Gee... I wonder what this thread is for.

In reply to Mittens (msg #1):

For us to be fools on most likely. Either that or for eating chips and drinking rootbeer.

i found 2 templates for character sheets.  i like the first one (as indicated in the char sheet thread), but i'm open to opinions.  one thing i'm thinking is to improve the sheets to be VERY bare-bones with all non-essential info hidden with a feature called "spoiler" i've heard rpol has now.


(looks to see if i'm imagining things)

Out of curiosity, what will the other adventures be playing?  I was looking the classes over a bit, and with the removal of my favourite classes, I figured I would see what the others will be.

I want to make Mittens a Wizard with a touch of swordplay.  Paragon path Spiral Tower.  Tim could be almost anything.  Only character I know Rick making is a Dwarven fighter.

I FOUND IT!!!  Took forever, but I found a great way we can keep track of our maps!
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/dnd/20061121t

download it!  (won't be able to use the online version for our purposes as i'll explain...)

Takes a little getting used to... for example you cant place more than 1 copy of a tile on a map until you've changed the settings.  (Settings > Set/Extension Counts > Cnt)

This program was designed for making maps without player characters on 'em, so in order to have player characters, we'll have to change some of the tile graphics. (hence the need for the downloaded version.)  For example, I may wind up changing the "circle of mushrooms" graphic to represent my character.

once you've moved your character, you click on export current and post the data string for the rest of us to import!

(it's a very long string.  will likely have to make a separate thread to post 'em in so the rp thread is readable.) :p

i suppose with some tweaking i could get tables to emulate a map if for some reason we can't use the tiles mapper...





for giggles, here's what others put up with without this handy dandy tool:


here's an example of how a group of experienced players run 3.5 on rpol:
link to a message in another game

here's another example of how to run DnD (this time 4.0) on rpol:
link to a message in another game
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:27, Sun 21 Sept 2008.

Before I reply to the "FOUND IT!!" post, I'll give some added info.

Rick has the following:

Dwarf Fighter
Halfling Rogue
Elf Wizard
Human Cleric (I think)

As DM at the gamestore, he is currently using none of these. But he used his Dwarf Fighter primarily when we were learning the game.

Personally, if Rick uses his Dwarf, I might be using my Halfling Paladin. Otherwise, chances are high that I will use either Maverick (a rogue) or Eli (a Wizard). And since Mittens is going Wizard, it makes more sense for the universe if I used Maverick instead of Eli.

But in the end, you go with whatever looks fun. Personally, they ALL look fun to me. And there is a class I haven't looked at as much called "Sword Mage" that came out with a recent book I don't own (Hence the lack of looking at it).

Finally, for home-brew stuffs, I'm tempted to create classes of my own. Even as much work as that is, it presents much fun (for me anyway). A good example of a class that's missing other than Monk and Druid would be Enchanter or Bard. But we'll see. Rick and I both liked the idea of specialist wizards from version 2.

Oh... and hi there, Prathen.

Heya Tim, good to see you.

I've looked over a bit of the 4th Ed rules, they are a bit confusing to me,

As for what to play, a party always needs a dedicated healer, or else there is always trouble, and dead bodies littered everywhere. ^.^

None of the jobs really interest me in all honesty, with the lack of druid, so I can pretty much just play what ever I feel is needed once I know what the others are playing.  :)

Tim suggested something that I'm liking: create your own class.  Obviously, balance issues abound, but I think it feasible, especially if we keep the custom characters "quarantined."  Here's what I'm thinking... create two threads, "By The Book" and "Free Form."  In the first thread we'd play by the official rulebooks with only the classes available in them.  In the second thread, we bend the rules to allow for classes we invent such as Druid, Monk, (Thunder-monk in Raichel's case), Red Mage, etc...  We agree on the abilities of each then we play them out to see how we like 'em.

Example:
Furious Fists (Monk Attack level 1)
"You unleash a barrage of punches that force your foe to be on the defensive."
Encounter ✦ Martial, Unarmed
Standard Action Melee
Target: One creature
Attack: Strength vs. AC
Hit: 2d8 + Strength modifier damage.  The target cannot attack or take a standard action on it's next turn, but gains a +2 to all defenses until the start of it's next turn.

The above example is a rehash of basic attacks from other classes, turning the optional battle action "Total Defense" into one that's forced on your foe.  It's just different enough to be unique to the Monk class, and seems reasonable enough for a lvl 1 encounter attack.

Whether we choose to try the "Free Form" idea or not, I plan to get the "By The Book" thread started by the end of the week - just as soon as I finish reading the DM guide. :p  I already have a story arc in mind.
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:18, Mon 22 Sept 2008.

It has come to my attention that Rick and Prathen will most likely not be joining on a regular basis (if at all).

That leaves room for those players remaining to have a cast of more than 1 character (if they want) and drops the need for a "by the books" thread.  In the interest of moving things forward, I suggest all who plan to be posing frequently list the characters and classes they'd like to play so I can begin working on a campaign.

Myself, all I care to play are Mittens the red mage and/or her human counterpart Gale the wizard.

Joe I'm guessing will be happy to play just one character.

This leaves alt-itis Tim with the option of playing as many as 4 characters.  Heaven!  If you want to play more than 4, we should plan on a main cast and a few cameo appearances for the extra characters.

Also, the storyline will likely include your character's beliefs.  You don't have to choose a diety, of course, but it'll help me if you chose one who might show interest in your character and why.  Mittens for example doesn't pay homage to any diety in a signifigant way but would would sooner raise a toast to Avandra than to Corellon.

Here are my DnD characters complete with my head-scratchings over their futures via Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies. While that is getting WAY ahead of myself, it shows a general feel for what I want out of these characters. Also, I don't wanna play Callie here since I'm playing her Thursdays.


** Alexis
Race: Half-Elf (Half Elf, Half Dwarf)
Class: Wizard (Possible future multiclassing)

Paragon: Battle Mage
Epic: Archmage


*** Angel
Race: Human
Class: Wizard (Possible future multiclassing)

Paragon: (Battlefield Archer, Blood Mage?, Spellstorm Mage?)
Epic: ????


**** Butterfly
Race: Half-Elf (Half Elf, Half Human)
Class: Ranger (Archer)

Paragon: Battlefield Archer
Epic:


* Callie (playing Thursdays, so no need to be here)
Race: Halfling
Class: Priest

Paragon: Angelic Avenger (Radiant)
Epic: Demigod or Eternal Seeker?


** Dedo
Race: Halfling
Class: Paladin

Paragon: Justiciar
Epic: N/A


*** Eli
Race: Human
Class: Wizard

Paragon: Spellstorm Mage
Epic: Archmage or Eternal Seeker


***** Emerald
Race: Custom (Fox anthro)
Class: Rogue (Possible future multiclassing)

Paragon: Cat Burglar
Epic: Eternal Seeker


*** Maverick
Race: Human
Class: Rogue

Paragon: Master Infiltrator
Epic: Deadly Trickster


**** Raichel
Race: Custom?
Class: Monk (Multiclass Wizard)

Paragon:
Epic: Demigod


*** Shadowsong
Race: Drow
Class: Enchanter

Paragon: ???
Epic: ???


**** Starlight
Race: Warforged
Class: Fighter

Paragon: Swordmaster
Epic:


***** Timothius (Cleric)
Race: Shifter (Or Custom)
Class: Cleric

Paragon: Radiant Servant
Epic:


***** Timothius (Paladin)
Race: Shifter (Or Custom)
Class: Paladin

Paragon: Hospitaler
Epic:


**** T'shock
Race: Tiefling
Class: Fighter

Paragon: Iron Vanguard
Epic:
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:33, Tue 23 Sept 2008.

Narrowing it down some, Butterfly, Emerald, Raichel, Timothius (Cleric) or (Paladin), T'shock were your top picks.  Of those I'd pick Butterfly because she was designed for DnD and you've never RP'd her that I know of, and Raichel because you're not playing her on any other RPOL forum that I can think of.  If Timothius then GOTO Paladin because SFH merv may as well be a cleric.  Emerald you're playing on SFH, but playing her with stats should be fun.  T'shock you're playing on Faction, but she's the only other aggressive character on your list besides Rai.  If you go with 4 characters, drop T'shock.  If 3 then drop Emerald.

Support Characters:
Eli over Maverick because you're not using him elsewhere on RPOL and you can get away with an insane INT score and it not tip the balance of the universe for long.

Works for me.

Let's start with just 1 char per person using the core books and go with a chapter zero.

Joe: rogue
Timothius: paladin
Gale: wizard

If we like how chapter zero is going we can introduce characters along the way.  If we can we can scrap chapter zero's storyline once we decide we've gotten the hang of things.
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:32, Sat 27 Sept 2008.

  Works for... Wait, someone's said that already.
  I'll go with it anyways.  Works for me.

  Cool, Gale's is a Wizard with the same stats, skills, and equipment as Joe ;D

as i'm sure u guessed, i started making a sheet for gale and ran out of time.  been a very busy weekend.

  I am both filled with glee and absolute TERROR.

In reply to Joe Darkthorne (msg #18):

hehe.  happy for the glee part.  ^.^

  I'll get around to editin the Joe sheet so his powers and such are more conveniently listed like with Tim's and yours later.  And yes, not only can leather armor look good on a wiz, but it can give them better AC than Rogues with it <.<

 Edit: Shall continue poking at my sheet with a stick to further the 'lets find out what I listed wrong' cause and the 'make my powers easier for others to reference beyond them pullin out the rules and lookin for the name' ease of reading for powers tomorrow.
This message was last edited by the player at 06:31, Mon 29 Sept 2008.

Looks like you guys jumped right in. :)

I still can't get the PH in a digestable format, living in such a small town where I can't even find a copy of the book to look at, never mind buy, is a extream pain in the rear.  Ah well, not much I can do about it though.

Hey theres!  Thought you had a digital copy.  I didn't know you were looking for the published book.  You can get a new copy for $24 at http://www.amazon.com/Dungeons...p;pf_rd_i=0786950633

or a used copy for $18 at http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer...6948671/ref=dp_olp_2

Yeah, I have the PDF, but I have trouble reading those for some reason, expecally when its filled with stuff I do not understand. If I've read the real thing the PDF tends to be readable, since I already have a idea where things are, odd huh.

Maybe I will try to catch you and get you to help me make a character, I do not think I do so on my own, too much new stuff that I won't understand without a guide and translator.  =^.^=

  Elric will kill us all!  Provided you can die of giggles and 'that was awesome' moments.

^.^

Speaking of whom, he's inspired me to steer this forum in the direction of playing by the book.  Still going to allow custom classes if anyone goes to the trouble of building one balanced enough for us all to agree it's playable, but not going to allow 3x paragon paths and other craziness I was considering.

  Works for me.  I should at least figure out how things normally work before I start playing around with twisting it around anyways.

Well Elric will be quite fond of using the Magic Mouth ritual in pranks. (For example, practically undetectable whoopie cushions if it makes a long fart sound.)

For giggles, I'll post the house rules I came up with for Tuesday night's power leveling games.  As you can see, some are related to the storyline.  May keep a few of these ideas for the forum, but only if everyone likes 'em.

-------------------------------------------------------

House Rules for Tuesday night's "Age of Chaos" game.

XP is awarded at the end of each encounter to every *player* that participated.  Players entering combat late (after the first round is over) will have to wait till the encounter is over.  Then they appear in a bolt of lightning.  If more than 6 players show up, the lightning will strike again sending 1/2 the characters to an alternate, seemingly identical realm.  Those players who play leader classes get to pick their teams.  (If only one player has a leader class, he chooses his team as he likes.  If 3+ leaders, they roll for picking rights.  If 0 leaders then defenders choose teams.)

