Here we go.

And he hasn't, 'cause the Judge did.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 2):

Nor can he be second...

It's been more than 24 hours since the Judge's last narrative post. ENS needs to post in the next 24 hours, or another PC needs to post on his behalf in the same time frame.

Jake is closest to the professor at this time; if Jake is willing it makes most sense to the Judge for him to step in, if needed.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 4):

Editing post

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 5):

Sorry all, work's been a bugger this week!

Jake's post for ENS is fine as is... Thanks Jake!

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 6):

Thanks for the post, ENS. Glad to see your validation of Jake's post on the professor's behalf. The Judge is adjudicating the round.

No worries! Hope that work slows down for you.

Thanks to all for posting within 48 hours. The Judge will adjudicate this next a.m.

It's been 48 hours since the Judge's last narrative; ENS is the remaining player to post. The professor himself or another PC needs to post within 24 hours or the Judge will proceed with the professor standing still for a moment and mulling over the current situation.

Merry Christmas, my pards!

It has been 24 hours since the Judge's last narrative. Two PCs remain to post (Jake and Travis). As it was a holiday weekend, the Judge will give a little more time for their posts, before asking for other PCs to post. Look for another message later today for the "24-hour-warning").

(BTW, no players had informed the Judge of being unable to post during the holidays . . .)

Re: Chapter 19, msg #1 and Fort Saves.

Remember that a Fort Save may be modified by Action Points. Remember that, as per page 49, characters with at least 8th level may roll 2d6 when using an Action Point, keeping the highest of the two dice as a result.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 13):

If this is a sonic attack can one use evasion.  Asking for a friend.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 14):

Evasion applies to "any effect that normally allows a character to attempt a Reflex saving throw." This is a Fortitude saving throw, so . . . no.

Having said that, any class features or feats that apply to "Fortitude saving throws" would be used.
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:02, Thu 28 Dec 2017.

A couple of things:

Reminder that we are in free posting mode now. The Judge won't be providing narrative summaries. The Judge is currently playing Lu Heng Bo. Xu's man will help any PCs who are working to figure out the way forward, based on his knowledge of the situation -- which isn't all knowing, e.g., he doesn't know about the hatch that Travis discovered. The highbinder knows some things that the PCs don't, e.g., he knows the essence of Mr. Xu's plan to move the women once in the boat, but he can't know whether any lawmen, fishermen or other citizens came to the cave-explosion site or whether Xu and his boat will be at the appointed place at this time. Therefore, the PCs need to lead the way forward -- which the PCs have started, the Judge is simply endeavoring to be clear about that.

The results of the Fort Save against hearing loss:

• Cole 13 total (25%)
• Travis 12 total (25%)
• ENS 21 total (10%)
• Jake 15 total (25%)
• JEB 26 total (10%)
• Art 20 total (10%)

For now, the temporary hearing loss is still making speech impossible. To facilitate game-play, the Judge will state that this condition will persist for several minutes before any of the men regain any degree of normal hearing. The PCs must continue the process of communicating non-verbally on order to continue their mission to rescue the captives. As of now, the Judge views that mission as incomplete.

A reminder.
The players are in control of moving the plot forward, right now. Nothing is stopping any PC from posting narrative to advance. No one should be waiting for the Judge.

Time again for my weekly reminder. Post in the game forum to unsubscribe.

FYI, news from RPoL:

link to a message in another game

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 19):

Interesting. Sounds like it's a done deal at this point, based upon the two posts from jase in the "RPoL Announcements" thread this morning.
This message was lightly edited by the player at 16:22, Wed 31 Jan 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 19):

So you're saying I should reduce my annual contribution by 60%.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 21):

The Judge said nothing of the sort. I simply referred you to a message from the RPoL admins.

The Judge does in fact make an annual contribution to RPoL. You should see my username on the next report of donations.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:35, Thu 01 Feb 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 22):

I was kidding. Sheesh

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 23):

So was I. Hehehehehe (except about making a donation -- do you?)

Started "Altered Carbon" any other takers? Has me itchin' for bit the 'ole Cyberpunk.

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 25):

May have to dust off my campaign.  I'm enjoying the series.  6 episodes in.  now on Olympics hiatus.

The Judge perceives a lack of enthusiasm for the this stage of the adventure. If there is little interest in playing out the rest of rescue of the slaves (which from the Judge's point of view is really the hard part of the adventure), then the Judge will fade to black and we start talking about what's next.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 27):

I have no lack of interest but until the group assembles topside I don't see what else is to be done.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 27):

I'm not disintrested. I'm the rearguard, can't hear and so can't communicate at distance, and have no insight into the happenings topside.

The Judge can think of a few things. For one, the group could have sent out a scout -- in the end, the Judge had to act on his own with Lu Heng Bo to advance that notion.

Brings to mind a famous gaming quote among some circles . . .

"There's nothing I can do."

It's worth noting that a few PCs haven't been logging in regularly, recently, as well. The Judge perceives that as lack of interest, but perhaps he is mistaken and it is a temporary thing. The Judge is going to advance narrative daily (as he has done in the last few days already).
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:13, Fri 16 Feb 2018.

Iffin' anyone is interested, the Judge and his pard K. from DHR were guests, recently:

https://thewilddie.podbean.com...pisode-fort-griffin/

This is for our release of Fort Griffin Savaged -- a revisioning of our original three volume of products into a full town setting for Savage Worlds.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:28, Wed 21 Feb 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 31):

Awesome.  I enjoyed playing Savage Worlds.

The Judge has updated the main game map to show the beach (in its raw state), at a PC request.

Apologies for any recent delays in posting. It was a busy weekend.

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 34):

Weekend? That was 5 days ago . . .

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 35):

See?!?

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 33):

where is the rabbit hole from which we've emerged?

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 37):

Off map, to the west. On the other side of bluffs.

Moving this here:

OOC: Honestly I'd like to run some analytics on the their die roller, I consistently get the shitiest rolls.

----------

So having cast dispersions on the die roller, I did run analytics on the rolls visible in the die roller at this time. This was for every roll for everyone.

.5 was the average for which I was looking.

and...

I got this: 0.508031088

Perception being more important than reality, I maintain that I consistently get the shitiest rolls.

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 39):

Well-analyzed and well-said. We believe what we want to believe. Facts, evidence and analysis be damned.

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 39):

It is interesting that you perceived that with the die roller. I had nearly the opposite experience. During the fight in the cavern, I had some ridiculously great, consecutive rolls. So much so, I was beginning to think that something was up with my browser.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 40):

In the Intelligence Community we say "Confirmation Bias is the most powerful force in the universe."

The Judge is traveling on business this week. This might slow down Judge follow-ups and posts.

Looking through a cyberpunk game from 2013. Here's a shot I took at tech noir and humor. I thought it interesting.

In the brick alley neon lights reflected from myriad small puddles illuminating it like downtown Macau. The air was fresh, rain having washed away the smokey smell of the clubs. The wide backdoor swung open, smoke and music and dancing lights poured from the opening, a thickly muscled man stepped into the alley holding a large umbrella. “Looks like the rain stopped, sir” he said collapsing it.

Gray stepped out, drained the last of his cocktail and handed the glass to the doorman. “Thank you” Gray said slipping him several folded bills. “Where’s your car?” one of the women asked. “There Babs” and Gray gestured to large black sedan rolling towards them. The windows were blacked out and lights illuminated as it rolled to a stop. “I’m Babs” said the other woman. “She’s Trixie.” The back door swung open Gray patted them on the fanny as the women climbed in. “Whatever.” He said and the door closed behind him. The sedan slid off into the night and doorman lit a cigarette.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:42, Fri 02 Mar 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 43):

The Judge got stuck in NYC. Insert your favorite curses here.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 45):

My curse: May you arrive home safely! Enjoy the extra time.

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 44):

Very cool -- thanks for sharing. As a Cyberpunk enthusiast, are you keeping an eye on CD Projekt Red's Cyberpunk 2077 game?

Sorry to hear it. But there are worse places to be stuck. Then again, there are better ones, too.

Hope you escape soon.

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 47):

No, I haven't explored it, do you like it?

Home again, home again, jiggety-jig.

For the record, the Judge is waiting for ENS and JEB to advance the conversation as it will impact any possible plot advancements.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 51):

Apologies, I had intended to log on Sun, but got caught up in home PC business and completely spaced it!

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 52):

Thanks for the note . . . it would help if the professor and lawman got into a better posting rhythm. This is tenth RL day since JEB started the conversation between the two men.

As the conversation would be relatively and logically brief compared to travel if the party were to continue with Lu's plan, the Judge is sort of forced to wait for the PCs to move that portion of the plot forward.

For now, the Judge isn't letting this interfere with Carson's attempt to distract the lawmen. But it would have taken Art a few minutes to navigate to the beach as he described and so his interaction with the policemen may end up needing to be slow-walked depending on the rest of the group's actions.

For the record, the Judge has no objections to the PC conversation. It is simply -- in the Judge's perspective -- happening as if my character in Fallout 4 injected himself with Jet and slowed time enough to see all possible futures while executing none.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:22, Wed 07 Mar 2018.

I believe some players know this, but DHR's new product is on sale. We were #3 on the Western "Hottest" list at one site, just dropped to #4. An extra sale or two from my pards would help keep us on the "Hottest" list for a spell.

If you have a notion to help a pard, send me a PM. And please do jaw about us with all the cowpokes at the bunkhouse or saloon.
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:07, Wed 07 Mar 2018.

As edited 3/9/18
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:19, Fri 09 Mar 2018.

Seeing as the game has slowed down a mite while waiting for PC posts, the Judge has been thinking about a next chapter, after the conclusion of this one.

Because of my role in the DHR Fort Griffin Savaged product, I have an interest in playing a western adventure using the Savage Worlds Deluxe rules instead of the Sidewinder: Recoiled rules.

Something in particular I have been considering is an 'alternate reality' adventure, where the current PCs --at their current stage of development -- are all rebuilt using SWD character creation and we play the adventure in the Judge's Savaged setting (not Fort Griffin, a different adventure). I mentioned the idea to a player or two, already. I had considered introducing this as part of the Tong Cave scene (it would have been different than what you recently played), but decided to play this one out without such a "forced" transition and then bring it up at a more appropriate time.

Savage Worlds motto is "Fast. Furious. Fun." Obviously it would take time to learn the rules and re-create the characters, which is why I'm starting the conversation now. Since some of you barely know the rules anyway, maybe it's not a big obstacle to re-create SWD characters (with help from yours truly and any other SWD knowledgeable players/pards).

Thoughts are welcome.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 56):

I'm in if for no other reason than to help the Judge play-test. Can you provide a reader digest version of the crunch differences?

OOC: http://downloads.ice.ucdavis.e...nner/archive1008.PDF

Came across this while researching what Art would know about the area. Supposin' you pards would know as well.

AC

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 57):

No.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 59):

Or not..

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 60):

The Judge ain't one to mince words. :)

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 56):

I’m in.

In reply to James E. Beauregard (msg # 62):

So far, it seems there is at least a general level of interest in an alternate reality chapter with SWD. The Judge would like to hear from all the players.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 63):

I'd be down for it!

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 63):

I'll play, as long as it is okay that I am a Savage Worlds newbie.

Don't even own the rule-book yet [although one is on order, in anticipation of our "wrinkle in Time" undertaking (although hopefully it will be only the bad men who get undertook)].

I'm in.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 56):

I'm in. Character conversion to SW should be relatively easy as it is going from more detail to less.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 67):

Not really, in the Judge's view. Character creation is much the same in SWD. You determine attributes, choose skills, choose edges and hindrances, choose gear. When you level up, you apply leveling up benefits to attributes, or choose skills, or choose edges and hindrances, etc. I will agree that it is a more streamlined process, but I disagree that it has less detail.
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:11, Mon 12 Mar 2018.

