In reply to Judge Messalen (msg #2):

Yes, yes, yes and yes.

1. I've got to admit that at the beginning I was skeptical a Wild West genre game would hold my interest since I grew up in the swords & sorcery era. But I humbly stand corrected. I find a wild west game very engaging and would be very willing to continue.

2, 3 & 4. I'm in and I've bonded with JEB, but if you want to start new characters I'd still play. Also, let me just add that if JEB continues I request the opportunity to change a few things. Since I was new to the game I didn't understand how to build a character and loaded up with less usefull skills.

Yes to all.  I'd like to continue with Travis.  If allowed I also wouldn't mind reexamining and allocating some skills/feats etc as we move to 2nd level.

I think open-ended vs close-ended is not an issue.  I could play both.  Every now and then I think in the interest of time the judge should simply summarize and move the party on.

Since both JEB and Travis expressed a desire to re-allocate stats, I'll comment on that (and maybe take some tangent).

If you want to continue the same character, I would say don't change what you already did.

First, that's life. You make choices and then later own you say something like "if only I had spent the last 25 years learning how to play piano." GTTM is supposed to be the gritty, harsh old west, not the glamorous movie-set version. That's something I don't want to change--I want the hard knock life. If you keep the character, you keep the character . . . as is.

Now, second, that doesn't mean you can't change him. S:R is designed for multi-classing. I mentioned that during your character design but advised players not to do that until a couple of levels are under your belt. Part of that design gives you the flexibility to change your character over time. There is no penalty for switching classes, at any time. A negative is that you don't get the advancement benefits of an existing class (at least temporarily--because you can switch back and take another level in any class at any time). But you can become well-rounded after a couple of levels. Also, you don't really need to change classes to get cross-class skills, or choose desired feats, so a player can customize the PC easily.

As it happens, everyone levels-up from this adventure. That's one level to work with.

I'm also thinking of advancing seven years. 1872. Being mindful of that, Judge and players would develop further back story for the interim. You would advance your character two more levels during that time (assuming some of it is general living--7 years of adventure would likely leave a feller as dead as powdered wigs). That's three total. In three levels, you could develop your existing PC naturally, without going backwards.

If players choose to keep existing characters I would prefer that we work that way. Additionally, to introduce another topic:

5. Would you accept the need for a couple of required skills or other standards for the group? If so, your PC will need to cover those things during the advancement, or back story.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:28, Sat 22 Aug 2009.

Yes to all but I would really like to continue with Meri. I could see our characters in something akin to the Lincoln County wars... ah-la Regulators but I'm willing to play any scenario really. Thanks Meri

Lincoln County War would be an interesting setting. That's an excellent idea. But that's a little farther ahead than I wanted to advance. Like I said, 7 years is what I'm thinking. To the prime of the Texas cattle drives to the Kansas railheads.

Would love to keep playing Sidewinder and would prefer to keep with Silas...have grown attached to the box of rocks!   :-)

I'm game for either open or closed scenarios but despite the grittiness would like to see a bit more movie-style action. Doesn't have to be Spaghetti Western...Lonesome Dove and Open Range will suffice just fine. Rewatching Deadwood has certainly got my western juices flowing.

Despite the late-game issues that cropped up I think everything turned out just fine. Hey, a group of hobbled together friends with linked pasts are going to have issues, but we all worked through them and cast them aside...bravo.

Okay, time to oil my longarm!

More action is fine with me, but I want to maintain balance between roleplaying and action. In my opinion the couple of battles we had in the valley were exciting in part because they were the culmination of a difficult journey and circumstances. If action becomes too common, it loses that edge, for me. You speak of Deadwood--I've been re-watching the 2nd season, Dana has watched one season with me each of the last two summers--and one of the reasons that is so good is because of the interplay of characters, whether politics or personal. The action punctuates the "roleplaying" in the camp. (Funny, I just started reading Lonesome Dove, the novel; checked it out from the library yesterday).

I can’t say Art really has a bunch of plans. Originally I’d decided (arbitrarily) that Art needed try to locate the homestead from which his journey started many years ago. It’s somewhere not too far from where he is now. That will complete his “first” nearly life-long walkabout. His second grand walkabout will start at that point. He’s a wanderer and can go anywhere in the world.

