create an element that would possibly, eventually, help this web-site run itself.  It was to be for the community, not for a group of four people.  I am not comfortable being a part of some small group of essential people because that forms an inner circle.  And anyone who is to be added to the official positions need to be voted in by the current members.

There is only one position that should be essential, and that's the treasurer.  That person is entrusted with all the money that filters through to the proper hosts.  No small group of people should be allowed to voice the trust of the community.  Sorry.  I'm sure there probably isn't one person who'd speak against Shannara, but they should still have had the opportunity.  Far as I care, the rest of the positions are just luxury.

By leaving the vote of a conflict of interest for the chairman position to group 8, you have justified my feelings that this whole setup is based on what a small group of people feel, not a community to help sustain itself.  It is not what it was proposed to me initially.

You're missing the point.  My name would still be on it -- you would only have access to the information, and could initiate the transfer for me in the event of my death.  That's all.  But that's neither here nor there - you don't want to do it, that's okay with me.  I'll figure out a way to make sure that someone has access to these funds as a backup for me and that the donations given to FRPOL will go to RPOL.

Dollsy, tell you what.  I can't speak for anyone else, but feel free to open up the public floor for the position of Treasurer.  Anyone else wants to volunteer to do it, or if anyone thinks I shouldn't, I'll be happy find something else to do with my time.  I'm not campaigning, I'm not interested in proving myself or my credentials to the general public.  I volunteered to do it - simple as that, because I get a lot of enjoyment out of the games I play here.  It's not going to hurt my feelings in the least to have someone else do it.

Well, if people are going to pick pick pick at everything that gets said, we may as well forget the whole thing.
I was under the impression that the point of this was for a group of FRIENDS to try and raise money to ensure the survival of something they all enjoyed, not to score political points off each other.
What started out as a good idea is degenerating into petty bickering about semantics in less than a week.  Maybe it was a bit optimistic planning another meeting in three months.
Up until today I had a good feeling about this, now I'm just getting pissed off with it.

Thats the whole point, Ron.  A group of Friends is what it's been limited to.  When I was presented with the idea, it was to be a community of Friends, not just a select few.

Really, keep it however you want. I'm simply not comfortable with it the way it is set up and I'm opting out.  There is nothing wrong with me doing that.  The only conflict I saw was that the Secretary (and all official positions) was supposed to be held by Country Representatives.  Since I don't want to be a Country Representative, then I should be asked to step down from Secretary.

That's your call.  I'm willing to remain secretary.  But I will not segregate myself and elevate myself above the rest of those who come here.

I agree  Ron ...  I am beginning to  wonder  what I signed up for.

And I  am also like  Shan -  I  am more than happy  to stand down and let  someone  else  chair this whole set up.  I am not  here to be a control freak -  BUT if its my  credit card and financial reputation thats  holding the UK side together -  I need some element of control, atb least of the that  side of the operation.

I  MAY  be  prepared to  run the UK accounts  with someone else running F-RPoL  -  BUT  that  depend on the financial regulations they  bring in.  However, I am more than happy to hand over control of the UK account to  anoyone  who is  prepared to manage it.  However, I am still chair, I will expect the account to be run proprly, and will resign if  it  doesn't appear to be.

Its as simple as that.

Hey yo... what is this... I start a chain reaction?  I'm the only one who has spoke out against the current configuration and ideals of the group.  If the rest of you are thinking about ducking out, then that's just because I'm ducking out.

If you want to quit, you'd better have a better reason than dollsteak envy.

You can run this thing just fine without me acting as some sort of boardmember.  No matter what position I'm in, I'm still going to be full of opinion.

Doll - I  am reacting generally and  stating my position.  That's  all.  I am  more than happy  to  keep  my  roles in the fund raising side -  BUT  I  won't  keep doing it if its  not what people  want  done,  I am more than happy  to stand aside and let you, or anyone else, organise a different set up.

However, Friends of RPoL is  something completely differnet  from  what  we were sufggesting as replacement management  for PBW.  That  was a case of  taking ove rthe site and  making it a place run by the community  for the community.  Under those conditions, I am more than happy  to accept a fully  democratic organisation,  and will be  one of the ones that pushes hard for it.

Here, though, we are restricted to a role of  supporting Woof and his site, and that is  fine by me.  However, that  does make it a whole different ball game, and  means that  we  have to  chnage the  modus operandi, to  something that works in that suport role.

If the FoRPoL is only about making money as you continue to claim, then we don't need anyone but the Treasurer and those who have some other form of payment procedure for their country as accountants.

