The old OOC was getting full.

First to break this OOC forum's virginity!

Damn it I get your sloppy seconds

Sloppy seconds aren't so bad.  She's all lubed up and eager for another go.  It's getting her started that's the tough part.  All that poking and pushing with no glide.  Sometimes you have to rely on artificial lube.

Oh, and in case you were wondering, I am really talking about this OOC Forum.  Come on, I am trying here to force a conversation but there's just no glide.  Oh, I know how to get things all juiced up!

I noticed a couple days ago on Netflix that the Star Wars Clone Wars is now on it.  Yay!  I've waiting a year for this to happen since I heard Disney bought the rights to Star Wars and they made a deal with Netflix to put Disney movies on it.  It's about time this happened.  Disney must have really been trying to milk that series on DVD sales.

I couldn't stomach the price of the DVD's. As much as I want to see the rest of the series. I think I paid less for the entire Saga on blueray than they wanted for the Clone Wars Series.

So far I've seen all of one episode of Clone Wars. It was about Jar-Jar having to take the place of the Gungan religious leader because they're identical cousins or something. I was really expecting to hate it, but it was fun. With the series on Netflix, I can give it a decent shot.

I am on season 4 of six, honestly the first season is more of a kids show, but they really find their niche in the second season and I can't stop watching it. The delve more into other dark side cabals. I would reccommend this to any true star wars fan. 5/5

Yes, I do like what they did with Jar-Jar in that series.  True, he is a bungling idiot, but he's a lucky bungling idiot.  And have you ever heard the expression "Better lucky than good"?  If you're good, then eventually you will run into someone who's better, or you will have a run of bad luck.  But if you're lucky, then luck will overcome all difficulties.  It's like always rolling a natural 20.  And then they put Jar-Jar into situations where him being a Fringe Savant really comes in handy.  Jar-Jar knows the natural world.  When it comes to animals and the natural environment, he's as good as a Jedi.  It seems Qui-gon really did Jar-Jar a disservice by taking him out of the swamp.

Qui-gon did the universe a disservice by saving Jar Jar. At the same time, I guess you could say that Qui-gon's interference (not letting him die) was the first on screen instance of Jar Jar's unbelievable Luck.

The "universe" balanced things by killing Qui-gon...

The only balance brought to the universe was the balance in the Force when the number of Jedi dwindled down to one Master and one apprentice to represent the Dark Side and the Light Side.  And then in the end there was only one, Luke, who used bot the Light and the Dark Side without becoming enthralled by the Dark Side.

I really like that theory, but the presence of the Dathomir Witches, Luminara and countless other force using traditions kinda mess with the whole concept.

There are tons of other force users, in the galaxy and they shed light on them in an awesome way. It was cool to see other dark siders

I'm honestly really hoping to see Ahsoka Tano's story finished in Star Wars Rebels.

In reply to GM Vibetrippin (msg # 12):

The whole Expanded Universe messes with a lot of concepts that Lucus had laid down in the canon films.  Don't be surprised if in the new films he barely gives a nod to the Expanded Universe yet again.

It has already been stated that the new films aren't following the EU. After all, it's J.J. Abrams. He avoided Star Trek canon.

Someone ought to call him J.J. Farragut because when he starts a movie his directions are always "Damn the canons, full speed ahead!"

May the 4th be with you all!

I just spent the day watching the original trilogy with friends.  And before we started, I watched Star Wars: Revelations.

I'm trying to remember where the Fortune Teller thing comes from with the Ryn. I know there is the little thing that any Ryn can do with a pack of Sabacc cards, but isn't there a Ryn Fortune Teller talent tree?

Sadly there's not even a Ryn racial feat to boost said ability.

The Ryn Fortune Telling ability is on page 11 of Scum and Villainy.

That's all there is? I could have sworn I saw a Ryn Fortune Teller Talent Tree. Maybe it was a bit of fan made material.
Such a cool racial ability completely dropped by WotC.

Well I can't say 100% there's nothing but my knowledge of the rules isn't too bad, and there's nothing in the Index or Omegadex so I'm inclined to think that talent was probably a houserule somewhere.

Moonstone, are you planning any other handbooks?

In reply to GM Vibetrippin (msg # 24):

I hadn't really planned anything.  Right now my hard drive is crashed and chkdsk has been workimg on it for weeks.  Is there some something in particular you wanted?

I thought it would be interesting to see your take on the Scoundrel.

Sorry to hear about your hard drive. It always sucks when stuff like that happens. Any chance you had it backed up externally?

Alright, got it fixed.

Eh, scoundrels as a class have some of the best talents and the weakest chassis of any of the base classes.  This generally makes them a good dip class for adding a specific power talent and a poor class for a continued progression once you have the talent you want (For instance Dastardly Strike is needed to make a CTKiller build and Gambler talents can easily break the game).

Because most force users replace class talents with force talents anyway, Scoundrels are the worst class for building a force user since you lose the main appeal of the class in the first place.

So, anybody else getting pumped from the new Star Wars trailers?

The last scene actually got me.  I realized I haven't seen Harrison Ford actually smile in. . . ages.  All his recent appearances and movies have been scowly and seeing a twinkle in his eye and celebration on his face was almost jarring.  Home indeed.  We're all home.

I actually avoid movie trailers as best I can until after I see the thing they're traily for. So far I've just seen that earlier one that showed the cross-guard lightsaber, and been pretty excited for the film since it was announced. Not much they can do to make me either not-excited or more excited, honestly. :P

It does feel good to see those promotional shots of Harrison as Han again.

As a dip class scoundrel opens a lot of doors.

All I know is that the trailer made me pee my paints like a little girl....every time I watched it(30times and counting).

I am wondering if they 801st imperial aces are going to be in it with that Tie pilot with the red stripes on his helmet that was chasing the falcon.

And the Latest news is that Boba is not dead, and it has been cannonized.

  Both of the videos they put out are just teasers. They are not actually trailers, so nothing is given away story wise. They have done a good job of pulling in Star Wars fans to be part of the movie. From what I saw and heard, they seemed genuinely happy to be part of the franchise, which will make it better. Everyone from JJ down have a love for it, and I think that will make it so much better. It is obvious from the 2nd teaser they know what us fans want, and they delivered it so far.

  Though, its too early to tell from the brief glimpses, but I just hope that they are not going to rehash the original movies, and just change the names. I mean they are using Empire vs. Rebels, but changed the name to First Order vs. Resistance or whatever they called it. Its Jakku instead of Tatooine, though it looks the same. But, we'll see. I do love that they are using some books to complement and fill back-stories for the movies. Tarkin was pretty good, and I've heard good things about the other books. The Star Wars Rebels series is really coming along well, and the season 2 trailer looked great. They aren't throwing a bunch of Ewoks/Gungans in that series, which I thought they might when I heard it was a cartoon. So far, it has been better than I expected.

May the Fourth be with you!

I really wish the new Star Wars opened in time for May 4th, but oh well.  We got Avengers and that's good to.

so anyone need any Starwars saga players.  another game that I was in just died before it got started.

Maybe. I have a game running at the moment where the current adventure is just coming to the end. Could probably take on an extra player or two, won't be immediately though. Game over three years old now so got legs.

Also realised the other night that I'm currently not playing in any active Star Wars games myself, so if anyone else has openings I'd be interested too.

just as a note.  I have no need or want to play a jedi/sith based game.  If that helps.

