Last one reached the post limit. Carry over to this one for OOC.

I think I may have to redo some of the callsigns to account for the changes or does that seem a bit confusing to everyone?
This message was last edited by the GM at 10:23, Thu 03 Dec 2009.

Why don't we do super cool callsigns like "Razor 3" and "Eagle 5" and "Hammer 7" and "Delta Actual"? No, seriously.

Well, we could do that but then we'd have to reserve one hand to keep down our pants.

Either that or all become US air force pilots with egos the size of a truck...

;)

Hey fellas, I need to know the order of march for the vehicles... as in which on is first, second, and so on.

In reply to Fusilier (msg #5):

My guess would be Bradley, M113 and then the BTR-70.

US Army callsigns that I'm familiar with generate easily and are easily expanded on.

Example for Alpha Company (Apaches)

Apache Six - Company Commander
Apache Seven - First Sergeant (Or otherwise most senior NCO)
Apache Five - Company XO
Apache Two - Company Intelligence Officer
Apache Eight - Fire Support Officer

Platoons are usually known as a color...

1st - Red
2nd - White
3rd - Blue

Example for 1st Platoon (Red) Leadership...

Red Six - 1st Platoon Leader
Red Seven - 1st Platoon Sergeant
Red One - 1st Platoon 1st Squad Leader
Red Two - 1st Platoon 2nd Squad Leader
Red Three - 1st Platoon 3rd Squad Leader

Team Leaders are Alpha's and Bravo's

Red One Alpha - 1st Platoon, 1st Squad, Alpha Team Leader
Red One Bravo - 1st Platoon, 1st Squad, Bravo Team Leader

Vehicles for Red (1st) Platoon and do not change

One Five - next most senior Section Leader
One Six - PL's Track
One Seven - PSG's Track
One Eight - least senior Section Leader

Drivers and Gunners are Delta's and Golf's

One Six Delta - PL's Track, Driver
One Six Golf - PL's Track, Gunner

Say at Battalion level, for example 2/28th IN (Black Lions)

Lion One - S1, Administration
Lion Two - S2, Intelligence
Lion Three - S3, Operations
Lion Four - S4, Logistics
Lion Five - XO
Lion Six - CO
Lion Seven - CSM
Lion Eight - Fires
Lion Nine - S6, Communications

This is pretty much the standard Army wide...only when you get weird attachments do you start seeing Hollywood Callsigns.  Even Army Aviators use this rather than Hollywoods.

I've seen you mention this a couple of times but I'm unsure what the reason is?  Is this something that most soldiers do to reduce the chance of miss-feeds or something?

The idea behind it is that magazine reliability can sometimes be stressed by max'ing out the count.  I, personally, have never had issues with keeping my magazines at 30/30.  Some folks seem to think the tension on the spring is too great and could cause a misfeed.

There are also arguments that say that you want to keep your magazines max'd out or completely empty.  That a partially stressed spring is worse for maintaining its tension than having it 'completely' relaxed or 'completely' compressed.

I just run with my stuff at max and refill partials when I get a chance.

Cheers,

Tim

I've never had a problem with mags either, at least in mags which weren't obviously damaged (usually it's just the lips which is bent preventing clean relase into the weapon - easy to fix with a pair of pliers and a little care).
Most often it's the weapon that has the problem, or the mag just hasn't been seated correct by the user (which means it falls out the moment you bump it).
The worst weapon for problems in my experience was the M16. I've also had issues with M60s but that turned out to have been the battalion armourers fault - they had a habit of repacing worn parts with other worn parts pulled from other guns because they were too lazy to do the paperwork and order new ones!

The Bradley is to move last in the order. It is the command and fire support vehicle. The M113 is probably going to move in the front when travelling single file as it has half a dozen sets of eyes out the top watching for danger.
I believe the BTR might also have four infantrymen with their heads exposed through the roof hatches, but I don't really trust NPCs to do the job properly.
When in more open terrain, we'll move in a "Two up" formation - BTR and M113 side by side but with at least 50 metres between (preferably 100+).

Note that Ben has kept everyone busy from dawn through to 3pm with practise drills,etc. There's been little time to sit about until the last couple of hours in the day.

I think that you might have gotten confused about the time of day - the time is 06:00.



GM - Yes. Reveille/eat was 0400, attack begins 0500, then an hours wait - 0600.
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:11, Mon 30 Nov 2009.

Most characters I play don't do that with the magazines.  This particuliar PC, I deceided to have him do that.  With the shape & state of the world, he thinks he's saving the springs in his mags since new replacements are far and few between and he has been stretching the mag springs for sometime.

Thank God the Tobacco is still good.

Mitch would kill for a decent pint of beer! <G>

Beer?! Pfft. If you're going to drink. Skip the foreplay and go for the big win.

Vodka.

Ah, Vodka is good when you're trying to get hammered but what Mitch misses is sitting in a pub having a laugh over several beers - it's partly a ritual rather than just being about the booze!

Tennessee Whiskey. Enough said.  Or some moonshine if you're adventerous, and want to go blind for a minute.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:16, Mon 30 Nov 2009.

Kentucky Bourbon if I will drink something state-side. Or as it is listed in one cafe here "Kentucky Wine"

With the Large and Brutish and Ever Grunting, Otto next to Kaminski...

I sorta feel like some weird Polish version of Han Solo and Chewbacca... cept we both have shaved heads with Yamulkes..

I'll second that!

Hmm, so I did. For some reason I had 1800 stuck in my mind.

Oh well, that just means the drills were done before dawn in the dark!

:P

Another slightly random question - as the M113 commander would Mitch be wearing a CVC Helmet or a radio headset and his own infantry helmet?



I think we've just found the aim of the next trading trip! <G>



Mitch may just have dozed off in the commander's position while everyone was tripping over each other getting into and out of the M113! <G>

Alright, great. I've finally finished plotting enemy positions and details, and with your OOB I'll have the post up tonight.

I think only 2 players traded in som EP for skills, but there's still a little time for last minute improvement.

Thanks for the last minute reprieve. I would like to buy a 2 in thrown weapon (I anticipate some grenade chucking) and 2 in autogun in case he needs to take over an MG. I think I can do that with my 5 SPs.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:48, Tue 01 Dec 2009.

In reply to Varis Babicevs (msg #25):

Thrown weapon 1 > 2 (2XP)
Autogun 0 > 2 (3XP)

Done (I changed your sheet already).

Fus you got the note about me raising Leadership w/ Kaminski, no?

In reply to Krzysztof Kaminski (msg #27):

Yes. Its done.

I know most of you were probably expecting large building type urban warfare, but I hope everyone is ok with the start of things. At the rate the perimeter is shrinking you'll be slugging it out in the old city by tomorrow maybe. And there still house clearing ahead.

EDIT - I forgot to add something to the map. That highway bridge over the rail lines is downed. Its probably only a minor point, but you'll have to use the smaller bridge just to the north of it. The rail lines are actually in a shallow depression compared to the roads and surrounding area.


This message was last edited by the GM at 15:21, Tue 01 Dec 2009.

Nah. I'm ok with it for sure. This sounds interesting. We haven't been fighting against the clock before. Or anything like this at all for that matter.

We have mortar support, yes?

In reply to Oskar Friedmann (msg #31):

Besides you own 60mm, yes. But limited (as in you shouldn't drop rounds on targets you don't necessarily have to).
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:51, Tue 01 Dec 2009.

Just to point out (not saying that will change anything or that a covered route is pointless), we're going to get spotted anyways I think. Pearce mentioned they think the Soviets have a FO team up on the side of the hill. If they can see the harbor, they'll see us.

In reply to Helmut Meyer (msg #33):

See and quite probably hear....

Should we dismount and send out an infantry patrol?  Or is part of our objective to be seen and attract enemy armour/AT capability so that we can try and destroy it?

I think the time table we have to follow removes the option of sending infantry on ahead. Although that would be a good idea any other time.


I think we would be better off attracting the enemy who are our primary targets (the guys on the move). If we get bogged down at the first objective we won't make it in time to reach the second.

I think that you are correct on both points but I suspect that circumstances may prevent us from simply moving to engage our primary target.

Damn!

did we take that 122mm rocket? Perhaps we could use that as an indirect fire weapon in addition to the mortar?

Also what is the fire control like on the BTR? As in can we drive around like a bat out of hell and use speed as an advantage with little loss in the ability to shoot at targets? Or will that cause all our rounds to go all over the place?

I was more into not letting anything take aim with an RPG.

What if one team heads further NW along the river. Fast. Takes the second bridge over and then cuts back along their rear flank? We can try to scissor them.

I hate the fact that we don't have any indication on their numbers.

OK, anyone with a view on the plan either voice it IC or here, I'll then issue an order that tries to accomodate as many views as possible without making it suicidal.

One question to throw into the discussion - do Kaminski, Otto or Volodya have any local knowledge of this area that will be beneficial to us?  From looking at the map there doesn't seem to be a way to cross the river without being seen from the likely FO position but they may know of something.

A danger to consider with this is that they may have reserve elements that this team could bump into.  As you said though we have no indication of their numbers and limited knowledge of their positions.

The BTR can haul ass I believe so given that Otto, Kaminski and Volodya know the area we can try a Blitz over there and tear through the front elements lines.

So far everything we're going on is speculation anyway.

RE: Local Knowledge. I'd assume so but whether it will help us or not remains to be seen. Will wait for Kaminski's next post / and or Fus's next post for that.

OK - here is a slightly alternative strategy designed to draw out the enemy and engage them with the vehicle weapons while the dismounted infantry move up (hopefully unseen) through the woods and then engage.

The plan is that we deploy the mortar at point A (on the map below) where it should be able to integrate with some militia units for additional security.

The remainder of the unit then move to the bridge we're crossing by and follow the rough route indicated by the green line, pausing at roughly B to dismount all three elements of infantry, hopefully without their dismounting being seen as we appear to be in trees by that point.