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 65):

FYI, I'm a complete Savage Worlds newbie as well!

Sounds like a consensus, noob's or not.

The current ruleset is Savage Worlds Deluxe. It will be best if you own a copy of it. It can be purchased in both pdf and printed book formats. I see discount prices for both at various times from various vendors.

If you already have a previous version, such as SW Explorer's Edition, you could build your character sufficiently with that iffin' those were your druthers.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 70):

FYI, one Setting Rule the Judge will employ is that Grit remains a skill, as it was in SWEX, even though notably removed from SWD. Important for building your character.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 71):

On vacation this week; best efforts to login daily.

In reply to James E. Beauregard (msg # 72):

Thanks for the heads-up.

The Judge is fascinated by the whisper game being played in the game forum, having seen the facts change significantly as one PC communicates with another based on the Judge’s prior post.

See if you can spot it.

Judge #211
Jake #214
ENS #217

The Judge would also be curious to hear if any of the players posting in that timeframe noticed this without the Judge’s prompting.

You are correct, sir! That was indeed how I (and Jake) had interpreted ENS's post #212. Thanks for covering for me. :)

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 74):

Huh, no one interested in this OOC topic (see quoted note)?
(except Jake, who discussed in PM).

I reckon that tells the Judge something.

The Judge is traveling on business this week; my daily logins should continue.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 76):

I guess I'm not sure what you mean? We had a little action order hiccup that I think we corrected.

Or are you referring to ENS' actions?

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 78):

The Judge's post had nothing to do with the "action order hiccup." The reference was to specific facts that changed during the course of PC posts following the Judge's narrative. In the 3 messages to which I referred, a fact was initially stated and by the time ENS spoke to JEB, the fact had changed by several orders of magnitude.

It is moot at this point, game-wise. I just thought it was fascinating to see what happened. I guess it's just me that finds it fascinating.

The Judge is happy to explain what he witnessed, but wanted to give players a chance to see it for themselves.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 79):

I guess, by my reckoning, I sort of 'inserted' my message to account for Jake's statement to ENS. I see the 'corrected' message order as follows:
211
212 "ENS moves to the front of the column"
214
217 line 1
212 (the rest)
213
217 (the rest)

... as a result, the only change I see is the inserted exchange between Jake and ENS. Am I missing something?

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 80):

Awaiting pm response from JM to continue posting.

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 80):

Totally missing it, you are. As I stated in msg 79, this topic has NOTHING to do with the order of posts or anything like that.

The PC statements changed a fact, significantly, that was originally stated by the Judge.

------------------

In msg 211 the Judge said the rider on the hill was "50 yards away"
In msg 214 Jake told ENS that the rider was a "off to the west a mite" (my red emphasis on the 't')
In msg 217 ENS told Travis that the rider was "west of us, about a mile" (my red emphasis on the 'l')

So by the time Travis heard the report, it had changed from 50 yards (150 feet) to a mile (5,280 feet)!
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:15, Wed 28 Mar 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 82):

I will be on the road next week taking #2 to visit colleges and will have limited posting opportunities.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 82):

Ahhhh, so!

Yes, that is totally on me then!

Chalk it up to the "Phone Game" effect!

Sorry all, rl got a bit in the way. My FL son was home this weekend and we all got together with the 'newly discovered' family for the Easter weekend and I just didn't get to posting.

Happy Easter, spring etc.. to you!

<Like>

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 83):

Meant to say this earlier . . . thanks for the heads-up. I hope the visits are going well.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 87):

I have returned.  The Big Ten showed very well.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 88):

You mean the Big Can't Count? Which in particular? I could venture a guess . . .

Gamewise: at the moment, the action is in the hands of the players. At some point, JEB and Cole may even speak to each other.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 89):

So I have multiple versions of Savage Travis.

One does a one-to-one map of skills edges and hindrances
One starts at zero level and "advances" over time.
One focuses on mapping what Travis does best and edits out the lower level skills and edges.

I did Skill mapping two ways.  One based on skill points, one based on skill points plus attribute bonus (as that is not in SW)
I have no idea how many experience points he may have gained. Is Travis seasoned, veteran, heroic, Legendary?

It was a fun exercise.  Some things were easy. Dodge plus Evasion is Improved Dodge. Others had to be evaluated as a whole. For example to emulate a D20 Prestige class I wanted to create a professional Edge with some of the benefits.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 90):

All very interesting. Glad you are experimenting. In general, the Judge is open to any design that is valid and balanced with other PCs.

However, if you look at the "Savaged Goin" sticky forum, in msg # 4 you will see that the Judge already answered the player's question about the experience: Veteran, 10 advances is the guiding rule.
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:30, Fri 13 Apr 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 91):

Yes you did.  Many thanks.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 92):

Please read the rest of the messages in that forum. The Judge will likely add more, especially as questions come in from players.

The Judge is waiting for PM follow-up from JEB.

The Judge has told Art in PM that he may rejoin the group at any time. He has not made a public post about that and hasn't posted in several days. Jake also hasn't posted in several days. The Judge is fine with either of those characters being available. Whoever posts first in response to Cole's game message, I should think, is the natural choice. Of course, ENS or Travis could step up iffin that suits their mood.

The short version here is that this is up to the players, not the Judge.
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:14, Wed 18 Apr 2018.

Hey Art,

Since you (IC) have been away from the group for a bit, I wanted to give you first right of refusal on working with Cole -- your call, I'm fine with it either way. If you aren't so inclined, I'll have Jake step up. :)

I'll probably post for Jake some time this evening if you haven't either posted IC or noted your druthers in the meantime. Thanks, pard.

Edit: Fixed a typo.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:05, Wed 18 Apr 2018.

All players must know by now that a natural 20 or natural 1 on a skill check means nothing. Natural 1 or 20 on an attack roll is significant, but not on a skill check.

The Judge is engaged in PM with PCs and prefers to hold adjudications until follow-ups are completed. Please log in daily.

In Travis's line of work, it pays to be faaast. If the Road Runner ever calls in sick, it occurs to me that  Looney Tunes could do worse. Beep, beep! :)

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 99):

Travis is min/maxxed for initiative. As you suggested...it is nice, as a gunslinger, to have a free action to draw and to generally shoot first.

Waiting approximately another 24 hours before proceeding, for ENS and Art to state a single action as per Ch 19 msg #303.

if the PCs don't state an action by then, the Judge will proceed with another narrative post and the PCs will do nothing during that particular time.

Waiting for Jake and Cole, both of whom logged in since the Judge's narrative post asking for actions, but neither made a game forum post. Waiting another 24 hours.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 102):

And then there was one.

Iffin' you ain't noticed, the Judge and Carson have been trading PMs. Giving Artemus another 24 to post for the CURRENT round.

Waiting another 24 for JEB and Cole.

Waitng another 24 for JEB and ENS.

Waiting another 24 for Jake and Cole.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 107):

and unlike many of the pards here, you will also be waiting another year for a shot at Lord Stanley's Cup.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 108):

VGK 4 Caps 0

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 26):

Going back to earlier threads -- #25-26 were re: Altered Carbon. I checked it out, watching first two episodes, while at the same time-frame watching the first two of Into the Badlands.

The latter won out -- stopped watching AC and continued watching Badlands. Halfway through season 2 now
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:36, Sat 26 May 2018.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 92):

Going back to earlier threads: has anyone other than Travis started looking at SWD rules to transform characters? Everyone expressed interest but have received feedback only from Mr. Sunday.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 111):

I have purchased the rule-book, but have not started studying it. I am unfamiliar with SW, and as of yet have not felt motivated to invest the amount of time it would take to design a character.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 111):

I was thinking about that the other day... still need to get the book, but I plan to soon.

Waiting only on Travis -- who logged in since the last game summary narrative but hasn't posted actions. Waiting another 24, then Travis will just stand there for the round, waiting for Edgar to speak again.

Waiting another 24 . . . for almost everyone (Artemus excepted).

Most players logged in since the Judge's last narrative, but Art is the only one to post actions for the current round.

Waiting another 24 for ENS.

Savaged West:
Assuming any of the other players move forward with recreating their PC using Savage Worlds rules, to do a "alternate reality" adventue, the Judge would like to have a conversation about weapon reload time. To the Judge, this is a particular weakness of SW ruleset -- it isn't explicit about how long it takes to reload most weapons, relying on a general rule, which isn't clearly stated.

However, official PEG sites indicate that for most weapons suitable for a western game, that one shot could be reloaded per round, as a free action. In Deadlands, you can reload the entire weapon in a round, but it counts as an action.

I would like to discuss the reload rules if it ever comes to matter (meaning, we actually move forward with an SW adventure). The rules would work the same for PCs and NPCs, so I am willing to discuss and determine a reload rule that works for everyone.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 117):

Just to be clear, should we get the "Savage Worlds Deluxe Core Rules" book? I want to pick it up this week if I can.

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 118):

Correct. There are different versions of it, but if it is SWD then you are good. There are pdf and printed versions.

FYI, now that all 6 heroes have posted some continuing actions, the Judge will post a narrative summary for each of the two groups of heroes, up to the point where they must post subsequent actions. I plan to do that this evening, but it might be a while later.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 108):

Congrats to the Caps, they earned it.

For the record, the Lightning won Lord Stanley's Cup in 2004. The franchise began in 1992 and won its first cup 12 seasons later. It took the Caps 43 seasons to win it.

EDIT: fix typo
This message was last edited by the GM at 20:01, Fri 08 June 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 121):

Hater got to hate.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 122):

What hate? Stating facts. And I congratulated the Caps on EARNING the victory.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 123):

Poll:

The Judge was throwing shade

The Judge was not throwing shade

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 124):

Option C. No one cares.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 125):

I'm kinda thinking that whoever doesn't vote picks Option C by default.

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 126):

Wait, when is the Stanley Cup?

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 127):

Next year.

The Judge is waiting for Travis, ENS and Artemus to converse . . . if the Judge has misunderstood the PC posts and you are all waiting for me, please confirm that and the Judge will post narrative.

The Judge will be posting shortly for Cole and Jake.

Re: Carson's post #439 in game forum . . .

Nothing wrong with Carson's post -- in character for a person who joined the action in media res and doesn't have the backstory. I'm discussing here in the interest of keeping the play moving.

In the Judge's view, there is no need for other PCs to explain things to Art with actual IC speech. Especially when the Judge suspects that the other players have forgotten some of the story that lead up to this.

That said, the Judge doesn't object to RPing a conversation here, but we I think we could move on with narrative that says "Travis and ENS fill in the gaps for Artemus. Travis and Artemus fill in the gaps for ENS, about what occurred with the lookouts near the Albion." The latter is easily known from recent posted narrative, ENS can read that (and probably already has) so that's not a concern. The PCs should move on from there. Meanwhile, the Judge is willing to provide a synopsis of the things experienced by the PCs (over two years of gaming) that would answer most of Carson's questions (and probably dispel some of his notions formulated without knowing the backstory), in the interest of speeding up play.

So I will do that if I don't see PC interaction continue in the next 24 hours. Or if I see PCs themselves posting the general "fill in gaps" narrative in the next 24 hours.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:26, Tue 19 June 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 130):

That would great. In fact when this started I thought it might be grist for few short stories for his Worship.

Looking back to see "when this started" it looks like chapters 1 & 2 are AWOL. Any insight on this?

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 131):

My insight is that there is a page 2 on the main game menu which shows the previous chapters.