I favor Jedi games. Sith not so much. I don't touch Forceless games.

"Hokey religions and ancient weapons are no match for a good blaster at your side, kid."

;P

Do not put too much faith in this technological terror you've constructed. The power to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the Force.

Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebels' hidden fort.

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

*force chokes*

"The Force is an energy field.  It surrounds us.  It binds us.  It penetrates us."

Kinky, ain't it?

hahahaha we all are such geeks.  :)  And I mean that in a good way.

  I am thinking about starting a new campaign. I have several options I am considering..

  1. A mercenary campaign in the era around the time of the Tarkin novel (during the construction of the first Death Star). A group of people that are doing odd jobs to get by from various employers. There could be a force user/Jedi that survived the purge, but he/she would have to keep his identity and abilities hidden.

  2. A straight up commando team during the Clone Wars. It doesn't necessarily have to be clones. The Republic did have commando's before the Clone Wars that dealt with system disputes and despots that overthrew legitimate governments.

  3. A Rebel commando team after the Battle of Yavin.

  I like the New Republic/Galactic Alliance era personally, but since the new dawn of Star Wars movies are going to void those timelines I need to stick with pre-episode VI campaigns.

every commando game that I have been apart of has died before it ever got started.  :(

  Yeah, the one I was in got past the mission briefing and then died right shortly after starting the first scene. If the GM's don't have a good mapping program to really run an action based commando campaign it becomes a daunting challenge.

  I use maptools and can move pieces around a board and I post them to the maps section after every round, with grid coordinates so you know your position relative to everything else. Very important for several feats/talents to get flanking, charge, etc. etc. Also good for making use of cover, area effects, and things like that to plan tactics.

  Otherwise you get.. uh well how close are they to me, is there cover nearby, how close are the enemies to each other, which when posting rates are sporadic can cause one round to take many weeks.

Probably the best idea in a commando game is to skip right past the planning and briefing stage.  Get right to the mission, and right to the action.  Just figure that Rebellion high command already came up with the plan.  Now the players' job is to carry it out.  Sure, some players don't follow orders well.  That's fine.  It would be just like Rebels to think they see some flaw in the plan, and start to improvise.  Or they don't even have to see a flaw.  The plan could go bad from the start and they have to improvise.

After a lot of experimentation, I think that a good game has to have the right balance between planning, roleplaying, and action.  But that balance is just a hard one to find because each player has his/her idea of what is the right balance.  If the players won't adjust their preferences, then the GM has to.

Combat though is the real problem.  It just takes so long in play by post.  People get bored.  Better to run a game where the challenges aren't going to be combats.

  That's why I have the merc campaign as #1. That's the easiest to play in pbp and more adventure options and a little more choice of missions.

  But the commando's can still work. They aren't there for a long, drawn out combat. They get in and get out quick. If they get stuck, they can call in fire support or evac. Either that or retreat/reroute to get to an objective or make an escape if support isn't possible (hijack a vehicle, find a sewer system to escape, etc.).

  I do like the idea of skipping the intro and meet and greet role-play. It is tedious for all involved. Jump right into the mission is much better all around.

Well, if we're doing Clone Wars era, I'd probably still want to play jedi. Not really interested in being the faceless scrubs of the Clone Wars.

Clone Commandos does sound like the best option far as skipping past the meet-n-greet, the mission briefing, and the planning.  Clones already know each other.  They know that they only difference between them is their individual specializations.  The mission briefing can be kept really brief, or it may not be completed by a single statement.  The mission could be so secret that mission objectives could be revealed to them when they become relevant.  That way if captured the clones cannot reveal their final objective.  Planning would then have to come by the seat of their pants.  Commandos are trained to improvise.  A lone Jedi could also be sent along to command the mission.

Another idea is a group of heroes thrown together in the heat of the moment.  Everything is happening so hot and heavy that there's no time for meet-n-greet, no time for planning, and barely any time for a briefing of what they have to do.  Clone Wars works great for that because there's a clear line between friend and foe, i.e. the droids are the bad guys, and anyone living is on my side.

Also have to decide what level it starts at.

Clone Wars has to start at level 8 or higher. (A Padawan wouldn't be let out of the temple to command anything...)

You could do 1st level, just need to be more creative. If doing it in res media the Jedi General might have been killed or have to go do something more urgent leaving their Padawan with the clone troopers.

 I was thinking the same thing.. they are stuck behind enemy lines.. each player part of a different unit coddled together. Commanders and Jedi killed, etc. Their long range comm systems destroyed. They bring together some survivors of a platoon to form a squad and make an escape. During the retreat and confusion they end up a long way away from the main force. The Republic goes on full retreat and they are left behind and have to survive and escape.

  I would probably start it 3rd level, since clones aren't released from Kamino before they are better trained. A relatively new Jedi padawan could be one of the survivors, having lost his master in the battle.

  I don't like starting anything at 8th level. It doesn't give the characters a chance to develop properly from a novice to a veteran. That's one of the best times to play a character and earn the way to elite status with all the accolades of their accomplishments detailed and lived-out.

  So the question is who is interested in playing? I'm a bit surprised the merc group wasn't more appealing to people. But I guess the smuggler/merc campaigns are probably overdone.

I just hate Forceless games that are no jedi allowed. I just decline them.

But alright, I guess I can do the Padawan.

In all my years of perusing Star Wars games I would have to say that the merc/smuggler type games have not been overdone.  Smuggler games tend to be all roleplaying though.  That isn't everyone's cup of tea.  And mercenary games are... well... that's like most other games out there.  That isn't very "Star Warsy".  Now Jedi though, that is very "Star Warsy".  It just won't feel much like a Star Wars game without at least one person who can use the Force.

Preferably while standing one one's head with one hand with a green midgit on his feet. And moving rocks around :P

Definitely don't start at first level.  Although it's nice to see a character grow from being a snot-nosed brat who thinks he can be a hero to an actual hero, it takes a long time in PBP to get out of first level.  First level characters aren't capable of much.  And you have to pull your punches when doing a combat with them.  That doesn't feel dramatic enough.  The nice thing about Clone Wars Era though is they got opponents who're even wimpier than Stormtroopers.


Even Luke and Yoda got a Training Montage.

The thing about level 8, though, is that it's Jedi Knight. Because theoretically, the first thing a padawan could, and should do when communications to anywhere are re-established is contact the temple and put himself back in protective custody.

Starting without knighthood means, in most cases, the game will die before you ever get there.

  I never start with 1st level, even with table top. I actually would like to have a campaign like that, but it would have to be heavy role-play and there doesn't seem to be enough people that would enjoy that. I would venture most of those go do the free form role-play for writing stories.

  I enjoy the whole idea of coming up from a street urchin, where the run down undercity block is your whole world.. and then you move up to find other, better places.. and on and on as you progress and grow. But posting 2-3 times a week would be a 10 year (real time) story before you become a galactic hero.

This whole discussion has brought up an idea for a game I have had drifting around in my head for years (likely since the Clone Wars animated series began).  In a week my classes will be over, and in another week (hopefully) my jury duty will be over.  Then my summer begins, and I have a whole mess of time on my hands.  And then we shall see if it lasts past the summer.