You can substitute characters in between encounters.  ZAP!  Your new character will have the same status: current XP, damage taken, used healing surges, used daily powers, magic items, action surges used, etc.

If anyone goofs on a turn (for example, forgetting to add your feat bonus to your damage roll) you can correct your goof before the start of the next player's (or monster's) turn.  After that, no take-backs.

Leveling up:  Gaining new powers happens the moment you're ready.  If at the end of an encounter you level up, you get zapped with lightning and mysteriously have new powers.  Plan ahead for what powers you'll take next level or game play could grind to a halt.

Action points:

You can spend action points to re-roll failed rolls until you have 0 action points.  (Great for making that daily power hit.)

Everyone gains an action point after gaining enough XP to classify as a difficult encounter without resting.
(At lvl 1 with 5 members, 688 xp or more.  6 members, 825 xp or more.)


Multiclassing:
It is permitted for a cleric to take the paladin's "Lay on Hands" ability as an encounter power instead of the "Divine Challenge" ability as described in the PHB pg 208.  (Want to swap something else?  Ask the DM.)

If you meet the requirements for a racial paragon path, you can take any feature(s) or power your level allows from your racial paragon path instead of taking one from your class, but this does not prevent you from taking a feature or power from your chosen class paragon path in the future.

If you meet the requirements for paragon multiclassing, (PHB 209) you can also choose to take paragon features and powers from either your primary or secondary class as described above with the racial paragon path options.  You may ignore the last 3 paragraphs of page 209.

At level 11 you can choose to multiclass into a 3rd class.  At level 21 you can multiclass into a 4th.  You can also choose to take paragon path features or powers instead of epics using the same rules as above.

You can potentially have paragon features from 5 different sources: racial, primary class, secondary class, tertiary class, and epic destiny, but will still have a total of 5 at lvl 30 like everyone else.

Misc:
Sustainable powers require the player to have line of sight to the power's origin square unless spelled out by the power's description.  (For example, a wizard's fireball will fizzle if it leaves the wizard's line of sight.)

  I suppose it’s fortunate the small player count here means that flashbacks to vicious kickball team picking shenanigans won’t turn up so often.  At least depending on how many multialts Tim and Mittens want to run.
  Team one will consist of Tim, Tim, Tim, and Mittens.  Team two will consist of, Joe, elric, Mittens, and Prathen.

  Just to get it out of the way in case Joe survives to Lv 2, Utility pick be ‘Fleeting Ghost’, and my at the moment assumption for Feat is 'Backstabber'.

  I’m most interested in that ‘qualifying for racial paragon bits’ thing.  Because along with it still sticking with single class, I have NO idea about the details for racial paragon bits.  Either I keep missing that part or it’s not in there.

  Also, can you option out of the lightning?  That both sounds painful and attention getting.  You got more stealth feats!... But that bolt of lightning drew the attention of everyone in the room you were hiding from, have fun!
This message was last edited by the player at 04:33, Fri 03 Oct 2008.

Heh.  The above are not to be confused with anything official for this forum, hence being posted OOC.  Just posted for a taste of the shenanigans taking place here in PA over pizza and soda.

I plan to stick to Gale, and Tim isn't likely to bring in his army of alts till after the new year.  1 team onry.

May as well ask here.  Anyone heard about WotC posting something about fighters getting dual wield powers?  I couldn't find it.
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:59, Wed 01 Oct 2008.

The dual wielding fighter stuff is in the Mithrendain section in Dragon 366.

BTW, Elric, welcome to the forum! Pic of the Timothius I'm playing, in case you haven't seen it:

http://timothius.deviantart.co...the-Paladin-97369076
This message was last edited by the player at 20:30, Wed 01 Oct 2008.

Thanks for pointing that section out, but it's not dual wield.  Just some nice powers for taking advantage of a high dex score.  I'm beginning to think the person who told me about fighters having dual wield powers was mistaken.

Look at the at will power on this web-page
http://www.wizards.com/default...x=dnd/dramp/20080905

In reply to Elric (msg #34):

That's what I was looking for!  Thanks!  Tried it out tonight and I'm loving it!  :D

I think the character sheets are overly complicated and hard to read, and that's just the crisply formatted one in the back of the PHB.  The forum translation is even worse IMO.  I simplified it for last thursday's game and the new format worked amazingly well.  My turns took about 10 seconds.

"Dual strike against guard drake 2"
*Rolls dice* d20=8 d6=2, d20=12 d6=3
"Kitau plunges both blades into the neck of the guard drake.  My lowest attack roll is 18 thanks to Callie's lance of faith, so both should hit.  11 damage total."

So here's the new simplified version.  I do not expect those who have already posted their characters in the text only version to convert their existing characters to the new format.  Once it's finalized, any new character must be on the new format. (Suggestions welcome)



Racial attributes: Gnome (Monster manual, page 277). +2 Int, Cha, arcana, stealth.  5 square speed.  Low light vision.  2nd language Elven.  Reactive Stealth.  Fade Away.

Class attributes: fighter's weapon specialization, +1 to 1 hand weapon attack rolls.  Tempest fighter: When dual wielding off-hand light weapons in chain or light armor, Kitau gains +1 to attack rolls, AC and Reflex; and a +2 to damage rolls.  (Source: http://www.wizards.com/default...x=dnd/dramp/20080905)

Feats: Two weapon attack +1 to damage rolls when dual wielding.

Character description/personality:
Cute female gnome with a dwarf's personality.  Nervous around magic.  Height, weight, diety, eye color, etc., etc.

Character background:
Parents murdered in her childhood by bad-guys.  Out for vengeance.  How original.

---

the [M] stands for "melee,"
[R] would represent ranged single target,
[C] would represent close,
[A] would represent ranged area attack.

This isn't grade school, so it's silly to have to show your work.  Feats, armor bonuses and penalties, racial stat bonuses, etc, shouldn't clutter up how you arrived at your oh-so-simple "+4 vs reflex; 1d6+4 damage," but I included the ones that aren't obvious at the bottom to specify which of the optional lvl 1 class traits I took.  I didn't spell out fighter's mark or fighter's fortitude or any of the mundane stuff that comes automatically with Kitau's class.  You should site your sources if you're doing something particularly out of the ordinary like I did with "gnomish tempest fighter."
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:14, Mon 06 Oct 2008.

I agree that the character sheets are rather large and bulky.

  I’ll get on reworking my sheet because it will save my own eyeballs a hassle as I look my stuff up too.

  As for the house rules, Yay!  Sane sensible rules as opposed to things like ‘players aren’t allowed to use this power combo’ followed up with enemies  constantly using said combo to maim players’

^.^!  I aim to please.  Feel free to offer additions / alterations to anything.  Only rule I won't budge on is the "no profanity" one, but current company is such that I don't think I even need to post it.

  No prob about the delay, it happens.  On top of the distractions that are still finishing building the place, such as it were.

  I'm assuming for the new sheet style, while race and class skills of the simple stat +'s end up on the bottom text pile,  the lack of Class traits and skills on the example would be filled in by more combat noteworthy things like Sneak attack and 'by the way, I have Hunters quarry' on the Joe sheet in place of Joe's lack of table worthy racial bits.

  As for the big pile o equipment, I'm gonna list the main things 'like preferred stabber and ranged + armor' in the table, while leaving the rest of the pile in the Bottom Pile.

  You may also want to link to the RPOL infobits on HOW to make the tables in case we people forget where thost wacky details are listed.
  /help/content.cgi?t=faqs&page=rubbcode  The 'Tables' section.  I had some time starin blankly, and it seems you may have to make sure the TR bit is always on the most outer part of a line?

  And just cause ive been starin at BBcode faqs...
↑ ↑ ↓ ↓ ← → ← → B A START
This message was last edited by the player at 07:59, Sun 05 Oct 2008.

I'm curious if I'm missing anything I should have for my sheet, if I wanted to jump into the play. I know nothing about 4e so I have no clue if I missed something vital. :)

In reply to Joe Darkthorne (msg #40):

Simplest way to build a character sheet using the new format is to click on [ quote ] and replace Kitau's name etc. with yours.  Then remove the [ quote ][ /quote ] tags.  Much easier than trying to rebuild the table.

Take another look.  You should find class traits and such and an explanation for why I didn't fill the page with stuff already spelled out in the PHB.  Maybe I should put that in my house rules.  "It is assumed that the player is marking the target of their attack with their class' mark unless stated otherwise."


In reply to Prathen (msg #41):

Feel free to jump into the RP.  If we find any kinks in anyone's character sheet we'll deal with them as they crop up.  This is one of the reasons you were invited.  I know the players here will be more than willing to fix mistakes rather than pitch a fit and say "but you approved of my 4 at-will powers it's not my fault!"
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:03, Mon 06 Oct 2008.

  True, my maturity of a 12 year old situation is more in regards to my world outlook and sense of humor.

  My figuring to list the Hunters Quarry with Joe was because it's a Multiclass  perk ENC power you don't generally figure when looking at a 'rogue' sheet.
  Besides, even without that my sheet will end up be larger than others due to the fact that instead of only one damage reference being needed like most others, Joe will be shifting between 87 different weapons (okay, only 4 so far) on the fly <.<  and a few extra lines per power stack up for reading length.

  I'm also wondering if I mistook the purpose of the in parentheses numbers for the stat listing, as the example sheet has numbers of both 16(3) sort and 14(3) listed with 12(2) as well.  If the (#)'s aren't the ability bonus, what are they for?
This message was last edited by the player at 00:10, Mon 06 Oct 2008.

In reply to Joe Darkthorne (msg #43):

OOPS!  Will fix that number right away.  14 does translates to a 2 bonus.  Sorry for the confusion.  Good call on mentioning the hunter's quarry quirk of your rogue too.

  Ah, so I wasn't wrong there, heh.  And yeah, I figure listing the Human racial traits in the table would be a waste of space for the same reason your example listed their class bits only in the text pile.  A big pile of +'s to a few skills or stats don't need to be invidiously known for the at-a-glance 'Combat helper' table.  Especially if those +'s are already factored in.

  And know how you feel Prathen, as this is my first go at playin DnD period.
This message was last edited by the player at 05:57, Mon 06 Oct 2008.

The only way I know of to get 4 at will powers at once is to go human warlock (starts with 3 at wills) and then at paragon tier pick up twofold pack to get a fourth at will and a 2nd pack boon effect you can choose from.

Well... that or go with Wizard of any race. They start with all those cantrips that count as at-wills and I've already seen someone use Mage-hand in battle to hold a sword to someone's throat, so I think they count.

Actually I was referring to 'at-will' attacks as at the time I forgot that I needed to make such a distinction. But ya there are ways to get lots of more at-will stuff but most of those are utilities and non-attack stuff.

Hmm, the new Barbarian Playtest is up
 http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20081006

I definitely won't mind play testing one of these guys although I can already see where a few things might need to be adjusted on them, unless the developers at WoTC really want to encourage noobs to nova and burn through all their dailies in one encounter and then go back to the one fight extended rest that 4th edition has moved away from.

Wow that looks FUN!  (and overpowered.  5+Con temp HP for every successful attack?!  Sheesh!)  I almost regret making Kitau a dual wield fighter... almost.  She was always one to favor fighting smart, though multiclassing into barbarian could prove interesting.  :)

One of the fun combos is Warforged and that deathless frenzy once per day you don't drop till someone takes you to your negative bloodied hit point value since the warforged can't fail a death saving throw. But if you can get healed every round, say from the regen rage, or some other power that offers regeneration (Regen 1 is all that is needed)...anyone could do that with a Soulfourged armor... and the soulforged armor isn't limited to once per day like deathless frenzy.