But you need only go back as far as Chapter 17 to get the full story that would fill in the gaps for Carson in regard to this adventure. Back further would be necessary to fill in Carson about all of his pards goings-on since he last saw them (including how ENS and Jake got involved with the group), but the important facts relevant to Art's IC questions are found in 17 and 18 (Art joined during Chapter 18).

As noted, I won't do that until either the other PCs consent, or fail to log in and post within roughly 24 hours of the Judges msg # 130 above.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 132):

I did find the link. 27 July, 2008 was the first line of actual in-game commenting. Comin' up on a decade. Good job Judge!

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 133):

And there was much rejoicing.

So you may have noticed that the Judge has been posting Savaged West game notes in a sticky forum titled "Savaged Goin'".

Been doing that for 3 months now.

So far, only one player has contacted the Judge with a character design or thoughts, questions about rules, etc. A few of you have expressed interest/intent to get/read the rules, but that's as far as it has gone, it seems.

Travis and the Judge have been testing a brief combat sequence in PM, using his preliminary design. I would like to do more testing with other PCs, whenever people are ready.

And assuming players are still amenable to continue the game in an alternate system and setting, and assuming people procure the rule books and design a SW character.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 135):

So thinking about your musings about the card draw for initiative in SW. I did a "manual" roll in the die roller:

11:17, Today: E.N.S. Ringgenberg rolled 19 using 1d53.  die roller test.

...where 1-52 are the regular deck in higher card order and 53 is the joker. I guess more test rolls are needed to see if it actually uses the range.

We're a small group so the same rolls are unlikely, but we could just say if two players get the same number, the later rolling player has -1 applied to their roll.

For NPCs, the judge could just wait until all players are done then roll for each NPC, rerolling if a double comes up.

What do ya think?

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 136):

First, thanks for the reply.

It's not so much the dice roller mechanics that I'm concerned about (I think RPoL has functionality for a deck draw, but I need to verify that). Typically, the GM deals cards to all parties as necessary -- you wouldn't choose your own card. Then the actions would begin, high card to low card.

It's the "your turn to act" problem that I'm most concerned with; here's a small example -- Travis draws a 'Queen' and if ENS draws a '10' and Jake draws a '3'. And a group of NPC Extras draws a '9'. The SW design is that each of you acts in order, adjudicating combat results for that specific action, then moving to the next character's action.

Let's assume Travis is on the ball; he logs in soon after the Judge posts the initiative order and states his actions. Travis and the Judge make all rolls and adjudicate fully. Now it's ENS' turn.

But ENS, the player, hasn't even logged in since the Judge posted the initiative order. He doesn't even know it's his turn. A day passes. Two ... three ... ENS hasn't logged in and therefore hasn't taken his action.

(I'm not picking on ENS, pretty much everyone has skipped multiple days between login/posts. Just for example).

Finally, ENS logs in and posts and the Judge is on the ball. All is adjudicated. The Judge acts for the NPCs on the '9' card. Now it's Jake's turn.

Jake hasn't logged in for two days. He hasn't seen ENS and Judge posts. He doesn't know it's his turn . . . .

Now, all of this could have happened in the d20 initiative system, if we were playing character acts on his/her turn. That's why I adapted. However, the problem is magnified with SW, I think, because the Initiative is drawn every round. If we kept the deck dealing initiative -- and act in order -- that is part of the fast and furious design -- I suspect that it would drag on and become even "slower and frustrating". We could scrap the SW initiative design and adapt something else for RPoL, or we could set rules (as I did not that long ago), where someone else must act for another hero within 'X' amount of time, or the person moves to the end of the inititative order after 'Y' amount of time, etc. But we would still lose the fast and furious feel that the designers intended.

So, again, I'm not concerned so much with the mechanic as with how to keep the "fast and furious" concept intact for an SW RPoL game.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:43, Wed 20 June 2018.

A stupid question, and perhaps rhetorical, but I'm asking it anyway:

If most of the players haven't taken any material steps -- over three full months -- to obtain an SW rule book, learn about character creation and begin to design an alternative version of their characters . . . should the Judge have any expectations that players will take these steps during the next three months?

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 138):

I struck through Travis' post because Travis, to the best of my knowledge is unaware of the boat, but if he knew he'd like to go that way.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 139):

Travis, like everyone who made base at the Albion, knew about Mr. Xu's longboat. Whether he knows exactly where they are supposed to meet the longboat after the chaos of the battle ... debatable. But both the fact that Mr. Xu has a longboat and that they are heading to the "north beach" were certainly public knowledge (that information was posted in public forum, recently, where all text is public knowledge, eventually). The Judge just re-summarized all of that in the game forum. If Travis wants to accelerate his pace towards the longboat, he may do so. He is already headed towards it, because that's where JEB is leading the column.

In the Judge's view, there is no reason for Sunday NOT to make the connection between the north beach (where he himself visited with JEB and just past that northern rocky point were the gunslinger told the sheriff he looked ridiculous while carrying a longarm in each hand) and meeting Mr. Xu, based on the in-game text since the women were rescued and Mr. Lu scribbled instructions on a page ripped out of the professor's notebook.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 140):

Sorry it's been over 6 months of real time since the battle in the cave ended.  Travis has been following an I lost the info.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 141):

Of course, the RL time it takes to play this out is a factor. I wouldn't expect anyone to remember all the details.

That's why I offered the summary, which came just before your strikethrough post.

For the record, the Judge is waiting for Cole and Jake to indicate where they are going and at what speed.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 138):

On the Savage Worlds item... I'm ready to pull the trigger on ordering the book/PDF.

I was trying to figure out if I could get a copy of the PDF if I bought the book from a brick and mortar shop (as far as I can tell, no).

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 144):

The pdf is only $10.

I believe if you just buy the $10 pdf (or printed book if you find it that cheap), you will enjoy it enough to justify the expense, even if you never play any game with it. It is an interesting rule system that lends itself to various genres.

The general response to my recent questions has been underwhelming, but thanks to those of you who have followed up (here or in PM). I state this only because I can't guarantee there will be enough players ready to continue with an SW game. I got a few "I'm in" comments when I originally suggested it, but lately, I sense a lack of enthusiasm. At least, lack of action. You should buy SWD if you are interested, regardless of whether we get to play.

----------------------------------

For the record, I expect for the current adventure to be concluded soon, unless the players want to go deeper into the epilogue (what to do with the dead bodies, whether to lay low, get out of town, etc.), as opposed to the fade-to-black and Judge narrative ending. Their actions since leaving the cave had put them on the edge between success and trouble, but as of the departure of the Albion, the final obstacles to delivering the women to Mr. Xu is near an end.

Of course, that is assuming the men continue to the completion of that decision. At the cave, there was discussion about what to do and the decision was to go to Xu's beach. The Judge said he didn't want to fade-to-black (ftb) at that time because getting the women to safety still seemed like a real challenge for roleplay and perhaps yet further combat -- in general, the aftermath of such an adventure so close to a city civilization still seems like a challenge, as noted in the "lay low" and other comments above.

At this time, the Judge is willing to do the ftb, or willing to play out any subtleties in the ending -- or changes. For example, if Art's questioning has the other men wanting a final word with Mr. Xu before delivering the women, and you (plural) want to play that out wherever it goes, the Judge is certainly willing to do so. Or if you want to wrap up loose ends like the death of Barnes and his ranch hands, we could that. Or, you (plural) could just give the Judge license to narrate the resolution of those loose ends.

To summarize, this adventure is over but for the epilogue -- and we can ftb soon or continue play as per the PC preferences. That's part of the reason, I've been asking about SW. Chapter 19 is near a close.
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:14, Tue 26 June 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 145):

Well, Lyman and Fritz have been left behind... should we clean that up?

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 146):

True -- that's another loose end that COULD be played out. The Judge is essentially asking the players whether you WANT to play out such elements.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:56, Thu 28 June 2018.

People are logging in but not posting. To be clear, the path is now in the hands of the players, unless the consensus is to fade-to-black.

You're welcome. I had to search for it in the threads. I knew it had happened but not where it was in the chapter/message flow. I haven't been a player in an RPoL game since Travis' Shadowrun game ended. Can you, as the players, view "all" messages in a chapter thread? If so, it becomes easy to search on a keyword, in this case I used "longboat" and it didn't take long to find the scene for which i searched.

As a player, I found it useful to put notes in the ScratchPad so I could go back and re-read messages from earlier in the game.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 149):

I cannot find any options like that... how do you get to it? A "Go to Msg" option would be nice too!

...yeah, I need to be better with the scratchpad!

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 150):

It's at the very top of the page when viewing messages in any forum. There are links to any given page, as well as a link for "all" and a link for "bottom." While normally you see only one page worth of messages at a time, the "all" link displays all of the messages in the chapter on one page, making your browser search functionality helpful in locating keywords (including a msg # string, e.g., if you opened Ch18, clicked "all" and then did a "find" in your browser for 'msg # 252', you could go straight to that message).

Again, I'm not sure whether that "all" link is a GM-only function, or if all players can also display "all" messages in a chapter.
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:33, Mon 09 July 2018.

FYI, the Judge is traveling on business this week but will still be logging in to RPOL daily.

Seeing as Cole and ENS have engaged in conversation with possible action before the column reaches the beach with the longboat, the Judge is holding the next narrative until the players have a chance to complete their activities -- assuming it happens in a timely fashion.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 151):

The "All" link is the for regular players. I've used it occasionally.

In reply to Cole Trayne (msg # 153):

Yeah, I don't see any of those links on my views...

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 154):

If I can see it and Cole can see it . . . there's no reason you shouldn't be able to see it.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 155):

Okay, reread your post and looked in the right place now!

Re: the Judge's OOC comment in Msg #525 of the IC thread.

My vote is to avail ourselves of the FTB option.

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 157):

Anyone else?

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 158):

As long as the FTB ties up the loose ends, sure.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 158):

End the adventure. Please.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 160):

The Judge recommended that a month ago, but there were players that still wanted to continue.

I now count 3 of 6 players voicing support for FTB. One more will do.

FWIW, I suspect that ending the adventure will also end the game. From the judge's perspective, there is no more than 20% interest in continuing with a Savaged adventure -- at least based on any evidentiary action.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 161):

I suppose if you're ready to conclude I'm willing. It was my intention to work on making the switch and I'm sorry to be slow on the uptake with that. This weekend I'd try to start.

I do feel like there is inertia to maintain and suggest that sustaining that be considered, even if it's whoring in town somewhere.

Hopefully your Worship will post an epilogue...  ;-)

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 162):

Artemus, you are not alone in regard to being "slow on making the switch."

Although all of the players had expressed some level of interest -- and some have obtained SW rules -- only one player has informed the Judge of any character design in progress over the course of the 4 months since the Judge proposed an alternate reality Savage Worlds adventure at the conclusion of this one. And no change in that status in the month since I noted it had been 3 months.

------------------------

You may or may not be aware of this, but the Judge composes all of his messages contemporaneously (when posting as the Judge or an NPC). None are pre-written or even pre-determined, although I think about the game a lot and I also re-read my own and player posts regularly, which helps me to run the game in that fashion. Occasionally, as you have seen, I edit the post at some point later to fix a problematic typo, factual error or just plain old mistake by yours truly.

I mention the above because I don't have a particular FTB in mind -- I just see possibilities to perform an FTB whenever we are ready. I could take it in various directions (miserable, middling, or favorable).

So I'm going to wait until all 6 PCs have weighed in on the FTB. There have been IC posts since Jake's prompt in msg #157, which leads me to believe that perhaps a few would still like to RP rather than have a Judge FTB.

Whenever all players have voiced their thoughts (2 remaining) and assuming no one makes a strong case for doing otherwise, the Judge will post a contemporaneous fade-to-black (miserable, middling, or favorable based on the Judge's whim).