The three vehicles then move onto the avenue and move a little up it, paying attention to both the houses on the left and the woods on the right.  Should there be a Pact covering force where indicated then the vehicles will be able to engage them at 400m to 500m (ish - I've attempted to add a scale to the map which Fusilier will need to approve) if we wish or move closer if necessary.

While this is going on our infantry can move up through the woods to our right while we are hopefully drawing the attention of the enemy.  Should the infantry get into trouble then the vehicles are placed where they can provide some covering fire.



The main weakness with this strategy (that I can spot initially) is the cover presented by the building to the left of the green route - we may need to check that out with infantry to be certain that it doesn't contain any enemy forward elements and that would mean our infantry crossing the avenue and becoming obvious.

Lastly a general point that has just occurred to me - if there are limited bridges across the steep sided railway then it's possible that some forward elements may be covering those bridges to prevent our vehicles from crossing.

Does this strategy have any merit?  What do people think?
This message was last edited by the player at 10:25, Wed 02 Dec 2009.

No I know. I was just pointing out to everyone that we shouldn't expect to be able to surprise the enemy like we did at the arty position.

The friendly units here are militia allied with the Merchant Union / Fisherman's League. If anyone has comms (like radios) it would be them. Nothing (like contact reports) have come over to net to indicate that they are engaged that or enemy units are in the immediate vicinity of the bridges. Scouts maybe, but likely nothing large enough to want to hassle you.

Kaminski's info of this are is limited to pre-war knowledge. There is little need for most people to travel towards NW Gdansk. Radiation, rubble, and very mean neighborhoods are all that way.

I haven't had a chance to read over the IC thread for the past couple of days, but I'm sure the 60mm Mortar has the range to reach our area of operations from our basecamp. There should be no need to move it at all throughout the duration of the battle unless it comes under direct threat.

Whatever is done, maximum use of cover MUST be taken. We can't afford the enemy to have even the slightest unnecessary opportunity to shoot at either our vehicles or infantry. A single slightly wounded member could well spell disaster in the long run (death by a thousand papercuts).

Again, I haven't seen the IC thread yet, but I would position the vehicles hull down if possible to provide direct fire support while the infantry deploy to counter attack using smoke using white phos as visual cover (in addition to terrain).

We need to keep the IFVs out of the way of all antiarmour weapons (RPGs, AT grenades, etc) as well as tanks. They're not able to withstand even one glancing shot from them so it'll be predominately up to the infantry to deal with them.

Vehicle commanders mustn't be afraid of driving over the top of enemy infantry however, just make sure they can't destroy you first! ;)

What if the Reds have infantry deployed in the treeline near the bridge?  What if their holding point is farther up than reported?

Things like this - exactly why plans don't survive past first contact. Good thinking. Just be prepared to quickly adjust your plan as things develop.

If ya'll are going to follow the time frame limits sets for you, this most likely will have to be a hasty attack (compare to a deliberate attack where you have the luxury of recce'ing the objective, rehearsals, etc). This is point-and-go only.

Someone with more Leadership than Kaminski choose or lets just go and..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...&feature=related

Heh,

Folks, I need to apologize.  My heads not in the game right now.  I'm barely keeping track of what's going on and I finding it difficult to dig into it to post properly.  It might be best to semi-NPC Weiss.  If you need something from him and you don't get it in a timely manner, just post for him.

I hope I'll get my poop in a group shortly.  This is probably one of the best run games with some of the best players I've ever been a part of and I don't want to lose that.  I apologize for any inconvenience this causes.  You guys are awesome.

Cheers,

Tim (Kurt)

In reply to Kurt Weiss (msg #52):

Hope everything gets sorted out!

In reply to Kurt Weiss (msg #52):

Thanks Tim. Check you PM box please.

It is a bit much to sift through. I think after we cover the battles in Gdansk I'm going to downsize extra baggage a bit. It'll make a leaner game but challenging as you'll have less to work with.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:11, Thu 03 Dec 2009.

In reply to Robert Mitchell (msg #53):

Same here.

GL Tim

Three Zero is Four Zero?

I'm getting confused. I was assuming "Four Zero" is being called "Three Zero" now by some.. what's the deal?

Why isnt the HUMVEE Four Zero and the BTR Three Zero? Make sense no to go down the line?

I have to confess that I'm confused as well.......

Yeah.

Fus, can you clarify this up for us?

Also, Kaminski will stay off the radio. It's sorta confusing being commander but not commander. Will make observation checks though and shout at Otto and if Weiss needs help w/ Voloyda he'll shout at him too :P

I'm under the impression ya'll are still going by this. The motorbike is normally Three Zero.


This message was last edited by the GM at 10:24, Thu 03 Dec 2009.

me too. i just keep hearing four-zero and am confused.

noted and set :)

I'm not sure who'll be carrying the MG now (as Fox has switched to his rifle) but it's likely to be a 7.62mmN belt for either the M60 or the M240 (I think).

Some day, Oskar will be able to ride that bike during a firefight and I will rejoice.

Alternatively:

Where was that SLAP ammo?

Ooh - not good - I have a teething 17 month old at present so have some idea where you're coming from!

Luckily I'm still at work! <G>

Alright everyone. Its all up to you to prevent Oskar from getting on the bike. Otherwise the 2nd picture is exactly what you'll see.


I put a box on the gun, and the rest are inside the M113.


This message was last edited by the GM at 16:20, Thu 03 Dec 2009.

Sorry - my comment was supposed to be a joke about shooting Oskar with SLAP ammo if he gets naked on a motorbike.  Sorry if it sounded like a genuine question. <S>

I'm not stripping until I get the winged helmet.  Then all bets are off.

When Oskar dies, this is who will pick him up off the battlefield:

Oskar's going to try and jump the BRDM.

I thought that the trees were going to be too densely packed for the vehicles to move through safely but, as it appears that they’re ok to do so, I’d suggest that the infantry is moving ahead of the vehicles amongst the trees and the vehicles are moving close enough to provide fire support & immediate extraction if necessary.

What do other people think though?

What are the orders?

When in doubt, check link to a message in this game - message #3.

I have been intending to post something IC about JJ's use of "unauthorised" or unofficial callsigns earlier, but been swamped the past few days.

In reply to Robert Mitchell (msg #72):
My concern with your idea is that it leaves the potential for flank shots from the Spandrel mounted BRDM. At least if the vehicles moved up the avenue, they'd have better cover from it. Converseley, we don't know what if any AT weapons are watching the road. One option would be to recon the position (if it exists where initally marked up the road) on foot, however that also poses the risk of the recon party being spotted or worse.  Also, perhaps the bulk of their forces are in the buildings across avenue in which case we would leave our flank exposed. Also, waiting for a recon party wastes precious time.  Then you have the possible FO's on the hill to the west, who may or may not spot us soon, and you can bet an armor column waiting on a recon force is an inviting target.


Again not my decision, just listing possibilities.  Any plan must take time into account, as this is currently our secondary objective.

As Ben stated in the initial briefing, Kaminski is really only acting as an extra set of eyes for Weiss. The layout of the BTR (in my opinion) isn't all that great in that it doesn't allow the gunner a very good view of the battlefield. I believe that it's standard proceedure for the BTR commander to dismount with the infantry, however we're not operating under Soviet doctrine and there's no way I'd want Kaminski let loose!

;)

I don't know about the other two vehicles, but an M113 can knock down trees relatively easily (seem them push through up to foot thick trunks!). I imagine the Bradley with it's heavier mass could do even better, while the wheeled BTR might struggle somewhat.

Of course it's not exactly healthy for any infantry in the area...

According to Ben's orders in Message 102, and the image above, Meyer and the morter team were to remain with the Humvee and UAZ at our campsite.
From that location they should have the range to reach almost all the expected areas we would be engaged in. They would also be constantly ready to fire without having to set up, survey the area to ascertain their exact co-ordinates and the baseplate would remain bedded in maximising accuracy.

Personnel assignments have been updated: link to a message in this game
Note the additional equipment/weapons that each character was ordered to carry have been listed for easy reference.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:55, Fri 04 Dec 2009.

Just be thankful we're not carrying packs too!

;)

According to Ben's orders in Message 102, and the image above, Meyer and the morter team were to remain with the Humvee and UAZ at our campsite.
From that location they should have the range to reach almost all the expected areas we would be engaged in. They would also be constantly ready to fire without having to set up, survey the area to ascertain their exact co-ordinates and the baseplate would remain bedded in maximising accuracy.

However, Meyer has posted that he followed us and so we'll have to write it off as one of the first mistakes under the chaos of battle. In the end, the benefits of a stable position for the mortar might get outweighed by counter battery fire. I'm sure that the IB motor pool would have something to say about a staionary mortar firing next to their position and asking for retaliation. At least this way we get to decide where the mortar deploys rather than having a local commander ordering it to move when we might need it.

Yes I did. It was an oversight at the time, but I think best in the end.

working some doubles at thed prison.  please NPC as needed to keep story going so I don't hold up

john

I agree - in the chaos that is Gdansk keeping our unit together as much as possible sounds like a good idea to me!

How is it that a mortar, roughly 50 rounds and four extra men were not spotted when we loaded up?
How can it possibly be believed that around four tonnes of extra equipment, a UAZ, Humvee and motorbike were all left unattended?

It may have been a posting oversight, but the orders were clear. So is the fact there is no way theuy could have accidentally tagged along with nobody noticing!

we all have our moments. maybe it was deliberate.

I had assumed that they had come in the HUMVEE.

Maybe Meyer made a really good stealth roll?

According to the picture it looks like they took both the HMMWV and the UAZ.

this. i dont know why we would roll out with ALL the gear?

i thought it was M113, M2, BTR, HUMVEE w Mortar.

Would you leave you jeep parked somewhere unattended in downtown Kabul?

heh good point. i just figured it was @ the billet

Lots of people do that, nobody goes anywhere near an uattended car in Kabul, it's too likely to go boom.