I won't feel bad if it doesn't.  It's just a single scenario.  I haven't thought this thing out into other scenarios, unlike other game ideas I've had.  That would depend on if the characters want to stick together.  That's the beauty of it, and the curse.  It's an idea that puts together characters of many different backgrounds: regular spacers, Wookiees, Clones, smugglers, an urchin, and even a Jedi Padawan or two.

So, I'd like to open up a discussion on Min-Maxing.  This is, of course, a touchy subject so let's keep it civil.  Before claiming that min-maxing precludes roleplaying, look up the Stormwind Fallacy.

For me, Min-Maxing is about keeping players on a similar tier.  For those who aren't familiar with the Jargon, the Tiers of Characters are:




I got my first taste of minmaxing way back in the day when I first started and built a soulknife because it seemed so cool.  Then I discovered that the Druid's animal companion was far more useful than I was, never mind the rest of the druid's abilities.  My character was effectively useless and I was a joke at the game unable to contribute in any meaningful way.  That sucked a lot.  It wasn't fun for me as a player and it wasn't fun for the other players because I was deadweight they kept having to rescue.  It made the game less fun for all involved and that's the opposite of why I game.

I like Tier 3 and I try to keep my characters there.  I feel that a character should be able to do their specific job, better than anybody else in the party.  A character should also be able to contribute at other jobs, but not better than anybody else at the other character's specialty.  I'll pull out a lot of minmaxing if I need to play a Tier 4 or below, while playing a Tier 1 or 2 I'll deliberately hamper abilities to get my character down to Tier 3, for instance a cleric who cannot fight in melee.

Star Wars Saga doesn't have tiers for characters so much.  The flexible talent trees mean that it's more on the player and build than a specific class.  I find that Scoundrels and Jedi are effectively Tier 4 while Soldiers, Scouts, and Nobles are Tier 3.  Any character can hit tier 2 with the Force or being a Droid since those two options are effectively better for any concept that a non-force organic.

However Saga has major tier issues with equipment.  A character who tries to fight with a Lanvarok or Decksweeper is going to be useless standing next to a character who's fighting with a Blaster Cannon (and worse, had to pay a feat for the privilege of sucking with said lanvarok or decksweeper).  A player who picks a Stinger Starfighter can solo an entire wing of Krayt Gunships even though the Krayt costs twice as much.  If you bought Marine armor and the other player bought Seatrooper Armor, one of you is hosed and it's not the one who spent less money.  Thus my guides tend to steer players more towards useful equipment while also nudging them away from outright broken stuff like TIE Scouts and Neo Crusader armor.


So, enough about my opinions.  How do you feel about this as a player?  How about as a GM?

I'm not sure Jedi should be called Tier 4. They're Saga's wizards and such, and a quick look at Yoda and Sidious should remind you that linear warriors, quadratic wizards is totally in effect for the Jedi.

I was speaking of the class, rather than the concept.  The Jedi class is somewhat weak, since most force talents can be selected by any class.  It's basically a dip to grab a lightsaber and the block/deflect talent and usually not the first level because it's skills are so weak.  Luke did the right thing deciding to start out a Scout and then Multiclass to Jedi later.

In general I've actually found that the reverse of Quadratic Wizards is the case in Saga.  Due to Skill Focus: Use the Force being available at level 1, a Jedi can readily get a UTF check of somewhere around +13 to +15 at level 1, opposed by an opponent's save scores of perhaps 12-16 meaning they hit on anything but a natural 1.  On the other hand by level 20 the Jedi still will only have a UTF check of perhaps +30 while the defenses look to be in the low to mid 40s at that point, meaning far less effective force powers.

In general I feel that Skill Focus should be forbidden at less than level 5 for skills that are "opposed" by other skills or saves such as UTF, Deception, and Pilot.  It needs to still be allowed for other skills like Treat Injury since a low-level medic is hosed trying to do anything without the feat due to high static DCs.

I'd say most of your Tier 1 and Tier 2 classes (Jedi included) really depend upon the creativity of the player.  I've seen players who're dumb as posts build and play these kinds of characters.  And due to their lack of creativity and problem solving abilities, their characters fall down to a Tier 4.

In reply to GM Samurai Kato (msg # 64):

Eh, not really a part of tiers though, which are an "assume all else is equal" matter.  An uncreative player is less effective (depending on the GM, I've had some that hate any sign of lateral thinking and stomp on such ideas) but an uncreative player who makes a tactical blunder in a Thalassian Slave Transport takes some HP Damage and requires a mechanics check later, while the same player in a Dynamic Freighter gets the whole party killed and the campaign probably ends.

It's also far easier to be less effective than more.  The greatest tactical player in the world is going to have trouble making a commoner useful against a Balor while even a player in their first game ever will be able to contribute with a druid.

Lastly tactical skill and well-built characters tend to go hand in hand.  You can't figure out what the optimal choices are until you've actually played enough to know how to use them.  On the other hand numeric bonuses don't require player creativity, the "Big Six" items in DnD are so named because no matter the player, no matter the tactics, no matter the group, having those items is always a plus, there is no character who is worse off for having a cloak of resistance.

Or a Vest of Resistance, in case your Paladin is busy using a cloak to boost his Charisma. Nothing like +8 to all your saves, when your saves are already obscene cause Paladin.

There must be more to this anecdote.  I'd like to hear the whole story.  That sounds much more entertaining than the current topic.

Not that amazing but okay.  Followed a request off to a game on another board.  This rarely ends well, I've found, but Saga games are getting rare so I gave it a shot.

We were doing the common "Smuggler/pirates" theme.  We got a fixed number of credits (I think it was 150,000) for our ship.  I put forward my choice of choices, Thalassian Slave Transport.  Another player felt that such a large ship was unbecoming of a rag-tag team and wanted the Ebon Hawk.  A third player seemed to think we shouldn't have weapons or shields in order to bluff that we were peaceful traders which nobody else listened to, but the Ebon Hawk notion passed.  The other players took several horrible options including a combat thruster and SR 15 because apparently having defenses like unto cardboard appealed.

Go forward 1 week to first combat in space.  A wing of fighters attack, we're nigh-instantly sucked into a dogfight we can't get out of, and the Ebon Hawk gets creamed because a Dynamic Freighter has horrible stats.  I'm playing a mechanic trying to keep the ship together and we decide to surrender, at which point we're all executed for fighting back.  Guh.  Terrible GMing.

I suggest a mulligan with a ship of my choosing and the other players go with it after that experience.  We get the Thalassian Slave Transport and I work up a backstory about how we captured it and freed thousands of slaves.  We also twink our characters up quite a bit and I build a Pornomancer type.  Incredibly the other girl is still pushing her idea of no weapons or shields but nobody listens this time either.

Second time around the wing of fighters appear.  We have SR100 so their weapons hurt us the same way a BB-gun hurts a rhinoceros.  We cream the fighters and the Star Destroyer jumps in right on top of us.  There's a blistering Capship-to-Capship battles which is. . .actually kind of boring because both sides have trouble piercing each other's shields.  Fortunately on my advice the gunner took several Shield Hits and once he applied them, we get their shields down low enough to punch through with Turbolaser hits and soon their HP are depleting.

At this point I hail the Star Destroyer to demand they surrender to us.  As I've built a character around this I have a persuasion of something like +25 but the GM insists that I can't get an entire Star Destroyer to surrender and we'll have to board them and take out individual sections.  As there's four players and the Star Destroyer has a crew of several thousand we decide we don't like those odds and blow them up when the Captain won't surrender.  The GM ragequits and bans us all from the forum.

