Earlier, I mentioned that we could do a post-mortem, as we did after the Johnny adventure.

The Judge is willing to discuss selected topics about the cattle drive, if anyone cares to ask questions. Of course, players are free to discuss among themselves.

I have no expectations for this forum, I created it for any of the players who might want to discuss (OOC) the adventure now that it is done, or for any particular questions you might ask me to address. I won't be leading the conversation, but will participate if one starts.

Thanks again for playing. Please keep the game on your sticky list.

Please make a donation to RPoL, if you haven't made one already.

I’m curious as to the dynamic between Fielder and the Major from JM’s point of view. Would you mind elaborating a bit?

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg #2):

Yes.  What secrets did we never learn?

My intial answers are:

There were no secrets whatsoever. Some, maybe all, of the PCs seemed to have convinced themselves that there were secrets to be learned. The PCs were incorrect, on that point.

If you have a particular question about something you thought held a secret, I would be happy to address that item.

In regard to the Major and Fielder, the request to elablorate on the "dynamic" between the two men is somewhat vague. If there is something in particular you want to know about them or their interactions, then please pose a more specific question. I will say this in general: They were both cattle men protecting their stock. Nothing complicated, really.

I, particularly found it hilarious that Art assumed some secret plan was afoot.  What I mean, when Randy spoke with Cole and JEB privately, they discussed a plan.  Then, after hearing all the paranoia from Art, neither JEB nor Cole set an end to it.

I think those two were having a damn good laugh at all our expense.

---

Now, a question for Cole: Why did you lead the advance party in circles, literally, just outside of town?

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg #4):

What did the Major and Fielder chat about at the end.

What was the expected response regarding the Comancheros who rustled our cattle.

The cattle segregation at the end, the threat of which precipitated much planning angst and near death experiences, seemed pretty simple to navigate.  Red Herring, misunderstanding, divine intervention or did PC actions shape the encounter?

Did we miss any interesting encounters?

At one point Art was able to overhear some of the conversation that took place right after the shooting. Art could only here bits but it sounded casual and conversational like old friends talking, and it didn’t seem to be about the current situation.

It’s also clear from the way events unfolded that the “shoot the ranchers” plan that was presented to Art after he got out of jail was created in the minds of other PCs and not something the Major ever told Cole or the others.

I found the  “shoot the beeves ourselves” plan to be quite ironic.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg #6):

Here are some of my lingering questions/comments, in no particular order:

1) I am also interested in the content of Major Gray's and Fielder's conversation. Since they seemed to know each other, why didn't Major Gray broker an agreement much earlier himself?

2) At the parlay with Yuma, why didn't Major Gray send his best negotiator? Instead he sent his gunslingers with predictable results.

3) Every town the NBO encountered had a weapons ordinance. I have not done the research yet, but how common were such laws during that time?  A comment to the NBO: why didn't we just sneak into town with our guns? It's not a walled castle after all.

These come to mind at this time. I may read back over the text and have more comments later.

In reply to Randy Oldman (msg #5):

Cole's plan was, in his mind,fairly simple. To position the advance party in such a manner as to impair/discourage any attempted frontal assault on the herd. Essentially, to force any attackers to place themselves between the advance party and the herd.

So, the purpose of the scouting was to find an ideal position from which to guard he herd.

As it happens, as anticipated, the "attack" did indeed come from the front of the herd. Had the advance party been behind them, as  planned, Cole's plan would have unfolded as designed.

Not to say it would have been successful, but that was the plan, nonetheless.

The Judge's mind swoons. The PC perceptions are fascinating.

I'm going to begin answering these in no particular order. I expect to get to all of these questions. Please remain patient but if I haven't addressed your particular question within a few days, ask again because I that means I somehow overlooked it.

This has come up a couple of times, so I will elaborate on this in particular, as it might answer a lot, including the Major's decision to shoot beeves. NOTE: I said "decision." Not "plan." That misconception in the PC minds, I think, is the source of everyone's confusion. There was never a plan to shoot beeves. The Major had no intention of shooting his own cattle. He decided that in the moment, based on the circumstances.

Major Gray and Fielder had never met. Both men had heard of each other. They were famililar only in the moment. Both men had cattle concerns. Fielder told you face-to-face his concern. There was no deceit in his words. Texas Fever.

http://www.tshaonline.org/hand...nline/articles/awt01

When push came to shove, the Major saw that only a few beeves were still running. The shooting had broken out by the time he got there. His immediate analysis of the situtation: kill these two beeves and the bloodshed stops.

When a man lay dying and the beeves were under control, the Major decided to parlay. His knowledge about Fielder had been improved by the PCs efforts, including some information that the PCs didn't know about--but that they could have pieced together. Gunther, whose role in the situation was introduced by JEB and Father Deeds, gave the Major excellent information about Fielder, his actions, the general mood in Abilene and Fielder's intentions. It became clear to the Major that Fielder was no different than him. A cattle man protecting his stock. The shooting over, talking comes next.

The men discussed their common ground. Each had displayed to the other a willingness to resolve the issue without a range war. Fielder--his genuine concern being his cattle--sent men to help push the longhorns away from his herd. The Major--his genuine concern being his longhorns--had sacrificed two beeves (the same price he paid to the tribes during the pass through the Territory). Once the men came face-to-face, they talked about cattle, the shame of the young Henry's possible mortal wounds, and they agreed to live and let live.

