Joke, joke, joke, joke, joke.  Just joshin wit ya in your own words.

 "A man's got to have a code, a creed to live by, no matter his job."
-- John Wayne

 "The Code of the West was a gentleman's agreement to certain rules of conduct. It was never written into the statutes, but it was respected everywhere on the range."
-- Ramon F. Adams

May I propose an easy template?  I don't see how something complicated is going to work.  Simply, the one with the talent takes the lead.  Let's say Little One has tracking and we need to find a calf.  Well, LO will lead us and we follow his (I'm assuming you're a 'he' but if I'm wrong, sorry) directions.  If Travis is security officer again, he sets the watch and we don't argue.  If Cole is in charge of survival, he sets the rotations and areas to hunt.  Again, the one with the talent takes the lead.  JEB has the diplomacy, I know Randy is gonna keep his mouth shut and be ready to back up the smooth-talker if things go sour.  Above all, no questions on the lead's authority, especially in front of potential friends and foes alike.

Below is a Code of the West I found at www.legendsofamerica.com.  Just for fun.  No need to read unless you wanna.

 * Don't inquire into a person's past. Take the measure of a man for what he is today.
 * Never steal another man's horse. A horse thief pays with his life.
 * Defend yourself whenever necessary.
 * Look out for your own.
 * Remove your guns before sitting at the dining table.
 * Never order anything weaker than whiskey.
 * Don't make a threat without expecting dire consequences.
 * Never pass anyone on the trail without saying "Howdy".
 * When approaching someone from behind, give a loud greeting before you get within shooting range.
 * Don't wave at a man on a horse, as it might spook the horse. A nod is the proper greeting.
 * After you pass someone on the trail, don't look back at him.  It implies you don't trust him.
 * Riding another man's horse without his permission is nearly as bad as making love to his wife.  Never even bother another man's horse.
 * Always fill your whiskey glass to the brim.
 * A cowboy doesn't talk much; he saves his breath for breathing.
 * No matter how weary and hungry you are after a long day in the saddle, always tend to your horse's needs before your own, and get your horse some feed before you eat.
 * Cuss all you want, but only around men, horses and cows.
 * Complain about the cooking and you become the cook.
 * Always drink your whiskey with your gun hand, to show your friendly intentions.
 * Do not practice ingratitude.
 * A cowboy is pleasant even when out of sorts. Complaining is what quitters do, and cowboys hate quitters.
 * Always be courageous. Cowards aren't tolerated in any outfit worth its salt.
 * A cowboy always helps someone in need, even a stranger or an enemy.
 * Never try on another man's hat.
 * Be hospitable to strangers. Anyone who wanders in, including an enemy, is welcome at the dinner table. The same was true for riders who joined cowboys on the range.
 * Give your enemy a fighting chance.
 * Never wake another man by shaking or touching him, as he might wake suddenly and shoot you.
 * Real cowboys are modest.  A braggert who is "all gurgle and no guts" is not tolerated.
 * Always fill your whiskey glass to the brim.
 * Be there for a friend when he needs you.
 * Drinking on duty is grounds for instant dismissal and blacklisting.
 * A cowboy is loyal to his "brand," to his friends, and those he rides with.
 * Never shoot an unarmed or unwarned enemy. This was also known as "the rattlesnake code": always warn before you strike. However, if a man was being stalked, this could be ignored.
 * Never shoot a woman no matter what.
 * Consideration for others is central to the code, such as: Don't stir up dust around the chuckwagon, don't wake up the wrong man for herd duty, etc.
 * Respect the land and the environment by not smoking in hazardous fire areas, disfiguring rocks, trees, or other natural areas.
 * Honesty is absolute - your word is your bond, a handshake is more binding than a contract.
 * Live by the Golden Rule.

I knew you were joking. But you didn't think I was going to pass up the chance to press my point, did you?


That would serve a portion of a template, I think, and probably effectively. But I think you would be hard pressed to apply that to everything. E.g. the group visits a saloon; the hero with the Hollow Leg feat leads because he has the talent for drinking alcohol. Heavy drinking and trouble ensue.

I think you need other considerations in the template, because it's not always about who is leading what.