There's two important lessons I took from this.  One is not to go to tiny boards following links away from RPoL, that doesn't end well.  The second is that if you make an antagonistic player vs. GM game, don't be surprised when your players present as their characters Pun Pun, Pornomancer, and Chuck Norris.  Nobody has fun watching a total party kill a week into the game except trolls.

Yeah, that's the common trope that players like to go with.  They want to re-play KotOR with characters of their own creation.  Or they want to be like Han Solo only flying a really cool looking ship.  Most players don't look at a ship's stats and balance them against the stats of other ships.  That's your sort of thing to do, moonstonespider.



And it's the GM's job to look at ship stats and balance the opposition appropriately.  That GM was acting like a player, choosing ships based on how cool they look.  You're right, that's bad GMing.  But what I think is truly terrible is that your GM just killed you all on the spot.  Like he had no plan for what if you lose.  He should have thought of an excuse not to.  And the perfect excuse is right out there.  You were attacked by pirates, right?  Your GM should have read up on the history of pirates, both historic and modern.  Not all pirates are after bloodlust.  In fact, most pirates prefer to take hostages.  Often times the ransom you can get for a crew is worth more than the ship and cargo combined.  Make that ship a small one like the Ebon Hawk and that becomes more true.  And if no one pays the ransom, as often is the case with small time traders who cannot afford insurance, the pirates will sell the crew into slavery.  "It's a "win, win, win" as they say.  No one says that.  I say that."



A pornomancer?  I want to ask, but I doubt it's appropriate for this board.

Calling a mulligan was a bad choice for story progression.  Especially when the backstory you guys made up fits perfectly with what I think real pirates would have done with you.  You could have played the same characters, and roleplayed that whole prison break episode.  That was a real lost opportunity for some great storytelling.  I mean, most GMs would start you out at the prisonbreak.  But here, you were sold into slavery because of your own bad decisions.  Then you get to make good out of it by freeing yourselves, freeing other slaves, and getting a tough ship out of it.  "Ain't much to look at but it's got it where it counts."



This GM just doesn't learn, does he?  You have a different ship, and he throws the same encounter at you without again comparing ship stats.  And then when he loses without it ever being a challenge, he ups the ante.  Frankly, you won that fight out of good character construction and good die rolls.  But again that GM didn't know the way his antagonists should react.  The proud crew of an Imperial Star Destroyer would never surrender.  They'd try to escape or die fighting.  And if ever the bridge crew decided surrender to pirates was their best option (not in a million years considering the pirates will sell them into slavery.  Hello!  They're flying a Thalassian slave ship!!!  Any sane person would rather die from being stuck in the anus and shocked to death by a Bothan Stunner than be taken slave by Thalassians.)  Okay, so what if a Talent and a really good die roll convinces the captain to surrender the ship?  The moment he does the Imperial Intelligence Officer on the bridge will signal the thousands of Stormtroopers stationed aboard a Star Destroyer.  Stormtroopers will never surrender.  They will mutiny and take control of that ship.  You had no choice.  You had to blow up that ship.  The GM's idea of you boarding it was obviously suicide.

That GM definitely wanted to win.  It's a small man who cannot accept that he lost.  A small man cannot accept that he made mistakes.  It's a pathetic GM who ragequits.  Even more petty a man to ban you all from the forums.

The real win for a GM is when everyone has fun.  Or 60% of the players have fun.  You can't always win.  I think I was 12 years old when I learned that lesson.  That GM must have been 11 years old.  And like me when I was 11 years old, playing a lot of games by himself.



I take this as a valuable lesson: never be strayed away from rpol.  Rpol is heavily moderated.  If some GM turns into a total troll whose games are all GM vs. Player, winner take all and loser dies, he'd be reported multiple times to the rpol moderators who will take away his GMing priveledges.  And players who get punished simply for being creative and basically out-GMing the GM wouldn't get banned.

Weren't pirates, they were Imperials.

And I've honestly never understood why people want to player pre-made characters.  I don't want to be the second Princess Leia but rather the first Moonstone Spider.  Not my thing I suppose.  Different Strokes.

Actually Pornomancer is just an archetype, a character with so many social skills it amounts to flat-out mind control.  It got it's name in the Shadowrun fandom when 4E proved to be the least balanced edition ever.  Supposedly 4E reduced power levels but in reality it just hosed players without any optimization skills, while those that did produced builds like Pornomancer, a social adept who could throw 60 dice at social rolls in a game where the supposed best in the world were throwing 20.  This is at chargen, the equivalent of level 1 facing off against level 20 characters in skill contests.  4E was really bad at game balance and the reason I quit the Shadowrun franchise, my favored game up until that point.

It's been my experience that players very rarely are willing to surrender or retreat.  Partly because many games make it difficult to impossible (in DnD most monsters can outrun even the fastest PC, most monsters have speeds more than double the PCs), and many characters are so equipment-dependent that escape isn't going to happen in most prisons.
Part of the other issue, I think, is that the PCs are usually a self-contained group.  The traditional prison break requires allies outside the prison to help, often by staging the break and other times by smuggling in tools, but gaming groups rarely have powerful and capable allies like that and most GMs are hesitant to supply them for fear of being labelled GMPC users.

Certain types of adventures that work really well in movies and books do not work in games.  I can't count the number of times I've seen GMs call for stealth missions only for everything to fall apart in short order because somebody rolled a natural 1, or a player just didn't have stealth as a trained skill.

Agreed, gaming isn't about winning.  However  it has rules and players have jobs, not being able to do them makes the game less fun.  All the players thought dying in the Dynamic was a less fun that mopping the floor with a Star Destroyer the the Thalassian Slave Transport.


Agreed.  However I'll note that most of the players thought the second run-through rocked, aside from the GM quitting.  Getting to duke it out with a Star Destroying and beating it into scrap was awesome, partly because I don't think any of them had ever had a game where they actually fought one before.

You were the pirates?  That was a terrible start up for a game.  For one thing, I would stand up and demand more than 150k for a ship.  Pirates need much more money than that to build a good ship for piracy.  And then there's the problem of only having four characters.  That's not enough of a crew for pirates.  How're you going to keep an eye on the crew of the ship you capture, or move the cargo?  You'll need a lot more NPCs to do the grunt work.

Playing pre-made characters has a couple of advantages.  The main one is that it gets the game started really fast.  Nothing worse than going to start a new game with people you just met and then having to spend half the day just making your characters.  When it turns out you don't like the GM's style, or if the game turned out to be boring then you feel like you wasted hours on making those characters.  The other is (and this takes a lot of trust) is that the PCs you're handed have just the right skills to get you through the adventure the GM has planned.  It really would T me off when I went to game conventions, the GM hands us pre-made characters (as is the usual for convention games) and it turns out the adventure takes the PCs out of their element.  That is very bad planning.

For obvious reason I also prefer making my own characters.  I love coming up with characters.  Often times that's more fun than the game itself.  But the GM has to tell you what kind of game it's going to be.  If it's going to be a stealth game, then the players need to know that so they can build stealth characters.  I hate games when the characters are placed outside of their element.  I used to have a GM who loved standing players on deserted islands.  He wouldn't tell you what the adventure was going to be.  He'd lead you believe he had come up with something new and original.  So someone makes a Pornomancer Rogue, and CRASH!  You're on a deserted island.