Another is using a glaive to combo heavy Blade Opportunity + Polearm Gamble + Pressing Strike... Anyone that moves in on you gets pushed back one square if you hit them. More if you pile on items to further your push distance. However the Glaive's 2d4 is sucky damage compared to other two handers, which can do 2d6, Brutal one + hammer Rythem, or 1d12 and High Crit or Brutal 2.

The biggest problem people are seeing with Barbarian is that to do good damage they have to burn a daily each encounter which leads to 'short days'...

Also Warforged with the Reperation Aparatus (A low level item) from the artificer playtest document turns that 5+Con Temp HP into 5+Con+2d6 Temp HP. (But given how low their AC, Reflex, and Will defenses will be they need all the HP and temp HP they can get to not get squashed flat rather fast as they are the ONLY light armor default class that does not have Int OR Dex as either a Primary or Secondary stat.)

Really tempted to make a Warforged Barbarian named 'Numbskull' or 'Moron' just for laughs.

  I'm sure 'Thick head' could be just as literal for a Warforged Barbarian as Numbskull (provided Warforged don't feel pain.

Thought it'd share a tool I'm developing for streamlining making new characters / updating existing characters.

http://spreadsheets.google.com...3bxPD0pRRy7-px7zNWGw

Work in progress, but I'm very pleased with what I've accomplished so far.  Part of the reason I'm making this is because Tuesday nights have become such an XP glut that I'm going to lose track of all the changes needed to be made to my character on a weekly basis.  I plan to make an editable public version once it's perfected.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:28, Thu 09 Oct 2008.

I have a post written and ready. 2 actually. One based on if I need to make a religion check. The other based on if I don't need to. The question is this: Would someone with training in Religion know off-hand who Ao is? Or is that something so uncommonly known that I would have to do a religion check?

Quick google of wizard's site and I find this tiny tidbit:
"Ao created the first gods," http://www.wizards.com/default...20071203a&page=4

From what I've heard, Ao is the D&D version of the Big Bang; an impersonal mysterious thing that set the universe in motion.  Was creation an event rooted in the laws of nature?  Is Ao a sentient person like the other gods?  If so, why is Ao so different from the other gods?  Why is Ao indifferent to the worship of mortals?

IMO the name Ao is probably common knowledge to anyone who worships a deity, especially to those trained in religion.

I agree with Mittens, in fact most of the names of deities and what they are best known for should be common knowledge, it's stuff like how those deities are worshiped or what do their holy symbols look like, etc... that would require religion checks of varying DCs.

Timothius tested the google spreadsheet map, and he was able to edit it.  There's no overt save option, but when he closed his window and I opened the document, his changes were still there.  At last an easy way we can share the same map!  If you want to double check if your changes are being saved, change the text color of your letter, close the window, then follow the link again to see if the change is still there.  :)

---

Also, added the following to the House Rules thread.  The idea is to keep things moving without being bogged down by RL schedule conflicts and what not.  If your turn is approaching at the same time a RL event is approaching, please let us know so this rule won't be needed.

Example: "OOC: Delgar delays indefinitely.  Family visiting tomorrow for who knows how long.  Back in a week I hope."


This message was last edited by the GM at 04:32, Sat 11 Oct 2008.

Please forgive me if it sounds like I'm being overly technical or restrictive.  DM rulings are always up for common-sense discussion.  My priorities are as follows:

1) Everyone has as much fun as possible.  (I'm having crazy fun already!)
...
10) Keeping to common sense.  (This is low because it's just a game after all.)
...
9,351) Sticking to a plot point.  (This is very low to prove a point.)

Also, I'll strive to create challenges that have at least 2 solutions that I can think of.  Example: 1) break down the door with big hammer, 2) use the key on the lock instead.  Over time, clues will become apparent, but not everything assumed to be a clue is in fact a clue to overcoming a challenge.  If a challenge takes too long to overcome, I'll simply make a way to skip it rather than give away the solution.  The players only lose out on whatever rewards would have resulted in solving the problem.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:49, Sat 11 Oct 2008.

That makes sense, especially when trying to avoid Total Party kills, especially due to situations resulting from screwy dice rolls.

But please don't pull traps like from http://www.dndgamer.com/traps.htm
as most of those traps are just DMs being a jerk... although a few are funny to read about, but still quite cruel.

This is an example from that site and is one that I found funny, but only because of what the Players did afterwards to the DM. I'd never approve of a trap like this being pulled on someone though

COUNTDOWN TO FREEDOM
"Party enters a 10x10 room, and stone doors seal the room at all entrances. Looking about, there is a button on the wall, beside a number dial (like on a gas pump) that counts down 10-9-8... Some bright soul presses the button, and the dial resets to 10. In my campaign, the party spent fully 45 minutes of real time searching the room for an escape, while one PC stayed near the button to continue resetting the dial. Finally, they said forget it, and let the dial count down to 0, at which point the doors slid open, and the DM was chased from the room."
This message was last edited by the player at 16:13, Sat 11 Oct 2008.

  Oh no, Mittens is making reasonable rules and priorities again! We're doomed!  But yeah, thanks for the heads up on the various House rules updates so far.  It's always nice to be told when rules are tweaked.

  And do get how a PC doesn't know things like 'there are exactly 8 cells' just via the map, but was too amused by the coincidental matching 50' distances not to mention it.
  The vague details from non-check looking told me what I wanted to know anyways.  Yes, the fires are taller than convenient jumping over height.  No, there isn't anything to conveniently catch a grappling hook onto the walls/ceiling with.

 Edit: Well, with the current Steep slope showcasing of the side view, seems Joe still doesn't know that no, there isn't anything useful on the ceiling yet due to Mr. Line of sight -.o
This message was last edited by the player at 07:26, Sun 12 Oct 2008.

The dice roller:
Located at the top of the screen near the logo.  Please remember to add your modifiers and type in the reason for the roll.  Then copy-paste the resulting log entry into your post.

---

Nature checks:
I can't find anywhere in the official rules that says players automatically know the name of the monster they're looking at.  I'll rule that common knowledge is the TYPE of monster, i.e. Beetle.  (Some monsters this isn't so obvious, but I'll make this the rule for all monsters.)  To know that it's a FIRE beetle, you have to succeed a D.C. 15 nature check.  Otherwise you only know it's a red beetle and can only guess that red has anything to do with fire.

Also, the details given for succeeding even a difficult nature check in the monster manual tend to be near useless.  I'm going to add a general rule that if you succeed a D.C. that's 5 higher than the highest listed in the M.M., you'll also know the monster's typical fighting tactics.  In the case of a fire beetle, that would be a D.C. 20.

---

Clarifying your turn:
If your turn is complicated, it could raise questions of whether you can do all that in one turn.  (Example: Gale's magic hand & mirror trick)  In such cases, please spell out what you're doing in terms of free, minor, standard, and move actions.  If you're taking an unusual action that may not be clear what game mechanic you're using, it would help to spell that out too.  (Example: Elric readies a move action triggered by Timothius' move action.)

No additional detail is needed when taking an ordinary turn such as, "Gale steps back 5' and blasts the zombie with a ray of frost!"  If you want to get colorful and add "The zombie fails to evade the attack and ice forms all over it's body," for flavor, feel free.

---

Fire is very hot
Attended a bonfire last night.  The flames were about 5' tall when it was at it's hottest.  Getting within 20' of it on a chilly evening made me take my jacket off.  10' away from the fire and I felt like I was getting sunburned.  5' or closer was literally painful and I couldn't stand it for more than a few seconds.  Even when the fire died down to 2' flames, the coals were still way too hot to approach.  We roasted hot-dogs using long metal forks while squatting behind a small wall of stacked concrete blocks.  :9

D&D characters are supposed to be superhuman to a degree.  Even though the fire in the dungeon is much hotter than the bonfire I was at last night, I'll use the same distances for taking damage from the fire.  Don't end your turn adjacent to the fire.  6 seconds standing next to 15' flames will hurt.
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:57, Sun 12 Oct 2008.

I do suggest however waiting till the DM tells you if you hit or miss before stating if the target fails to avoid an attack... otherwise you would have to reedit your post if the dice roll ends up as a miss.

Oops.  Yeah.  Got used to my Tuesday night players insisting on peeking at a monster's defenses.  From now on I will post the monster's defenses so you know if you hit or miss.  This will ease up some work on my part.  Player's discretion when it comes to using this knowledge to your character's advantage.  Just because I know that a fire beetle's reflex isn't as good as it's fortitude doesn't mean Gale knows to target reflex instead of fort.

Fire Beetle defenses:
HP: 32; Bloodied: 16
AC 13; Fort 13, Reflex 12, Will 11

  Just tossing this up inthe OOC before I run off to get at least initiative out of the way.

11:55, Today: Joe Darkthorne rolled 25 using 1d20+5. Joe Initiative.
Well, seems that if its something I'd likely win anyways, the dice love me -.o

  And this is also why I want to (if I live that long) pick up Nature for Joe.  I somehow doubt dungeoneering will be useful for half as many monsters that are still found in, you know, dungeons.
This message was last edited by the player at 22:52, Sun 12 Oct 2008.

Monster manual lists the following skill checks for beetles:
Nature DC 15: (Somewhat useful Fire beetle factoid.)
Nature DC 15: (Useful Tangler beetle factoid.)
Arcana DC 15: (Extremely useless Rot scarab factoid.)

Where's the dungeoneering checks?!  I'm going to say that anyone who studied dungeons will also have studied beasts that commonly live in dark places.  Feel free to ask "Should I bother with a dungeoneering roll?" any time.  In the case of beetles I'd answer, "Um yeah.  If you get 15 your character knows what's listed in the book.  If you get a 20 Joe knows how they behave in battle.)

---

Correcting player mistakes.

I realized I'd goofed once I started spelling out Gale's turn in terms of combat actions.  (See PHB page 268 for what you can manage in the 6 seconds of game time on your turn.)  Embarrassing though it may be to admit that I goofed, I decided to keep the goof and rule against myself instead of sweep it under the rug.  In the future, if a player breaks the rules, I will post the correction after the player's post and give the player a chance to correct the mistake.  Though I crossed out the mistake in my own post, I'd feel I was being rude if I did the same to someone else.  Also, I hate to see a successful roll be wasted, so I'll generally allow it to be used in some way such as allowing Gale the successful bluff roll on her next turn if she chooses.

House rules updated.
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:32, Mon 13 Oct 2008.

I am curious what sort of useage of Bluff is Gale going to want to use against the Beetle? going for combat advantage for the +2 hit or the hide? Also what sort of ability is being used to make an illusion of a person as that is beyond the cantrip's ability if I'm not mistaken.

  Just did a quick skim of all the LV 1-3 monsters.  Yeah, no Dungeoneering.  Even Gel monsters, you know, those things that include 'cube shaped dungeon hallway sized gel that lives only in dungeons' is a nature check.  As Elric pointed out to me, only 'Aberrant' monsters seem to count for Dungeoneering.

  The upshot from a hard rules standpoint being you need to look to the guy with Dungeoneering to know about Beholders instead of people with Arcana.  Yes, the thing with MAGICAL DEATH FOR EYEBALLS isn't known to Arcana.

  And as the laws of the universe demand, I roll a 1 with my newfound house rules perk.
  But at least my pair of rolls for needless acrobatics to move my 6 without stepping on known hassle tiles worked out, yay.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:26, Mon 13 Oct 2008.