Three of the four members of the mortar team are wounded to the point that they cannot effectively fight. This to me also means they're unable to haul the mortar and it's ammo about, move quickly or sneak into the back of an APC.
Both the Humvee and UAZ are stuffed with very tempting gear, not something you tend to pack onto a car bomb. I'm sure even during a battle, there'd be at least a few willing to take the risk.
Driving about the city with both vehicles is also a serious waste of fuel. There's simply no need to do it as the mortar has the range to reach almost everywhere we are likely to go from our campsite. The mortar crew is also made up predominately of NPCs (George hasn't posted in a very long time now) and with Meyers player handling another PC for the duration, there's little need to keep them actively involved IC.


In the initial "O" group, Oskar was goven the choice to arm Fox with either the RPG and SMG, or Mf0. Oskar was also given the choice for miself or either the M240 or his AK/ BG-15. If he wants to take both options that's up to him as commander of his team, but I would suggets that as several other members of his team are carrying disposable launchers, he allow Fox to carry just the machinegun and leave the RPG & SMG in the M113.
Volodya's team is heavily armed with automatic weapons and well suited to engaging infantry. The 3 RPG-7 rounds they carry should be sufficient to deal with any armoured threats in the (hopefully) brief perid before support can join them.
Note that Plt HQ has 3 AT weapons (four counting the AT grenade Ben carries) as part of their standard load. Surely 1 section can match them and 2 section?
This message was last edited by the player at 23:01, Fri 04 Dec 2009.

Re: the mortar "platoon". We need to roll with it. I'm not sure what good this argument is going to do unless Fuse presses the REWIND button and sends them back. Apparently, they came along with the rest of the group and are closer than originally ordered. Let's move on from there.

Re: The AT weapons. Leg/Ben may be right and we may end up being sorry for not taking more LAWs and such (I hope not!). On the other hand, that's a lot of extra weight. IRL, overburdened infantrymen can't move as quickly, and they tire a lot faster too. I don't know if Fuse tracks "encumbrance" (I don't, really), but some of our PCs could, rules-wise, lose movement or innitiative points if we try to carry ALL of that gear.

Let's not beat a dead horse. Let's just play.

The extra weight may have a positive effect - it's force people to actually USE their grenades, etc to reduce weight.

There are strong reasons to leave the mortar crew behind, most of which have been listed. For them to relocate means they are not instantly available at all times, burns unnecessary fuel (or risks our stores and vehicles being stolen), etc.

The Mortar crew need at least two reliable and long range radios which the UAZ and Humvee provide - one tuned to the city net and the other to our vehicle net. this is so they may respond to all calls for fire, even if they originate from the IB (particularly important if fighting takes place near their location).

Don't worry. As soon as he has a decent target, Varis will be unburdening himself of 40mm just as quick as he can load and fire.



You're probably right. But, they've already repositioned so what's the use in continuing to critique the current situation?

If you want to game it out- and assuming Ben knows the mortar group has followed- then order them back IC and see what happens. Unless Fusilier is going to deus ex machina them back to base, they're now near the bridge and we need to accept it and move on.



Didn't the mortar group ride to their current position in the Humvee? Wouldn't the Humvee and its radio still be with them? It's not with the three tracks. If it is, it shouldn't be. An unarmored vehicle is a liability for the APC group.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:10, Sat 05 Dec 2009.

Looks to me that the message had been received and understood quite clearly. It was only the IRL delay between posts that caused confusion.

Only three callsigns (wrong as they were) are mentioned, therefore, only the three AFVs were in attendance.

Up until this very post, which as can be seen was based on a mistaken assumption, there was no sign of the mortar or it's crew. Nowhere has it been mentioned that either softskin was with the IFVs.
Therefore it's extremely easy to correct the mistake and place the mortar, and it's crew back with the softskins at our campsite.

The gang are NPCs and sitting around in cover waiting for the rumble of an armored vehicle to blast apart is no fun.  Besides, I venture that Oskar and Fox are the best shots with anything - if there's an anti-infantry unit, those two should be part of it... lest they get their own ideas and pursue that objective regardless.  :)

Mortar might be possible to correct, but in regards to squad placement and weapons issued, seems like Tough shit at this point.

I'm currently a little confused on our deployment position.  Are infantry ahead of Tracks, or vice versa?  Or are we parallel?

From my understanding, it's something like this

                                  /\
Section 1     [M113]    Platoon HQ  1/2 Volodya's men  [BTR]  1/2 Volodya's men

                                          [M2A2 slightly off center to engage BRDM]

And since Doc is at the far right side of the PHQ section, that puts him smack dab in the middle of the advance.

Correct me if I'm wrong.

In reply to Oskar Friedmann (msg #97):

With regard to the infantry, we have two teams of men plus the HQ/support.
The intent is that Plt HQ will give the two teams short term, readily achievable objectives such as "Take that building", "move to that point there", or "delay the enemy while the rest move back to the next defensive line", and so on.

How these objectives are reached is primarily up to the section commanders - Oskar and Volodya. It's up to them to direct the individual members of their group - Fox and Rooke for example may stand firm providing cover fire while the other three move, and then swap roles.


In reply to Mike Catchings (msg #98):

Yes, that's pretty much exactly how Ben wanted it. Mike in the middle to enable him to move in either direction to give medical aid, Ben as near to the middle as possible to issue any necessary orders by voice or hand signal, and Young close by as the connection to the city and artillery net.

On the right flank, Volodya is likely to have deployed with his RPD machinegun on the far right, Assistant gunner next, then RPG and assistant. To the left of the BTR might be (closest to BTR first) Volodya, Auto gunner 1, 2 and 3 (next to Mike).

On the left flank, it's up to Oskar to deploy his team, however I would suggest that one of the machineguns be on the extreme left flank and Oskar try to remain close to the middle of his section to make it relatively easy to control.

Spacings between each person should be no closer than 5 metres, 10+ being preferable to avoid grenades and other explosions taking out too many at once.

JJ appears to be directing the vehicles to detach from the infantry line and operate independantly, however as he is using incorrect callsigns, the right thing for the other two vehicles to do is ignore his commands as they are a) confusing and b) could potentially be enemy in origin. It is however his role and right to direct the vehicles how he wishes.

If the vehicles do detach from the line, Ben will have Plt HQ drop back into a depth position approximately 20 metres behind while 1 & 2 sections close the gap, reducing the frontal coverage by about 30 metres or so. Once contact with the enemy is made, he may order one of the sections to halt and provide cover fire while the other assaults the position - only time will tell exactly how it all pans out though.

Fusilier - I think that you need to make a call regarding where the mortar is placed.  I'm happy to abide by whatever decision you make as it is, after all, your game.

I'm doing up the turn now. Since it was a posting error and my own mistake, the mortar group is remaining at the billet. With that comes advantages, but also potential disadvantages that I hope won't be complained about later if they happen. That said, its over with and lets concentrate on what is in front of you instead of what is behind.

I know some of you mentioned scanning ahead (even with binoculars in Mitch's case) but you won't see any Observation rolls in the die roller in case you were wondering. They're taken into account, but hidden... just so you know.

Ok. I'm going to go finish the turn now. Here is a map in the meantime. I'll put up a second map later that shows the individual PC/NPCs illustrating where exactly everyone is. The red dots indicate the general location of the enemy but are not individual soldiers.


This message was last edited by the GM at 19:49, Sat 05 Dec 2009.

I need listed in order from left to right the PC's positions. Oskar to do his squad, and Ben to do his team.

For example...
Fox, Varis, Oskar, Rooke, Frank
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:08, Sat 05 Dec 2009.

Does Mitch have any idea where the KPV fire that hit the M113 came from?  Even if it's just from the front or the left?

Yes. He can see the top of the hull down vehicle (mostly just the turret). The vegetation will make it count as a obscured target though... same goes for when it shoots at you.
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:06, Sat 05 Dec 2009.

Ah - so it's from the BTR-60 that's marked on the map?

Yes. I wrote BTR60 but it could just as well be a BRDM-2 as you can't really see the hull and both have similar KPV turrets. It's not the same vehicle Kaminski spotted near the breach - which was a BRDM-2 variant.
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:05, Sat 05 Dec 2009.

At present Mitch doesn't give a monkeys which type of APC it is as long as someone starts shooting at it - even if all they succeed in doing is drawing its fire away from the M113! <G>

Just to say that I (Mahatatain) offered to help out Fusilier with the number of NPCs that he has to handle and so I'm playing Rooke as well as Mitch for the duration of this battle.

Hope that's ok.

Mahatatain

EDIT: I've also fleshed out the background the original player had put together and included it in the character description.
This message was last edited by the player at 13:32, Sun 06 Dec 2009.

Left to right is Young, Ben, Mike.a suggested layout for Volodya's section is above - use or ignore, your choice.

Can't see too well on my blackberry screen, but there appears to be a significant gap between Mike and 2 section to his right. Is that the Bradley in there as well?

In reply to Ben Jagelis (msg #109):
Hit the blackberry button -> select mode -> full image. Really helps on my blackberry. Anyway yes the bradley is off of mikes right

I do that usually, but the screen being half the size of your palm compared to the rather massive screen on my computer.....

That big gap is just a visual error on the map only.
Yes, the Bradley has moved up from its rear position.

Young - Ben - Mike (ok, thank you).

If Fox isn’t carrying the M-60 are the two 7.62mmN belts that Rooke is carrying actually for the M240 that Oskar is using?

If I'm correct, the firing port has awful visibility and from where Kaminski is seated can only shoot out the right side and not the front (unless he pops out the top) ?

Also does the BTR-70s IR and NV sights for the Driver and Commander work?
This message was last edited by the player at 15:09, Sun 06 Dec 2009.

Oops.  Yeah, I think we need a second to sort out this crap:

Rooke is carrying spare belts for the M240.

What is Varis carrying?

Maybe Varis is carrying the tripod?  Or if necessary Varis can be carrying the spare belts and we can do a quick tweak and Rooke can be carrying the tripod rather than the belts.

Varis is likely carrying nothing more than he's already listed since he's previously mentioned that it was enough without slowing him down further. The tripod isn't very practical when on the offensive like you are anyways.

As Fox has the RPG/SMG as instructed, you've got one GPMG with the 5 man squad (Oksar's M240), and Rooke is carrying the spare ammo for it.