Shadowrun... I used to like that game.  Mind you, the last time I played it was when 2nd Edition was the thing.  I liked 2nd Edition.  It was just fine.  I couldn't see why they needed to make a 3rd or 4th Edition.  The only idea I had why was they wanted to sell everyone a new set of books.  I feel ripped off when I have to buy a new set of books when the old ones were okay.  And I only bought 2nd Edition because Larry Elmore was at the game store signing books.  I'd run a 2nd Edition game, but who would play it?  I wonder if you can find those books in PDF.

By now all of you have seen the newest Star Wars trailer.  And by now you all have analyzed the hell out of it.  One of those unanswered questions that everyone has is, "Where is Luke?"  You would think that you should see him in a movie trailer.  It's not like he's a minor character in the Saga.

Today the thought occurred to me that perhaps we have seen Luke.  No, not inside an X-wing.  He is hidden, yes, but you see him.  He's the villain.  History is repeating itself.  As the road to the Dark Side was paved with good intentions with Anakin, so is it with Luke.  To quote Darth Vader, "Join me and together we shall rule the Galaxy as father and son.  Luke, it is your destiny."  Was the most powerful Jedi who ever lived wrong?  Darth Vader could see things well in advance of their occurance.  Perhaps his death was just a speed bump.  Yoda foresaw much the same thing when he witnesses Luke rush off to face Vader without completing his training.  Luke has always rushed headlong to face his challenges without any thought for the future.  He has always ignored advice to be patient.  In so many ways, he is exactly like his father.  My theory also answers that other question people have about what Leia is crying about.  She just learned that Luke has turned to the Dark Side and thereby betrayed everything they had fought for.

  It's an interesting idea for a story, but the filmmakers would never let the main character of the beloved first trilogy, who was willing to die instead of turning to the dark side and converted his father to the light, become the bad guy.

  My theory is that Luke went into self-imposed exile when it  was learned he was the son of Vader and most of civilization were fearful of the Jedi. They realized people with the Force were too powerful and regular people would always be at their mercy and they eventually banned Jedi and anyone with the Force.

  Because of their support of Luke, the people of the New Republic also turned against Han & Leia and they left as well.. fell on hard times and Han had to give up the Falcon (or they gave it away so they couldn't be found). Evil began to return in the form of the Knights of Ren and the First Order became another totalitarian regime and a new resistance began and they sought out the Heroes of the original rebellion to learn how to stop the new order. This would explain why Han said in the 2nd teaser "Chewie, we're back."

 I also have a theory that Kylo Ren isn't the real leader of the Knights of Ren. Snoke is the founder and Kylo has taken over.. Who Snoke really is would be interesting and I'm sure a big surprise. I've heard Collider Jedi Council theorize it might be Darth Plageuis, but this make no sense because in Revenge of the Sith, Palpatine says that he killed his master confirming what the Legends book of the same name said.. of course Palpatine could have been lying, but why would Plageuis let him rule and have no part of it if he was actually alive the whole time.

...I can't see Disney of all people turning Luke either. Disney is more likely to have him tucked away in a cabin with a wife and 3 kids.

Cynical but true.  With Disney it has nothing to do with what will or will not make good story.  Since Disney has taken over the Star Wars franchise, the stories have become modern day fairy tales for kids.  Disney will take any dark tale like the Grimm's Fairy Tales and make them all bright and happy.  Everything really bad that happens happens off-screen or in the prolog.

Showing Luke would probably be a spoiler, so he's probably a Force ghost, mentoring the new guy.

Either that or he's retired to Yoda's place on Dagobah. :D

Nah.  Luke has to have a big part in the new film.  He gets second billing on the movie poster.  Now it seems to me that the marketing team for this film are the biggest cockteasers since I was left in a hotel room to babysit a couple of twelve year old girls.  They're building the hype by not showing us Luke.  As if this film needs any more hype, huh?  When they finally do show Luke it is going to result in the biggest nerdgasm the world has ever seen.

Or the biggest let-down as it turns out he's a flashback character who was only included so they could put Mark Hamil's name on the posters.

Any games open at the moment?

Anyone have any ideas for a catchy but not complicated name, for a Clawdite Noble/Soldier.

Going for the Infiltrator/Weaponmaster type of character if that helps any.

edit: Also, are there any bots in SAGA that have an almost Mecha appearance while being roughly human sized? Closest I have seen were the Juggernaut War Droids.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:51, Mon 16 Nov 2015.

How do you define 'mecha-like'?

Sleek and super futuristic. As few rough angles as possible.

My baseline for this is going to be the GX1-Series Battle Droid, although I cannot remember which book it is in.

Scavenger's Guide to Droids.

The GX1 Battle Droid reminds me of the Landmate power armor in the Appleseed manga.
This message was last edited by the GM at 08:20, Wed 18 Nov 2015.

Makes me think of Fooly Cooly

Oh, right, because the robot in Fooly Cooly has a head that looks like a television set.  While the GX-1 has a head that looks like a spotlight.  The two are pretty close.  But I was nothing the second pair of little arms close to the chest.  That's what makes it look like the Landmate power armor.  Though, kind of think of it, a Landmate would be large-size because a person rides inside of it with their legs taking up the space in the Landmate's legs down to above the knee.  And the Landmate's big arms can hold onto assault cannons like they're a regular rifle.

Hey, calling all techies here.

On another site I'very fought my way into a Fallout New Vegas SAGA game and I was struck with an idea I can't quite pull off.

Making a Pipboy out of a wrist/bracer computer. Most of the stuff isn't hard. Radiation Detector,MediSensor, Sensor Pack......but I wonder.
Is there anyone who can think of a way to come close to V.A.T.S. ?

Saga's already a turn based game, so just aim for stuff that gives you bonuses to Condition Track damage to represent the V.A.T.S. called shot system.

Oh some on, we all know how we use V.A.T.S.  The only way that works within the Saga System is to increase your Critical Hit Chance.  So basically have it give Improved Critical Feat.

No idea if I'll even get an answer on this but what have I got to lose, time?

OKAY

Building a Sniper as part of a sniper spotter combo, and due to party makeup being a Droid team came up.

I like the idea, but am unsure on a few things. So here is my question.

What would you find more advantageous, A Replica Droid using teched out armor, or an ordinary Droid that has customized their chassis?

Are you both droids?

If so, then the spotter might do better as a replica in case they needed to get really close to a target, but the main advantage of droids is the ability to customise the chassis to purpose. A small hovering drone that can get into difficult to reach places, with four legs to stabilise its firing position once it gets there it is a much better sniper than a humanoid.

actually, Spotter plans on either battle or probe droid as chassis. Depending on the need for fire support.

My choice is between the Replica and a Battle Chassis, with the Replica currently winning out in my mind due to the simple fact that Armor can cover just about everything that a Droid chassis can have included.

The only thing I'm really looking at now decision wise is, credit comparison on how much I'll end up spending to kit out either my chassis (as well as a possible backup) or a suit of armor.

Not to mention there is some advantage to being a droid when enemies have no idea that you aren't. Mind Trick, hah.

Don't forget that armour cripples you at higher levels unless you spend three levels in soldier specialising.

If all you want is a price comparison, then go Battle Droid all the way.  The armor is cheaper.  6400 for Duranium Plating vs. 7000 for Battle Armor.  Both have the same +8 bonus.  The bigger difference is in the gear you put inside.  A Helmet Package costs 4000 credits.  The same gear installed in a droid comes to 600 credits!  And a droid can take so many more modifications than the best suit of armor.