Quite right.  Prestidigitation can't make a full-body sized illusion, only small ones.  I was aiming at fooling the beetle into attacking the mirror instead of Timothius using a (scary?) reflection of Gale preparing a watery Kamehameha in the mirror.  Or if it turns out fire beetles are afraid of water, maybe the reflection of Gale would fool it into running away.  The PHB doesn't list "fool enemy into attacking a mirror and/or running away from mirror" as an option for bluff, but it seemed the logical skill check.  I don't think it fair to say either "mirrors always fool foes" or "mirrors never fool foes" hence the need for a skill check at all.

I suppose I could have made the beetle roll a DC 15 insight roll, implying that it's always just as easy to see through a mirror trick regardless of the circumstances.  But in this case I'm adding in Gale's acting skills into the equation, so I think it fair to say her paltry +1 bluff skill could be used against the bug's (surprisingly equal to the average human's) wisdom.

Wizards can keep up to 3 prestidigitations active at a time (PHB 159).  Mage hand is a separate power, so it would be one presto for the mirror and a second presto for the swirling ball of water between her hands for a total of 2 active prestos.

Thanks to the DM's ruling out bluff this turn, I doubt the beetle will be fooled into attacking a mirror with an nonthreatening reflection of Gale...  come to think of it maybe I can sort of pull this off after all!  I'll use my last presto to add watery sounds to the mirror!  Maybe that way the beetle will have to succeed an insight check!  *checks*  Nuts.  Adding a presto is a standard action too.  I can't even add the second presto much less a third this turn.  ;.;  Oh well.

DM interjection:
Even if Gale had managed to pull off all the needed magic tricks to make a believable reflection in the mirror, it wouldn't convince the bug to attack the mirror for several reasons.  Timothius was the first enemy in the bug's view.  Even if he were the last in view, Timothius would appear to be twice as close to the bug as Gale.  On top of that, the mirror is only the size of a typical bathroom mirror, so it would become increasingly unlikely to fool even the dumbest of monsters as it approached.  Finally, unless the mirror was placed eye-level to the bug, the angle of the mirror would have to be adjusted as the bug approached to keep the reflection of Gale in view.  I think it safe to assume the mirror would have been eye-level to Gale and that it is too much to juggle to angle the mirror just right while tracking a moving target and keeping 3 prestos going.

Gale: "Killjoy."

---

LOL, Joe!
This message was last edited by the player at 04:00, Mon 13 Oct 2008.

Look what I found!

Monster Knowledge Checks:  PHB Page 180.
Regardless of the knowledge skill you're using, refer to the rules here when making a check to identify a monster.

Monster Knowledge: No action required -- either you know the answer or you don't.


This tells me that a player makes a "look at monster" roll, a d20 with no modifiers, then makes a short list.
*Rolls an 11*
My arcana result was: 20,
My dungeoneering result was: 18,
My history result was: 15,
My nature result was: 18,
My religion result was: 15.

The DM then checks the results against the table on page 180 AND the monster's listed DC tidbits in the monster manual and reveals the following.
DC anything over 15 (could have used the history result to know this) tells you: "The foe you face is an angel of valor, a medium sized, immortal, humanoid (angel).  Angels of valor are courageous and fierce."
DC anything over 20 (in this case, arcana) tells you: "The only attack it has is it's flaming great sword, (standard; at-will) Fire, Weapon
+16 vs. AC; 6 fire damage"
DC religion over 15 tells you: "Angels of valor are the soldiers of the gods... etc."
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:40, Mon 13 Oct 2008.

The DDI 'free trial period ends tonight/tomorrow morning (and subscriptions will be required from midday tomorrow onwards) although the online Dragon/Dungeon magazines prior to this month's will remain online.

http://www.wizards.com/default...x=dnd/4dnd/20081013a

Quick question since I noticed both Prathen and I have an intiative of 4, so who goes next?

House rule: so long as you post your turn in order with respect to the enemy you're fine.  So Prathen kinda jumped the gun posting before the beetle, but that's no big deal in this case.

  Mild less hassle for me,  Don't need to try and cram the 'attack second the beetle attacks someone' readied result into the correct moment of space and time, as why bother when the roll missed anyways ;D

  Also, while I grasp the 'people can go in their turn order as long as there aren't enemy turns in the way' thing, I think I'll wait until Elric gets to go at least once before makin my second move.

  Buterfly and Emerald look good, though I wonder what different class At-Will=encounter attack the former will pick up once they remember they get to, heh.  Emerald meanwhile seems a lot better at her job than Joe <.<

  Even further edits! Were this a console RPG (or we didn't have to deal with pesky things like eating and mind numbing boredom ), that tile would probably be reset about 87 times before the party continued on.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:01, Wed 15 Oct 2008.

Okay since in another RPOL game that still uses 3.5edition rules... I just made these three rolls...

23:01, Today: Secret Roll: Wurgoth rolled 18 using 1d20+4. move silently roll, will suck.
23:01, Today: Secret Roll: Wurgoth rolled 21 using 1d20+4. Hide Roll, will suck.
23:01, Today: Secret Roll: Wurgoth rolled 18 using 1d20+2. Survival roll, will suck.

From now on I will be adding the ',will suck.' to all my dice rolls as I am tired of rolling 4 and under on my d20s.

  For future reference, How did Gale go twice before the beetles did anything?
  As the sequence of events just for the Bugs and Gale since initiative was made has gone Gale, Bug, Gale, Gale.

  Then again, Gale is the only one hitting anything so far.  So maybe this is a bad thing to ask about? <.<
This message was last edited by the player at 03:15, Wed 15 Oct 2008.

LOL, Elric!

---

Good call, Joe.  My own system is confusing me.  To save time I posted immediately after the bug.  Lil bit later Timo posts.  Me thought I was supposed 2 post after him.  In my defense, I'm very sick with some kind of stomach bug.  Gale post deleted.

Also noticed I posted before Elric.  I guess that's permissible under the house rules, but I'm gunna majorly confuse myself that way.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:34, Wed 15 Oct 2008.

You took out gale's move after I had already rolled for the AoO... guess I'll just use it for my attack next round as the to hit roll and damage would be the same anyways..


23:27, Today: Elric rolled 14 using 1d10+4. Dmg to FB1, will suck!.
23:27, Today: Elric rolled 25 using 1d20+7. AoO on FB 1 due to move, will suck!.

Adding the ',will suck!' makes a WORLD of difference for me, goes from whiff... to Bug-ka-bob!

Actually Joe hit on his AoO... he forgot to add the +3 from his short sword's prof bonus to his AoO attack roll

23:52, Yesterday: Joe Darkthorne rolled 11 using 1d20+2. Joe AoO To-hit.
since he just rolled d20+str bonus  as melee basic attacks use str not dex, and Joe omitted his +weapon prof. bonus which is +3 which changes his 12 into a 15 which hits FB1. (On mitten's roll btw, mittens forgot to use str mod instead of dex mod as it is a melee basic not a rogue at-will)
This message was last edited by the player at 04:05, Wed 15 Oct 2008.

  I was more upset over the fact it was a roll for a Knife instead of a Short sword, heh.  I mock that little +1 to hit!  Mock it as the dice mock me most of the time!  Well, that and had my hands full of Short Sword and Sling at the time anyway.

  Granted, having the GM run the AoO attacks in general would keep things runnin smoother, as opposed to having to wait for certain players even when enemies so much as move.  But in this case, I did finally make a hit roll <.<

  But of course, there are worse things.  As mentioned, we're getting the hang of this.  And Oh no!  The GM gave me a statistically better chance to hit than my own methods of choice would have, on top of an extra +1!  How could they? ;D

  And now, to get to detonating bugs while the bug detonating is good, unless I roll a 1.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:52, Wed 15 Oct 2008.

Well since Prathen can make a running up to skip that one known 'trap square' and since he does have training in acrobatics he can't fail to make the jump (as he only needs to roll a 5 to jump over 1 square with a running longjump (as he has two 2 squares prior movement he needs) and even a min roll of 1d10+8 with a 1->=9 gets him 9/5=1.8 squares distance which is .8 squares more than he needs. Thus odds are we aren't going to get a 3rd fire beetle unless someone steps on that square again.

Assumed it was a knife in your hand because I saw +6 on your last attack, which when I look at his melee basic attack = knife.  Goes to show my ignorance of rogue/Joe.  Yes I forgot to add in the righteous brand for the AoO.  I'll blame that on being sick and my general ignorance of battle cleric.  At least this time it's no big deal 'cause the bug was defeated the very next turn.

I'd rather be the one rolling AoO for foes that provoke from players for streamlining's sake.  If I screw up the roll in your favor just don't say anything.  Does the dice roller allow players to roll on behalf of another character?  I would like players to handle taking AoO from enemies on their turns should they chose to take an action that provokes.  Shouldn't be too hard to figure the foe's basic To-Hit and damage from previous rolls.

  There is no 'on behalf of' option that I see from the player side.  But can always indicate what it's for in the reason.  And if you screw up in the 'missed, that's it' sense, got no problems with letting it go in future.
  Though I'd think having someone use a weapon they're not even holding or some other beyond dice miss screw up would need pointing out.

Right now in combat Tim has spent 2 Healing surges one when Elric healed him, and another when Tim healed Gale, and Gale has spent no healing surges. Good thing Defenders tend to get a lot of healing surges per day (which are replenished with extended rests.)

Timothius and I discussed the extremely restrictive rules regarding intimidation in combat.  (PHB pg 186)

To convince an enemy to surrender in combat, it
- must be bloodied
- gets a +10 to it's will defense against the check just for being mad at you.
- gets a +5 to it's will defense against the check if you don't speak it's language.

That puts the DC of the check against a fire beetle at 25 - literally impossible for Timothius - even if the bloodied condition was met.

This ties into his frustration that the successful nature check didn't prevent the first beetle from attacking Gale.  A little familiarization with the monster manual uncovers that certain monsters, such as minions of intelligent races, will flee if they feel they're in a loosing battle.  Far as I can tell, beetles will attack anything labeled "player character" to it's dying breath, hence my decision to have it attack Gale.  I realize this is just a game after all, but why are language-speaking minions the only ones allowed the instinct of self-preservation?  (I excused it's attacking a healthy creature more than twice it's size (something that even a pride of lions is reluctant to do) by telling myself it was very, very hungry.)

A DM's job is difficult when it comes to trying to maximize the player's enjoyment while balancing it all against common sense and the rules of the game.  These three conflict very very often, but it's especially difficult when the rules say stuff like, "you can use a nature check to tame a beast as part of a skill challenge" and I can't find anywhere that says "taming a fire beetle takes the following: DC 15 nature to calm it.  if successful, and if there's no other threats it can attack, a DC9,000 nature check makes it your pet till the day it dies.  Otherwise you have to fight it, lawlz!"  Give me restrictive rules so I can laugh at them and replace them with reasonable house rules!  -.-

I want to encourage players to try alternative solutions to encounters and play around with their abilities like I've been doing with Gale, but I feel my hands are tied.  I don't want to change the rules every time they don't make sense or I may as well re-write the entire game.  I don't want to create new rules every time the rulebooks are vague for the same reason.  I guess in the future I'll let the dice decide, common sense or no.  Lack of flee option in monster manual or no.

"Does the fire beetle understand that biting at the armored cat means certain icy-stabby-arrowy-slashy doom and that running is a better idea?"  *Flip coin*
"Can a hungry fire beetle be convinced that your allies aren't lunch with one successful nature check?"  *Flip coin*
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:05, Fri 17 Oct 2008.

That is why Rule zero has always been to the effect that the DM can change any rule the DM feels needs to be changed for the situation.