Oskar (M240 GPMG)
Rooke (L85A2 + GPMG ammo)

Varis (AK/BG15 w/many grenades)
Frank (M16/203 w/many grenades)

Fox (SMG/RPG-16)

Here are some pictures of the interior. I would say at this point, that Kaminski needs to pop out the top hatch to fire from his position. However, the KPV would be right next to you, so he'd probably never hear anything again. There are no commander's firing ports, only a couple in the passenger compartment.

The night vision is basic IR, and doesn't do you any good in the day (its not thermal like the Bradley). For the day you have three vision blocks and the TPKU-2B periscope (pictured). The gunner has a different magnified sight for the gun (which the commander cannot use).

http://yfrog.com/jm1146jx

Here you can see the commander's position relative to the KPV turret, and the lack of firing ports for the crew.

This message was last edited by the GM at 18:17, Sun 06 Dec 2009.

Right on.  Thanks.

In reply to Oskar Friedmann (msg #119):

Oskar - I think that you should quickly change where Rooke is in the line as he's bound to be next to Oskar as he's effectively Oskar's loader.  Do you agree?

How about:

Varis - Fox - Friedmann - Rooke - Benucci

That puts a GL on each end, Oskar in the middle to coordinate and as the central concentration of firepower and Frank (as 2ic) on the right hand side closest to the Platoon HQ.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:54, Sun 06 Dec 2009.

LOL - Mitch's thought pattern but in reverse!

Just to clarify one outstanding question - on the Comms thread Rooke is listed with a question mark regarding a personal radio - he doesn't have one.

I'm going to try and catch up on posts tonight.

Thanks for that, I'll update it.

Some sources show that the commander has a firing port, some show they don't. Some imply that his windshield folds down allowing a weapon to be fired through it, but all information I've come across seems to show the glass is fixed in place and only the armoured shutter moves.

I don't think it was mentioned specifically IC since the O group, but Fox could have taken either the RPG/MP-5 or the M60 (both if he's feeling Ramboesk). It's Oskar's call as section commander, but he was to carry either option as a base (anything over that is up to the PC). Again it wasn't mentioned IC, but as there's several disposable launchers being carried in 1 Section, the RPG isn't absolutely vital. Once these have been used up on the other hand....(although we might look at shuffling things around as other characters use up some of their munitions and reduce weight).

A spare set of webbing has been loaded into the M113 for Fox for either the M60 or RPG/SMG so all he need do is swap one set for the other instead of emptying and reolading pouches, etc.

Don't worry - I think next time they'll just have to be more than one throwaway complaint post and something a little more detailed is all.  I think a better outfit would've ditched the machineguns except for Oskar's (since he can still carry it) and had everyone with whatever their preferred rifle was, a grenade launcher and antitank rocket.  We're slogging too much shit that's useless in this situation and the loadout you just laid out above seems very close to the loadout that I was trying to get the squad to go with before we reverted.

I think we're on basically the same page then, just a few minor differences. As long as we can maximise firepower while still remaining flexible enough to counter both armoured and infantry threats, we should do ok.


He's not. Some of those grenades needed to be handed to Volodya for use in his BG-15. You can decide how many is "fair" but remember, Volodya has the only grenade launcher in his section (compared to three I think in 1 section).

Turn post is up. I made an error with keeping track of the gang members, so you actually get one more extra rifleman.

2 Squad
#1 Volodya BG15 (Leg Slight)
#2 Goon RPD (Leg Slight)
#3 Goon RPK-74
#4 Goon RPK-74
#5 Goon RPG-7+3
#7 Goon AK
#8 Goon RPK-74 (KIA - headshot)
#10 Goon AK (KIA - chestwound)
#11 Goon AK (Fled)

Mortar
#6 Goon (wounded)
#9 Goon (wounded)
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:46, Mon 07 Dec 2009.

FUCK U VARIS I GET THE KILLS I FUCKING QUIT THIS IS BULLSHIT

YOU GOT PWNED! VARIS RULZ!

*sob*

Firstly - oh shit, we're in trouble!  Mitch's first time in charge of the M113 and it's knackered almost immediately!

Secondly - am I correct in assuming that it's the right hand track?

Lastly you normally add a ammo expenditure at the end of the turn post.  Am I correct that Mitch fired 25 rounds and Rooke fired 5 as intended?

EDIT: Also what is the maximum rate of fire of the M2HB?  The game listed ROF is 5 but can Mitch fire 10 rounds bursts for each of those five "shots"?
This message was last edited by the player at 16:54, Mon 07 Dec 2009.

Yes. Right side. At the moment the KPV can only engage the front of the M113... and since it can't penetrate the front, it leaves the tracks and .50 turret (you) as vulnerable areas.

Yes. I take care of the .50 ammo but you do Rooke personal ammo (5 rounds so far).

Simply put you can fire up to 25 rounds in total. The '5' means how many rounds are in a single burst of which you can fire 5 times.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:59, Mon 07 Dec 2009.

Thanks - so with his M249 SAW Mitch can fire five 10 round bursts as the ROF is 10?

In reply to Robert Mitchell (msg #133):

Yes.

I'll get a new map up tomorrow, but you can probably figure out the changes until then... you are closer to the enemy.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:30, Mon 07 Dec 2009.

But not moving much further! <G>

Rooke has just been given an order by Oskar but has already declared his actions for this round - is he allowed to change his action or will he have to wait until next round to follow the instructions?

Next round please.


I forgot about the grenades. Voloyda was asking for six of them.

Varis likes him, so Volodya can have them. Hopefully, he's not to badly hurt to make use of them. That leaves 14 for Varis to blow stuff up with.

If Oskar's making a run across the road to the west, Varis will stay in his current position and support him by fire. Grenade #2 is therefore dedicated to any troop concentrations or automatic weapons in or around the pharmacy. I'll edit his IC post to reflect this.

Vaya con Dios, Oksar...

It would be so much more awesome on a motorcycle.

LOL

Is this said to Mitch or Jordan (who might well be moving to the M60 in the rear of the M113 to fire it at the pharmacy)?  I'm guessing Mitch but I just want to be certain.
This message was last edited by the player at 09:53, Tue 08 Dec 2009.

Oskar must first put rusty machette blades on the sides of the wheels. Get all Roman and Gladiatorial.

Mitch, but you're the track commander, so you can always tell Jordan to do something.

I'm assuming that, from talking to Henry while prepping the M113, Mitch has gathered that Henry isn't very experienced at shooting personal firearms?

Quite. He hasn't done much since being drafted but drive.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:33, Tue 08 Dec 2009.

In reply to Henry Jordan (msg #145):

The machineguns aren't really intended to be all that accurate, just supress the enemy while other infantrymen close with them and kill.

Mitch would disagree with that - he can be really quite accurate with a machinegun!

Are you kidding?  Roman?  No.

MORE DAKKA.  MORE DAKKA!

Shhhh, you'll make Jordan feel inadequate!

GM, is it correct that Young is now free to get off the radio (unless corrections are needed)?
This message was last edited by the player at 17:02, Wed 09 Dec 2009.

Yes. You can do whatever you want with him this turn, and following the impact, either make corrections or continue doing whatever.

Map coming soon.

In reply to Fusilier (msg #151):

Will post for Frank later this evening

I can pretty much visualize everything that happened in the last round but I want to be sure before posting again. I'll post as soon as I get a look at the updated map. Varis' priority will be to support the attack on the pharmacy area. The map will help me decide how best to do this.

I'm particularly interested in locating that damned enemy KPV.

Hang tight Oskar & Frank.

P.S. Frank, some covering fire would be much appreciated.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:32, Thu 10 Dec 2009.

How badly wounded is Mitch?  From the description I'm assuming it's relatively minor but I'm wondering if I should note something on his character sheet?

I could also do with an updated map to be certain that I understand the current situation.

I'm trying to get to it.  I was going to start that but, once he saw the RPG team pop up and knows where it is, that's where I'm thinking of going for next move.

No worries. You do what you think is best. Varis will do the same. I'm pretty much metagaming as it is. Sorry!

Not a problem.  I'm going back over the posts to see if there's anything that I missed before I post.

That should be M60. The PKM is still mounted on the UAZ back with the mortar.

Scratch.

Frank, are you firing the 40mm or the rifle?
This message was last edited by the GM at 09:52, Thu 10 Dec 2009.

If Fox has taken the M60 then Mitch will just tell Jordan to get his M4 Carbine.  (It might be a good idea for him to spend some of his XP on Small Arms if he's a really bad shot! <G>)

Let me know and I'll amend Mitch's post accordingly.




Thanks for this and for the map.

Also please can you mark on the map where the smoke grenade that Ben threw is centred and where the enemy RPG team is?

Lastly I'm slightly confused where Oskar wanted Rooke to throw his smoke grenade.  I think that it was NW of Rooke's position to obscure Oskar from fire to the north as he charges towards the pharmacy but please can someone correct me if I'm wrong.
This message was last edited by the player at 09:49, Thu 10 Dec 2009.

Yeah I'm trying not to Meta-game, thus haven't told Volodya and the injured men to fire on the factory. He CAN askew my orders though... :P

In reply to Robert Mitchell (msg #160):

Fox is taking the M60. I believe that Oskar wants the smoke between him and the pharmacy. That might be a bit of a throw though, now that I look at the map.
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:54, Fri 11 Dec 2009.

Thanks for the revised map and the confirmation about Fox - I'll edit Mitch's instructions to Jordan.

Rooke will just have to try for a long throw and see what happens! <G>

So the BDRM that was spotted on the approach as clearly moved around the far corner or fucked off completely as we can't see it (assuming we can see around the corner now.) ?

creepy.

Maybe they're trying to get what little armour they have around behind our limited mechanised forces!

Then I hope to hear Volodya shout on the radio soooooon..

That's actually kinda goods new he is able to position the RPD and RPG to put fire on that factory. They'll be at our 5 oclock which is a decent spot to cover our rear.

hi guys; I'm back. I will gladly jump in where I am needed or where most appropriate.