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 161):

I propose reassessing follow-on game options once more after the FTB. Folks ought to be better focused then!

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 164):

Of course, ENS, the Judge is happy to converse about next adventure. That conversation could begin any time, if you ask me. The fact that it hasn't over 4 months -- unless the Judge has prompted it -- makes me dubious.

The Judge notes that Cole continues to RP . . . and hasn't commented on the FTB. As per #163, the Judge is inclined to pause on the FTB until Cole and JEB have weighed in.
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:54, Fri 27 July 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 165):

FTB

In reply to James E. Beauregard (msg # 166):

Although I am willing to continue, I will vote for FTB.

In reply to Cole Trayne (msg # 167):

Everyone has commented -- the Judge will post an FTB this week, allowing for anyone who wants to do a little more RP to complete that -- mostly, this involves Cole and ENS who have been engaged in the RP with Conway (possibly Jake, as well, but his inclination to end with FTB at this time seems clear).

Cole and the Judge have exchanged some PMs ... the result may be that the Judge simply incorporates points from that conversation into the FTB, but the Judge is okay with more Ch19 RP as desired, leading up to the FTB later this week-ish.

-----------------------------------

Meanwhile to Ringgenberg's earlier thought: does anyone have thoughts to share about whether to continue this RPOL game? And how to continue? Especially in regard to the alternate reality adventure using Savage Worlds.

Please be honest. And feel free to push back on any of my thoughts, below, if you think the Judge's view is inaccurate.

The Judge will begin.

I enjoy running this game a lot, even though it is slow-moving. In the Judge's mind, it is slow-moving for a couple of reasons, starting with the nature of RPOL itself and ending with what the Judge perceives as sporadic participation and effort from the players. In the middle are factors such as differences in player/Judge perspectives about RP vs. Combat. The Judge attempted to strike a better balance in that regard, giving opportunities during the "legwork" part of the adventure for combat (the fight in Chinatown for Jake/ENS/JEB and the "stakeout/gunfight" on the Barbary Coast for Travis as part of his deal with the fat man). And then a boat load of fighting at the rocky point and Tong Cave. Throughout, both in combat and RP, most players were sporadic in posting and keeping things moving  -- at least in the Judge's view. There were a number of times during combat where PCs had to act for other PCs, or PCs ended up doing nothing, because of a player(s) absence in log in / posting spanning more than 3-4 days.

I would like to continue playing, but I don't want to do another d20/OGL scenario at this time. That is part of the reason I suggested the SW reboot. I thought perhaps a reboot to a new system would be something new to regenerate interest -- redesigning characters and trying something different. Additionally, the SW system is more about "fast, fun, furious" and the Judge was thinking that adopting that mindset might keep people more involved more regularly.

However, if players aren't enthusiastic about the SW reboot, then the game is, at best, going on hiatus and, at worst, done. It's been a good run; I myself have enjoyed it most of the time over ten years (with some players coming and going over that time), but I have no desire to push for more play -- with either the existing system/characters or with new system/characters -- if in fact the status quo for participation and effort remains the same. My view at present is that the suggestion to shift to SW has generated a lukewarm reaction, in theory, and a cold reaction, in practice. Therefore, my expectations for continuing are low, as per earlier my comment that the FTB will become the close of the game as a whole. For the record, no hard feelings here if we don't continue. Just sharing my thoughts.
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:45, Mon 30 July 2018.

Two days later, the Judge continues his monologue.

I plan to roll for the fade-to-black outcome (haven't rolled yet, I will do it publicly). Then I will write the FTB.

1 - miserable
2 - disappointing
3 - mediocre
4 - passable
5 - favorable
6 - celebratory

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 169):

06:40, Today: Judge Messalen rolled 4 using 1d6 with rolls of 4.  Ch19 FTB 1-6 as per OOC5 #169.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 170):

The fade message has been posted in Ch19 and that game forum is now closed.

Feel free to discuss that fade here if desired.

If anyone cares to continue playing in this RPOL western game -- in whatever form it may take -- please share your ideas. In particular, the Judge would like to know what the CURRENT level of interest is for re-designing the current characters to play in a Savaged West adventure.

Additionally, if anyone is ready to drop out regardless of any discussion about possible future gaming, please let us all know, so we can say our "farewell, pards."

Thanks to everyone for participating up to this point.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 171):

Nice epilogue. I am interested in keeping that (a?) game going. I feel like I enjoy the fluff more than the crunch. Not that I dislike it, it's just that it's the part that's an impediment to a quick spin up.

As mentioned I am willing to aquatint myself with SW and transmogrifying Art into that world.

I suggest that we continue to play the existing game, perhaps in pieces and fragments - a series of vignettes not connected in location or time. Just something to keep the motor idling.

I do appreciate the skill that several have demonstrated where by an accent is written out. I don't seem to be very good at it, but the Judge especially has excelled.

I did enjoy writing several "vignette" style shorts to fill in Art's backstory and to give reason for certain actions taken.

Anyone else have any thoughts.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 171):

I am interested in continuing in whatever form the game resumes. I have always enjoyed playing and greatly appreciate the Judge’s effort in administering the game.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 171):

A nice, concise ending! Thank you Judge and everyone else!

I would like to continue the game as well; I would prefer the current system (since I have never played SW), but I'll bow to the will of the group.

Just to clarify, by "alternate-reality" is the Judge just referring to the fact that we won't be able to create the exact same characters in the SW system?

Thanks to those of you have posted thoughts about continuing the game. It is has been six days since the Judge posted the epilogue and the invitation to discuss things here -- and three of six players have posted something. One player hasn't logged in since the Judge's posts. The remaining two simply haven't posted any public thoughts.

I refrained from posting for a few days to give players a chance before I followed up to any particular posts. Now, I'll answer the professor's question and share more of my thoughts.

-------------------------


Yes, but not the only reference. SW is a different system than d20/OGL, so you won't be able to duplicate stats. You could build a similar character, mechanically, but there would be differences in application during game play. That's about the mechanics.

But when I use the term "alternate-reality" I am also thinking that the SW version of would be a different place -- another universe in the multiverse. (Those of you who know me from back-in-the-day early-1980s gaming may recall that the multiverse has been a theme in my games for a long time). So I'm suggesting that these are essentially the same characters, but in a different, parallel universe. To use ENS as an example:

E.N.S. Ringgenberg is still a professor from back east, once a greenhorn but now a veteran adventure after some time on the frontier. But his exact skill set, and his path westward, may have deviations from the professor we know and love in "Goin' Through the Mill." In the "Savaged Goin'" universe, maybe he developed a penchant for laudanum, or he was a prize-winning author of a paper on the multi-verse (largely derivative of Isaac Newton and Fritz Leiber, but still an international sensation), or he has a mean streak in him -- or some edginess -- the makes him a dangerous man, or he had learned of some arcane family secret, or he left wife and kids back east, or . . . . well, you get the idea.

or, E.N.S. Ringgenberg is still a professor from back east, but in the "Savaged Goin'" universe he has only recently went west. He met the other characters in San Francisco, where Xu Xie Jing -- a Chinese businessman and fellow scholar, had recruited him to teach English to Chinese children and he ended up participating in a rescue mission with a group of veteran gunmen. Or, ENS had to leave his home, even though he had enjoyed his posh lifestyle at the university, because he had slept with the wife of the dean ... he took exile rather than face other potential difficulties.

or . . . doesn't really matter to the Judge, but the point is that since the characters CAN'T be the same because the systems are different, the Judge is encouraging players to "re-create" the characters in a Savage Worlds version of "Goin' Through the Mill," taking tangents or making small tweaks in the character's backstory, playing the character a little differently.

Ringgenberg exists. He knows the other PCs. Any other player that wants to play would know ENS. If one or more of the players drop out, it could be that they never existed, or their path had deviated at some point and not now part of the group in this universe. Other characters could return, if the players desire it. (Meriwether logs in occasionally; the Judge sent him a PM about a month ago inviting him to rejoin if we go alternate-reality SW game). If someone really wanted to try a whole new character, I would be fine with that, too (although in the past, most people weren't keen on that idea). The group could spend some RP time in posting backstory or just doing "yes, and" improv IC in the game forum ("remember when we fought those Comanche?" and "couldn't forget, pard, although I always regret that we didn't track down the bugler."). Ideally, the players would come to some kind of agreement about the "slant" of the game -- are we going a little darker, a little lighter, a little weirder (incorporating some of the SW supernatural or weird science elements, on the fringe as the Judge already suggested in the "Savaged Goin'" sticky forum)? It would already be deadlier, based on SW rules and the settings rules the Judge is proposing.

----------------------

So, some of that speaks the Judge's desires. To continue running this game, I want to switch to SW and run an alternate universe adventure. The more I think about it, the more I think the game needs a change -- and this change is particularly appealing to the Judge. I don't have much enthusiasm for the status quo. It seems like "just another adventure" in a game that sometimes drags on because of sporadic player participation. A Savaged game wouldn't fix the latter, but it would be something different, in a system that DHR is now publishing more products so it has added value to me beyond this RPOL game itself.

So, at this point, the Judge is waiting for player action. I have heard intent to design SW character, but seen action from only one player. We could start even before the mechanics are all done -- such as Art's is suggesting -- but it would be totally incumbent on the players to make that happen. The Judge is  happy to create Chapter 20 for use similar to what we did in Chapter 8. But until players have designed characters in SW, it would be RP "fluff" only -- the Judge isn't starting an adventure without all PCs ready for play -- and players would lead the posting, as it was in Chapter 8.

If more than one player explicitly says "yes, please create Chapter 20," the Judge will do it. And then I will read your posts and await your character design, or your questions about design. The Judge is available for help in the design, as requested. Please re-read the Savaged Goin' sticky forum whenever you get started on your SW design. We'll see how many people participate and take it from there.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 175):

Yes, please create Chapter 20.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 175):

Very well... I will order the rule book tonight.

As a suggestion, instead of "Chapter 20", maybe use "Chapter 1-A" or some such to differentiate the alternate universe?

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 177):

My thought was that Chapter 20 was way to keep the motor running while the "Pan-Dimensional Multiverse" spins up. And that there will be another chapter for that... Judge?

Chapter 20, which is what I would prefer to label it, can be whatever the players want it to be. But in the Judge's mind, Ch20 should be a forum that facilitates a transition from where we were at the end of Ch19, to the chapter where we would begin a a new AR SW adventure in Chapter 21. (There is a logistical problem 1-A, in that we already did 1B and 1C early in this game. That problem was caused by the Judge. At this time, it makes more sense to continue in numerical order.)

And just in case it wasn't clear, that forum would be populated by player posts, not by Judge posts. Please don't expect the Judge to post narratives, or post on behalf of an NPC, or whatever. Ch20 would be for players to do RP with each other, post backstory narrative, etc. Again, similar to chapter 8.

And so far, I see only one explicit request to create chapter 20 for that purpose.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:05, Wed 08 Aug 2018.

Here's a possibility for the Judge's "alternate universe"/Chapter 20 that I, for one, would consider interesting.

What if the South had won its independence during the Late Unpleasantness? If a few things had transpired differently, it could easily have happened. That sort of a scenario might lead to some interesting changes in the campaign setting (and the various characters' backgrounds). :)
This message was last edited by the player at 16:07, Thu 09 Aug 2018.

I believe that I have mentioned a novel I read called "Guns of the South" that had that premise. The Judge is open to any such ideas.