I've seen various "codes of the west." Most of those published acknowledge that such a code was unwritten. But I applaud Randy on bringing up the points. It shows that there is a wide range of points you could incorporate into your group template.

A discussion and agreement on this group's code is what I continue to stress.

What specific information would make you better able to prepare adventures and encounters, satisfy the story arcs you create and handle absenteeism?

What aspects of party play/activity/philosophy would you like better defined/understood?  Would you be willing to categorize?

I can't go on.  I laughed so hard milk came out of my nose... and I am drinking coffee!

I've got dibs on this one...sounds like a job for Silas!

Filtering the Coffee out in your nose Randy? What kind of cowpoke even puts milk in his coffee? ;-)

I actually think Randy has a point which should make it into the template, if you ask me. I left out the hat colours, on the Judge's request:

Group Template
1) Most of us hombres fall within the neutral / neutral with good tendencies spectrum.
2) Group decisions are made via quick debate and then action.
  2a) Individuals may still act to the contrary if it is within character.
3) Once committed see it through - unless there is new information of course
4) One for all and all for one
5) The one with the talent takes the lead - common sense applies.
6)

Game requirements Please edit #4 and #5 with your inits to confirm
1) Randy Oldman and Little One have Perform Skill
2) 1 Diplomacy ("Little One" has taken Diplomacy, JEB too?)
3) 2 Navigate (JEB has 1, Silas has)
4) All require Ride (RO, LO, , , , )
5) All require 2 Knowledge skills with 2 ranks minimum each (RO, , , , , )
6) Little One is able to track and treat wounds.

As to Travis' question, no, I'm not going to layout categories or ask you to pick one from column A and one from column B. I will provide my thoughts as part of the conversation.

I'm not interested in character "alignment." In the old west that could change as a man might be an outlaw in Wichita and a lawman in Denver. I wish we could get off the hat/alignment train. It seems clear that your group has good-leaning tendencies, but not "goodie-goodie". Okay. So find a way to say that simply, or with western flavor if you like, that provides an agreeable code for all players.

Maybe "Ain't none of us inclined to ill deeds, although some of us been known to fall into mischief."

Try to establish some rule or understanding for resolving disputes when your good-nature is ailin'.

As both Randy and Travis pointed out, ideas on leadership or chain of command is good.

Some general mores wouldn't hurt, especially if they have western flavor, similar to some of the items in the code Randy quoted.

Your current list isn't bad, even with my dismay over #1. I already said if you voted on whatever you got, I'd be satisfied.

Whatever state we're in with the list is academic for now.  We need others to chime in - others who haven't been able to log in lately.  I'm sure we'll hear from them soon, but we do need to hear from them.  JM can call a halt to debate at any time, of course.  Since we're off a bit from starting the adventure, this is all academic for now.

I agree that others still need to chime in.

I disagree with your conclusion that this is academic right now. I'm not going to start the adventure until such an agreement is in place. So, the adventure depends on this agreement. Of course, it also depends on people updating their characters, which is starting to drag on (2 weeks since I posted the 3-level advancement and not everyone has done the upgrade) so you have a point there. Nevertheless, if you want to wait to come to an agreement, then that is also delaying the adventure.

Mostly, people have been logging in regularly. Only two players haven't logged in within the last 24 hours. If we are to stick to the 24 hour rule, and they miss a vote, well . . . the trail can be a hard place, pard.

Awrighty.  I  suggest we take the template no further'n Sunday night.  We gotsta git a move on an' put up our o-pinions sooner'n later.

I is right out happy with the template so far.  I's hopin' we can figger what we needs to do far as leadin' an' followin'.  I ain't good with words, so I's hopin' you fellers can put pen to paper an' hash it out.  I's got your backs, you bet.

Hey all! Meri is just slow or was kicked in the head (maybe a few times in the last few years) for I do not really know how to add anything to the list. I have read it & liked it. However, I have read & liked the other ones too. My mind is just a little out of whack right now. Work has been a bit much with me putting in 91/2 to 10 hours everyday, & then running to soccer practice & piano lessons afterward. I do not/ can not get on the computer everyday during the day like some, though it would be nice.