In reply to George Rawlinson (msg #167):
Ok, great. Glad everything worked out.

George is currently detached from the party at the moment, so if you can bear with it for a couple turns, I'll come up with something to get him back with the team. In the meantime, you can take over an NPC if you'd like... a couple of the players are doing that at the moment. Just let me know.
This message was last edited by the GM at 10:20, Sat 12 Dec 2009.

I'm anticipating not being able to get the turn post up tonight as expected. Sorry about that. If this is the case, tomorrow for sure.

In reply to Fusilier (msg #169):

No worries - I've got a bit of a manic weekend coming up myself so might not be able to post until Sunday evening UK time.

If you'd maybe like me to take over a gang member or someone like that--is anyone playing Volodya?

Volodya is ok. He's just got shot in the leg (slight), but is otherwise still in action.

Background: Moldavian (Soviet Airborne in Afghanistan), prison, mafia.
Gear: AK74/BG-15 combo (6 40mm HE) + a short range radio.

While on the advance (the party's current attack), he got hit while running behind the BTR. The rest of the squad kept going, and by now Volodya has recovered/first aid enough to catch up.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:42, Sat 12 Dec 2009.

"Voloyda, they're breaking. Main group keep pushing forward. Be advised for enemy infantry from the right. Have RPD and RPG target incoming fire at the factory to the right. Give them hell. Four-Zero, over."

those were his last orders. i didn't want to meta game HIM and the other injured guy be the one to lay down fire on that factory (Kaminski has no idea whose injured or dead)

Fusilier - is Fox just setting up the M60 at the back of the M113 and firing at the pharmacy?  He's in front of Mitch and Mitch's decision on what to do is partially dictacted by what Fox does.

Thanks.

In reply to Robert Mitchell (msg #175):

He was going to move up to Rooke and then determine if he should support Oskar's flanking or continue onto the main objective. Fox doesn't have full situational awareness at the moment (distractions from being hit and being in the back of the M113) - which is why he's moving up to Rooke first.

Also, as track commander Mitch has full control of Henry.

OK - thanks - I assume that Fox has enough sense to go up the right hand side of the M113 and use it as cover from the pharmacy? <G>
This message was last edited by the player at 14:44, Sat 12 Dec 2009.

Frank is going to wait for another round until the smoke grenade has a chance to work a little better before moving to Oskar & Varis.  In the mean time, two questions before I post please:

1). Is the M-113 APC on fore or is just the track off making it immobile?

2). From Frank's position at the back of the M-113 APC, can he see any fire coming in from anywhere specific towards where he intends to move toward Oskar & Varis?

I don't think that the M113 is on fire - it's just lost a track and the .50Cal is smashed.

Also I think that the map shows Frank at the front of the M113 next to Rooke and not at the back.

In reply to Francis 'Frank' Benucci (msg #178):

1. No. As far as you know its only lost a track and its armament.

2. Not specific. The only fire is from the inside of the pharmacy, but further back from the windows - and the RPG team in the parking lot out front.


Correct as well.
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:26, Sat 12 Dec 2009.

OK, just making sure it wasn't...

OK, not sure of that either.  thinking cap hasn't been on to straight the past couple of days...

Am I correct in interpreting that both Catchings and Youngs shots hit the original GPMG gunner, and the assistent remained unharmed? Or did Catchings shots strike the gunner, with Youngs headshot hitting the new gunner?

In reply to Mike Catchings (msg #182):

Yes. Only the gunner was hit.

Sorry everyone, I have to put up the turn post tomorrow. Its exam time and I've got to get everyone's books and classwork marked. I'm totally swamped tonight. I know its another delayed post on my part, but I ought to be in the clear soon.

In reply to Fusilier (msg #184):

No worries - it also gives those that haven't been able to post this turn a chance to catch up!  Personally I find the lead up to Christmas is a massive drain on my free time - my workload reduces but the amount of social commitments goes up loads.  Luckily most of them are events that I actually want to go to!

I'm being crushed by work - I may not get a post up in time.  NPC if necessary, and make sure Varis gets shot first.

ARGH! I can't believe the workload!

It's supposed to slow down leading up to Christmas, but nooooooo, everyone wants to complete everything beforehand making my life damn busy!

I feel your pain. Projects and midterms to grade and record, quizzes to record... Just think about the break.

Handle your Handle there!

Yeah right. One day. It's a Buddhist country so Christmas holidays don't exist for me... although the school is nice enough to give me and the other western teachers the 25th off. New Years is the only break this time of year for me.

Anyways, I've finished about half of the turn and will get it up after work.

I intend to get a post in shortly.

It appears that I'm the only one who's work calms down before Christmas!

I'll just sit hear feeling guilty! <G>

Every other year I've been sitting about twiddling my thumbs, but this year it seems everyone wants to tidy up all the loose ends first!

Don't be too hard on Mitch for leaving the M113 - it had been zeroed by the KPV when he made the decision and though I (as a player) know that the KPV has been knocked out/forced to withdraw (as Ben can see) there is no way that Mitch would know that and having him pop back up through one of the M113 hatches to use it as a firing platform would have reeked of metagaming......

I can understand his actions - he is infantry first and vehicle crew second.
However, the M113 even disarmed is a hell of a well protected position with radios and hand held weapons. Makes a good observation platform too.
Essentially it's a ready made and fitted out fighting position with all the mod cons.

In reply to Ben Jagelis (msg #195):

Agreed on that but when it's being shot to pieces by a KPV it's a less attractive location! <G>

As far as I am aware, the only damage it has suffered is to the relatively fragile suspension, and the exposed fifty cal. I'm unsure if any rounds penetrated the gunshield but I'm fairly sure nothing has penetrated the hull.
Comparing the weapon and vehicle stats, there's no way the KPV can penetrate the frontal armour (which I think is facing the KPV).

Which is the only reason why Henry is still breathing.

In reply to Ben Jagelis (msg #197):

Ah but Mitch doesn't know the game stats of the M113 and a KPV! <G>

And though it may say in some manual that the armour on a M113 won't be penetrated by a 14.5mm round would you really trust it saying that?  Particularly in a M113 that's not in mint condition?

Put it this way if you were in an APC that had been imobilisied, had it's main armament knocked out and was obviously zeroed by an enemy gunner would you really stick your head back up through a hatch to bring another weapon to bare?

That sounds like easy pickings to me and is why Mitch chose to move.

Now if he had been aware that the KPV had been knocked out/forced to withdraw then it would be a different case entirely but Mitch doesn't know that.

Ok, post is up and a map will be shortly. Its pretty much a done deal at this point... you guys have a lot of firepower.
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:21, Tue 15 Dec 2009.

We're winning - good news! <G>

A couple of quick questions:

How many rounds did Mitch fire?

Am I correct that Rooke has spotted and aimed at a target but not yet fired?

1. 40 rounds fired.
2. Correct. I interpreted your post as wanting to aim first (which takes a turn).
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:59, Tue 15 Dec 2009.

In reply to Fusilier (msg #202):

Thanks for this - that's what Rooke wanted to do.

Am I correct that Mitch has never seen the RPG team, though he is aware that one was fired at the M113?

In reply to Robert Mitchell (msg #204):

Correct.

Is the deafening rocking boom bad? or just the obstructions being turned up and about?

Ouch. Sorry, man. I assumed it was an international school with western-style breaks. When I was a high school student living in Uruguay, we had our summer break during the Christian holiday season.

I don't know what I would do if I didn't get the next two weeks off. Hang in there, man.

BTW, I'm going through some stuff right now so I may not be able to post IC for the next few days. If need be, please NPC Varis. Thanks!

It's an explosion on the outside of the hull near the front bottom.



Thanks. Yeah, no problem.

With the holidays nearing we might want to think about pausing for a bit. What do you guys think is needed? What kind of time frame?

Why not!?  ;)

After several years of combat, it's a fairly good bet most characters will have at lease a passing familiarity with that sort of battle damage and the weapon's capabilities.

Back when I was in the infantry, there was a rumour that a 7.62 could penetrate the side armour of the M113. Personally I don't really believe it, or if it did manage to penetrate, the rounds energy would be virtually spent and cause little more than a few scratches etc to whatever was inside.

The gun mounting and it's attached weapon shield are still in working order I believe, therefore, there's nothing wrong with using it's 2 points of armour as cover and firing off to the side (point the .50 cal forward while firing handheld weapons to the side or rear).

This allows much better protection than being out on the ground with only the occasional bit of rubble, tree trunk, etc to hide behind. Being up high also allows for a better view of the battlefield.

On the other side of the equation, it is a bit of a magnet for antiarmour weapons, however that's probably not much of a problem in the current situation. Admittedly the KPV was hammering down, but the chances of it hitting the gunshield again - the only place it could really damage anything - through the growing smoke while also under fire from mortars and potentially the M2 and BTR, has to be relatively minor.

So just to be clear we're going to continue advancing right?

of course. this is just the tickle.

but I think our 'advance' is more like a long hook south and then loop back to HQ right?

Once the local area is secured, we need to concentrate on getting the M113 mobile again. This will probably require deploying the infantry defensively around the area with the two operation AFVs in support while mechanics get the track back on.

The .50 cal is of secondary concern but I'm thinking that if it's toast, swapping it out with the M60.

Argh! REALLY need an updated map to post.

Do you need to take a break Fus?

Not at the moment, although I may be a little slow and unable to give it my best.

To be honest I'm a little disappointed with this "battle". It just wasn't what I was originally hoping for (my fault entirely). In the next one, I'd like it to be close quarter fighting with a little more excitement and individual decision making. However I'm having trouble thinking up ways to keep everyone involved in that (vehicle guys I mean) and at the same time using a setting we haven't used yet - sewers, a large factory, etc. I have lots of ideas... its just hard getting them to work with current life distractions right now.

As far as pausing for the holidays I'm prepared to let the players make whatever decision you agree to... I can play though, pause for a day or two, or pause for longer.

Re: Map. Yeah, I had to rush the turn post and let it slip. I'll get the latest update posted once I get home from work. For sure this time.