If there is a chapter 20 -- and the Judge reiterates that so far there has only been one explicit, "yes please create chapter 20" which is why it doesn't exist yet -- the players are free to narrate their own stories (similar to what was done in chapter 8, and yes I know I'm repeating myself). The Judge also suggested the players adopt the improv tenet "yes, and" as a means to roleplay, IC, and  establish the backstory. The Judge remains open to the players defining the parameters of alternate reality. If Jake, the player, were to narrate something in chapter 20 about the Confederacy's victory, and other players chimed in with their "yes, ands" you could easily establish some (or a lot) of the setting and then the Judge could run with it.

And other PCs could introduce their ideas.

I have often thought about how changes in that pivotal event could be treated in storytelling. One alternate treatment that I haven't seen (but may exist) is that neither side won the War Between the States. Rather, it ended with a whimper.

"After almost five years of war, and the death of nearly one million soldiers,* not to mention scorched earth on both sides of the Mason-Dixon line, the generals met at Appomattox and reach an accord. A truce and then a compromise . . . "

*Yes, I know that 620,000 died in our universe's Civil War. But in this notion of the AR, it had reached, nearly, the ghastly seven-digits. And there was no end in sight.

EDIT: fixed typo
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:49, Thu 09 Aug 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 181):

I feel sort of meh about alternate civil war outcomes, but any port in a storm.

I also would like to remind Dr. Bombbay that you should Never, ever cut a deal with a Dragon...

Additional: Can we please get a second on a chapter 20?
This message was last edited by the player at 22:20, Thu 09 Aug 2018.

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 182):

Frankly, I find the alternate Civil War ideas interesting, but I tend towards indifference myself in terms of playing an RPG with that as the premise. However, it doesn't have to be a driving factor -- and it doesn't necessarily mean that things turn out COMPLETELY different.

The AR environment the players envision could fall anywhere in the spectrum of "almost exactly the same" to "completely different". It could be one slight shift away from either end of the spectrum. The Judge has laid some groundwork in regard to any shift in the "supernatural" but he could be convinced to change that if the PCs "yes, and" RP winds along that path.

To continue with example of the Civil War alternate ideas -- in the novel I mentioned resulted in the end of slavery, even though the Confederacy emerged as the victors.

So again, the Judge isn't pushing for any given thing. The alternate Civil War is an example.

I don't want to speak for Jake, but I'm not sure he was actually suggesting that course beyond it being a possibilit -- just putting forth ideas of interest to him. And the Judge's intention was to say "yes, and" ...
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:39, Fri 10 Aug 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 183):



The Judge is correct (other than his spelling of "possibility"). :)

There are lots of other possibilities; this was one that, to my way of thinking, was easily justifiable, historically (off the top of my head, I can think of four or five historical events, that, if they had turned out differently, might well have changed the course of the war), and might interest both the Judge (from a point of view of figuring out what would be different about the campaign setting) and the players (from the point of view of it being a viable starting point for a different version of their PC -- and giving the players an opportunity to figure out how such a state of facts would have changed their character).

But, again, there are lots of other possibilities for a revised campaign setting, some of which may appeal more to other players than this one.


Edit: Added a couple of missing words (non-substantive).
This message was last edited by the player at 19:10, Fri 10 Aug 2018.

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 184):

It could lead to some interesting intrigue in our western setting, considering that, at his point in time, there are still territories yet to become states, how would 2 nations work to acquire such territories?

Also, had the Confederacy established their own Constitution? If so, how was it different from the Union's?

It also stands to reason that the 13th to 15th amendments may be very different (i.e., stronger without southern influence) in such a world.

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 185):

I am writing from memory, but I am almost certain that the Confederacy did have a Constitution (or some manner of central governance document), modeled in general after the U. S. Constitution (but with certain obvious differences, as you might well imagine). I don't recall the specifics, however.

And yes, things would almost certainly have been different in the Northern states after the war, with the South not sitting on the other end of the national see-saw, acting as a counterweight.

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 186):

Yes, the Confederate States of America did have a constitution, as well as a congress and executive branch.

Just to be clear: in the Judge's mind such a "change" in outcome of the war, if that were to be woven into the backstory for an SW adventure, would be part of the background, not a driving force. As Jake noted, you could point to several "pivotal points" in history that would make things different -- but the magnitude of difference would be debatable. On the other hand, perhaps a much smaller altered event could have a dramatic change in things.

It's an interesting conversation; this is just reminder that this is all speculation until the players do the RP / narrative as suggested.

(And the Judge has still not seen an explicit second of the "yes, please create ch20," despite Art's plea.)

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 182):

If Doctor Bombay were to log in to this game, he might see that note.

Another reminder: the Judge has said that he would be interested in doing some play-testing with your designs before starting the adventure. That would give you a chance to revise the design if the tests expose issues or just give you a better idea of what to focus on in design.

Of course, you would need a character design to get started . . . and the play-testing can be one at a time as players work on designs. Travis has already done a play-test in PM -- the Judge thinks it's fair to say that it was useful for both of us, and for the player, it did in fact provide strong insight into some changes in design that would better serve the execution of the design intent.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 187):

I was just curious about the constitution stuff... I didn't think it would be a big driver, just speculating.

To make it official: I second the creation of Chapter 20!

Oh, and my rulebook is in the mail!

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 190):

So the Judge has heard a second. Any debate . . . just joking.

I will create Ch20.

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 190):

I wasn't talking about the constitution being a big driver; I was talking more generally about the outcome of the civil war -- background, not a driver in the plot, unless the players choose to make it so.

The Judge knows of 3 players that have procured the rule book. Still just one that has attempted a character design.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 192):

So . . . should the players simply choose a set of circumstances for Chapter 20 background and write for their character based upon that assumption? Or are we going to agree ahead of time on what the altered background circumstances will be, and write based upon that set of circumstances?


Also, what year should we assume for our new setting?


Thanks.

PS. Finally, where are we (the PCS), given that we aren't in Kansas? For example, it would make a big difference if the game begins in San Francisco, as opposed to, say, Tombstone, Arizona. :)
This message was last edited by the player at 21:58, Tue 14 Aug 2018.

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 193):

These are all great questions, Jake.

I was tempted to set a particular stage to give you a starting point. Such as: the heroes find themselves at a saloon (the Judge has one in mind) in the town of (the Judge has one in mind), reminiscing about day past before they convened at this hole-in-the-wall in the year (the Judge has one in mind).

That could have given you the kinds of answers you seek. But, as the Judge has noted -- it is really up to the PCs to drive the story at this time, so I didn't want to poison the water hole with my inclinations. If I had written, it's 1877 in Carson City, Nevada, that would have established some background immediately (that town exists, Nevada exists, etc.). Since I would prefer to have the PCs participate in backstory, I didn't want to start that way.

I had to type some kind of post in order to create the chapter. In the end, I decided to avoid leading the PCs in any particular direction and just to make the forum available.

The time, place, circumstances are totally open. The Judge thinks its fair for people to approach this however they want. You could discuss this very topic in Ch20 (using "OOC" to preface player discussion and differentiate from character narrative/speech) or you could continue to toss around ideas here. Here are a couple of possible starting points:

Chapter 20 ...
Starts where 19 ended, with the PCs narrating what they do next (in that universe or the new one) with a morph to the alternate universe playing out in the PC posts. Heroes could agree to narrate a period of time (like we did in Ch8) with an end result to meet somewhere/somewhen to begin direct interaction.  That would likely assume the timing is sometime after April 1877 (and that the PCs have been through similar things in this world that we have played up until now) with the improv "yes, and" to fill in details on the go for the shifting of reality.

Starts in a particular place and time unrelated to what we have done up until now, because it's a different world with a different history, with characters reminiscing about travels before they gathered somewhere/somewhen. How they got here is revealed in character posts, but the players would come to some basic agreement about the where and when.

Starts entirely with OOC with characters proposing ideas about the alternate reality and when some common ground arises, shift into RP establishing each characters path to the agreed-upon point.

I'm glad you asked -- and for the record, I am responding but I didn't view the question to be directed at the Judge specifically. I read it as an open-ended discussion point -- with my response to clarify why I didn't pick a specific starting point. If a consensus arose from the players for the Judge to provide a starting frame of reference that you could then run with (as per notes above), I am willing. But I didn't want to start it that way. I was hoping for player to have the kind of conversation that Jake's post has prompted.

This message was deleted by the player at 22:54, Tue 14 Aug 2018.

Poor Jake Richardson, stranded on the island by himself. Artemus Carson, meanwhile, now stranded on his own island despite sending up signal flares for days. Neither could hear each other. Both heard the voice of ENS Ringgenberg, from his rowboat on the water, the current carrying him to and fro and keeping him from any safe port.

Cole Trayne, James Beauregard and Travis Sunday . . . well, no one had seen them for a week or more.

Clearly, they should never have touched that orb. Brisco County, Jr. had been right about that.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 196):

Ha! Well-played, Judge. :)

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 197):

Thanks, Jake. BTW, I like the ideas you have engendered while biding your time on the island. The Judge is waiting (patiently or impatiently depending on your perspective) for other players to join the conversation.

Glad to hear that my alternative history alternatives appeal to you, Judge. I will add that even though I mentioned the "Havana Gambit" first, I really have no preferences between it and the "Santé Fe Gambit" -- the idea of an alternative setting in Cuba just popped into my head first.


Perhaps it is a function of growing up in Florida, and hearing of many generations of adventurers, sportsmen, gamblers, ne'er-do-wells, expatriates, writers and high-rollers who have traveled the short distance to Havana in search of whatever it is that they hope to find there.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:26, Fri 17 Aug 2018.

The rifleman, passing time on the island between hunting and sleeping, would have sworn he heard someone talking to him. A voice, sounding near and then far as he turned his head. He hadn't heard from the professor, or Artemus or anyone in days. How many days was it? He looked to the piece of driftwood he had used to carve notches to measure the days. He saw several notches.

Maybe, he thought with irony, it was a voice in his head. A voice that said, "looks like just you and me, Jake." But it was hard to judge.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 200):

Now Jake just needs to find a round leather ball that he can draw a face upon with a piece of charred driftwood.


He will, of course, name the ball "Judge". :)
This message was last edited by the player at 01:56, Mon 20 Aug 2018.

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 201):

Of course.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 200):

Sorry, dropped off for a bit! Not sure I could justify ENS in Cuba without big changes (unless we assume the group has made its way down there for some reason?).

I think the Santa Fe 'gambit' is an easier transition.

Started reading rules, but fair warning, my next two weekend are choke full of RL so I don't think I'll get too far with char work!

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 203):

At least you are posting, pard. You got a number of other players beat on that account.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 204):

Sorry.  I got destroyed by RL.  Things are settled back down now.

In reply to Travis Sunday (msg # 205):

Sorry to hear that RL was a problem, but it happens to most of us at one time or another, and in varying degrees of magnitude. Glad to have you back with us, pard.

I'm sorry to disappoint anyone with my absence of late. I went a few days w/o logging in and then it wasn't on mind.

Judge, especially sorry to get my 2nd and not be there to notice.

Please point me to the d/l for tome I need and I will acquire tonight. I did look around unsuccessfully.

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 207):

Good to hear from you, pard. The book that I ordered is "Savage Worlds Deluxe Explorer's Edition", available from Amazon for $8.99.

The SW folks also publish "Companion" books for specific settings (e.g., sci-fi), but I haven't run across anything based on the SW rules-set that seems to be specific to the American West during our time period (well . . . other than the "Weird West/Deadlands" stuff, I suppose -- which holds no interest for me).

Hope this helps. :)

PS. Here is the website for DriveThru RPG, which is where I look first for pdf downloads:https://www.drivethrurpg.com/. I found the SW rule-book that I mentioned above, but did not see a pdf download for it. My guess is that the book is so cheap, they haven't bothered to come up with a pdf version of it.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:16, Mon 27 Aug 2018.