There doesn't need to be Country Representatives.

There doesn't need to be a Secretary.

There doesn't need to be meetings with votes.

And there doesn't need to be a Chairman.

The portrait editing function needs to be disassociated from this group because I am not a "Country Representative", or you need to assign someone who is to the main Portrait Editor position.

Any decision that needs to be made should be available for the FoRPoL community.  By making those decisions for them without representing them is precisely why America went to war against England over 200 years ago.  What if one or more of the others on RPOL have something against the Treasurer we voted in?  (No offense to Shannara.  I can't see anyone saying anything bad about you, but it still should have been a public decision).  And what about her replacement?  Sure it should be someone Shannara can trust... but what about the trust of everyone sending their money in?  Doesn't that matter?

I'm through talking about it.  It's not what you proposed to me.  I resigned from that responsibility.  If you are uncomfortable with the way I perceive it, then change it.  Otherwise, don't worry about it.  Either way, I'm out of the line-up so I don't have an 'official say'.

That is my Humble Opinion.

Look at it this way.  There are 4 members of FoRPoL.  That's it.  Just 4.

Everybody else is an associate.  Later on others may become members.

The whole title of Country Rep is misleading.  We don't represent anything other than  the fact that there is a FoRPoL bank account set up in a particular country.
We can argue about the precise meanings of words until we wear our fingers down to the bone.  If you don't want to be called a Country Rep, then that's up to you.  It doesn't change the fact that you are a MEMBER as opposed to an associate.
The only reason the titles exist is to define who is a member, and is thus responsible for keeping an eye on a particular country's bank account.
My advice Doll, stop worrying about it and concentrate on why the thing has been set up.
In fact, John change the title to Member(Country) or something.  Maybe then we can stop all the arguing and get on with what we're supposed to be doing.
Quite frankly, if I was Woof now, I'd be saying "Strewth! What a bunch of wankers.  Do I really want their support?  They can't even agree on the meaning of a word!"

Man, doesn't anyone read what I'm saying?

I cannot do anything with funds... period.  Why am I included again?

Yes, I got that, but you are the one who seems to be stressed about the wording of the phrase Country Representative.
That's what I said; stop worrying about stuff like that.  It doesn't matter.  We'll get somebody else to back-up Shan, you carry on with the portrait function, and if you want to quit as secretary then I'll stand for it.  Nobody has to be involved any more than they want to, it's purely voluntary.
It's that simple...

It's not voluntary, it's inducted.  If it were voluntary, then some of those volunteers in that other messagebase would be offered a position within this special group of close-knit friends.  If it were that open to the public, then John's conflict of interest vote would be offered to everyone, not just group 8.

I'm sorry that I'm making such a big deal about it... but I simply don't want to be a part of what it will become, an inner circle.  I never liked good-ole-boy networks.  It wasn't my game.

Like I said, I can continue as Secretary if you want my services, but wording on the web site and those regulations got to change.  I am not to be associated with an inner circle... period.

Okay, do what you like.  You've soured the whole idea for me anyway...

And if you want to keep saying "Inner Circle", that's fine with me too SmilingDoll.
This message was last edited by the GM at 07:22, Sat 28 Sept 2002.

I don't see what else it could be without being restructured.  Call me names if you want.  Doesn't change the facts.

Don't see how I've soured things.  Everything remains the same... just without me associated.  Or am I getting you to thinking?
This message was last edited by the GM at 07:26, Sat 28 Sept 2002.

Here ya go.  I'll fix things and make them right for you, so you can go on your merry way and not have any of this nonsense spoken in group 8.  Really very simple to fix.

Not at all.  It was intended to be FRIENDS of RPoL, all this griping from the only person who seems to have a problem with the way John has it organised has made it less friendly.

May as well change the name to RPoL Finance Corporation and hire a slew of accountants and lawyers to run it.

I'm tempted to add dollsteak to group 8 just to be contrary :P

However, he's got just player access now, as he wanted.

Woof, I really would appreciate knowing how to get the funds to you that I've collected.  We don't have to do any transfers now, but the people that donated them wanted you to have them for site maintenance costs, and I want to make sure I have a safety in place so that the funds will get to you should something happen to me.

Since dollsteak is morally opposed to the idea, I propose that I make Arkwell my backup.  I've known him for a number of years, and he's offered to help before.

Shan -  sorry to  say this  but iunder the regulations  we  have to  have a meeting to   accept him -  BUT  we can call that  as soon as  we  get  a positive response  from Jaime  :)