I wonder how many people here are still active on RPOL.  I also wonder how many would still like to play a Saga game.  I still want to run them but lately I haven't been getting dedicated players.  It seems the games die after about a couple weeks.  I wonder if it's worth my time to try starting new solo games.

There are plenty of people around, just not sure if anybody is playing Saga any more, I think most have moved on to other systems in the meantime. I'm personally just in a nation building game and a pathfinder game and that is it, with all the over time I'm doing I don't think I'd be able to fit in another game at any reasonable speed personally.

I still play SWSE, but I guess many have moved onto the new Star Wars system. But in general, RPOL seems less reliable than usual, too many game die-offs have left me burned out. I'd be interested in other SWSE games, but I've hit my limit on RP, unfortunately.

I'd be interested in playing. I tried joining a few non-sw games here lately, and they've all pretty much died.

I'm still here and playing Saga.

I was in your game Between Light and Darkness, I blame myself partly now I see its been deleted. I know was slow in posting, honestly I kept thinking I'd post in it again. It was my first attempt at playing a droid, not sure if I made a good go at it.

My game is still running after more than 5 years.

I can't commit to quick posting as too busy but can commit to a slower paced game if someone is offering.

I'm still here and I often look around for good stuff to pick up, but I've stopped playing/running Saga Edition games. Uh, again. D20 just doesn't fit me very well. I did get a lot of good advice on how to handle certain things or my last game from this group, which I much appreciate. Just think I'll be sticking to Fate Accelerated for any future Star Wars games.

I'm still around. :) I would love to play Saga again. I tried to drum up some interest for a roll20 saga edition game but none of my usual group like star wars, the heathens.

Yeah, it looks like interest in Star Wars has totally waned.  I keep hoping the new movies would spark a renewed interest.  But it turns out to be a whole lot of nothing.  Each new movie fails to inspire roleplayers here on RPoL.

I did get lucky last year in RL.  I was going around to all the many game stores in my area and I lucked upon a group that was playing Star Wars D20 Revised!  Unfortunately they didn't want to move on to Saga because none of them have the books.  They're impossible to find these days.  And that game lasted about six months.  Then, unfortunately, like every game group I've been part of in the past, the group became scatterbrained.  Almost everybody wants to be the GM.  And they have ideas for other games.  Now by popular demand (that demand coming from players who weren't with us a year ago) we've switched over to 5ed D&D.  That's fine.  But you know, D&D games always feel the same no matter what system you use.

I could get behind a new saga game. I've been pretty absent from rpol recently, but my schedule seems to be clearing up again.

Looks like you have a few players just waiting, Kato :)

In reply to PC Furyou Miko (msg # 103):

Ah, good.  Two or three loyal players is all I ask for.  To the point of my original inquiry.  You may find it a little odd.  I sure do.

For once in my life, I have no idea for a story.  I only have a premise.  This idea I have is for not a canon saga game.  No, unfortunately I watched Force Awakens in the hopes that it would inspire me and it had the opposite effect.  It left too many questions unanswered.  I feel afraid to hazard a guess as to what will happen and what happened in the past.

 Okay, so imagine if you will that something small went wrong, or to properly say, didn't go wrong in A New Hope.  What if R5-D4's motivator didn't go bad?  Then R2 would have stayed with the Jawas.  How then would R2-D2 get the Death Star Plans to the Rebellion?  How would the Galaxy be saved if not by Luke?  I don't know.  For once there is a scenario I can hardly imagine, at least not in a way I think I could present as a game that people would like to play.  So what do you all think of a solo game where the GM asks for in his RTJ two things:  One the usual character with background.  The other a plot synopsis.  How does your character get R2-D2 before the Empire does, get R2 to reveal the plans, and then bring them to the Rebellion?

How do you become Another Hope?
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:57, Wed 26 July 2017.

sounds like cool concept

I once played in a game like this, called A Different Hope. One of Rebel ships crashed into the Jawa sandcrawler, which my scout was hitching a ride on and the other PCs were on the ship. I don't if it was intended to replace the original movie (with R2 destroyed), or was to play out alongside. We spent too long picking over the wreckage, then the game died when we were attacked by krayt dragons, presumably eaten. :\
This message was last edited by the player at 08:33, Wed 26 July 2017.

Does sound interesting. The other thing you could do is to let the players work out how to achieve the goal of 'retrieve R2' and play a reactive game. That said, you need a good set of players for that because especially on RPOL, giving players choices kills games. :/ I still hold the SWSEC game I ran that died because the party were too scared of a wiggy feeling to progress past the first trap  up as an example.

Yes, I know the idea of getting rid of the original movie or changing the way one of the movies ended is not a new idea.  There have been several alternate Star Wars universe games on rpol before.  But my idea is for just a little thing to be different, but a significant enough thing that it has big consequences.

If R5-D4 has a good motivator then Owen Lars never buys R2.  So R2 and C-3PO become separated with C-3PO remaining on the Lars Farm.  R2 would be taken away by the Jawas to be sold to ... or stolen by... ?  That's where my ideas end and where a player's plot synopsis begins.  I don't know how much time R2 has before the Imperial Stormtroopers attack the Jawa Sandcrawler.  Hopefully R2 is off it before then or all is lost for the Rebellion.  Or is he?

It has occurred to me that some games die because the plot diverts drastically from what the players had in mind.  Sudden combats can also break the flow of what was otherwise a good roleplaying session.  So what if the plot goes exactly to what the players wanted?  That would be a freeform game, I guess.  With die rolls things might not go totally to plan.  That's rather the fun of a roleplaying game: random probabilities can ruin even the most well laid plans.  At least bad die rolls will be the only thing the players have to fear.  If there is to be an ambush from Stormtroopers, it is because the players said there would be in their plot synopsis.  As the GM I would only be filling in the details, like how many Stormtroopers there are and which direction they attack from.
This message was last edited by the GM at 08:34, Wed 26 July 2017.

Speaking generally, the Alternate Hope idea, I think, needs to strike a balance between doing things differently enough to be original and doing things similarly enough to be recognisable. Then there's the obvious spoilers to everything. Say the PCs decide not to go to Alderaan for obvious reasons, then they never get captured and taken aboard the Death Star, then they miss some key settings and scenes and don't rescue Leia. Suddenly the campaign is spinning off in a completely different direction and might as well not be riffing off A New Hope at all. If it's too different, then why bother? It might as well be a wholly original campaign. On the other hand, maybe they choose to infiltrate and sabotage the Death Star during the Battle of Yavin, where they get to rescue the princess, pass through the trash compactor, and have a final show-down with Vader at the climax, making for a much more classic-styled adventure than the original movie.

In-universe, there's the destiny argument, that the Force guided R2 to Luke. The counter-argument is that the Force has different ideas this time around.


I want to see a version of Empire Strikes Back or The Force Awakens where Yoda's role as the diminutive, spiteful, incomprehensible trickster mentor is taken up by R2. :D

>< Not to mention the 'R5 sabotaged himself to ensure the plot based on a vision from the force' theory.

I personally don't like the idea of throwing a whole plot synopsis at the DM, but that's because one of the reasons I enjoy roleplaying is because I want to see how the story will unfold and if I'm the one who wrote the synopsis I kinda already know.