I agree that intimidation is a bit silly still since there should be a penalty for the target for witnessing its allies being killed. Also there is a new heroic feat in the Dragon article that came up today about gladiators that gives a person +5 untyped bonus to intimidate checks for the rest of the encounter each time you score a critical hit. Not yet sure if it stacks with itself if you crit 2x in a fight... but with how it is worded it looks like it is possible... after all the more I see someone crit in a fight... the more I'd be worried that they'd be critting me next.

And yes I have the digital subscription to Dragon/Dungeon... the articles seem rather good, not perfect but well worth the subscription.

However regarding insects, most insects don't have enough of a developed brain to realize they are loosing a battle...which is why vermin were considered mindless in 3.5, anything with true animal level intelligence will however consider tactics and a tactical retreat when it is appropriate. (However if there is no where to run to, they will fight to the death.)

I think I noticed a typo in Timothius' character sheet, sinc Paladin's have a base of 10+con bonus healing surges per day Tim should have 11 healing surges, and have spent two so he's down to 9 healing surges. (But tim's character sheet only lists 8 healing surges.)

Thanks, Elric. I'll fix that to show 11 and put my current number of healing surges in my posts.

Critical failure on knowledge check for fire beetles!

Gale fails so badly at knowing about beetles, she falls off her stool and takes 1d4 psychic damage from the magnitude of her ignorance resonating in her skull.

This is why I think that critical failure events that some DM's like to employ are absolutely silly...  however, players are allowed to inflict whatever penalties upon themselves their heart desires.

  Oh man.  I had someone want to have my a char of mine have a seizure because I crit failed a perception check.  Bad enough it was also time number 97 they had a cloaked sniper trying to sneak attack with a beam cannon capable of one hitting the toughest char in the group, from the top of a skyscraper, through game mechanics declared Illegal for PC's to use by the House Rules.

  That and Joe totally rolled a 1 on his nature check first, heh.  Maybe that's why I was failing so hard at knowing where to stab? (the answer, being 'anywhere').

  Also, just occurred to me.  While the Map feature the GM has access to making a menu option here wont be of use directly,  you could put a link to the spreadsheet map in it.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:57, Sun 19 Oct 2008.

Sheesh.  I'm glad I stick to MMOs where the mechanics are broken for everyone.  :S

Good idea on the map suggestion.  Will do.  *returns disseminated*  It's an image upload only.  Can't post a link there.  -.-

About the spreadsheet map:  Ctrl-Shift-F cycles through different levels of clutter on the page.  I recommend trying it.  :)
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:23, Sun 19 Oct 2008.

Can't-trip

PHB pg 159 describes the wizard cantrip "prestidigitation."  The idea is to have any small, harmless magic trick you can imagine at your fingertips.  The trick is defining "small" and "harmless."  They try to narrow it down by giving examples and then finishing with the general rule "Nothing you create with this cantrip can deal damage, serve as a weapon or a tool, or hinder another creature's actions.  This cantrip cannot duplicate the effect of any other power."

Let's go down the list of examples to see how they can break that rule.
-"Move 1 pound of material." 1 pound stone pushed off a shelf onto someone's head would deal damage.  Drop it onto a nail and it's a tool.  Place it in orc's path for him to trip?  Hinder creature's actions.
-"Instantly light... a campfire."  Can deal damage, be a tool, and hinder creature's actions.
-"Produce a small item that exists till the end of your next turn."  yeah...
-"Make a small item disappear till end of next turn."

You get the picture.  Judging from the name "prestidigitation," I'm guessing the developers wanted to make wizards able to emulate magician illusions, only the magic is real and the rabbit you pull out of your hat can't be used as a projectile weapon.  But you can't have it both ways, Wizards of the Coast.

Given the examples given by Elric and Joe after this post, this power has the potential to be very unbalanced depending on how the DM treats it.  I'm tempted to gimp it up one side and down the other.  On the other hand, prestidigitation has been a large part of the fun I've been having with wizard.  I'll share what I've been using as a rule of thumb for filling in the blanks.

"Small" = 1'x1' total volume.  5 pounds or less.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:30, Tue 21 Oct 2008.

  Not to mention the various weapons, ammo, and clothes that weigh 1 lb.  Daggers, arrows, two sets of shuriken, someones pants.

In these cases the cantrip itself isn't doing the damage but whatever is being manipulated can, but it could also pull a level that causes something to occur to kill someone (say flooding a room and someone cant' get out.)

Can also use a cantrip to move a 1 lb alchemical 'bomb' that then goes off. the cantrip does no damage, the alchemical explosive consumable item does.

On another note... any clue how we get past this room? I don't think wearing one of those glowing organ things as a hat is really going to inspire Elric to find the solution.

  Well, the obvious exit has been finally 'seen'.  Shall get to acting on Elric's earlier suggestion about good trigger tiles if nobody else does.

Timothius has an idea and plans to post it first thing tomorrow morning.  :)

I think this video makes Timothius' OOC point:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2a-N6nJZPQ

Surviving an encounter like that would bring you to level two at least.

  It's probably that same quirky way that Elves who have spent nearly a century studying magic in their dramatic backstory have the same oomph as some guy who just happened to do some arcane research over the weekend.

  Or why all that irate wildlife a trained Ranger has offed during his life doesn't do anything more for him than the guy who works at the slaughterhouse.

  You're backstory doesn't count unless there are game mechanics involved.  Of course, I've also run into plenty of times where people felt it didn't count because it wasn't as fancy as cannon comic book characters when there were no game mechanics.

As I mentioned earlier, I want to design encounters to have at least 2 solutions.  So far for this one, I've planned for 4.5 solutions.  (I'm only counting Gale's running through fire idea as 1/2 a solution 'cause Timothius had the better version of the same idea.)  I'll break down the rewards I plan to dole out depending on the team's success to whet the appetite and for future reference.

Gale's fire walk:  300xp total / 60xp per player. (And a charred team.)
Timothius' beetle stack:  300 total (plus 100 for each additional beetle slain) / 60xp per player (and far less painful than Gale's idea.)
Solution #3 I originally planned for: 500xp total / 100xp per player and the DM has to think of a different plotline.
Solution #2 I originally planned for: 2,100xp total / 420xp per player
Solution #1 I originally planned for: 2,500xp total / 500xp per player
Genius solution that the DM didn't think of but is too clever for words: same as solution 1 plus bragging rights.

Also, I plan to have a nice non-xp reward, but it's the same regardless of how much xp you earned.
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:24, Thu 23 Oct 2008.

Well if Elric was smarter he'd realize that there has to be a 'correct square' so a slow sweep of the room square by square avoiding the ones already known to be dangerous should reveal which square that is, without needing to use bug parts as it's a one pass sweep. Also... what happens if you case Ray of Frost at a fire repeatedly? Would it put the fire out?

  My original plan was to detach the door into the room, and quickly use that as a platform over the fires (yes, its wood.  But it'd probably last a tiny bit).  But events have revealed that the door probably isn't long enough to do so.  On top of the fact said door is next to the bug trigger, so that'd be a hassle.

  Second plan was to see if you could hang off the ceiling to drop down from grapple/rope, but that's a no go and Mage hand cant handle that kind of weight.

  The sweep plan was the next which I'd be getting to if nobody else did, now that nothing is trying to directly kill us.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:17, Thu 23 Oct 2008.

My guess is that repeated ray of frost directed at a camp fire would put it out the same way a garden hose would.  But this fire isn't fueled by wood, (obvious enough to the team from the lack of crackling and popping) and it's large enough and hot enough that a garden hose would have little hope of having much effect much less putting it out.

Hadn't thought of using the door the same way as the beetles.  Yay!  Now that you mention it, the door could have been laid across the trigger square to prevent it being stepped on again.  But who has time for that, right?

I'm no McGuiver, but I bet there's a way to make the rope-swing idea work somehow...
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:36, Thu 23 Oct 2008.

Now, we just have to wait for Prathen to tell us about the tile that has been discovered.. after all none of us read minds.

Edit: Good thing it wasn't a long wait..
This message was last edited by the player at 22:16, Fri 24 Oct 2008.

  Unless you have something like Quick Draw feat (Which Joe has), or something specifically mentions, drawing or putting away a weapon or most anything is a Minor Action, while dropping things is a free one.
  So FB 1 currently has 9 as opposed to 2 HP I believe.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:37, Sat 25 Oct 2008.

Yep, also switching grips on stuff from one to two hands or two to one hands is a free action as well. This is most often pointed out when dealing with versatile weapons, but it is also comes into play when switching something from the left hand to the right hand or vice versa.

*searches PHB*  Looked under versatile weapons, free actions, shield properties...  couldn't find this rule.  Tim and I both agree that paladins ought to be able to use a light shield and still grip a versatile weapon with two hands for the added damage, but I have yet to see an indication that this is allowed.  This would also be nice to know for sword mages.  It'd be grand to use a versatile as a 2-hander then use a free action to let go with your off hand to get the added AC bonus for having a free hand.

It could be argued that even 2-handers can be used this way given enough strength to hold something "that heavy" in one hand for 6 seconds between attacks.  Given that even the heaviest 2-hander in the PHB is only 12 lbs, and someone with a Str of 8 can lift 80 lbs no prob (40 with one hand), it's not a big stretch to say anyone can use a 2-hander as a versatile.  I happen to own a bastard sword that's close to being a 2-hander (thanks to Timothius giving it to me as a gift) and a large shield.  Even with my unheroic strength I could easily swing the sword around with one or two hands even with the shield strapped to my arm.

But this brings me back to the conversation I had with Elric about "shouldn't heavy weapons like a 12 pound maul automatically knock foes prone at least on a crit?"  I had to conclude, "oh well.  common sense be darned.  if the power doesn't say you can knock 'em prone, you can't knock 'em prone."

It's mentioned on the WoTC 'Ask Wizards' Q&A.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/4ask/20081008

Thanks, Elric.

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Introducing: Support Characters!

I think we've gotten the hang of this well enough that if you want to bring in more characters (not more players) feel free to introduce them here.  You will have until midnight Thursday to decide and post if you'll be adding a char or more.  If by then we only want to add a few characters, they'll appear in one of the dungeon cells, asleep.  Nah.  I'll just plan on all the new characters to be part of a separate storyline as their own unique team.  For now I plan to add an unaligned orc warlord.  Nah.  What I'll do is make a way for players to swap out jobs / characters after each dungeon and make that part of the storyline.  As for specific house rules for the new storyline, I don't expect much use of the following, but here goes:

"Replace the word 'Race' in the PHB with the word 'personality.'"

What this means is if you want a character who looks like a dragonborn but has the all the attributes listed for the dwarf race you only have to explain it away with "Dragor is a dwarf under a permanent illusion spell that makes him look like a Dragonborn," or "Fluffy is a dog who was raised on a steady diet of uranium ore.  Over time he developed dwarf-like attributes," or whatever.  To make a custom 'personality,' such as Timothius, PM me with the idea.  I've made up my mind I reeally hate that if you want to 1-hand a great axe, you have to be some butt-ugly race.  Now aesthetics won't be a limiting factor when choosing "race."

Same applies to weapons and gear.  If you don't like how a weapon you can use is named, change the name and keep the properties.  For example, the whip is the only 1 handed reach weapon.  If you would rather it described as a "magical attack hamster on a leash" go right ahead.  Just be prepared to get some funny looks if you're running around in blue spandex insisting your skin is as tough as full plate armor.

---

Being on the same page

Does everyone have the Adventurer's Vault and the Forgotten Realms PHB?  I'd like for us to all share the same options.  However, I'll assume you don't care if you have all the options the other players do.  (Stuff like sword mage, or dark pact, or background bonuses, etc.)