I'll still be able to play on holidays, as unlike some poor souls, I do get a break.  But I can go along with a break if that's the consensus.




In other news, so is the battle over?

Firstly do we have time to repair the M113?  How long does it take to repair a track?  If it's just a damaged link that can be removed and the track shortened then that's reasonably quick isn't it?  (assuming that we brought the tools with us)

With the machinegun the wear value on the M60 wasn't good so it might be a better idea to replace it with another machinegun, possibly just Mitch's SAW (assuming that he's staying in command of the M113).

Fusilier - do you want us to continue with combat turn type posts or shift to more narrative?

Shift to narrative. But I'd like Oskar's team to be specific in their next actions.

if we have a time schedule to keep shouldn't we just ditch it and try to salvage it after the battle? Pile ontop of the M2 and the BTR like an African Taxi :P

To be honest I'm a little disappointed with this "battle". It just wasn't what I was originally hoping for (my fault entirely). In the next one, I'd like it to be close quarter fighting with a little more excitement and individual decision making. However I'm having trouble thinking up ways to keep everyone involved in that (vehicle guys I mean) and at the same time using a setting we haven't used yet - sewers, a large factory, etc. I have lots of ideas... its just hard getting them to work with current life distractions right now.

I can see where you're coming from on this, I know I picked a plan that tried to involve everyone when I'd have prefered to use just the vehicles to more effect. I'd suggest that if you have a really nice close quarters set piece in mind that you don't try to involve all the characters, just all the players.

One of the reasons I asked for the NPC dismounts was to have an NPC pool. All we need is a reason to send the dismounts into close combat and I'd suggest we leave the vehicles and their crews outside and anyone like me who is relatively tied to a vehicle takes an NPC on for the encounter.

If we were doing that, I'd prefer the plot protection of not going out to the vehicles destroyed and the PCs massacred, but in the end, that's the way the cookie crumbles.

What does everyone else think? I'd rather have fun in a good story than just stick slavishly with one character, but I realise that other views may differ.

In reply to John Jameson McCarthy (msg #221):

You're describing the exact reason why I offered to play an NPC as well as Mitch (and ended up playing Rooke for this battle as well) - the problem with the vehicles is that they end up forcing characters to stay with them and so a pool of NPCs to either crew them or be taken over as dismounts would make sense to me as it prevents people from being left out of the action.

With Fox now wounded (I'm not sure of the extent of that wound to be honest) it might be best to put him in charge of the M113 (assuming we have the time & tools to fix the track) with Jordan driving.  That makes the M113 an NPC only crew and frees up Mitch to be a dismount, with the result that Rooke becomes available for someone else to play temporarily besides myself (and he will be a lot of fun as he's a very very good shot!).

It wasn't a bad fight at all, Fuse. Don't worry about it.

My only issue was trying to coordinate posts with the squad's fearless leader (Oskar). Chalk it up to the fog of war!

Not sure what to do now. We don't want to get too far from the vehicles. Best bet would be to stay put and hold the left flank while the M113's track is repaired and then play it from there. It sounds like the BTR might be damaged too?

I get two weeks off for the winter break starting Sat. so I am fine with playing through the holidays. I understand that may not be the case for everyone so if we need to pause, that's cool too.

I was trying to keep it interesting for me.  :)

tbh I just want to play one character. I sorta RP Otto as it is which is fine as he's like a walking Gorilla.

IMO Fus: I thought it went fine. When theirs no maps or things don't get posted quick or left out as Varis said "it's the fog of war"

I do think that we have too many NPC's and characters though. I think the dead weight should get killed off since half of the team are NPC's that regularly go along w/ the group. But that's just me.

Other than that I'm really happy w/ this game and w/ how things are going Fus.

Can we tell where the blood trail leads to?

It was a good battle. A little more communication between groups would have been nice, but overall it went well.

We need the M113, not just to carry troops, but for the equipment it's carrying.
If it's just the track, it should be quicker to repair that than transfer everything into the other vehicles. We also don't have enough space to carry everyone in just the BTR and Bradley.

As this engagement was essentially all over in just a minute or so, we still have plenty of time to repair, reorganise and move on to the main objective. Best if we just get on with it.

Thanks for the OOC and PM feedback everyone. The points are noted and I think in all cases I agree.

For the holidays, briefly looking over the replies, everyone seems ok with playing through without much of a break. Correct? This is how we did it last year... I think we paused for three or four days or something like that, and then on New Years. I'll hold off making a decision now to give everyone some more time to think about it.


No, not really, unless you want to try someone's tracking skills and make a task of it. There isn't very much.

Oskar was just about to do that.

Just to say that I don't anticipate any problems posting over the holiday period.  I might well get some grief from my wife for sitting at a computer but that's my problem not yours! <G>

Who (Oskar, Varis, or Frank) has a radio?

Edit - looking over your PC sheets, it seems Oskar is the only one.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:51, Mon 21 Dec 2009.

Oskar tried to give it to Varis but Varis gave it back. So, Oskar should have it.

I'm going off on holiday vacation starting tomorrow.  I expect to have time to post, but it will be intermittent and entirely unpredictable, and even possibly non-existent.

I return on Tuesday the 29th.

The Jew of this group would like to wish you heathens a very Merry Christmas

:)

(i'm avail to post on the holidays)

Frank has a radio in his gear (buttpack)...
This message was last edited by the player at 01:33, Tue 22 Dec 2009.

Speak for yourself.

Deuorius Riuri or bust.

Ok, thanks on the radios. I see the radio that Frank has now (overlooked).

For the holidays, I think most everyone has mentioned that they can either play through or with only the potential for disruptions. So I figure we should go for it and see how it goes - pausing if it becomes clear we need too which won't be a big deal.

...and if you look out the other side of the aircraft you will see the local resident atheist.

I've tried to keep the Comms post as up to date as possible re radios. Makes it easier on everyone if we know who's got one on them, who's hooked in while mounted in vehicles, and who can only be shouted at (or throw stones, what ever...)

What's the current time?

Fusilier - Rooke was was in the process of going to try and loot the two (hopefully) bodies he shot - has he moved out of hearing range before this order was issued? (he doesn't have a radio)
This message was last edited by the player at 12:56, Tue 22 Dec 2009.

I'm going to say no. Since everyone was just talking and not really involved with anything.


0655 hrs.

A rough time line of events

0600 move to release point
0620 arrive and o group
0630 depart for FEBA and conduct dismounted bottleneck (bridge) crossing
0640 dismount and advance to contact
0655 objective secured and consolidation underway

I know its too late, but anyways, here is a picture that shows the view from the direction of the wooded area towards the port facilities under attack on your right. Here you can see the brick wall I spoke of where there is a forced breach with some enemy deployed to protect it.


This message was last edited by the GM at 15:18, Tue 22 Dec 2009.

So we've still got about 35 minutes until we're supposed to have moved on....

Would having two teams, one to a track, speed the M113 repairs?

NOTE!
Ben ordered the M113 security to be NO closer than a dozen metres. In other words, spread out so that if an RPG hits the APC, everyone who's not working on it is outside the blast radius.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:31, Wed 23 Dec 2009.

No, to clarify - that time estimate is to fix the severed track (right side) and replace it on the vehicle. It doesn't include the left hand track as you can still drive on it, just at a reduced speed.

I'd agree, but Pearce indicated a counter attack was brewing. Oskar's team already bumped into a group we didn't know about. We should take that as a hint we're going to get hammered. I can't imagine changing a broken tread while under attack from 2 or three directions supported by mortars.

I think we should cut our losses like JJ said, before we lose much worse.

I've lost track of it in the discussions but wasn't Fox wounded?  He seems to be carrying on like it's just a scratch but at the time I thought that it was much more serious.

Fox is wounded and has thus far been carrying on like its a scratch. He hasn't been inspected yet however. Neither has Volodya or the Ukrainian.

Fuse, how far off does Varis judge the voices to be? Thanks.

About 2 houses down to the right.

We can't.

Without the M113, we don't have enough carrying capacity to take everyone. We have 18 infantry/passengers and only space for 14 in the BTR+M2 plus about 500kg of very important combat stores currently loaded aboard the M113.

IF JJ wants to move onward, Ben will be staying with the M113 to get it repaired. Hopefully there'll be a few more willing to keep him company.

As we have 35 minutes remaining before we need to move, I suggest using that time. Who knows, we might get an outstanding success on the mechanic role and cut the time down.

Defensively, we should do fairly well. We can deploy claymores, etc in a matter of a few minutes, prepare shell scrapes (shallow holes to fight from and avoid shrapnel), site machineguns and so on. We could also potentially launch as spoiling attack of our own on the suspected enemy counter attack.

All in all, I don't see our position to be all that bad. It just takes a little effective leadership and willingness to stand and fight instead of running at the first sign of difficulty.

I was wrong.

We don't have 35 minutes to complete this phase. We have 50 - nearly the hour we need.

All that has to be done is defend against what can be presumed as approximately one company of the 72nd MRR.

As we have two operational AFVs, plus the advantage of mortars and defending, we should be able to pull it off while at the same time dealing the Soviet assault in the north west of the city a SERIOUS blow.

We might have to face another company or two, but these are unlikely to arrive in time to directly support the initial attack.


Here's something funny. I'm playing about in Goggle Earth and noted the M113 is actually in dead ground to the buildings the KPV fired from. Technically if anything was going to be hit, it would only have been the gunshield!

Of course that's not really the way it played out, so...

Seems there's a T-34 a couple of hundred metres up the road too!
http://mw2.google.com/mw-panor.../medium/15329962.jpg
This message was last edited by the player at 06:25, Thu 24 Dec 2009.

I'm confused on the timings - aren't we supposed to be somewhere else fairly soon rather than just leaving the current position in an hour or so?

I'm not sure if we have 35 or 50 mins but irrespective of that aren't we supposed to be somewhere else at that point in time rather than just leaving?