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 208):

It does. Thanks.

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 209):

BTW, if you picture Savage Worlds as being "GURPS-Lite" (in the sense that the same system can be used for fantasy, sci-fi, World War II, modern, etc.), you won't be too far off the mark.

I found GURPS to be way too anal-retentive for my tastes (when you have to start keeping track of the weight of your cartridges, that's when I start backing away and saying "Ummmm   . . . thanks, but no thanks"). SW is a much lighter, more user-friendly rules-set (at least at first blush -- I'm very much a SW newbie).
This message was last edited by the player at 03:42, Tue 28 Aug 2018.

Savage Worlds Deluxe is available from DriveThruRPG in pdf form. That's how I purchased it a while back. My son bought a pdf copy of it when it was on sale last month. I'm pretty sure I mentioned in this forum, previously, that the rulebook was available in pdf form, including at DriveThruRPG. But maybe I imagined it.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 211):

For the record, the Judge apparently never mentioned a particular vendor in this thread (until this morning), but noted the product name and the fact that it is available in both pdf and printed formats, a couple of times previously.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 212):

I've ordered a hard-copy and may supplement that with a pdf as well.

So I've been following Jake and the Judge's play test... very helpful!

I've managed to read through the relevant parts of the manual and the Judge's "Savaged Goin'" entries and I have a few questions (surprised?):

1) I noticed that some of the Edges have a 'Wild Card' requirement... it that to keep them out of NPCs or am I missing something? Per pg 70, all actual player characters (and some in-game ones) are 'Wild Cards' right?

2) So Bennies are similar to Sidewinder's Action Points, but they don't stick around? Is there any SW transfer of Action Points?

3) So we had some hearing loss during this last round, does that count as a new Hinderance for the characters?

4) In the play test, I see that the Judge is doing all the initiative draws; is that how it will work during the actual game (I'm not complaining, just asking)?

That's it (for now)... I think I'll be able to start on the xfer of ENS during this long weekend, but RL has kept me busy lately (this game break actually came at a really good time for me)!

Cheers!

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 213):

Hard copy arrived today.

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 214):

Glad to hear that Jake's play-testing has been informative for you. It certainly has been a valuable learning experience for me.

I could actually answer some of your questions, but I'll defer to the Judge on this.

When you get around to designing the SW version of ENS, you might want to consider using the Scientist archetype (p. 19) as a starting point, and tweaking it to meet your expectations. In my case I started with the Marksman archetype, and after a few tweaks and a goodly number of Advances, came up with a pretty serviceable version of Jake.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:28, Thu 30 Aug 2018.

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 214):

I am also glad that the play-testing posts are helping. I wasn't sure anyone was actually reading them, aside from Jake and myself. The Texan and the Judge had wondered about that in PM.

Jake, feel free to answer any rules questions . . . if the Judge interprets a rule differently, he would say so.

1. NPCs can be Wild Cards. All PCs are Wild Cards. That's an important fact in SW, in general. Some NPCs are merely Extras. The Edges you note that require being a Wild Card can't be taken by an Extra, but they can be taken by a PC or an NPC Wild Card. The "big bad" would certainly be a Wild Card, not to mention some lieutenants . . .

2. First question: Yes . . . but bennies are much more potent than AP. Bennies can get you out of a jam or turn things in your favor. Second question: No. I thought Jake and the Judge had discussed that in Ch20 . . . but maybe it was in PM. Bennies are awarded "per session" so we will have to adapt that to RPOL. They reset for each gaming session. So no transfer of AP. You will get your allotment of bennies (base = 3) for each "session." The number of bennies can be modified by Edges and Hindrances. The Judge may award bennies during play for whatever reason he desires.

Reminder: Ch20 wasn't meant to be a solo forum for Jake.

3. It's up to the player as to whether to take the Hindrance. It would be treated as any other Hindrance -- and would give the usual benefits for character creation. Jacob took it. If I recall, Trampus took it, too.

4. As of now, the Judge is doing the draws manually (also discussed in ch20). RPOL has a tool that draws from a card deck, but there is no functionality (that I can find) that allows for tracking the discard pile and continuing to draw from an existing deck until the Joker is dealt. If you have read my sticky forum, you will see that I have noted issues with how to do initiative in this environment. The play-testing is helping, but I haven't come to a viable conclusion. I'm happy to hear thoughts about how to handle it. Nonetheless, using a deck will require me to manage it offline.

On second thought, I suspect that Artemus has read all of the posts in Ch20, seeing as he was a driving force in creating that forum.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 217):

One more quick question:
Is there a SW character sheet template fro RPOL available somewhere? Is there a link?

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 219):

There are lots of SW character sheets available from various game vendors. DHR has a couple we have designed for Wild West SW, but they haven't yet been published. We expect to do that soon (as a free product). I'll see if I can get them to you ahead of time. For me, a character sheet is no big deal, but I know some people like them.

In the meantime, if you have downloaded the free DHR product Savaged Six Guns: The James Young, there are some standard character stat blocks and DHR western character cards that you could use as a basis.

State of the game:

It has been one month since the fade-to-dawn conclusion of chapter 19.

Current status as the Judge knows it is:

• Artemus: procured rulebook
• Cole: hasn't logged in for a full month
• ENS: procured rulebook, asked some questions
• Jake: play-testing a character design
• JEB: procured rulebook, asked some questions
• Travis: completed a PM play-test, logged in only a few times in the last month

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 221):

Friends,

Since I procured the rule book I had bit of real live intrude. Nothing critical but I needed to go help my dad with few things that took the better part of week. And I should have mentioned it here, earlier.

That also kept me from too far with the SW rule book, but I'm keeping at it.

While we're trying spin up our new environment, I feel like it would be helpful, at lest to me, to keep writing something.

I'm going to try to post some back story, or side story to Art. Maybe that will meld into the new character. I don't know but for me anyway it help keep some momentum.

More soon.

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 222):

Good to hear from you, pard. Hope that all is well with your dad.

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 223):

Yes, he's been wanting to and now has sold his house and has to clear out but doesn't yet have a new one.

In reply to Artemus Carson (msg # 222):

Good to see some additional players posting in Ch20. I have also had an RL family-related thing going on. Best wishes to all.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 225):

Hey, I know a number of you are over in the middle East coast... you all prepping for Florence? Stay safe!

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 226):

There are four players that could be impacted by Florence. Only one of them logs in regularly these days. Iffin, the Judge were a betting man, he would wager that none of them see your well-wishes until after Florence has made landfall.

Regardless, as I have various family, friends and colleagues from SC to New England, I also have my eye on that storm, so I echo the professor's thoughts.
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:15, Thu 13 Sept 2018.

Been there, done that -- but not this time.

Stay safe, everyone who might be impacted.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 227):

My dad is right there, but about 10m inland on high enough ground.

Hey Judge, can you post (in the "Savage Goin'" thread?) the original Guts skill text?

My rulebook only has a "Design Notes - Guts" entry stating that they removed it.

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 230):

I will paraphrase it, yes. However, I have been going back on forth on whether to use Guts. I like it and I can think of situations where it would come into play. But I can also make a counter-argument where using "Spirit" as per the updated rules would work just as well.

I will make a full decision on this in the next couple of days.

Since you are considering this issue, my vote would be to use "Spirit", per the updated rules. This would free up some extra skill points that would go into the "Guts" skill, which can then be put to good use to acquire a different skill during the initial character-building process.

PS. As I have previously mentioned to the Judge in private, before I started designing Jake 2.0 (SW Jake), I assumed that with 10 Advances, I would be able to acquire all of the Skills, Edges, and Attributes increases that my little heart desired.

I was soon disabused of this notion once the design process started. There are still lots of shiny things that I would like to acquire for Jake, that have been left on the shelf.

Hence, my desire to make a few additional skill points available.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:01, Sat 29 Sept 2018.

Thanks, Jake. I would like to hear the professor's opinion, as well.

I updated msg #2 in the Savaged Goin' forum, which references this discussion which references the post in msg #2 . . . .

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 232):

I think I'm with Jake on this... Even with 10 advances, I think our characters are somewhat diminished WRT to the Sidewinder versions... that's okay, but a few more skill points would be handy!

In reply to E.N.S. Ringgenberg (msg # 234):

All right. Let's drop the use of Guts -- if you have that in your design you can swap that out in the build for something equivalent (still has to meet requirements at whatever point in the build.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 235):

Jake whoops and runs over to the Skills store to pick up one of  the Shinies that he has been eyeing through the glass window . . .

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 236):

The proprietor of Shiny Things, Inc. rubs his hands together in anticipation when he sees the Texan peering at his display window.

---------------------

The Judge will be starting Chapter 21 for the new adventure in a few days. At present, it will begin with only Jake and ENS.

Chapter 20 will remain open, for further play-testing if other players design a character.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 237):

FYI, the Judge has recruited a new player, someone known to yours truly. I expect that player to have a design ready in the next week or so and therefore the PC will join at some point early in the Chapter 21 "preamble" that will lead into the adventure.

The Judge is working on recruiting one more player, but not sure yet.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 238):

Delighted to hear that there is a third (and possibly even a fourth) intrepid individual who is willing to be seen in the company of the Judge, in spite of the harm that may be inflicted upon their own reputation by reason of same. :)

In reply to Jake Richardson (msg # 239):

There's no accounting for taste, in any universe, it seems.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 240):

Happy to announce that another new player has committed to play. And you should see a new player created in The Cast (Tracy Windham, with details to be fleshed out). Look for another in a day or two.

By the Judge's count, that is 4 players with a firm go.

It has been two months since the fade-to-dawn conclusion of chapter 19.

Current status as the Judge knows it is:

Artemus: procured rulebook, hasn't logged in nearly 4 weeks.
Cole: hasn't logged in nearly 4 weeks; indicated "intent" to procure the rulebook
ENS: procured rulebook, submitted SW character design; logging in regularly and ready to begin play
Jake: play-tested a character design; submitted updated design; logging in regularly and ready to begin play
JEB: procured rulebook, logged in recently but no posts or follow-ups
Travis: completed a PM play-test, hasn't logged in for more than 5 weeks; design ready, logins required to play
Tracy: joined game; discussed designs with Judge; login ready to play, design draft needed
Racer X (temp name): joined game; design discussion with Judge in progress; login ready, design draft needed

RL update: my wife has been going through some health issues and I was at the hospital most of yesterday and again today. It put me a little behind in my expected start-up of the "preamble" to the adventure. Please continue to log in and look for something from the Judge this weekend to get things moving.

EDIT: Aqua above.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:26, Mon 08 Oct 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 241):

Sorry to hear about your wife's health concerns, Judge. Hope that she feels better soon and gets out of the clutches of the sawbones.

Welcome to Tracy and Racer X! I'm looking forward to writing and gaming with you.  :)

And, off we go! It feels good to be posting IC again. :)

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 243):

I hope other players log in daily and participate regularly, as you usually do, Mr. Richardsen.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:28, Mon 08 Oct 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 244):

Thanks, Judge -- as I said, it feels good to be back in the saddle (so to speak), again.

I do have an in-game question for you. I am unfamiliar with the customs of Sacramento at that time (although I suppose, given that we are writing in an "alternate reality, we can set the stage as we desire -- within reason). As Jacob (IC) looks around, will he notice that men are generally heeled (as in, wearing a side-arm), or not?

I have mentioned in my IC post that he is carrying his long-arm in its scabbard, but was unsure as to whether he would be wearing his side-arm, or would be carrying it (and its holster) in his duffel bag.

BTW, I did look up duffel bags to confirm that they were in existence (and known by that name) at point in time that our game is occurring. :)
This message was last edited by the player at 15:34, Mon 08 Oct 2018.