I will still try to advance Meri by this weekend if that is still acceptable. I would really like to help but right now my mind can not wrap around it. If that is putting a strain on the game or when it starts please let me know. I will withdraw Meri as this is not my intention. I am willing to go along with the majority with whatever we decide. Cheers Meri

No, no, no.  Randy's gotta make the acquaintance of Meri.  We're not trying to get characters sorted out by this weekend, just the template.

You players can figure out the timeline. We will start whenever everyone has upgraded their characters and there is an agreement in place.

Meri, there's no reason to drop out. I understand your situation. Your statement that you will go along with the majority is enough for now. It sounds like you will be amenable to whatever code is adopted.

Silas is all updated mechanically and I've been giving the template deal a lot of thought this week. We keep going back and forth, forth and back here and I think that was one of the issues with the gameplay...it took us a long while to come to a consensus on some actions. I think rightfully so JM sees the template as a way to fix that to some degree so even if we aren't on the same page we are at least in the same book.

More thoughts and input later...

FYI to Silas, Randy, Travis and Little One,
I have reviewed your character stats and mostly things look good. There might be one or two things I would need to revisit with each of you, but nothing major. I'm going to look at them again this weekend and we should be able to get them finalized (assuming you aren't considering any further changes yourselves).

The latest version of the group template is fine, except for 2a since that's what led to controversy in the first place. We're overthinking this here, compadres.  While I understand JM's insistence on a template going forward to prevent bottlenecks in the process as we've had in the past, I think to a great extent we've already created an unwritten template.  Historical issues of contention were simply the result of getting to know each other and our individual styles of role playing (including the JM's).  Although we've been at this for more than a year, our group was experiencing new situations as late as a month ago (our first big battle).  I think the learning curve is behind us now and going forward we will act more cohesively as a team.  Nonetheless, number one on the template should be strict adherence to the democratic process.  The group majority decision is the rule of the day.  If a PC does not agree with the group decision in gameplay, we must all agree now to put egos aside, keep opinions to ourselves and get with the program, so to say. There will be no lone wolves.  Now that doesn't mean lively debate during the decision making process is discouraged, as I found this aspect of the game quite enjoyable at times.  But we must all agree to bear with the group consensus and agree to disagree, if that is the case, in a reasonable amount of time.  The JM will adjudicate 'reasonable amount of time' on a case-by-case basis and JM will have the authority to call for a final vote if there is a filibuster in process.  There's been some good work here, so let's put this behind us and vote now on the template:

Group Template
1) Neutral / neutral with good tendencies spectrum
2) Group decisions are made via quick debate and then action
3) Group consensus carries the rule of law
4) JM has the authority to call for group vote; majority vote is final
5) Once committed see it through
6) One for all and all for one
7) The one with the talent takes the lead - common sense applies

OOC: edited for double 6s. Thanks Randy.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:40, Sat 05 Sept 2009.

Jeb, I think you are as Meri would say- Spot on! I agree whole heartily. Cheers Meri

As far as I'm concerned, I agree with the template as JEB put it. Not sure if i get to vote already, but if I do: It's a YES!

In reply to James E. Beauregard (msg #193):

I vote yes.  Though the rule of law comment is a bit vague for a bunch of neutrals but I say sure.

In reply to James E. Beauregard (msg #193):

Double Sixes, Woo hoo.

Randy's got your back on it.  No wonder JEB has Diplomacy.

Neutrals can follow the laws; chaotics don't need no stinkin' laws.

Question:  Masterwork pluses for firearms are exclusively for 'to hit."

That's not a question. It's a statement.

But yes, for firearms, that statement is generally true.

EDIT: Actually, I spoke too soon. See below.
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:30, Sun 06 Sept 2009.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg #200):



Oh.  let me rephrase...

Are masterwork pluses for firearms exclusively for 'to hit," ...bitch?

:)

I love that old joke.

Actually, no.

For example, "Hair trigger" doesn't provide a plus to hit. It gives a bonus to initiative.

The effective mastercraft "plusses" are a way to measure the difficulty of the modification. The mod may give different results.
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:31, Sun 06 Sept 2009.