We were supposed to be finished with our current task by 0745 and move to attack and enemy force assaulting a position about a kilometre away.
The time is currently 0655 therefore we've still got nearly an hour before we were expected to move.
Admittedly the enemy is responding to our presence, but that's why we brought claymores and other mines, shovels and tripods for the machineguns with us. Given ten minutes to prepare, we can hold off a hundred enemy troops sucessfully.

I was about to post something about how command was hard and the LT was forced to suffer all kinds of BS from every peanut gallery in the theater, but seriously?  Digging in here?

That's... awesome.  Oskar whole-heartedly endorses this new line of thinking.  They have mortars too though, so keep that in mind.  :)

{Private to GM:

Oskar commands his squad to move into the brush to the west, south of the residential neighborhood, and to keep going.]

OK, we've come to a point where a major decision will need to be made. I suggest that we make a simple vote on it and then JJ, as commanding officer will issue the orders.

The issue is do we stay and repair the M113 or do we leave and contine with the mission.

Leg has put the case for remaining at the M113 however I feel we should move on the reasons for this are:
1) We need to spoil the enemy attack therefore doing that is our main objective, nothing else.
2) More enemy forces are coming and we suspect that there is at least one ATGM carrying vehicle nearby not to mention the FIST team that may or may not be calling our co-ordinates in. We could probably fight off an infantry attack or some light mechanised vehicles, however I don't know how we'd fare against an artillery bombardment.

However, I'm willing to go with the majority.

Hopefully if we vote quickly, we can get on with the game.

My vote: Continue the mission and abandon the M113.

I'm down for staying around.  Also, I'm a little annoyed that I don't have my motorcycle.  'Cause, you know.  Just because.

In reply to John Jameson McCarthy (msg #254):

Just to say, I supported JJM's decision to ask for an OOC vote - so please cast your decision as quickly as possible. I'm probably not going to move the turn until a majority is in.

Go.

Stick around for awhile longer

Stick around long enough to get the main bits of gear out of the M113 and into the other APCs and then continue with the mission, with people riding on the outside of the vehicles if necessary.

I vote GO. We took the current position by a platoon-level combined arms attack. What's to say the Soviets can't do the same (and I reckon they have more men...)? Let's button up the Gavin as much as possible, hastily rig some obvious booby traps on and around it and move on. Or call for some friendly militia to come and guard it for us and move on. Or both. And move on.

BTW, happy holidays folks!
This message was last edited by the player at 19:08, Thu 24 Dec 2009.

Would it be possible to tow it to a safer position closer to friendly lines where we could come back for it later?

Normally I'd say strip it and go, however Mike is going to have 3 seperate casualties to deal with, of unknown, probably moderate severity. That's not going to be dealt with quickly or easily. Treatment would go smoother and faster in a stationary position, and not while bouncing around inside an overcrowded armored vehicle.  I vote stay if you want Fox, Volodya, and the Ukrainian to be alright.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:40, Thu 24 Dec 2009.

Merry Christmas!

Merry christmas to all christians, jews, atheists, fusiliers and others.

Stay for an hour to fix that stupid M113; Send the BTR up on the hill in the meantime and a squad forward a bit more (say 3-500m to see whats there and spot for us (and to lay claymores on their route in.

This way we can see form the spotters and high ground if we should GTFO b4 they reach the contact point...

so I'm sorta both.. Go and Stay..

Whatever.

Eight votes in, it's close at the moment so I'd urge everyone else to get in quick. Obviously the season will slow things down and our beloved GM can decide if he thinks this is taking too long.

As has been mentioned previously, we have almost 500 kilograms - half a tonne of very valuable and useful stores in the M113. This would likely take approximately 20 minutes by most of our personnel just to unload and toss randomly into the Bradley and BTR, which would result in about half our infantry having to walk (there's NO WAY you'd get me riding on the outside of an AFV in an active combat zone!)

Packing it all in neatly is likely to at least double that time and require at least 2, probably 4 people. Both vehicles would be out of action for the duration.

Much of the M113 stores is not easily transferable as it's not neatly packed away in crates and boxes. For example there are 25 magazines of various sizes and calibres, 27 belts of 3 different calibres, 7 rifles & SMGs, 20 grenades, 11 AT rounds, 46 mines (yes, that's right, 46), our only Chem sniffer and geiger counter, approx 2 dozen flares, 95% of our medical supplies, and a nearly full tank of 360 litres of fuel we've nothing to put in. There is more, but you get the idea....


Yes we did, against a widely dispersed enemy armed with little more than small arms and backed up with a heavy machinegun armed AFV (which was quickly dispatched).

The course of action Ben is following, concentrates our force within an area aproximately 75 metres in diameter and includes 2 well armed, mobile and protected AFVs. Our troops are HEAVILY armed with two machineguns (both intended to be tripod mounted), 8 grenade launchers, 8 automatic rifles/light machineguns, and virtually every man with an AT rocket. And of course we have pre-registered mortar support with an ample supply of HE and limited WP.
The 46 mines mentioned above might also come into play given enough time (6 claymores already ordered deployed).


Technically, yes. I've looked over the maintainence and operations manuals for the M113 (http://www.tpub.com/content/op...-2350-277-100456.htm) and it's mentioned in there that a vehicle of the same or heavier weight can tow it even without a track. It's slow and dangerous however and not normally advised. We would only need to tow it 300-400 metres to be behind allied lines.

The problem with that though is time. It takes time to hook up, the towing can only be down at a walking pace, and then we still need to carry out the repairs all while the clock is ticking to be commencing the next phase of our mission (relieving pressure on Nowe Ogrody by engaging units headed to that location).


Casualties are another factor. Lightly wounded will require little more than a bandage and some painkillers, but more seriously injured might require stretcher space. Each stretcher case could be considered as taking the space of at least two able bodied passengers, and I'm fairly sure neither the Bradley nor BTR are configured internally to support this (as far as I'm aware, only the M113 has an open arrangement while the other two have seats in the way and I'd hate to try fitting a stretcher through the BTR hatches!)

This could be another option but we're probably a bit short on manpower to pull it off safely.
We are exposed on three sides, but two of those sides have lovely open fire lanes (the highway to the south west and railway to the north east) which anyone who wants to live will never want to cross. Both of these substantial obstacles are about 100 metres of open ground which would allow quite a lot of well aimed shots at anyone crossing.

To the north west we have a low rise and scattered trees and scrub, while to the south east is where we came from and although there is some cover in that direction, all routes to it are covered by fire.

Looking SSE with a vertical exaggeration of x2 to show elevations more clearly.


Looking towards the west with a vertical exaggeration of x2.

Our mission was fairly simple:
Or, to simplify, "engage and destroy covering force. Intercept unit moving to reinforce assault on Nowe Ogrody."

The first half is effectively complete. Doesn't our presence where we are fullfill the latter half? Hasn't offensive action ceased in this area and been redirected towards us? It may not be exactly how the command envisaged, but it's getting the job done!

Looking at the two pictures above, you can see the ridgeline approximately a quarter of the way towards the BTR-60 from the M113. It's on this rise Ben wanted the northern perimeter and Mitchell to position himself (close to the road on the inland side).
The crest of this ridge appears to be about 20 metres from the M113.

We may be able to repel a Soviet assault but doing so could cause serious delays and I believe we are on the clock here.

Anyway, it looks like the "stay" folks have won the vote so I guess it's all moot. God bless democracy.

i think Ben has a hard on for the M113 and doesn't want to leave it

:P

I have a much more negative assesment of our situation:

1) We're sitting in the middle of one of five axis of advance by the enemy, with a battalion committed to each route. So we can expect anywhere from 150-300 men operating in your area with support which may include heavy armour.

2)There is also the enemy artillery to figure in, I know that Ben has dismissed it as a threat, but I feel we are still a potential target. We inflicted some serious damage by knocking out half of their artillery assets. We also represent the only real armor/mechanized force capable of counteroffensive type action in the city. To me this leaves us with carrying the burden of being a constant target, as Pearce has already pointed out. We might even be a target for the Hind if it's still operational. The temptation of taking out the defender's mobile unit in one sweep would be tempting to a military commander.

3)We'll very likely need to arrange yourself into an all around defense. At the moment the enemy can hit us from 3 sides (N, W, & E) but the south is pretty much open and controlled by nobody. We'll be in lightly forested cover (that splinters very well as Ben pointed out), against an enemy utilising buildings. We can try to dig in a little but the enemy are already probing us.

4) If we depoly in an all-round perimeter of about 75m as Ben suggests, we'll be plum targets for artillery, several 40 hex bursts on or near target will take us all out.

5)It can be assumed that we no longer can rely on the IB's 81mm mortar support since they won't be happy about the decision to delay the spoiling attack.

6) We have to fix the M113, defend our area and scout for potential attack all at once, we'll be spread really thinnly.

7) There's very little chance of pulling this off without risking both working vehicles and heavy casualties. People need to decide where the trade off is, how many people want to lose PCs to save the M113?

It definitely isn't a positive assessment on the situation, however we do have the great advantage PC's have over NPCs which is a strong factor. I also think we shouldn't rely on PC protection here, tactically it makes sense for the enemy to throw everything but the kitchen sink at us and by clustering around in an immobile target makes it easy for them. Expecting the GM not to annihilate us just because it ends the game is a big risk as well as quite cynical from a game point of view.

For the record, I'm with Mark/JJM. (Varis is too.)

Major is in charge, and didn't call for a vote ingame, so I say the final say is his.

I'm 'fine' with either option. Medically, it would be easier and more convenient staying put, but then again, so is not getting overwhelmed and surrounded.

I hope the vote helps the C/O make his decision.  Frank's in either way!

Firstly happy holidays to you all!  I think  that I just made it in time!

Secondly I would like to expand on my reasons for voting to leave the M113.

I think that the sensible tactical option is to grab the vital gear from the M113 and then destroy it and the remaining equipment inside it to deny it to the enemy.  Attempting to defend it while we change the track will, I believe, lead to loss of life on our side.

One part of our orders is not to get bogged down - taking an hour to repair a vehicle seems to be the definition of getting bogged down to me.