I estimate that finding the homestead would take Art a month or two of in game time and needn’t happen immediately.

Art want to make sure that Owen gets settled, that he gets hooked back up with his father’s pension.

Art could stay here a while and conduct some adventures, or go on the road, it doesn’t really matter.

I like the character and would enjoy playing him further. That said, I’m not averse to rolling up another, but using RPoL, character development is very drawn out.

There were a few times where we would all get on a roll and log in and respond three or so times over the course of an evening or weekend and things would move along and be quiet enjoyable. Those are favorite times.

One thing I found frustrating was the herky jerky delay involved in giving everyone 48 hours to check in. Sometimes that would mean posting Friday night, checking in 3 or 4 times on Saturday, 3 or 4 times on Sunday, until I almost didn’t care any more then some small post would come in and we’d continue but I felt like the momentum had been lost.

I think that if the group was roughly settled some where it might lend itself to individual gaming on the short term and that I would enjoy that.

The Judge did through in clues at multiple points, some of which I figured out, and I greatly enjoyed that aspect.

I’ll post more as I think of it.

I agree that 48 hours became problematic. I established that expectation early on because a few players hedged about whether they would have time to play regularly. I was hoping to get a number of my past gaming crowds involved. If we move on, a 24 hour period makes much more sense. And the Judge might need to move on sometimes whether you slackin' PCs have spoken your piece or not. In other words, "Shoot, Luke, or give up the gun."


Lone-wolf gaming on RPoL while also involved with a group seems doubtful; however, the idea of having the group roughly settled somewhere would help facilitate the bringing together of heroes after any time advancement. Or, some kind of agreeement to meet up somewhere after an interval. BTW, I'm not set on the 7 year time, it is simply a period I'm interested in that also provides various and sundry adventure hooks.

I am about to be off all. First off everyone have a great weekend. Secondly you might be able to use Fort Griffin... mayhaps change it some to fit your vision of the story. Thanks & Cheers Meri

Fort Griffin...how perfect! Perhaps our paths can intersect again in the future there....

I'd be happy to move to the 1870s.  The bestowment of levels seems a fitting compromise.  I only wanted to switch skills because JEB put it on the table.

CAN WE ALL HAVE HORSES????  PLEASE

No need to yell about horses. Nothing was stopping you from buying a horse to begin with, except perhaps your starting money rolls.

Having the Ride skill is one of the Required elements I was speaking of earlier. If others than Cole had purchased horses, some of the characters would have been untrained riders.

From the Life & Times of Meriwether Lewis Smythe

Meriwether had been working for the railroad, troubleshooter so to speak. His friend & engineer had just been killed due to a blast that should have never been...

Meri wanted revenge for his firend in his one & only robbery...


The two men were thin, one with a willowy frame & the other gaunt to the point of being called emaciated. Yet, they both walked with the grace & ease of gunmen. The wind blew the wisps of hair that had escaped from beneath their hats. The slightly taller gunman had red hair, red three-quarters length coat, & red kerchief which covered the lower part of his face. The other looked uncomfortable in his borrowed & somewhat ill fitting attire. If he wore his own clothes, the gaunt man's identity might well be all too apparent. He had a plain white kerchief to match his partner’s red. His wispy flaxen hair likewise blew beneath his own secondhand Stetson.

They came to a halt at the reinforced door behind which, held their prize, the R&R railroad’s payroll. The door was thick but both men had agreed that the lock could be “picked” by a round from the taller man’s Walker dragoon! They both nodded & drew their weapons. The gaunt gunman's eyes narrowed & he spoke with an accent that would put his origin far from the American West.

“I say! No one is to be hurt ole boy. I shouldn’t want this to get messy.” the man said crisply, as though he was use to having his way.

The taller red head just sighed “Ah been usin' an iron fer eighteen summers now n’ ah’m no fool neither. If’n they don’t fire nor will ah! Ah’ll do whits needin ta be done, nuthun more or less!”

Flaxen hair spoke next “Fair enough… I suppose. You must do the talking for reasons I shan’t explain.”

Red hair shook his head & made a sound of pure disgust “Ah ain’t dumb or nuthun! Ah know that. Ya jus stand there n’ keep the scatter gun covered.  Ah ain't no stranger ta this kinda work. Ah’ll handle my part. You ain’t done this afore have ya?”