:/ Honestly I've been wanting to play a T3 unit for almost as long as they've been out of production (hyperbole and a half I know). How about a hybrid of the two ideas? Especially if the game had two or three players rather than one.

We brainstorm some things we want, and see if that sparks off a wider plot idea in the DM that incorporates some or all of the players' ideas?

Some ideas;

- R2 fixes another ancient droid in the sandcrawler and they plot escape
- A rebel cell in Mos Espa picks up a panicked transmission from the Tantive IV?
- Tuskens engage the stormtroopers at the sandcrawler?
- A young force user detects Vader in orbit and hijacks a Lambda shuttle to escape the inquisition she thinks is coming for her?
- Because there's no rescue in the ruins of Alderaan, Vader has time to turn Leia as an apprentice?
- Luke is killed when the Stormtroopers attack the Lars homestead after interrogating the Jawas (who have already lost R2) because 3PO might have the plans?
This message was last edited by the player at 14:31, Wed 26 July 2017.

Okay, I suppose then that the first thing that needs to be done is to figure out why things happened the way they did in the original.

1. Leia took the Tantative IV to Tatooine because Bail Organa told her that's where Obi-wan was in hiding.  The Rebellion wanted to recruit the grizzled old general, never mind he was also a Jedi.

2. The Tantative IV was attacked because Vader had pursued it all the way from Scarif.  This is how he knew Leia was part of the Rebel Alliance.  He saw her ship leaving the battle.

3. R2-D2 was bought by Owen Lars because R5-D4 had a bad motivator.  The Force works in strange ways.  The Force wanted the Death Star Plans to come to Luke so Luke would have a reason to leave the farm and meet up with Obi-wan.  It was all fate.

4. R2 ran away because his mission meant having to find his old friend, Obi-wan.  As far as R2 knew, Luke was just getting in the way.  At worst, Luke Skywalker reminded R2 of Anakin Skywalker, which made R2 a little afraid and distrustful of him.  It might have been better for the Galaxy to leave Luke's ass in the dust.

5. The Stormtroopers attack the Jawa Sandcrawler because that's who was likely to find a couple of droids wandering out in the desert near the escape pod's crash site.  They downloaded the Jawa's data banks to find out who they sold them to.

6. Owen and Beru are killed by Stormtroopers because they refuse to answer any of their questions about droids.  By that time, both the droids were off the farm so they had nothing to give the Stormtroopers.  All they could give was information, but giving that information would mean selling Luke out to the Empire.  Obi-wan probably warned them against that when he handed Luke over as a baby.  They died to protect Luke.

7. Vader does not go down to the surface of Tatooine because he has to take the prisoner, Leia, back to the Death Star for interrogation.  Besides, he had a meeting with Tarkin and the admirals there he needed to attend.  It was all a convenient excuse for him not to visit his old home.

8. Obi-wan and Luke decide to go to Alderaan because ... lack of information.  R2 and C-3PO apparently do not know where the Rebel Base is located.  The plan was for Leia to pick up Obi-wan and take him to the Rebel Base.  The droids were a hastily laid out Plan B.  So Alderaan is the only planet Luke and Obi-wan know of that's with the Rebellion.  (Mon Calamari and all the other worlds hadn't been written yet.)

Hm. So would Beru and Owen give up 3PO to the Empire when they came knocking? They have no particular reason to be attached to him after all beyond needing a binary translator. Maybe the Imperials leave them with a Mouse instead, much to Owen's despair (and the Imperials' amusement). If so then the Lars and Luke would live... and continue to be unimportant.

Of course there's still the prophesy to fulfil, and Luke's job in the original trilogy was to ultimately convince Anakin to finish the job of bringing balance to the force by destroying the last of the Sith. So someone else must be in place to fulfil that role.

So if the Force picks someone else to be the motivating factor towards Vader's redemption, then that gives the reasoning why R5's motivator blowing wouldn't be necessary.

Point 3 really is the sticking point then. The moment that changed destiny by setting Luke on his course. Otherwise R2 could have found Obi-wan on his own - he did originally after all.

So what if Obi-wan finds the sandcrawler first and buy R2? That then has the Jawas point the Imperials straight at Obi-wan.

- This sounds like the most likely scenario.  R2 was desperate to get to Obi-wan.  If some farmboy won't free him, he would have to free himself.  Given enough time R2 could have repaired all those droids and removed their "do no harm" protocols.  Then they would make a break for freedom.  Maybe in the process they would send a signal to the Empire telling them where they can find the Jawas.  That way the Empire will prevent the Jawas from giving chase.  Play both sides against the middle, so to speak.

- An Imperial officer said to Vader in the original film "... We intercepted no transmissions."  No transmission was sent.  But the Rebellion could have gotten word out another way.  Biggs Darklighter was at the Battle of Scarif.  He was one of the X-wing pilots who got away.  While Leia is trying to shake Vader by jumping form system to system on her way to Tatooine, Biggs makes a direct flight.  Biggs is from Tatooine and a recent graduate of the Space Academy.  It wouldn't have seemed odd for him to go home to visit family.  But his real mission is to get a message to Rebel operatives there letting them know that Leia is on her way and she needs help to locate Obi-wan.  In a deleted scene Biggs and Luke are together at Tosche Station when Luke spots a space battle happening over head.  Biggs tries to recruit Luke to the Rebellion, but Luke is all "I can't leave.  My aunt and uncle need me."  Biggs and his team of rebels may then go out to try to save survivors who crashed in an escape pod.  They then track the droids to the Jawas, but only find R2.

- Didn't happen in the original film, and I don't see how that's going to help the Rebellion get the Death Star Plans.

- A very likely thing to happen.  But how is she going to rescue R2?  Perhaps R2 gets free on his own.  This young Force User finds him wandering the desert and agrees to help R2 get to Alderaan.  And, oh wait, where have I heard this plot before?  That's The Force Awakens!

- Depends on how the first half of the film turns out.  If say Biggs and his team save R2 then Biggs will have taken R2 directly to Yavin in his X-wing.  Hence Leia doesn't get rescued.  But she would not get turned.  Vader didn't sense she was strong in the Force then, and Tarkin ordered her executed.

- Not necessarily so.  All Owen and Luke bought was C-3PO in my scenario.  C-3PO didn't know anything.  He didn't have the Plans or a mission.  Luke and Owen could have cooperated with the Empire and showed them C-3PO.  The Empire could then download C-3PO's memory and not have gotten what they wanted but some extra clues about R2-D2's mission.  The Empire had no reason to attack Human moisture farmers who could have given them what they wanted if the Stormtroopers would just ask nicely.  The Stormtroopers were asking nicely in Mos Eisley, so why not on the farmsteads that help keep the planet alive?  Luke and Owen had no reason to refuse a perfectly reasonable request.  It's not like they are hiding a droid that is carrying a secret message for Obi-wan Kenobi.

