On the other hand, there is the problem which I as a GM (not WOD i quickly point out) where the concepts themselves are great, but it is hard to integrate them into the story.

I think the plot hooks at the RTJ are a great idea.

Now that I think about the characters I have written over the years almost every one of them did included hidden hooks in the background. Only very rarely they ever materialized in the games, but they were there so they could have been used against my characters.

However, what I find so intimidating about coming up with a list of hooks when applying for a new game is that I don't feel I can know the specific setting well enough to presume to make such suggestions.

On the flip side, though, I don't mind if my players come up with the weirdest ideas, I just feel like a witch telling them 'no'. I'm rather surprised and grateful for the crew that has hung in there with me more than 1.5 years now and to the newer additions as well. :)

In my games, I require that players NOT submit a character sheet with their RTJ. I find it easier to wrap my head around things if the character is built in stages.

My requirements are that the players include a concept of the character in the initial RTJ, and they must be able to provide description, history, goals, etc for the character in subsequent conversation. Only when this process is underway or completed do I accept a mortal CS, to which the supernatural template is applied.

Oh, and I also usually ask the players tell me their real first names, that way I don't feel silly in my head when I refer to them by their Rpol handle.

LOL. I know one player's first name and I think I know another's but not sure. The other eight or so are a mystery to me. Then again, they don't know mine either and sometimes I wonder if they are not under the impression that I am a man. :P

I can't recall if I disclosed my real name in the Rules/RTJ thread the last time I held an open casting call* for characters. I do, however, always introduce myself by real name when someone tells me theirs when applying to my game.

*Lately, most of my games have been set up just for people I know IRL or have gamed with on Rpol before.

You've done it with me megadeus, and I feel that it helps to promote familiarity and friendship between the players and the GM, helps you think of them as other people rather than just forum handles.

I usually do what mega does as well, get some sort of concept and backstory first, and if that works, then move onto the character sheet. Too many people just want to have a combat monster or someone that is built to wipe the floor with people socially.

Yeah, I've found that most well-written backstories will have plenty of plot hooks buried in them already. The player can help things along by leaving lots of things left dangling, but ultimately it's up to the ST to decide which ones fit their particular game.

In my particular case, I tend to use a lot of player backstory material to add setting elements, create initial plot premises, and tie stuff in with the backstory material of other PCs. I think nearly half of the plotlines in my current game originated with player-submitted stuff (though it's probably not very straightforward and obvious to the players by the time they see it).

On the flip side, most GMs I've played for tend to ignore my backstories completely. They're mainly interested in the stats, and already have their own external storylines in mind that they want to run. I don't see anything wrong with that - it's just different styles of roleplaying and I enjoy playing both ways.



I agree. Most of the time it should be the ST's job to figure that part of it out, not the players'. Unless the game explicitly states that the setting is a collaborative work with everyone while the ST plans to take a back seat (I've seen those work well too, occasionally).

When setting up a game, I just require players to make interesting characters who fit into the setting. RTJ with a one line concept is enough to start working on...

When it comes to stats, I usually allow near anything but it has to make sense with the background. For me, the background is the most important part of a character. Plot hooks are welcomed but not required, I often ask players if there is anything they would like to happen to the character or if they have any ideas they would like me to incorporate.

I think that the only real requirement I have is that each player starts in a single thread and if they don't drop from the game by the time the mini-plot is resolved, they get to interact with other players...


My games normally have an introduction thread where every player can state their name (and other stuff) for the same reason...

Now I wonder whether I told you my name or not...

I don't know your name, Vampir.

Hmm...Think I should go and make a big confession?  Maybe it is safe now that the majority of the players has been there for near two years. Surely they wouldn't run , as long as I don't post any photos. ;)

I also go along the line of  asking for character concept with a bit of background to avoid having to work for a character which will then be rejected for not fitting in or requiring to much changes.

When I do a character (regardless of system) I usually put a few hooks in it...if the Gm use it good, if not no problem, but at less it give some extra ideas for arcs.

I always write that I don't wanna see any stats until I approve the character concept, but there's always someone who pushes for dots every chance they get.

As for when I'm a player, well almost uniformly GMs avoid the hooks I'm offering and try to iron my characters into plain vanilla, which is exactly opposite of what I want to play.

I always do it like this when taking in players.

Give me a concept - If we can't agree on that there is no need to use more time on character deleopment. When that is done I normally give my players OOC privileges.

Then I ask them to make a full background and first when that is accepted I want to see a character sheet cause the sheet should never be the important thing when you create a character.

The philosophy behind it is that, first you make a character then you make the sheet.

Hopefully my players feel that there is something gained by doing it this way, cause I try always to use the plothooks given by the players.

I think requiring a full character sheet is not a wise idea, but asking for a concept, and perhaps a background, is.  But, it also depends on how much you give the players in the way of information about your game.

I've always found that the more you give to the players, the better characters you get in return.

As far as hooks go, one doesn't necessarily need a background to get hooks.