Flaxen hair eyes’ narrowed again “I should say not!”

Red hair gave a loud hoot “No time like ta present!”

The Walker Dragoon blew a good size hole into the door, the lock held but the wood around it did not! The shot was followed by rough kick of Red Hair’s boot.

Both moved in quickly guns leveled at the two men inside. A scrawny bald man with rolled up sleeves of a white shirt was counting money. Another in the dark blue uniform of a railroad employee reached for a shotgun an arm’s length away.

Red hair shouted “Ah ain't gonna be say’n this twice! Nobody move n’ nobody dies!”

Flaxen hair’s pale blue eyes bore into the uniformed man’s own. There was fear there for certain. Flaxen Hair shook his head slowly. His twin navy colts flickered gracefully to the side. The message was clear without a spoken word.

MOVE AWAY NOW! OR BE SHOT!

Red Hair chuckled “Ther ain't gonna be no fussin. Jus do wot yer told. Put al that ther money n’ sacks n’ be quick bout it! Ah hope God grants ME patience o’ ah mit jus squeeze a trigger o’ three!”

The uniformed man stopped in mid reach for the shotgun. Though he didn’t back away either. Flaxen hair kept an eye on him, his white kerchief sucking in & blowing out. Beads of perspiration lined his forehead

The bald man stuttered “I… I… I mean… this is my responsibility. Its railroad money. I… I… I’ll lose my job Mister!”

Red hair chuckled again “Better’n los’n yer life ah reckon. Nough talk’n! Start pack’n that money ahway o’ yer dead with no worries!”

The bald man nodded nervously & began stuffing the money in rough burlap sacks. Seconds seemed like minutes & minutes like a lifetime! Somewhere along the line, the uniformed man swallowed hard & his eyes glanced toward the shotgun.

Flaxen hair shook his head again but kept silent. However, it was not enough. The man reached & his hands nearly made the stock. Twin colts fired & took the uniformed man in the chest & neck! The force knocked him back into the rough wooden wall. He slowly sagged to the floor.

Red hair swore “Dad gum! Mer… Dam!“

Red Hair nearly spat, facing the bald man with the money “Faster! Yeh Kin stay liv’n or die lik ‘im! Either way we be skeddadling! Weather yer liv’n o’ dead ‘s up ta ya!”

The smoke from the twin colts irritated an already grave condition. The Englishman blinked away the tears...

Hope you enjoyed it! Meri
This message was last edited by the player at 14:53, Sat 22 Aug 2009.

Fort Griffin is set circa 1877. The Flat was a fledging burg in 1872. We would have to advance at least 10 years (1875) to make FG a logical place, historically. I don't mind fudging a little, as we have in some cases already, but I wouldn't want to do so by more than a year or two. The 1877 marker is already fudged a bit--we at DHR consolidated historical businesses and events from a period of roughly 1872 - 1882, choosing the mid-point as the default setting.

I was actually thinking that advancing to FG could be the step after this one. That said, if enough people wanted to move 10 or 12 years ahead, I would be willing. I would just prefer to jump 6 or 7 years at this time.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg #16):

It was my starting money roll that kept me from a horse.  I even bought saddlebags.    I believe  6-7 years would have rectified that... and a saddle...and new pistols and rifle.

and 1 MILLION gold eagles.

and a steamboat.

with a saloon.

OK I'll settle for some folding cash a horse and saddle and some new shiny weapons.

Six or seven years now with a future stop in The Flat would be cool.

I like the idea of moving forward slowly, stoping in 1872 for whatever JM has in mind.

The stink down the well at the property where Artemus was working, what was that about?

In reply to Meriwether Lewis Smythe (msg #17):

Interesting, Meri. What time period is this? The years after GTTM? Actually, I was looking for Meri to do a little blazing fast gun play when some dirt ball needed it.

In reply to Meriwether Lewis Smythe (msg #17):

I enjoyed that Meri. See you in 1870 something.

Nothing. Anything. I just made that up on the spot. A dead critter was my gut inclination. It had nothing to do with the adventure. The Watson place is a complete ad-hoc. I drew the map and made up the details as we played.