Forbidden classes:  for now, anything with the keyword "playtest" (such as barbarian)  On second thought, does anyone have a problem with the other players using incomplete classes that have been intentionally leaked by WotC for playtesting?  Even as broken as they are, I'm willing to let the players here fool around with them if they want to.  (Personally I think it's practically a waste of time.  You get attached to your barbarian powers then they pull the rug out from under you when they finally get around to publishing the official barbarian rules.)
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:59, Sun 26 Oct 2008.

  While the 'don't want to look like a dragon to have dragon powers' thing seems in mind, I foresee about the only reasons most people would pick Human, as tradition apparently demands, killed execution style with the body dropped off a bridge.

  Even before this turned up, as Butterfly didn't used to have quite so pointy ears.  http://timothius.deviantart.com/art/Butterfly-12321218

  As for playtest stuff, those seem less good idea also due to the hassle of easy reference for most everyone.  Ranger?  Everything clearly listed.  Sword Mage?  Again, everything clearly listed.  Even though that's a different book, it's still a whole book.

  Sifting through a magazine or Q&A thread # whatever to find particular bits of information, not so handy.

  Do hope the alt adventures turn out for the alt inclined players though ;D
This message was last edited by the player at 01:47, Sun 26 Oct 2008.

Heh I don't see humans becoming extinct by allowing them to pick from other races' abilities.  I may not be inclined to play a human looking character in a fantasy setting, but I'm the exception to the rule.  The human look is apparently extremely popular given race choice statistics in the MMOs I'm familiar with.  The idea was kinda inspired by my love of the freedom found in City of Heroes where your appearance has no bearing whatsoever on what you can do.  In any case we'll see how it goes and how much everyone likes/dislikes it in practice.  I for one would much rather look human and carry a big axe than look like a cow with a big axe.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:16, Sun 26 Oct 2008.

  I will admit that being able to pick up whatever racial bits, while still technical human would be something I'd use myself at times.  Though it was convenient that the 4'th ED Human traits were stuff I liked anyways, heh.

  I am the bestest distraction ever.  And the nice thing about Mortal enemies, is that they are Mortal.  Nice Map tidbit there.

  If I could get a char slot named 'Blake', that'd be awesome.  Infernal Pact with a certain arcade owner.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:02, Mon 27 Oct 2008.

Having second thoughts about dropping race aesthetics now that I've had some feedback (and in practice it makes character creation even harder for me 'cause I can't make up my mind.)  So for now I'll drop the whole idea and keep the "custom races upon request" deal.

However...  Expect me to bring in an "LOL I can do this because I'm the DM" character.  Namely Mittens being able to have a moogle with the ffxi "change job kupopopo!" magic.  So there.

Fine. But every time you change jobs with Mittens, God kills a kitten.

  While there is the facedesking aspect to the concept, I'm admittedly curious about some of the humorous implications...

  Any given me Char: So, earlier you were a Wizard, now you're switching from Paladin to Ranger?
  Moogle: Yup.
  Me:  Mid combat?
  Moogle: Yup.
  Me:  You're still wearing your plate mail.
  Moogle: eeer, yup.
  Me: But your stats are min/maxed for a Wizard.
  Moogle: Yup ;.;
  Me: I see no flaws with this ability at all.

  But yeah.  Every magical GM PC power use, Kitten Sniper kills God (Because the Kittens think it's time for payback).  http://www.jokerhut.com/wp-con...02/kitten_sniper.jpg
This message was last edited by the player at 20:31, Mon 27 Oct 2008.

  Double post, but whatever.

 So I'm editing my post to try and fix it up for how Blake would have realistically done things, regarding how reality suddenly altered itself regarding paperwork with Grall's half done post in a Tab.  I'm all set to put up the new stuff, when I hit refresh to check...

  And now I need to make a shorter starting post on how Blake passes the city by, because required community service to enter a place is for morons.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:21, Tue 28 Oct 2008.

Required for extended residency, I.E. your mailing address is in Unity, not in Detroit.  (needed an excuse for total strangers to go out and attack things together)  Merchants, tourists, etc. do not have said requirement for temporary residency.  Grall assumed the leather armor wearing people in the immigration office were applying for extended residency.

Mandatory community service is one of my pet peeves.  You pay taxes to support prison populations.  Let them pick up litter.  Don't force highschoolers to start their prison careers early by requiring community service for graduation!
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:45, Tue 28 Oct 2008.

  It's more the fact it exists, period.  Blake would probably 'eh, why not?' gone along with random shenanigans for the hell of it if just normal asked or hired.

  But the 'oh by the way you need too...' stuff that's significant, should be known stuff that is tossed in your face too late after the fact, on top of 'required services' being part of that for anyone is not exactly funtimes.

  It's not a good sign when the space zombies that decapitation doesn't kill you've been fighting through the night don't feel as big an issue in comparison.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:45, Tue 28 Oct 2008.

After meeting Grall... I can see why most Githyanki are Xenophobic.

I could just remove the whole thing if it bothers you that much.

Or the permanent residency application includes the very likely option of opting to pay a processing fee.  Or to word in a more likely way, if you opt for the community service option, required application fee is waived.  Even minus plane ticket, Tim had to pay hefty fees to travel overseas.

Heh... yeah.  He's not a subtle one.  :)
This message was last edited by the GM at 04:56, Tue 28 Oct 2008.

Grall's lack of subtlety and his comments about the Githyanki are what I was referring to. Plus his attitude isn't somethign Gilant is going to approve of.

  Time for my brain to play catchup with the latest revealed details again.  You holdin up alright Blake?

  “This looked more fun in Bill and Ted!”

  Good man.  I’ll go with the current situation to save time and hassle, and spring for the ‘service = free’ thing.  Which can be a tempting prospect when you only have two Gp, and knew about ahead of time from the wacky shenaniganngs of IC timeline.

  That and I’ve reminded myself you’re sane (well, so far as we go around here), and trying to do things interesting style as opposed to ‘lets play havoc with the PC’s’ style that seems to turn up elsewhere.
This message was last edited by the player at 05:13, Tue 28 Oct 2008.

Yays!  ^.^  (Grall's post tweaked to reflect change from "required" to "optional.")

For Grall's personality, it was inspired by the orc song "where there's a whip, there's a will."  I'm aiming for a drill-sergeant personality.  He's got training in intimidation and diplomacy.  The one for subordinates, the other for superior officers, but both rooted in "charisma."  I figured him to be a metaphor for a minority frustrated with lingering inequality in a society that a few generations ago would kill his kind on sight.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:26, Tue 28 Oct 2008.

Oh and if your wondering, Gilant isn't threatening grall at all, just warning him that he doesn't know half as much about Githyanki as he thinks he knows from the myths.

That and saying in a less than obvious way, 'work on improving your sales pitch in a tactful manner'.

Methinks Gilant's point was well made.  :)

BTW apologies to Joe for double post...  Was taking liberties with my new NPC in an attempt to get the ball rolling.  In any case, done posting for 2night.  Lookin forward to this new team's dynamic.  ^.^

  Well when you're using multiple characters, you're gonna double post in a technicality inevitably.  Or in Tim's case... uh... I'm to lazy to count posting.

Added more flavor to Unity's description, including a regional benefit (that Tim created and I like) and law-enforcement info.  I realize this is ex-post-facto, so any character is welcome to take advantage of the new stuff as part of the storyline, which I had planned on making available eventually anyway.  So far, only Bridget has taken advantage of these options.  Grall didn't grow up in Unity, so no regional benefit for him.  However, he's fulfilled the requirements for citizenship and is in the process of becoming an official deputy.  Mittens isn't a full citizen of Unity yet, though she's fulfilled her residency requirements.  She works under the authority of the church of Tempus, and has loose ties with law enforcement.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:38, Wed 29 Oct 2008.

  *Eyes the official RG's Joe, Blake, and Elric have for comparison examples* Man Unity RG gets a crapload of stuff.  Considering that just about anything sentient can be a 'PC Race' in Unity (and the only skill +5 in the big list is vs thirst checks, not very common) that's enough to qualify for a crazy good RG all on it's own.

  But what I was mainly wondering about, is how Bridget got 1440 Gp worth of Magic gear, when even one of those costs more than starting cash, on top of them still having their starting cash.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:13, Wed 29 Oct 2008.

In reply to Joe Darkthorne (msg #126):

Yeah the RG seemed on the excessive side, but I decided to run with it so you'd have a chance to take pot-shots at the original version before I edit it.

As for the magic items:





To put it in modern terms:  The SWAT officer is issued the body armor, side arm, machine gun, helmet, etc valued in the thousands while the rest of the posse gets to bring what they already own.  If the raid is successful, members of the posse will have a good chance at being hired and having access to the armory.

I asked several times if Mittens was sure about that, but it was OKed, complete with something about intending to give you and Gilant opportunities to get plenty of magic items quickly. But I only threw in the +5 to checks on PC lore since that doesn't come up often. Though in retrospect, I forgot that includes Goblins and stuff. So I guess for purposes of specification, the races listed in the players handbook? Honestly... I have yet to see such a check occur at all and I've been playing DnD for a while now (Outside of the forum).

The +2 / add to skill list +add a language of choice is actually pretty normal RG, though. I saw three or so like that and one at least that had still more than that. If you think the +5 to learning about a Dwarf is too much when a dwarf will probably brag to you about his race anyway if you ask, then that can easily be cut out.

The money thing though, believe me... I was uneasy about it. But if the GM says "Go for it", then...? Anyway. You guys have fun chatting about it.

I allowed Bridget to have the gear as a plot device as described above.  I don't expect the players objecting to having the option to have the same either now or in the near future.  I don't want to give away too much, but yeah as Timo says, I can easily axe the magic items and hack the RG if need be.

  This is more one of the few times I don't try to go with IC logic over OOC mechanics.

  Rogues would have a crapload more cash.
  Wizards / Warlocks would have likely found a nice magical item or method more.
  Clerics would probably have been given something better than gift shop quality Holy symbol, considering their basically God's (take your pick) law enforcement.
  Rangers would probably have a much better version of or much better practice with their methods of choice.
  Warlords would, oh I don't know.  Have actual people to order that obey and follow them?

  Ect.  Everyone's starting characters, so they don't end up with all those significant benefits whatever methods or connections they've made, or crapload of levels due to it.  Joe would probably have been level 15 by now from how many zombies there are in Luskan and Re-killing em since he was 4 (lots of fire and no respect for the local scenery helps).
  And admittedly, 'Wheee!  I get things no Lv 1 starter char would be reasonably given the rest of the P-base doesn't get because of the plot!' stuff has never been a fun time subject for me.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:34, Wed 29 Oct 2008.

Agreed.  The PHB says to start with 100 gold.  Way too little.  The DMG says if you want to start at lvl 2, start with a lvl 3 magic item, a level 2, a level 1, and 320 gold.  This is the equivalent of 1,920 gold.  Using the same rule of thumb, you'd get 1,280 worth in gear and gold at lvl 1.  (Yes, I did the math.)  I plan to get every member of the team 1,920 gp worth of gear by level 2 or thereabouts, the difference is Bridget starts out with negative gp (thanks to posessing gear that doesn't belong to her) so she'll have to trade in her current magic items before she can upgrade.  By lvl 2 she'll be on the same playing field money-wise.

   Curse you math, why must you constantly befuddle me!  Let's just hope we can survive to level 2.  Shame Pact Blades start out at Lv 3 though... wait, Lv 2 person starting with lv 3 item?  My grasp of item logic, it is flattened like a coyote falling victim to ACME products!

  Commenting on the bloodthirsty methods of others while explaining you've never done so before yourself, yet people think you're the violent one?

  Seems I still got it.  Or rather Blake's caught it.  Poor bastard.