When the advance party left Wichita, the Major didn't know much about Fielder, except gossip. Maybe, a deal could have been brokered, but there was no pre-existing relationship. That is an invention of the PCs. The advance party could indeed have brokered a deal. The Major sent them to ensure safe passage. He didn't say how. But the men didn't offer anything that Fielder could understand as a good deal for him. Giving him longhorns? The very thing he feared? Gold in exchange for the end of his herd?

When JEB used his skills with Fielder, I thought the adventure might be over right then. But it went south because the PCs pressed way too hard. As I explained to JEB (and he publicly indicated "overplaying his hand") Fielder wanted to help because of the diplomacy, but based on the PC speech and action, the rancher thought that the best way he could help was to take his men and leave before someone got killed.

I would also suggest that Artemus share exactly what he overheard, from a few dozen yards away.


Part of the answer to this question speaks to a fundamental misconception. There was no expected response. There was no expected response, on the Judge's part, in any encounter. The Judge merely introduced encounters. He had no pre-conception as to the character actions or a given resolution. Everything that happened, happened because the PCs made it happen. Of course, I had ideas about what the PCs might do and considered possible outcomes. But I never once engineered an outcome. I let things happen, with only a minor stimulus to set the stage.

The next part of my answer involves my own questions.

Why do you think the Comancheros rustled the cattle? Why did you respond the way you did?


I reckon that some of my previous rambling addresses this. But to reiterate: There was no plan in the Judge's mind. There was no plan in the Major's mind, except to get the beeves to Abilene. When the trail boss realized that it was a matter of keeping the beeves from straying west (a fact spoken aloud by Fielder to the advance party) he took actions to make that happen. It could have been very different, even at the stage at which a battle eventually occurred. If more of the beeves had run loose, the Major wouldn't have decided to shoot his own beeves. To him, two beeves was worth peace; a hundred beeves not so much.

So, I would say that it was mostly a misunderstanding by the PCs, to answer this question directly. You all expected a fight. The Judge had no "plan" for a fight. It was a possible outcome, but not necessary. Not expected. Because of the visibility of the advance party--and the visibility of Fielder's men--over the course of several days, and the fact that Gunther was involved and helped his acquaintance the Major to understand Fielder's intentions, the trail boss decided to push through. It became a matter of cowboying. Was the group good enough to keep 1500 beeves in line night and day? As it turns out, just barely.

So, bear in mind that this could ended a variety of ways, including some of the ways that PCs put forth (e.g. storm Fielder's ranch pre-emptively). The way it ended was a result of the PC perceptions of the problem they faced and the actions they took.


You experienced every encounter that the Judge had planned. However, the way turned out they way the did because of character actions.

I believe I covered this in the previous message.


I gave JEB my thoughts on this privately, earlier. The Major sent the only individual who spoke Cheyenne (Meri). That person just happened to be a gunslinger. The Major sent Travis, Meri's wingman, because it made sense to send a gunslinger to back up a gunslinger when the Major expected it would end up being a fight.


First, your statement is incorrect. Fort Worth didn't have a weapons ordinance. You may recall that JEB and Travis got into a gunfight in Fort Worth and killed a man, because you had weapons on you and that's the kind of thing that happened when cowboys got drunk (the fight was started by a cowboy full as a tick).

Second, there is plenty of evidence to show that towns in the Old West often (not always) had weapons ordinances. Abilene and Wichita positive among them.

Lastly, I would also like to know the answer to JEB's question to the rest of the NBO?

Definitely ironic. But it WASN'T A PLAN.

Indeed, I don't think there is any evidence of the Major telling anyone to shoot the ranchers.

This is inaccurate from the judge's point of view. There was no attack. I suspect an argument could be made that the ranchers shooting at the stray beeves was an "attack," but I don't see it that way.

Even so, the battle that started because the ranchers tried to shoot two beeves occurred on the left flank while the beeves were grazing. It didn't come from the front of the herd.

As you wish. . . [From a PM:]

What determined the number of cattle that broke to the left flank? (Was that a die roll?)

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg #16):

It was in part a die roll. The Judge used a relative DC to determine the effectiveness of each cowboy doing the herding and the group as a whole. I set benchmarks for the number of DC 15 (usually) successes needed to keep everything calm. I somewhat arbitrarily determined the number of fleeing beeves (which had already happened before final encounter with Fielder), based on the PC (and NPC) Handle Animal checks. The terrain and the current conditions also mattered (the time the herd got split going around one of the hills as an example). So I had benchmarks in mind and then adjudicated for each case. Essentially, I looked at it as a measure of "dozens" and I included language to that effect in the descriptions.

Without the help of Fielder's hands, there probably would have been more renegades.

Imagine Fielder, with his men in the night saying something like:

"Damnation. I don't a range war, but we can't those longhorns anywhere near our herd. Frank, Wendell, Sam, get out there and help those cowboys or they'll be hell to pay for all of us."

Oh yes, and while on the topic, I had set a 50/50 (odds/evens) chance for a stampede to start. I let the PCs roll some of those checks depending on their position. Interestingly, aside from the renegade beeves, none of the others panicked.

EDIT: Clarity
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:40, Mon 23 May 2011.