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 245):

It's a good question . . . the Judge has enforced weapon ordinance laws in this game when the PCs have been in a place known to have such ordinances, historically. That includes Dodge City and Abilene, Kansas, where the Judge made that part of the game in chapters 6-7.

I can't point to any specific evidence of weapon ordinances in Sacramento in our game's timeframe. Agreed that we can determine for ourselves what might have been the rule of law in our Savaged Goin' universe. It was NOT unusual for towns large and small to have weapons ordinances, so in general, the Judge will rule on that in any given setting this game visits.

For Sacramento, let's start this way: Jacob and Earnest have been through this train depot before, but not into the city proper.

The rifleman remembers that the main saloon serving the depot requires a man to check his weapons at the door (picture the scene in the film Serenity where Mal and Jayne check their weapons before entering the bar on Beaumonde). Feel free to work this into the narration, as will the Judge.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com...-old-west-180968013/

Hey, y'all, and thanks for the warm welcome, Jacob!

I'm looking forward to getting my design squared away and joining in on the action. Until then, I'll be following along with the adventure.

Talk to you more in the near future!

In reply to Tracy Windham (msg # 247):

Congratulations on your first post, Tracy. Looking forward to seeing your draft character design.

In reply to Tracy Windham (msg # 247):

Good to hear from you, Tracy. Looking forward to meeting your character, IC, and to gaming with you. :)

In reply to Tracy Windham (msg # 247):

Welcome!

BTW Judge, can we get a date/time hack for the start of this chapter?

In reply to Earnest Nicholas Samuel Ringgenberg (msg # 251):

Based on our previous discussions to resume after the battle with the Tongs in SF, it is Monday 4/23/1877. It is just past noon, according to the professor's pocket watch.

In this alternate reality, did the War Between the States/Civil War occur, or did the North and South set aside their differences (at least for the moment) when the opportunity to invade and forcibly annex Canada presented itself, as we discussed at some point? Or perhaps the Judge has thought up a different set of circumstances. :)

Thanks.

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 253):

The Judge has thought up other circumstances, to be explored a little at a time, through Judge narrative and PC narrative. Everything the Judge is doing is based on Jake's "French Gambit" idea for Imperial France still ruling Mexico.

At this time, the Judge will say that the Civil War did in fact occur; the results of which are pretty much the same as our historical knowledge; however, other factors have changed.

Some quick setting facts:

Maximilian still rules Mexico, backed by the powerful French Foreign Legion. The Second French Intervention succeeded and has held power, even after the end of the U.S. War Between the States. The Union, barely breathing after the war, couldn't provide resources to Mexico's Republicans. Seward never invoked the Monroe Doctrine in regard to Mexico; Sheridan never supplied the Republicans.

Now some 12 years later, tensions between the Americans and the French are peaking, especially on the Texas border and the Utah territory border.

California itself is a state in the Union. Meanwhile, Arizona and Nuevo Mexico are ruled by Maximilian and the Legion.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:02, Wed 10 Oct 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 254):

Thanks, Judge. The primary reason that I asked is that I like to work some of the background facts (such as the ones that you mentioned) into Jacob's posts, along and along.

Is Jacob close enough to the desk to overhear the conversation between Earnest and the Frenchman (even if he cannot understand French)?

Thanks.

PS. If so, would he recognize the language being spoken as French (as distinct from, say, Spanish)?
This message was last edited by the player at 01:20, Sun 14 Oct 2018.

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 256):

I would say a Notice test is in order here, IC.

Meanwhile, OOC, it might be considered common knowledge to determine what language someone is speaking, if you don't know the language. For French and Spanish, it's probably fair to say that the Texan has been exposed to both socially in some way (because of the history we are establishing in this alternate game, especially in regard to Texas and Mexico) to tell the difference if he heard them clearly. Now, German vs. Swedish, probably not.

BTW, in RL I often travel to NYC for business and I stay in a hotel which caters to many European vacationers. I often play "identify that language" (in my head) when in the elevators, reception area and other public spaces of the hotel. So from the Judge's perspective, part of this would require a successful Notice check to take in the conversation in the first place and to identify the language as part of his noticing it.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 257):

Here are the results of Jacob's Notice Check. It appears that he was interested enough to turn his good ear towards the conversation over by the desk. :)

12:06, Today: Jacob Richardsen rolled 13 using 2d6, rerolling max with rolls of (6+4)10,3.  Notice Check.

Note to Self: Remember to check the "Drop Lowest 1" Box.

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 258):

Please make a narrative post in game re: same, and add the Notice check results.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 259):

Wilco, some time later today (am about to step away from the computer).

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 260):

Understood.

I'll be joining the game as Dave Walker. I just had a great chat with the Judge re: character generation and am looking forward to joining in the adventure. What could go wrong?

In reply to Dave Walker (msg # 262):

Howdy, Dave,

Good to hear from you, and looking forward to gaming with you.


I'll also admit to being a little curious as to what sort of characters you and Tracy will be playing. Any hints that you'd care to share? :)

In reply to Dave Walker (msg # 262):

Congratulations on your first public post. Looking forward to seeing / hearing more about the character.

In reply to Dave Walker (msg # 262):

Welcome Dave!

FYI, the Judge and Tracy are exchanging some PMs to help with start up. He is nearly ready to enter the game.

One of the questions was about the dice roller.

Jacob noted that some settings in the roller are mutually exclusive. Having played a little myself, I like using the manual section to enter the dice and I check the "record each die" and "reroll max." The latter will do an SW ace automatically. Jacob and I both saw that in his playtest. In my test example below, I set 'd10, d6' in the manual box and had my two items checked. (Terrible roll, the Judge is glad he got that one out of the way.)

I encourage everyone to make test rolls whenever desired to get used to the dice roller itself, or to usage in the SW game. Please put the word 'test' in the Reason field (with any other text you desire) and try it out. Use "secret roll" if desired. When ready for an actual game roll, make sure the word 'test' isn't in the Reason field.

08:31, Today: Judge Messalen rolled 1,2 using d10,d6, rerolling max with rolls of 1,2.  Test reroll max record each die.

Seeing as how we are playing in an alternate-reality game and I have recently described Jacob and some of his accoutrements, I wanted to mention that although, based upon what can be seen of the Texan's rifle (basically, just the stock sticking out of a leather scabbard), it appears to be a weapon common to 19th-Century North America, it is in reality a deadly laser rifle that Jacob won from a strange-looking little green man in a poker game when he was passing through Roswell, New Mexico.

Just sayin' . . . :)

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 267):

New players should take note: Jacob posted this tale in the OOC forum.

Now . . . . to forestall any misunderstandings, the Judge has no problem with the tale itself. Just reiterating the context for our new pards.

Dave is getting a serious makeover, on account of me butchering the rules when creating the character. Thanks Chris for the assistance, it was also very helpful to play TPSA. I should have it all squared away here in a day or two - looking forward to jumping in!

Looking forward to having you join us, Dave.

And yeah, character creation can be a little tricky when one isn't all that familiar with the rules. :)

Nice portrait, btw. I considered that one for Jacob, but ended up going with a different one. I don't know whether you remember the movie where that character appeared, but he was a real hard-ass. :)

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 270):

I'll be done tonight I think, enough to get started anyway!

Here's a casual question for the group w/ the French  - this is a pleasant twist for me because French was my second language in real life. I can't really speak it any more, but reading it is fun and instantly understandable for me.

Anyone else here know French IRL?

In reply to Dave Walker (msg # 271):

I took a couple of semesters of French when I was in college, but all I can remember of it now are a few of the more common phrases.

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 272):

Je parle un petit peu francais.

Enough to carry on a brief conversation. I can read French better than I can speak it. When listening, I can get the gist, as long as people speak it slowly.

So far, all the postings the Judge has made for Poirier have been without the aid of any online translation tool.
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:58, Thu 25 Oct 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 273):

All of that said, the Judge intends for English to be, perhaps ironically, the lingua franca in the game. The use of French, Spanish and other languages in this game is a means to establish characters and give NPCs recognizable idioms when the Judge makes NPC posts.

A la Poirier, je pense.

OOC: The professor hasn't logged in for almost 3 days. The Judge suggests the participating PCs move on.

We don't have to play out every mundane fact -- such as arranging further for rooms. It was fun and useful to RP that scene with the Professor in line and Jake with the steamer. It allowed us to establish some things and have some introductory RP amongst the players, including introducing a new player, as well as introducing an important NPC.

If the players want to skip ahead to the saloon to meet Poirier, that's fine. The Judge can set the new scene and the players can state things in continuing narrative such as "Tracy waited in line and secured a room for 'x' nights and then ... " and "Jacob and Earnest hauled the steamer to room 15 ... " as we move to Depot Dan's Saloon.

What say you?
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:14, Sun 28 Oct 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 275):

Sounds good !

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 275):

Yeah, I'm fine with that! Tracy also planned to check the newspaper in his haversack after the conversation between the characters ended, so should I make a post for that or would that be included with your post moving us along to the saloon?
This message was last edited by the player at 15:40, Sun 28 Oct 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 275):

Sounds good to me, as well. :)

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 275):

Sorry for missing a few!

As for understanding French, I actually never took any language courses (sometimes regret that).

In reply to Earnest Nicholas Samuel Ringgenberg (msg # 279):

All right, looks like i just needed to nudge ENS.

As for Tracy's question, the Judge will as he sees fit and the players may add detail or clarify things as they see fit in their posts.

Judge,

For flavor-text purposes, what time of year is it, and what is the weather like?

Thanks.

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 281):

As we had discussed in chapter 20 and this OOC, we are picking up where we left off after the SF adventure. Therefore, it is Monday, April 23, 1877. It is a slightly overcast spring day, not cold, but not warm by a Texan's standards, either.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 282):

Got it. Thanks.

Congratulations on your first official IC post, Dave. Glad to have you in the game. :)

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 284):

Thanks!

I am curious about this collaborative story telling RPG style... looks like fun.

In reply to Dave Walker (msg # 285):

Nice entrance.

Heads up - I have been referring to my character as 'Dave' in the narrative. I think I am instead going to refer to him as "Walker" instead of Dave.  I'm not inclined to go back and update prior references, but rather to just start addressing him as Walker.

Any comments / suggestions?

In reply to Dave Walker (msg # 287):

You may refer to your character however you want.

For me -- and I think at least the two continuing PCs -- I like to vary the references for more interesting reading. I wouldn't advise trying to stick to one particular name.

Jacob is: Jake or Jacob, or Richardsen, or the rifleman, or the Texan

Earnest is: Earnest or ENS, or Ringennberg, or the professor, or the Easterner

Dave might be: Dave, or Walker, or the drifter or the wanderer, or ...

Tracy might be: Tracy, or Windham, or the investigator, or ...

Alphonse might be: Alphonse, Poirier, the frenchman, the balloonist ...
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:38, Thu 01 Nov 2018.

I believe that Jake follows Tracy in the Initiative Order. I will go ahead and post his actions for this round in the IC (Chapter 20) thread, so that the Judge can adjudicate the results of both Tracy's and Jake's actions.

Dave, you might want to take a peek at the "Test of Wills" write-up on p. 86 of the rule-book (I just did, or else I wouldn't have had a clue about how to resolve the results of Jake's "Taunt"). :)

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 289):

OK cool thanks for the additional context there.

In reply to Dave Walker (msg # 290):

See the Judge's posts today re: the die rolls made by Jacob and Tracy.

The Judge will be traveling on business this week; expecting to continue daily posts although will be logging in less frequently.

