They all belong to the same Lanista at the start, fighting either as a unit, or team, or as individuals but the individual fights are never against each other...

now that I think of it, it's probably the most convenient if the actual team doesn't have many individual fights as I've seen two games break down on individual fights where one team member randomly stops posting.

Current idea: Rags-to-riches gladiatorial game set on Yrth, with the players fighting their way from the streets of Tredroy to the Great Games of Megalos in arena battles across the continent. Exhibitions in trade towns, private games for noble sponsors, intrigue, and social climbing.

Between bouts players can scrabble for social advancement, work side jobs for coin, train, or spend all their winnings on ale and whores.

Option: Some players may play management staff -- trainers, booking agents, coaches, etc -- instead of gladiators themselves. There'd be plenty for them to do while the gladiators themselves are training and competing.

Point values wouldn't be incredibly high to start - you're fighting your way from the bottom up - and advancement would be entirely training based. Want to improve your skill, put in 200 hours with your trainer. Want a patron, impress somebody a lot.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:23, Mon 04 June 2012.

I find those banestorm dwarfs tolerable (they don't have weird requirements of females and they don't have their females so infrequent that homosexuality is an undertone of the race). Banestorm doesn't require templates which is a plus for being able to create characters less restrictively than DF. Do you have plans for magic? Power Level?

I can't think of any other concerns right now...

Magic will be standard GURPS magic, but your "league" will be nonmagical. Exhibition matches may include bouts against creatures or characters that use it, but that's the exception rather than the rule. Battles will be determined by the players' tactical choices and the characters' skill.

TBAM, Weapon Master, and Chi skills are all potentially an option.

Power level will be middling initially. 150 points perhaps, with advancement chiefly through training rather than CP awards.

does winning matches or completing goals grant CP that can be used anywhere regardless of training (except not to buy traits you can't pay for outright)?
This message had punctuation tweaked by the player at 23:59, Mon 04 June 2012.

No CP will be awarded.

You can improve skills through training (200 hours with a training/point). Attributes can be increased in the same way (200 hours of training/point). That's 2000 hours of training to raise ST, but remember - gladiators don't actually fight that often. A few bouts a year. Maybe a tourney at the end. The rest of their time is spent training or pursuing other goals.

Social advantages (wealth, status, etc) can be pursued in game as well. Want a Patron, impress somebody. Want a contact, make a friend.

In practice I might say something like "A month goes by. You have 600 hours to spend." Then you might devote those hours to different sorts of training, or doing whatever else your character does in his spare time. If he's a "serious competitor" he might spend all 600 in the gym. If he's a party animal he might spend it all drinking and whoring -- which will make him a more popular gladiator with those fans, which may lead to more prestigious matches, which may lead to sponsorships, bigger purses, and a larger fan-base.  (In game terms, Patrons, Reputation, and Wealth).

but it becomes easier to say "I spend 300 hours as a bar-fly" than to actually roleplay as the other players may specify training or whatnot that is conducive to speeding up time. Additionally there is no sense of accomplishment when you take away CP earned from specific tasks. I'd have to pass if these assumptions hold true.

yep. Improving social traits will involve more roleplay than going to the gym and pumping iron, but that applies to the real world as well. Want to play an interesting character who does interesting things? Then build that character.

But if you require social interactions to play out and don't have the same requirement of a "training montage" it may seem a little contrived. Additionally the ones who want to develop their social abilities may look like camera hogs compared to the guy off in the corner who says "I spent my 600 points on training this technique and my 3 points to raise it to skill+0 now hurry up with the d--- game!"

If you don't require it, that's the same as saying "This game is about Roll-play and Time Use Sheets!" (or their handwaved equivalent). Neither option is an exercise I'd like to entertain.

I guess you could say that in a nutshell is the problem I have with Arena games.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:59, Tue 05 June 2012.