  "It doesn't mean it's not true though."

  Quiet you.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:46, Fri 31 Oct 2008.

Heh.

Some things just defy description, just like this picture...
http://ihasahotdog.files.wordp...ome-with-dignity.jpg

LOL!  Good thing I wasn't drinking milk or it'd be comin out my nose right now!

Old woman modeled after Roz from Monsters, Inc.

http://www.imdb.com/character/ch0004385/

Here's a vid they made to give the feeling of a back-stage tour of the movie.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdRSqJolznk

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Spoiler text: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)

Just kidding!  Found out that's a real animatronic in Disneyland!
Here's another:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMQsx-WRum8&NR=1
Singing Happy Birthday:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6apNU04dG8&NR=1

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This message was last edited by the GM at 02:23, Sat 01 Nov 2008.

A thought on rogue+paladin tactics:
A paladin uses divine challenge on an enemy it's adjacent to.  The rogue then moves into a flanking position and with a sly flourish fires a bolt from it's superior crossbow, provoking an attack of opportunity from the marked enemy.  If the rogue hits, foe would take 1d10+dex+cha+2d6 from the rogue, AND 3+cha from the paladin's divine challenge.  The opportunity attack would suffer a -2 from the divine challenge.

I think this could be a very good tactic given that the target could very possibly end up dead before it can even complete it's attack on the rogue, and divine challenge is intentionally being used as a weapon.  It would be a guaranteed kill against a minion.  Also, for attacks that do 2[W] damage or more, the superior crossbow is the most powerful weapon at a rogue's disposal that still counts for sneak attack.  Another benefit is that allies can now move freely past the enemy because it already used it's AoO this round.

Divine Challenge:
The wording isn't terribly clear on what it means to fail to engage the target.  Suppose a paladin were to kill a minion then challenge a second foe that's not within melee reach at the end of his turn.  I'd say that that wouldn't negate the challenge even though he didn't end adjacent to or attack the foe because it says "or challenge a different target."  Now suppose the marked foe decides not to engage the paladin on it's turn.  Again, the paladin must either engage the marked foe on his turn or challenge another foe.  The way it's worded, a paladin could bounce around a room like Daffy Duck, never attacking his marked targets, so long as he marked a new one every turn.  Somehow I don't think that's what the developers had in mind.  Nevertheless, for now it seems the only way a Paladin could lose his divine challenge for a turn is if he challenged the last foe in the room then ran away.

The trigger an AoO to trigger attacks and damage from marks is a viable but possibly risky tactic. Can't remember if those are immediate interrupts or immediate reactions, if they are interrupts then yes they could kill a creature prior to it getting off the AoO if it was already damaged enough.

If they are immediate reactions they would not negate the damage the creature does but still end up doing extra damage to the creature.

As far as defenders go, Paladins can do sick amounts of punishment to a mob, just look at certain justice for champions of order, they can weaken AND daze a single mob for the duration of an encounter, EVERY encounter (all they have to do is hit with an attack that is Str+4 which is easy to land if you have a good str score and continue to pump it) if they focus on it by keeping their mark on it as long as it is alive, which isn't hard and is utterly devastating on solo monsters, and no other defender can hose a mob like that.

As far how divine challenge works, if you mark a foe at the end of your turn the 'mark ends if you don't do 'this or that'', doesn't come into play till the actions during the next turn. However, if you mark a mob at the beginning of your turn and then ignore it, the mark will fade that turn. But the game doesn't penalize a paladin for defeating its marked foe with its standard action by denying them the chance to use their minor action that round to mark the next foe they intend to challenge.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:29, Sat 01 Nov 2008.

Heh... finally looked over Artificer. Stat-wise, it seems Gilant woulda been a nice choice for using as an Artificer since he's a Githyanki. In fact, of the currently playable races, they are the only ones with +2 to Con and Int. That +2 to innitiative helps them out there too since Artificers are a leader class. The +1 to Will goes along nicely with the +1 to Will that Artificer gives. And lastly, it's interesting how Githyanki have that telekinetic leap and Artificers have that "Jump" Artifice ability... coincidences? :)

While admittedly, Artificer isn't an official class yet and Swordmage fits a Githyanki just as much, I just thought I'd point out my observation. :)

Personally, I'd love to make an Artificer and a Barbarian here, but since those don't count as "official classes", I will have to do that for Tuesdays instead of here. At least until the Player's Handbook 2 and the Eberon Player's Handbook come out.

That said, I might even hold out playing Eli on this Forum since Artificer seems to fit him well too... though the abilities of Wizard are by far too cool to miss out on and still fit him. But with no sign of another Controller class yet, I suspect Wizard really is best for him for now. Either way, it's nice to finally have a way to play Eli without saying he's some demigod of smarts and yet still have him clearly way above the average guy in that department.

Finally, I wanted to run this by as a custom race and see what you guys think. Admittedly, it's directly based off of the pokemon Umbreon, but look past your distaste for pokemon and check out what I've got here:

+2 Con, +2 Cha. Size: Medium. Speed 6. Darkvision. Languages: Common, Primordial. +2 Insight, +2 Intimidate. Shadow Origin: Your ancestors were native to the Shadowfell, so you are considered a Shadow creature for purpose of effects that relate to creature origin. Poison Blood: +5 racial bonus to saving throws against poison. Spiteful Blood: You can use Spiteful Blood as an encounter power.



The RP idea behind the encounter power is that this is a race who has poisonous blood (Or in the case of the actual Umbreon, poisonous sweat). To show what I used as a template:

Most races have +2 to 2 different stats (Though Hobgoblin happens to have the Con and Cha that I'm applying here), speed 6 and two languages. I chose Primordial because of the Shadow origin; I figured Primordial was probably the closest thing to a common tongue in the Shadowfell due to it's origin (While Elven makes sense for someone of Fey origin, they don't give a Shadow origin alternative). Most races also have the +2 to two different skills. Drow have Darkvision. Elves have Fey origin, so I'm just changing the origin to be Shadow instead (Shadar-Kai technically have Shadow origin, but the race info in the BACK of the monster manual doesn't say so. Just like Gnomes technically have Fey origin). Dwarves have +5 bonus to save vs poison, so I just gave this race the same with a different name. Genasi Firesoul has a similar racial encounter power to the custom one I just made. Difference is mine's ongoing damage instead of normal damage. As an alternative to the encounter power, I was thinking this race could have the ability to make a poison to put in drinks / food using their blood (Or their sweat). Still thinking of a name for the race other than Umbreon, though I'd be fine using that name too. Any suggestions welcome. This is my first real attempt at making a custom race (Since Timothius is technically still a shifter).

Finally, I have a question... why buy an non-magic implement for a warlock? According to the rules, I can do anything my class allows me to do without an implement. So why are there even non-magic implements? They don't add anything and are not required, making them entirely cosmetic. Is it like the "Fine Clothing" in that it is purely for aesthetics?

Nonmagical implements only serve cosmetic uses, and yes githyanki make good shielding swordmages and good artificers that rely on con, they also make good infernal warlocks as again that is an int/com combo although since we don't know what the 3rd stat artificers could use when going for the other build can't guarantee that githyanki make good artificers of all times, but they do make good battle ones.

The racial encounter power seems plausible idea although I'd change it to be more like the drow or gensai damaging ones (The gensai fire reaction one would be a great base for this power) and just use the poison damage type, plus have the bonus to Con on the attack go up to +4 at lvl 11 and +6 at level 21, otherwise the ability would never hit at higher levels.

  I think the only reason for No-Magic implements (that I recall offhand anyways) is the perk they give wizards depending on what kind you choose.  Yay for +1 AC and incidental encounter bonus with Staff.  But yes, useless for Warlock without a +.

  As for the ENC power example, beyond wondering why a poison attack is reflex instead of fort(maybe its one of those game mechanics over style things), I can’t see how doing ongoing damage instead of straight damage is an even trade.  It’s first damage is 5, a decent damage automatically for a random race ENC attack, on top of however many more times the target fails their roll.

  Also, are there any cannon PC races that have Darkvision (That didn't start off as an enemy, as it seems they tossed out fancy sight to enemy races like candy, so of COURSE Drow get Dark to kill PC's better)?  Cause if so, I think I may be tempted to play one.  Everything else has lowlight or normal, and being able to see when nobody else is allowed to is a nice perk.

 In unrelated news, I think Doppelgangers are more badass than Drow.  Sure, they shapeshift.  But they don't need fancy poisons, vision,  magical gear, and a half dozen special abilities to get the job done.
This message was last edited by the player at 04:07, Sun 02 Nov 2008.

I agree ongoing 5 is way too much. I was thinking 1 or 2 ongoing damage to compensate. After all... in a 1d6 roll, you can do 1-6 damage and it's over. With ongoing, you do a max of 2 damage and if the guy saves the next turn, it's over. And even if he doesn't, he has another chance to save next turn, in which case, you've only done 4 damage. The guy would have to fail 3 saving throws (Which isn't too rare, but it is uncommon) and by then, the guy is likely dead anyway via other people's attacks.

As for not only why it's vs reflex, but also why I want ongoing so much is because the idea is the enemy has to dodge the poisonous blood that splashes on him. poisonous. You know... that thing that poisons you? I personally can not wrap my mind around a "poison" that does damage once. When you are poisoned, you continue to get worsened effects until you can cure it (Hence the saving throws) or until the effects die down from your immune system or some such. Both in real life an in every game I've seen besides DnD. Ever. Hence my saying I would even take a 1 ongoing dmg thing if need be. And for that one, most anyone with sanity and an obsession for plusses would sooner take the one time 1d6 than a 1 ongoing since it would literally take 6 failed saving throws in a row before it even begins exceeding the max damage of the 1d6. Of course, 2 seems balanced, but you guys tell me what you think.

Best I can figure, the average damage done by ongoing damage does about 2x the base damage given a foe lasts about 10 rounds after it's hit with ongoing damage.  5 ongoing damage does an average of 9.99 damage in 10 rounds, 4 ongoing damage does 7.99, and so on.  The average fire pulse damage at level one is about 7.5 given a Str mod of 4.  Very few target will last 10 rounds, and even if they did, 2.5 more average damage than firepulse once a blue moon is nothing to get excited about.

Drow gets dark vision, +2 to intimidate and stealth, a nice trance ability, and...  *Reads Drow encounter powers and falls over.*  O...K... After reading how incredibly awesome Drow is, I'll make the following ruling about this custom race:

Change it from "vs. reflex" to "vs. fort," add the plusses per tier that Elric suggested, and it's fine as written.  (I agree with Joe that it'd be less a factor of dodging the blood and more a factor of resisting it.)  Go ahead and throw in that you can use your blood as a poison component if you want.

Better idea IMO:  Take out the saving throw bit and add resist 5 poison and +1 to fort defense to take after the Gensai.  I'd remove the "only if you're bloodied" bit from the encounter power, and drop it from 5 ongoing to 4 ongoing.  I think you'll have more fun with it in the long run that way.

Sheesh.  Now I want to roll a Drow rogue.
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:13, Sun 02 Nov 2008.

There are also drow racial paragon and epic classes (The epic drow one is for a drow that is trying to seperate him/herself from the taint of her species) in Dragon 367 (One of the free issues of the magazine)

Ya Drow are popular, in part because of a character from a book series, Drizzt, who made rebellious (in that he was good and not evil) dark elf dual wielding scimitar rangers overdone as there has been tons of knockoffs.

I strongly suggest reading the article (Children of Darkness) as it gives a good understanding of drow society an stuch within 4th edition. Plus the Horizon Syndicate is a good way to deal with one or more Drow PC characters (as the party could be made of (junior or normal) members of the group.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:25, Sun 02 Nov 2008.