Again, I suggest if you want to know more, buy the adventure and read it. It exists in both OGL and Savage Worlds.

I'm happy with Cole's character. I'm also happy with the genre (i.e. Wild West).

I don't have much of a preference as to time period. Makes little difference, to me. Advancing play 3 years or 10 doesn't alter things, from my point of view. An adventure is an adventure, regardless of the time period. For me, that's what's game play is all about -- adapting to the environment in which our characters are placed and reacting accordingly.

If I were to see some things change, it would be more along the lines of how the game is conducted, as opposed to the time period in which the game is conducted. For example:

1) I would see more tangible rewards for proper play. In essence, "treasure". Money, better weapons, horses, that kind of thing. Role-playing, for the sake of role-playing, is fine but the satisfaction level can only go so far. We played a very long time (real time) and didn't come out with any clear haul of treasure.

2) Die rolling, at times, seemed a bit much. I guess I tend to think that rolls should be primarily reserved for those times when circumstances are actively working against the player from succeeding at a certain action. For instance, searching for someone (in Cole's case, Hattie) when she wasn't actively hiding from him, should not require a "spot" check. Or, "navigate" rolls when a character is only traveling a day or so, in well marked terrain, should not be necessary. Another example is hunting/foraging. I would have preferred the judge summarize these activities, as a group. For instance, simply state to the party an acknowledgement that we have enough hunters to permit the judge to roll for the group, factoring in local conditions and individual skill levels, and coming up with a summary to be applied to the group.

3) I also would prefer more emphasis on role play versus book-keeping. Keeping track of rations (primarily) and ammunition (secondarily) was becoming a bit tedious. Don't get me wrong, I understand the need to keep track of that stuff, particularly during a battle (in the case of bullets), but dealing with that stuff on a daily basis was a bit tiresome. From time to time, I've thought of coming up with a sophisticated spreadsheet that would help ease the administrative burden of keeping track of rations, modifiers, bullets, skills and such (much like your PDF, but far more expansive), but I've not had the time to put into it.

4) I believe I've also made myself clear where I stand with respect to the over-use of OOC comments within the gaming forums. So, I won't re-hash all of that.

5) I read what Art wrote about game flow and I agree, in principal. However, I'm not sure that can be reasonably avoided with so many players, with different schedules and who likely live in different time zones. I have no objection to the judge moving things along, as circumstances permit, but I have difficulty seeing that working consistently. Still, it can work sometimes and that can only help game flow.

As a Judge, I really don't care much about "treasure" in a Wild West game. I'll be up front and say, I'm not going to focus on that. At the same time, I would also say I disagree with your assessment. During the adventure, your group did acquire valuable items--new guns, more ammo, food, a compass, a little money--indeed, significant items in my view. Just not enough to fill Cole's saddlebags to overflowing. If as a player you're looking for big bags of loot, GTTM will continue to disappoint you.


Your Hattie example is a poor one. She was indeed hiding, almost all the time. It's her best skill and one she used daily to stay alive while spying on the squatters.

In the larger sense, there are ways to reduce the die rolling. Personally, I enjoy the die rolling. That's always been a fun part of the RPG for me. Nevertheless, if a particular character wants to roll less, the Judge can roll more often for that PC, or that person can pre-roll a bunch of rolls and I'll use them. I'm happy to accommodate in that regard.


First, I think we did PLENTY of roleplaying. I don't think book-keeping overshadowed the roleplaying at all.

Second, I believe it's important to do book-keeping in this type of game. Especially ammunition. You won't change my mind about that particular element. Although, if we are playing an adventure where food is plentiful or readily available, I'm not going to sweat that element as much. In the Jonas adventure, food was a real issue and part of the plot. Read the adventure and you will see that was written into it from the beginning. Logical for the circumstances and key to surviving the adventure.


I sort of wish you would. I find that annoying as well.

Actually, it should, because Bart and Buck would be 10 years older in 10 years. Bart might  be dead--or at least a lot slower. Buck would be out of his prime. Probably still alive, although assuming Cole continued to adventure over the years, that is also debatable.

Even in 7 years, that would make a big difference to a dog. Bart would probably be lazin' on a farm somewhere, snoozing away the afternoon.