And that's a choice the players are free to make. Do I want to play an antisocial gym rat who doesn't interact with anybody and spends long periods of time alone? No? Then don't make that character.

It doesn't take "200 hours" per point to gain social advantages. To make a friend you just have to establish a rapport. To turn a friend into a contact/patron you just have to increase their loyalty to you. How's that work? Take time off of training to hang out (which needn't all be roleplayed), or make friends chiefly with training partners.

The biggest hang up that I have is that you require x hours for non-social traits but don't allow for insight to account for increase combative abilities. The same way saying just the right thing in a situation can get an instant contact or patron or whatever, such could be said about learning from a critical success or failure at a combat roll (which doesn't have to require 200 hours of training or quietly thinking about it off in the corner). Such things could be simulated by spending earned character points which you've taken out of the game. The social gains become lopsided otherwise. I'll pass.

Learning skills takes time. Making friends and influencing people takes opportunity and luck... and roleplaying.

If you really believe in the concept that players can't earn points in play just because they accomplished something worthwhile to the story (or even perhaps just because the player served the meta-function of actually making the game more fun)-regardless of realism-then I can't play in your games because their story isn't sufficient for me as a role-player rather than a roll-player.

"oh hey you saved the town from an orcish platoon"

So what I didn't earn any points because I didn't spend 200 hours training in using my sword.

I also didn't spend 200 hours working on that massive rock trap either.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:45, Tue 05 June 2012.

Okay, now understand that in most GURPS games I give CP out like candy. I'm choosing advancement through training because it fits the theme of the game better.

"oh hey you saved the town from an orcish platoon"

Rewards:
There's still a town
+ Reputation among people who think you're great for saving a town
+ whatever monetary rewards are involved from the townsfolk and spoils of war

Accomplishments do not mysteriously make you more skilled; the skills you have earn you accomplishments.

But since you're not interested I'm not going to bother working up the game and will go back to possibly running an arena game for those who enjoy that kind of thing.

Alright sorry if I seemed overly antagonistic I just have those very specific reasons why I don't like arena games and wasn't sure at the end there if the reason you were restricting advancements thusly was because you did that by default. Now that I know you don't I'm all good :D.

In pretty much every game I ran I'd have the social rewards separate from the rewards of "session CP" that I'd still give to the player and he could spend on Traps or Weapon Skill.

... but as you say gladiatorial games differ in their inherent style.

From playing with steelsmiter, I have to say that he gives out points like candy, too.  =)

Tortuga, one of my favorite aspects of arena play, besides the thrill of combat and the often excellent role-playing offered during and between matches, is the fun of my character growing and becoming stronger, and CP is a big part of that.  Arena combatants generally do develop much more quickly than in non-arena games, but again, that's part of the fun for me.  As I've gotten older, I've learned to appreciate the journey more and more, but I still enjoy those tasty bites of CP along the way.  =)

Yes, if I run a normal pvp arena game then CP will be awarded normally.

How's this sound:

Modern day underground bloodsports, in the vein of many 80s action films and most fighting games. The players compete, largely unarmed and unarmored, with the occaisonal "hardcore" match to keep things interesting. Arenas are abandoned warehouses, meat packing plants, construction sites, empty swimming pools, etc. Rewards are monetary though that's primarily an accounting of rank... the only weapons are those seeded in the arena, which will trend towards the improvised - wrenches, lead pipes, lengths of chain, baseball bats, the occasional knife, etc.

CP awards are fixed and the same for winners and losers; I want to avoid the power-creep that comes with long-running games, though of course more matches = more experience.

That sounds interesting.

I'd suggest you have some premade fighters for those that need them, and as examples of the right types/level of skills wanted.

That's a good idea.

That's a game I'd play in!

It's also a pvp arena game set in a modern urban environment.

Yeah... I did mention a preference for the other genre, I suppose. Really the only outright deal breaker for the other game was the lack of awarded CP. This game is still probably more lacking on RP than I'd want anyway.