As a player, I am as willing to accommodate the gm's desire for extra detail as needed.  Full background and character sheet if that's what they require can be provided.  I draw the line at obsessive compulsive behavior, which often displays itself among power gm's who want cookie cutter concepts.  I probably wouldn't tolerate that in D&D, I'm definitely not tolerating that in my beloved (o/n)Wod.

Within reason, of course...if they say this is a Sabbat chronicle, and I walk over a sheriff, I expect to be criticized or chewed out.  I do not however, expect to write a complete rtj, background and character sheet and then be asked for more expansion yet.  That's about my limit.

I actually prefer clearly defined rtj requirements, as they, along with the labels on maturity, keep childish writers with one sentence posts from the game.

For myself as a GM, Like a gm above, I prefer a short summary of background, as I don't need a large writing sample to see if a person can hang with my game.  I then ask for them to meet the minimum requirements by game start (with no punishment for not meeting game start other than not participating until they are ready.)

I am willing to overlook some mispelling or incorrect use of english ( a lot of great foreign players are among us) but there is a line there too.  If they are not at least in medium proficiency in english, there is little point in play by post.

The first time I submitted a complete character sheet, only to be told that the game was already full and closed (even though it still had the red star on the title and the ad was not edited to say closed) was the last, it's simply too much work for a game that may die in a week (as seems the norm here).

If I was one of those players who simply recycled the same character over and over then it wouldn't be an issue.

I do not recycle the same character, and yet, i can put together a new character and sheet in a few hours.

It isn't all that hard Astron. Just takes an imagination.

Good for you, Rhia.

I'm one of those that takes forever to make a character too. If I have to start from scratch each time, it takes me weeks. That's why I recycle.

I must confess that I'm same, too.

So I lack imagination?

Even it it only takes a few hours, that's a few hours wasted if the game is already full by the time you submit it, when 10 people who can make a character in 30 seconds by recycling have already applied and the GM has picked 5 of those and closed the game while you were making the character.

Besides, Dm's who ask for complete characters as a requirement for an rtj are not usually not worth the effort in my experience here.

That is a very valid point Astron is making and the main reason I recycle my characters (or at least save them for later use).

Talking as a gamemaster/storyteller/etc my usual approach is to have the players to give me a concept first. Although some players don't do that and send in a complete character, with background and the works and when that happens that character concept usually is already taken, which results in that I turn the character down.

My main point is that when you set up a game you shouldn't set too high demand on people, it isn't very likely your newly created game are going to become the next City of Decay or All that Glitters so why require that players create characters as if you are going to play for years. I know I did just that in my Demon game, something I'm not very proud of and the whole thing made me rethink the whole issue. Ok this is becoming rantish... all I want to say is a character should be enough with a background, some description of personality then the sheet itself... that is it. If more is needed then you can always make things up as you play along.
This message was last edited by the user at 05:46, Mon 09 July 2007.

It's $64,000 question, not to ask too much or too little. I really don't know how to make that golden middle.

I have noticed myself that I usually look at how that written concept is made up. Some RTJ you get from people you just know that "this player is what I want" and usually they don't have to write any more then the concept (then always do of course). Then of course we got the: "Hi I want to play an elder-something that has an elder-something.... and so on."

Those are usually turned down ;).

Even if I recycle sometimes, it can take a day or two for me to rtj. Simply because even if the concept is ready, I often change the character to fit into the game better. Recycling doesn't mean "copy/paste and done!" Not if you want the character to work well in the new game and the new setting. Rtj'ing also means reading up on the GM-threads and some of the IC-threads (if it's an old game).

I make new characters too when I have more time on my hand, vacations and such. That means I have concepts and character sheets ready for a new game. But the downside is that you come up with this great character and the game never show up. That's what has happened with my poor Crúac-vampiress at the moment =(.

I kove writing up new characters, but I hate the character sheet part. Personalities, background and all that is fun, but putting numbers on the sheet? Ugh. :)

I have recycled ideas when games disappeared without giving me a chance to explore the concept. I have also recycled one complete chatacter and she is now excatly in the kind of an game she was designed for. (I've finally gotten to play a Vampire, in case I haven't already told you that.)

The point I had when starting this thread was, however, finding it very hard to provide a fully developed character with several storyhooks to boot when one isn't given much information on the setting and none at all on the other PCs.

The remark on foreigners hit a raw spot. It always does and always will. A big part of that is that the majority of us do try our best, quite unlike those who use no punctuation, capital letters or paragraphs.

Thankfully most of my players are not so critical and are willing to forgive small mistakes. :)

After years playing on RPoL, it seems to me that there is no correlation between being a foreigner and a player that not use punctuation, capital letters or paragraphs. There are plenty of English speaking players that aren't using those.

An advice to players that doesn't have English as a native language is to use spellcheck. I also try to google on phrases to get the grammar right. But unfortunately, I make mistakes anyway. As you said Forest Spirit, we try our very best. And I don't mind being corrected. That's how I learn.

I agree with you that it's hard to rtj with a complete character with character sheet and all. My experience is that most GM's only asks for a concept and background. Some doesn't even want a char sheet sent with the first rtj. And some GM's doesn't mind helping if you need help with the creation of the character as long as the concept seems promising.