In addition the great variable that has been overlooked here is that Jordan said it will take him an hour to change a track.  Do people really believe that that assessment will be correct if the M113 is in the centre of a firefight?  Anyone exposing themselves while working on the track will become a focal target for enemy fire and I therefore would expect it to take longer than an hour to make the change.

Therefore I believe that the sensible course of action is to grab the vital gear and withdraw, abandoning the M113 and much of the gear inside it, probably blowing the whole lot up to deny it to the enemy (though someone suggested setting up a series of booby traps to ward people off and there is certain merit in that).

That said however I think that the most FUN option could be to stay and defend the M113.  It certainly has the potential to be a major firefight but one that I believe will result in at least one death on our side and could well end up with us being routed in disorder and fleeing with what we can carry having lost more than the M113 and most of the gear inside it.

It could be a hell of a lot of fun to play through though!  Personally if Mitch died then I would ask to continue with the game and would bring in a new character so I'm happy to take that risk.

Therefore, to summarise (and repeat) my vote on a tactical basis is to withdraw but if the vote is to stay then I'm happy to do so as I think that it will be one hell of a fight (and one that we might well loose).

So (in case I'm being stupid! <G>) Mitch is digging in about 20m north (ish) of the M113, using the ridgeline to provide some natural defence to the north?

I'm still voting for leaving, agreeing entirely with what Mitch and JJ said for the reasons why we should. If we are worried about vehicles and gear, then staying will probably mean losing another one, if not people's lives as well. What are we going to do when the BTR is added to the list of broken vehicles. Stay put permanently? The odds are too great in favor of the enemy regardless of our material assets.



I agree, although I think I understand why the player asked for a vote OOC. The problem with how it was done IG however is that now who's is to judge Young or anyone else ignoring/countering orders in the future. Young doesn't want to stay in the M113 like he's been told. He wants to move up and set himself up in the pumping station for early warning of enemy coming in from the north. We've always made a chain of command to be a part of our platoon in the past. Is it now do what you think is right regardless of orders? Or will we go democratic and every decision be put to a vote?

How about whoever wants to stay with the M113 does so? And everyone who wants to go does so as well. Whatever the decision is, I think it needs to be made now.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:29, Sat 26 Dec 2009.

It's one of the most lightly armoured and armed APCs in existance, but it is armour...
It's only suffered damage to the tracks which is repairable, and the main weapon can be replaced with another very easily.
Exactly! Is that what we were supposed to do in the next phase anyway, attack the enemy to relieve pressure on other areas?
Doesn't our continued presence achieve that with the added advantage of us being in a defended location with our rear covered by the militia?

The enemy artillery has been reduced to "2x 2S3 Akatsiya SPArty, 1x BM-21, and 1x B-4M 203mm towed gun" with ammunition "plentiful for the...BM-21 only." The D-30's they had have been eliminated.
All four guns are not what can be considered pinpoint weapons. The BM-21, the only one with a reasonable supply of ammunition is really only suitable for blanketing an area with HE and with the expected close ranges of around 100 metres, the enemy are likely to be within the scatter of rockets. The other three guns have only limited ammunition and a fire rate of 3-4 rounds per minute for the 2S3 and as few as 1 per minute for the 70 year old B-4M.
Some mortars may be available to the attacking force, but this is why Rooke has been ordered to position himself in the gutter at the highway edge, and Mitchell is digging in. All three vehicles carry excavation tools for the purpose of digging fighting positions and creating protection against artillery.

Our position is strong. The enemy can only effectively attack from one direction - from the north east through the bushes. As previously pointed out, the other three sides are open and flat with NO cover. Yes, there is light vegetation to the south east, but covering all the approaches to this area are militia forces, not to mention our own infantry should they be deployed as Ben wants. Access routes to this area also requires crossing either the highway or railway, just like a direct assault from anywhere but the north west.
We might not have a presence on the ground to our rear, however all approaches to this area are covered by fire and impossible to reach without the enemy suffering serious casualties in the attempt.

Shell scrapes can be dug in a few minutes and will largely eliminate shrapnel as a concern. It would take an exceptionally accurate shot to do as you suggest with blast alone, something that unless the enemy have an amazingly skilled FO, and superhuman gunner is not likely to occur on a first, second or even third shot. As they are rather short on ammo for their big guns, I can't see too many rounds after that being fired, especially as even the 203mm has next to no chance of destroying our vehicles without a direct hit (and even then we'd probably be able to drive the Bradley away once the crew were hosed out).

We don't need to attack!!! We're already achieving that aim by simply being here!
Why wouldn't the IB be happy with the result we've achieved? Not only have we caused the enemy assault to cease in this area, but caused the enemy to redeploy their reserves against us. We've done more than required, just by making our presence known.

Not as thinly as we would be by abandoning it. With two vehicles with insufficient capacity to carry all our troops, we loose a LOT of flexibility, flexibility we need to preserve since (currently) the BTR cannot move very fast. We also don't need to send out scouts. We know roughly where the enemy forces are and can deduce fairly accurately where they will come from. The M113 only requires 2-3 people to fix, Jordan being the prime mechanic, and will be assisted by Ben and Young, and possibly St Gil or JJ.
Jordan is nearly useless as an infantryman and both Young and Ben need to remain fairly central. There's no reason why the latter two can't work on the M113 if they're not required for their other rather intermittant duties.

Attack is always more risky than defence. If we were to follow the IB command's plan, we would be attacking with a significantly degraded force of just two extremely overloaded vehicles against what we can presume will be superior numbers. Here at least we can dig in, deploy claymores and use the terrain to our advantage.
We are a weak plattoon in strength with on the attack. In defence with a few minutes to prepare, we can hold off 4-5 times our number with relative ease. Yes we may well suffer some casualties, but less than we would if assaulting.

NOTE!!!
The enemy do not know the M113 is out of action! Some may have observed it being struck by the KPV and halting, but most, if not all enemy who were in position to observe have been killed.

We have only four kilograms of C4 available to us. Yes the mines do contain small amounts fo explosive, but they are all AP mines, not designed to inflict any real damage on a hard target. It is my professional opinion 4 kilos is insufficient to do more than disable the M113 and will not destroy the stores. (I was trained and operated as an Assault Pioneer in the infantry IRL). The M113 would still be repairable, or at the very least provide parts to the enemies vehicle(s) (at least one M577 has been observed in their possession).

Plans do not last beyond contact with the enemy. They must adapt to the changes in the situation such as has happened by the mobility hit on the M113, and the enemy's halt of offensive actions against prepared defences.

It is unlikely any engagement will take a full hour. Yes the time to repair may be more than an hour due to combat, however, if our goal of reducing pressure on the Nowe Ogrody outpost is achieved, will the delay really matter?
It is also possible to turn the M113 using the track on the right side which is still in place. The vehicle will pivot on the non-powered left road wheels and therefore the work can be done with the hull between the workers and the enemy. It will still be more dangerous than being in a shell scrape behind a machinegun, but that's why Ben will be assisting - he's not one to cower when there's a bit of risk.

Correct.

I'd be happy with young moving up into the pumping station, however worried he'd have little to no support should he get into trouble. His role as FO also requires him to be relatively central to enable him to respond with calls for fire support in any direction.

I should have been more clear in my "stay" vote.

At the operational level, our presence here invites a disproportionate response that is already playing hell with the attack.  We should say a prayer for the lost loot, spike it and move on - yes, by hanging onto the outside of the vehicles and just getting to the next objective.  However, that's not to be done immediately, since we have time to play with.

Staying to draw a rapid response and commit the enemy against us is awesome, but staying to actually repair the M113 is really dumb.  Ideally we stay, wait out until there's armor, and then just leave; in practice we might just want to linger a bit to force a play before splitting without waiting for substantial contact.  Pull up stakes and move (be prepared to do so from the outset), through an area we've mined or worked.

They hate us, they fear our mobility and they're going to dump a shitload of resources on us.  I think letting them is fucking sweet, but only for what it does for the defense.  Once that's been accomplished, we bolt.

The LTs plan is going to be a straight-up bloodbath.

You're assuming. We don't know the extent of the bigger picture, only that the immediate area around us has gone quiet. There's no indication that the battalion's 2nd column heading on the militia pocket is affected by this at all. Nobody in our organization has the job of making those decisions or analyzing the general situation, even the Major despite his rank is only a platoon commander operating on the scale of a small brigade. We signed up and took the job of mobile reserve, not to make command decisions outside of our chain of command.



Our job isn't to defend. The city has nothing but people to do that. We're their only offensive assets. We should be doing that with or without any vehicles since we are (were) the only team not tied down. And aren't you assuming the enemy will want to assault us. They don't need to, partly for the reasons you've already stated. All they need to do is set up in the buildings across the street where there's good cover and picking us off and using anti-armor weapons at what you've also already labeled as being close range.



I don't think that changes anything. They want us dead either way. And they know where we are. One M113 broken or not isn't going to do anything to their plans. If anything, I'd say they'd attack sooner if they thought is was operational... since they don't want us to get away.



The same could be said in reverse. We're trying to adapt to losing the M113.



But Young disagrees...

OK, after people have clarified their positions it appears as if it is 5/3 in favour of getting what we can from the M113 and moving out.

The reason I called for a vote is that whilst I'm perfectly comfortable with ordering people about, this is a game for all of us, not just me. I wanted to clarify exactly what people thought in order to take the game in the direction at least the majority of people want.

I'll wait for someone to double check my count on the voting and check with the GM before posting anything. May I thank you all for your considered opinions and time.

I think that this suggestion has a lot of merit – using the M113 to draw out a response from the enemy’s reserves before damaging them as much as possible and then bugging out sounds like a good idea to me.




I think that Helmut raises two very good points here that I agree with fully.




You obviously know a lot more about explosives than I do but what would 3 kilos of C4 do if detonated inside the M113?  I would have thought that it would have destroyed most of the gear left inside the M113?  If we then plant the remaining 1 kilo of C4 in the engine of the M113 then I don’t think that repairing it will be something that the enemy can do in the scope of this battle.