In reply to Earnest Nicholas Samuel Ringgenberg (msg # 279):

BTW, regarding the usage of french in the game -- I know that many french characters have accent marks, but the Judge simply isn't bothering.

A few questions:

1) What time zones are the player in? I know Judge and Walker are in Eastern (usually, the Judge travels more than I do :)).

2) Seems natural that Walker would want to buddy up with the others and get to know them a bit before following Frenchie. How would that play out in RPOL? Would we go through the dialog? Seems like that would be fun but could take some time.

P.S. thanks for the Promontory Point reference. I never knew I was signing up for a geography / history lesson :). All good though!

In reply to Dave Walker (msg # 294):

I am also in the U. S. Eastern time zone. We are currently GMT-5. During the portions of the year that Daylight Savings Time is in effect, we are GMT-4.

In reply to Dave Walker (msg # 294):

1. All players and the Judge are on Eastern time, except for ENS who is on Mountain time.
   
2. An excellent question. You are correct to say that it would take some time to get to know each other better. Part of that is already happening. The Judge intended to spend some RP time doing that. How much time is up to you. We could play out a "meeting" of the men to discuss Poirier's recruitment (or whatever). We could do a scene change to that without having to RP the transition. We could cut to the chase and summarize further in IC narrative beyond the game's character descriptions and portraits. It's really up to the group at this time. Players should feel free to post their druthers on the subject.

Re: the PS ... the Judge bases many things on actual US history and part of his goal is to provide a history lesson via osmosis. Whether you like it or not. Of course, this game isn't always beholden to the facts -- but it is rooted in the facts, now with some twists to the alternate history as discussed and agreed upon by the current players in previous OOC and playtesting posts.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 296):

I'm new to this whole RPOL thing, but I'll weigh in here...

I suggest we wrap up this conversation with Alphonse, and then RP to the point where the players sit down to get to know each other, maybe without Alphonse there.

At that point we could switch to OOC and each list some bullet points of biographical data that their character would share in that type of meeting.

Then we could switch back to RP when that gathering is finished.

In reply to Dave Walker (msg # 297):

Those are some good suggestions, Dave. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Speaking for myself, I'm inclined to say that the "getting to know you" RPing can and should happen along and along, over the course of the campaign, as the PCs reveal more about themselves and their personal history through word and deed. Jake and ENS may need to work out a few details OOC, since those two characters know each other and have been traveling together for a bit.

I'm also inclined to say is that all that needs to be decided at the moment, IC, is who will accompany Alphonse Poirer to Nouveau Zion (presumably all of the PCs will work their way around to agreeing to that). It doesn't really sound like the saloon is set up with side tables where the PCs could gather. Perhaps we could fade to black and reconvene (IC) at a spot where there is a little privacy to discuss the "Nouveau Zion Gambit". :)

BTW, Jacob and Dave have logged in since Tracy's latest game post in Ch21 . . . wondering why no one has followed up? Is it because you are unsure how we are proceeding?

It sounds like enough players want to do some RP that you should take Tracy's invitation to sit and do a little RP discussion / narration. I would encourage players to use both speech and narrative text to convey information needed to at least move forward. But it doesn't have to be a "tell your whole story" interlude, it can be as the professor suggested, that is, the beginning of a long reveal about the four men, who (for the sake of the game at least) agree to proceed with Poirier.

That said, the Judge has other ways to move towards the intended adventure, if the characters don't want to take the silk merchant's offer. Or, the Judge could shift to a different adventure completely if there was no interest to travel to Nouveau Zion (whether in Poirier's company or independent of his offer). So it seems like a good idea to do some IC roleplay around this topic.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:33, Wed 14 Nov 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 299):

FYI for you all, I'm starting a vacation to WA for a friend's wedding. Thur 11/15 through Mon 11/19. I'll have a tablet and will endeavor to check in regularly (as long as I have service).

In reply to Earnest Nicholas Samuel Ringgenberg (msg # 300):

Thank you for the heads up. Always good to know in advance if you might miss a few days.

Looks like I owe a reply to both Dave and Tracy, IC. Regrettably, My posting window has closed for the nonce, gentlemen.

Howsomever, I should be able to post IC either later this afternoon or some time this evening.

A gentle reminder from the Judge . . . while the RP in Ch21 is great -- I have been enjoying the banter and "getting to know you" conversation -- the PCs will need to move the plot forward at some point.

There is no rush, but I sense the possibility of stagnation at the stage of discussion as of this writing, therefore my gentle reminder to move the conversation forward to a point where the Judge can follow-up on PC decisions about "where to next, pards?" as per the subject line of these recent OOC musings.

That doesn't mean you have to cut to the chase, but so far the "what's next" has remained a question asked, but no closer to being resolved amongst the group than it was before the conversation began. The Judge isn't looking for everything to be decided at this time, but a starting point resolutions would help, such as:

1. Are the 4 heroes going to Promontory Point together? How will they get there?
   
2. Are the 4 heroes going to accept Poirier's offer to go to NZ? (regardless of how; that is, regardless of whether they travel with him as he described -- train and balloon -- or if they get there on their own?
   
3. If none of the above, then what are the PCs interested in doing?

This message was last edited by the GM at 16:35, Wed 21 Nov 2018.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 303):

Maybe we can each write our own segway out of the RP for that day?

Maybe the characters can agree to meet up in the morning ready to go, or with next steps / options?

I know Walker for one, intends to sleep on it and make his final decision in the morning.

In reply to Dave Walker (msg # 304):

Those are all fine ways to move forward. All the Judge is asking is that the characters move the plot forward. That doesn't mean that conversation needs to end -- or even that the scene in the saloon needs to end at this time -- as long as the player posts are moving things forward, towards some agreements about what's next (even if the agreement, IC or OOC, is to sleep on it and resume RP 'x' hours in the future.

The Judge sort of expects some sort of follow-up with Poirier, IC, even if as above it's to tell him . . . we'll see tell you tomorrow. That's important, because . . . well, maybe he won't be in Sacramento tomorrow. And then the PCs would have to decide how to react to such a fact.

Judge,

Would the PCs (and Jake in particular) know whether there is a town or settlement of some kind at Promontory Point? If the train goes there, I assume that there is, but you know what they say about assumptions. :)

The reason that I ask is that Jake, ENS, and Dave (based upon what I have read in their IC posts) are pretty lukewarm about taking a hot-air balloon ride to Nouveau Zion (I don't recall seeing Tracy opine upon it, IC).

Thus, if the PCs think that they *might* go to Nouveau Zion, they will most likely need to go by horseback -- which means either buying horses in Promontory Point (hence, my question as to whether they would know whether there is a town or settlement there), or if none are likely to be available, buy them in Sacramento and have them transported by train to Promontory Point.

Also, has it been revealed IC how far it is from Promontory Point to Nouveau Zion? If so, I don't remember seeing it. Is an in-game Knowledge roll needed on this point?

Thanks.

PS. It occurs to me that Dave and Tracy (IC) might have their own horses. I'm pretty sure that ENS and Jake don't.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:27, Wed 21 Nov 2018.

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 306):

Good questions.

As Dave Walker asked in the game forum, characters can make Common Knowledge rolls as needed. His roll established "hundreds of miles" to Promontory Point, but not anything about how far from there to Nouveau Zion. That said:

We established that Promontory Point is where the railroads met, same as our history, and that this is common knowledge. It is a fair assumption -- no trait test needed -- that a train depot of that importance would have some kind of town around it. But no such fact has been established in the game for Promontory Point in particular. Perhaps this alternate history is different than our history on some accounts . . . in our history, Promontory Point didn't endure as a major town for various reasons . . . maybe it's different here.

The Judge definitely has something in mind about this, but it is germane to the adventure, so anything the characters want to learn in particular will have be learned (a Common Knowledge or other Knowledge, e.g. History, test; via actual RP; or using other skills held by the PCs to research and get the answers needed, such as Streetwise or Investigation, in combination with some RP . . . for example, if I wanted to learn more about a train station, where might I go? Maybe to a nearby train station? Not the only place the Judge can think of, but certainly a decent start).

True from the Judge's perspective that neither the rifleman nor the professor has a mount right now. In the previous reality, they had sold their mounts before departing for Frisco. And in this reality we picked up where they left off in SF, heading to Sacramento. And the Judge hasn't seen anything indicating the other two characters intended to have a horse at the starting point.

It's amuses the Judge that some (most?) of the PCs aren't interested in the idea of a balloon ride. Regardless, if the PCs desire to go to NZ but not by the route that Poirier recommends, that's fine. You'll just have to narrate how it's done. That is, making any arrangements that might need to be made, when they need to be made (as Jacob summarized re: horse being one way) and probably making some trait tests to get things done whenever we reach such a point in the game where those arrangements will matter.

In reply to Judge Messalen (msg # 307):

Sounds like it would be downright handy to know a feller with good truth-findin' skills. :)

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 308):

If only there were someone with whom Jacob was recently acquainted . . .

Walker and the Judge need to have a chat to finish up my character generation... planning on doing that later today.

Another question: how do I handle the current situation as a player... you guys are posting things that my character would not be aware of since he has left the bar? What is the best way to handle that?

In reply to Dave Walker (msg # 310):

As the Judge has mentioned before, everything posted in the game forum becomes public knowledge -- without the PCs having to update each other IC (for example, even though Earnest didn't specifically tell Jacob about the dining time at the hotel, since it was stated publicly Jacob would have had access to that knowledge because the characters have conversed since that time, whether the professor mentioned it explicitly or not.

So . . . eventually Dave would learn of anything posted publicly. But at the current moment, he doesn't know things just discussed, such as the time the dinner service begins at the hotel -- or the fact that the men plan to dine together that evening. Therefore, Dave Walker is on his own but he still may intersect with the men at a later time (no later than the next morning as stated when all 4 men were talking, but possibly the evening before). Whenever he reconnects with the others, Walker will learn whatever information has been posted publicly.

For now, unlike the others, Walker started in the saloon and not the train/hotel. The Judge and the player didn't discuss any particulars before the PC appeared in the saloon. The others secured a hotel room -- Walker may have done so already as well but that hasn't been established.

If the character wants to say he already secured a room at the same hotel and plans to eat his meal there like the others, that's fine by the Judge. If he wants to do something else (sleep in a cow pasture, get a room in a boarding house, pass out in a saloon somewhere else in town, well, that's the PC's prerogative.

Essentially, The players have around 3 hours do things before the evening meal begins at the Stockton hotel. It isn't clear to the Judge yet whether all four PCs will split up, or if any of them will stick together; that's why the Judge asked for PCs to state their intended actions / activity. At minimum, for those 3 hours and the ensuing "dinner hour."

Seeing as how letters and envelopes were recently a subject of conversation, is anyone else familiar with the idiom "French letter"? I admit that I was not, until I ran across the reference in a historical novel that is supposedly set in the same time and approximate location (the American West of the second half of the 19th Century) as our game.

As with many idioms, its precise derivation is subject to conjecture. I would be interested to hear the Judge's considered opinion on the issue. :)

In reply to Jacob Richardsen (msg # 312):

I suppose you could say a "French letter" is a kind of an envelope . . .

I didn't recognize that term, although when I looked it up, I thought the original term seemed familiar for some resason. That's a good one to wrap up this topic.

BTW, modifiers to trait tests in SW are applied after all Ace results are added up.

So a d6 + 2 that Aced twice, as follows, would be resolved like this:

Base roll 6, first Ace roll 6, second Ace roll 4:

6 + 6 + 4 = 16 +2 = 18 net result

Rather than:

(6+2 =8) + (6-2 =8) + (4+2 =6) = 24 net result

I don't think we have done this wrong even in the playtests and I believe the dice roller handles this correctly. This is for ongoing reference.