The Raid on the Lars Farmstead probably went like this:
Stormtrooper - You there, farmer!  Did you acquire any droids recently?
Owen - Yes. (The Stormtrooper already knows the answer is yes.  Owen is being truthful.)
Stormtrooper - Show them to me.
Owen - Okay.  They're down in the garage.  (Owen doesn't know the droids are gone.  When Luke discovered R2 had run away, he didn't tell Owen.  Luke was afraid he would get in trouble.)
Stormtrooper - There are no droids here.  Where are they?
Owen - I don't know.  They should be right here.
Stormtrooper - (backhands Owen across the face) Where are they!?
Owen - I don't know!  Maybe Luke took them out early to check on the vaporators on the South Farthing.
Beru - What was that noise?  What's going on?
Stormtrooper - Where are the droids you recently acquired, woman?
Beru - I don't know.  Luke should know.  Luke!  Luke!  Where are you, Luke?
Stormtrooper - (talking to the rest of his squad) You, get on your ride and check out this South Farthing.  The rest of you, tear this place apart.  I want those droids found.
Owen - Hey, come on!  I have no reason to lie to you.  Stop that!  You're going to break that.  If I knew where those droids were at, I'd tell you.  I'm just as confused as you are.
Stormtrooper - Shut up, Rebel scum!  You're hiding them.  We'll find them.
Another Stormtrooper - Sir, we've searched everywhere.  No sign of the droids or this Luke person.  There's a space in the garage.  It looks like a landspeeder's missing.
Owen - That had to be Luke.  I told you, South Farthing.
Stormtrooper - The man I sent there reports there's no one out there.  Where did they really go?
Owen - I don't know.
Stormtrooper - I'm tired of this.  Talk or I'll order my men to burn down your home.
Owen - I! .... don't! ... Know!  Maybe Anchorhead!  I told Luke to get those droids' memories erased.  Take your search there.
Stormtrooper - Fine.  Have it your way, Rebel Scum.  Burn the place, men.
Beru - Owen, tell them something, anything!  They're burning our house!
Owen - Tell them what?  I told them what little I know and these bucketheads don't believe me.
Stormtrooper - I'm going to ask you one last time.  Where did Luke go with the droids?
Owen - Well... uh... Screw you!  I wouldn't tell you even if I did know!  Arrrrrgh! (as the Stormtrooper shoves Owen into the fire)
Beru - Owen!  Noooooo!
Stormtrooper - Awww, how sad.  Least I could do is reunite you with your husband. (shove)
Other Stormtrooper - (watching two figures emerge from the burning home totally engulfed in flames) Sir, if they're not here then where did they go?
Stormtrooper - They can't stay on this planet forever.  They've got to get a ship off.  Search the starports.  They'll turn up eventually.
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:49, Wed 26 July 2017.

Vader, according to The Force Unleashed and the Star Wars: Revelations fanfic film, was long plotting to overthrow the Emperor.  He hinted as such to Padme in Ep. 3.  He told her that someone strong, good, and wise should rule the Republic with an iron fist.  Someone like him.  The Rebellion's formation was a result of Vader's manipulations.  Vader needs the Rebellion to keep the Emperor distracted so he doesn't discover Vader's plans.  So the reason why the Rebels got away with the Death Star Plans at Scarif when Vader could have used The Force to go Yoink it out of that Rebel Trooper's hands?  He wanted them to get away with it.  But he had to make it look like to the Emperor that he was making a full effort to get the Plans back.  Vader's incompetence is all according to his plans.  Without Luke, Vader would have still killed the Emperor then assumed his place.  His redemption wouldn't come until later.

That would fall upon Vader's grandkids.  Luke lives and has his own kids.  So in steps Rey Skywalker who's the real Prophesied One.  And that's my opinion about her in the actual canon saga.  I think Qui-Gon had it wrong.  He was missing a lot of stuff in the middle.  The Vergence in the Force and the Prophesied One are actually two different people.  It's like Legend of the Overfiend, if anyone here has ever seen the full version of that tentacle-rape Hentei.

I like where you're going with this so far.  I have a few ideas for characters that could work if you decide to start the game.

The basic idea (for one of my thoughts) is simple but I would expand on it once we get to the design step.  A mercenary who just happens to be in the wrong/right place at the wrong/right time.   That is just a very basic idea but there is much more depth to it.  I have always been one who likes the other players to learn about my character in game not before hand.  :)

Well I will run it as solo adventures.  So no other players to learn about your character.  No other players to screw things up for you by doing something as thoughtless as stop showing up.  Ticks me off so bad!  Just when I get the storyline started, players start vanishing.  It's impossible to tell a story with any continuity.  At least with solo games when a player disappears the game simply ends.  There's none of this lingering on with the other players trying to foster on without critical members of the team, or me having to seek new players to take over existing characters.  Some people don't like taking over the child of another person's imagination.

Anyways, I can't do it now.  It's September.  I've entered into the hottest time of year.  It even stays pretty hot at night.  The heat saps my energy and creativity.  I'll have to wait until I get Autumn temperatures.  Hard to say when that'll happen.  Usually it comes about mid-October.  October though is a very unpredictable month.

I'm still playing SAGA...

I don't like messing with Canon too much, but I like concurrent stories that may or may not tie into the larger Canon storyline, but the PCs are the heroes in their own little part of the galaxy or story.  I really liked "Rogue One" -- something like that is what I like, the previously untold stories with interesting and important characters in their own right.

Then you would love the Tag & Binks comic books.  Nothing to do with Jar Jar because they were written before Phantom Menace.  Basically, it's a story that is like Rosencrantz and Guildenstern Are Dead.  It's the story of two unlikely Rebel heroes who're there in the background every step of the way of the original trilogy.  They're always in the background; you're never aware of how they contributed to the story.

So I finally got around to starting that thing I said I was going to do.

link to another game

So I've discovered that Saga Edition's Challenge Rating system is really unhelpful. Two CR 1/2 security droids that weren't intended to be so much as speedbumps to my two level 2 PCs managed to severely injure one and kill the other. Over the course of five levels, those two died a whole heck of a lot, while also managing to take out one of my high level enemies intended as a climactic challenge before she had a chance to take her second action.

Is there some method of having a sense of balance, where the GM can gauge what to expect with any reliability?

I believe the challenge rating system is for 4 characters but nothing can really account for extreme rolls.

I am actually about to start a Living Force game link to another game it is a game where in general the adventures are short (3 or 4 hours session, playing face to face, that becomes a few weeks or months on play by post, and you can have several adventure threads ongoing at the same time with different characters in different grups.

I have been running for last six months or so a very similar concept in a fantasy setting and I am having lots of fun.
A player can have multiple characters in different adventures and I am also exploring the chance of having multiple GMs running different games at the same time (luckily a colleague already joined so will test drive it soon ;)

I'm thinking also about allowing characters to move across games (although there are issues with timelines, but, for example, if we have two Rebellion games we could turn a bit of a blind eye when we move back and forth a character, even if we aren't exactly in the same month and day).
For example, I'm running a Dawn of Defiance game (very linear) and I may ater  on allow players moving to the Living Force game for just a stand alone adventure (just to break the linearity a bit, and DoD text suggests you to do this at least a couple of times across the campaign) and then probably go back to the Dawn of Defiance game (or vice versa).

I want to see a bit more how this develops in practice, before bothering you again ;)
This message was last edited by the player at 02:22, Thu 26 Apr 2018.

Living Force: Cularin (link to another game) should be more or less ready right now.
I would appreciate a lot if you could have a general read of its public folders and game wiki with fresh eyes and help me rectifying all things that for sure need to be rectified or clarified.
After that I will open to players ;)

I remember the Living Force... as in I played in one adventure of it with a game club.  So I get the whole concept of it.

MAY THE 4TH BE WITH YOU!
Living Force: Cularin is officially open! link to a message in another game