  So, does Blake have an opposites curse or something?  Cause most of what he attempts to say and do seems to he taken the opposite way.

  Comment on how killing purely for profit is for crazies, obviously he's a crazy who kills for profit.
  Comment on how he's not sure how well he'd do at such, obviously he's incredibly confident he can.
  Ask if he can ignore Grall, obviously this means he's ignoring someone else.

  Is there a pattern?  And if so, then use said pattern to determine what Blake actually did regarding the office lady's request.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:09, Tue 04 Nov 2008.

I was under the impression that Blake's not handing over his residency application (the two times he was invited to) was deliberate on his part.  Grall was easily distracted and assumed Blake would heed his warning that he'd be sent back to the immigration office for failing to present his papers.  Roz on the other hand, is filling that beurocratic "buck stops here" roll as my attempt to poke fun of the personality.

"You can't ignore me" Immediate Interrupt, Encounter:  Trigger - Adjacent creature makes a comment that provokes an authoritative reply of opportunity.  Effect:  Whether or not Roz was the target of the question, she can assert herself as being the one you should concern yourself with.

You needn't worry about this storyline quirk anymore I'm pushing to get to combat.

  I'd answer Grall's question, but there's a whole pile of legalities that are remaining in off screen limbo, so Blake can't exactly give them an accurate answer yet.

  He'll get to Grall's Q last.

I can't wait to get to the encounter!  Tim drew up a great map for us, and I'm thinking of applying a new idea that I'm hoping will spice things up:  "fog of war."  Idea is that you will only be able to see that part of the map you've explored.  This is a feature that's hard to implement in the tabletop games, but I think it's do-able here.

If I'm not the only one who'd rather skip to the action I will post the following IC asap:

Narrator:
Once all the formalities are out of the way, Bridgett leads the group to the woods outside the city walls.  On the way, she methodically familiarizes herself with each members offensive and defensive capabilities.  She follows the directions she was given in her intelligence report to the place suspected to be the lair of the bandits.  The occupants didn't do a very good job covering their tracks, and clues point to an outcropping of rock as the entrance.  There are several felled bushes (indicated in dark green on the map) blocking the entrance to a cave.

Addition to the contract: Deputies and their hired help are under strict orders to apprehend criminals without killing them.  They are expected to use the minimum necessary force when enforcing law.

(We've got team members who have the same first initial, so I indicated Grall with a red Gr and Mittens with a blue M.)
http://spreadsheets.google.com...GO9l1BM0Og&hl=en
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:29, Thu 06 Nov 2008.

[21:53] Mittens 8D: shall we assert that joe worked on the north corner's trigger while timothius and gale oblivious to his activation did the edge?
[21:54] Mittens 8D: (all i'd have 2 fix is what i've already fixed)
[21:54] Section Z tm aka Joe Darkthorne: works for me. Gets the job both done, and with less effort from Joe

[21:58] Section Z tm aka Joe Darkthorne: Yeah.  For the lighting order Joe has no inclinations.  He just wanted to make sure all availble torches were around.
[22:00] Mittens 8D: ok so "joe pulls all unpulled levers first?"
[22:01] Section Z tm aka Joe Darkthorne: That aren't being dealt with by others, yeah.  My post was 'pull all untrigged torch levels' deal.  Tim and Gale are making that easier for him to accomplish

all 6 torches (indicated in yellow on the map) are now visible and unlit.  also darkened the trigger squares for a little more clarity.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:07, Thu 06 Nov 2008.

Chapter Zero, Mysterious Dungeon:
Elric suggested activating all 3 torches on the edges of the room at the same time, but Joe is standing near a corner.  Rather than double post Gale, I'll let Elric or Timothius point that out.

---

Chapter One, Unity:
I realize that from where they're standing, some members of the team can't see as much of the room as Mittens does.  Telepathic shared vision is a slight improvement in game play over omniscience?  Again, will have to rely on players refraining from meta gaming.  The room is larger than what Mittens can see, but I'm leaving those areas black that the forward member doesn't have line of sight to.
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:42, Fri 07 Nov 2008.

  With Joe, That'd be more my forgetting to edit the map for the n'th time <.< Fixed.

  As for Blake, I'm not regretting his +0 initiative bonus considering it wouldn't have made a damn difference if he had even a +5, heh.

  Think you could toss a link to the Unity map in the link thread for future reference?  As for the map vision, it's either the way you have it, or you have to make separate maps for everyone to represent 'their' vision...

  And I find myself wondering at the near uselessness of an Everlasting Torch, considering it still has crap light range and you can't even burn things with it.  Toootaly worth 50 Gp instead of occasionally spending Sp's -.-  Why did I buy it again?  Even a Lantern is a ridiculous step up.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:03, Fri 07 Nov 2008.

Chapter Zero:
Since we're not in combat, we can continue the story without waiting for Timothius to post...  He's working a 12 hour shift followed by another 8 hour today, he probably won't post for a long while.  And considering that there's 3 other players in the team and 3 edges we could make some progress.

---

Chapter One:
Bridget's character sheet updated to reflect the removing of magic items.
This message was last edited by the GM at 13:11, Sat 08 Nov 2008.

Added the following to house rules.

DO NOT RE-ROLL
If you use the wrong name, wrong description, wrong modifier or w/e for your roll, do not re-roll.  Just point out what you did wrong in your post and correct it there.  Only exception is if you used the wrong dice.  Re-rolling is a relatively rare power that I'm not going to grant if you said "wolf 2" instead of "wolf 1."  (If you re-roll by mistake use the first roll.  The second roll will be stricken from all of Egypts monuments as if it never happened.)

2 rounds 2 crits...the odds are 400 to 1. I'm starting to wonder if your fudging the dice in the mobs favor.

Not only is that much more effort than it's worth complete with no incentive to do so, but this sort of thing happens in real rolls. We have a guy who for a full month straight, rolling real dice, didn't hit but one time out of all those encounters. And in one encounter, the DM happened to roll two crits in a roll. Being a storyteller and completionist, that DM would be devastated if the RP came to an end, especially that early. It happens.

Still, in real life you can always use different dice if you feel one set isn't working right.

But it is known that rpol's dice roller is very streaky and is a rather sucky dice roller due to that streakiness.

On EVERY Rpol game I've been on that uses dice, the dicebot is rather bad about being streaky and having long strings of high numbers or low numbers, especially when multiple roles are made close to each other.

Well that's annoying. Here's hoping our problems will be solved shortly.

This is why I've always hated using the dice roller in RPoL.

I fudged the dice once.  A peek at the DM's dice log:
13:35, Today: Gray Wolf rolled 16 using 1d20+2. wolf 3 grab vs. Gilant.
13:27, Today: Gray Wolf rolled 27 using 1d20+7. wolf 2 bite vs. Gilant.
13:16, Today: Gray Wolf rolled 16 using 1d20+7. wolf 1 bite attack vs. Mittens.
11:56, Today: Bridget rolled 13 using 1d20+7.
11:55, Today: Emerald rolled 21 using 1d20+7. Furious Smash - Attack.
11:49, Today: Emerald rolled 8 using 2d4+5. King's Castle - Damage.
11:47, Today: Emerald rolled 23 using 1d20+9. King's Castle.
22:59, Yesterday: Blake rolled 7 using 1d20+4. Blake To Hit.
22:07, Yesterday: Gilant rolled 9 using 1d20+7. Lit. C. 2nd Att vs Ref. Wolf 2 Will Suck.
22:06, Yesterday: Gilant rolled 8 using 1d10+7. Lightning Clash dmg to Wolf1. Will Suck.
22:04, Yesterday: Gilant rolled 26 using 1d20+10. Lightning Clash vs Wolf 1. Will Suck.
21:54, Yesterday: Grall rolled 25 using 1d20+7. furious smash vs. Wolf 1 Fort defense.
21:38, Yesterday: Grall rolled 4 using 1d6. inspiring word.
21:17, Yesterday: Mittens rolled 10 using 1d20+7. holy strike vs. Wolf 1.
20:48, Yesterday: Gray Wolf rolled 4 using 1d6+2. damage from bite attack.
20:46, Yesterday: Gray Wolf rolled 28 using 1d20+8. charge attack vs. Gilant.
20:46, Yesterday: Gray Wolf rolled 19 using 1d20+8. charge attack vs. Gilant.
20:40, Yesterday: Mittens, on behalf of Emerald, rolled 10 using 1d6+7. sly flourish damage.
20:35, Yesterday: Mittens, on behalf of Emerald, rolled 16 using 1d20+8. readied sly flourish vs. Wolf 1.
11:16, Yesterday: Mittens, on behalf of Bridget, rolled 13 using 1d20+8. Initiative (includes warlord bonuses).
11:14, Yesterday: Mittens, on behalf of Blake, rolled 5 using 1d20+4. Initiative (includes warlord bonuses).
11:12, Yesterday: Mittens, on behalf of Emerald, rolled 22 using 1d20+9. Initiative (includes warlord bonuses).
11:10, Yesterday: Grall rolled 11 using 1d20+5. Initiative (includes warlord bonuses).
11:08, Yesterday: Mittens rolled 13 using 1d20+4. Initiative (includes warlord bonuses).
11:05, Yesterday: Mittens, on behalf of Gilant, rolled 15 using 1d20+4. Initiative.  Will suck.
11:03, Yesterday: Secret Roll: Gray Wolf rolled 16 using 1d20+5. wolf pack initiative.
22:40, Wed 05 Nov: Mittens rolled 8 using 1d20+2. looking for bush traps.  :p.
21:08, Mon 27 Oct: Secret Roll: (Fudged 1 roll) Grall rolled 15 using 1d20.

I forgot what that fudged roll was so I re-read his Mon 27 Oct post.  It was a knowledge check to see if he even knew what the heck a Githyanki was.  As DM, I don't need to fudge dice, but I fudged it that one time to see how the fudge option works, and because I wanted Gillant to have a little more RP material to play with.

I can understand frustration with with a broken dice roller, my Tuesday night players hate their store-bought dice and that's knowing it's pure bad luck not poor programming.  However, I don't believe that an excuse to accuse me of fudging the rolls against the players.  This after I bent over backwards to try and make the players have every advantage within the rules and then some.  That said, I'm only slightly offended.  (If someone accused Tim I'd be furious.)

I still plan to do everything in my power to make the game as enjoyable as possible for all the players.  As it is, the encounter is rated "below average difficulty" for a team of 4.  If I continue to get such strong negative feedback every time something goes less than ideal for the players, I'll take that to mean that I should make the enemies roll a 1 every time.  That or the boss fight will be a single lvl 1 rat who has cerebral palsy.

In DnD, until someone is KOed, I don't even start worrying. Even then, I only worry for the KOed individual. It's been my experience that a team as a whole can survive much worse even with two guys KOed and the main tank (Paladin) glued in place when up against ranged enemies.

Elric found an alternate dice roller:
http://rollr.appspot.com/

Anyone is welcome to use this alternate roller instead of the RPOL roller.  You can send the roll to c_fewell@hotmail.com as proof you're not making up rolls.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:25, Sun 09 Nov 2008.

I've seen bad dice and dicebots/rollers cause all sorts of havoc... the problem with dice is that if they get worn they aren't truly random anymore as I've seen a pair of dice that were rigged to always roll a combined total of 7 due to having edges and corners rounded off. (it was in a class a few years ago as part of a demonstration.)

Actually, I was being sarcastic about the die fudging...I had just figured it was a result of RPoL's streakiness as it has a pretty lousy random number generator.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:36, Sat 08 Nov 2008.

The speed of progress

It took a month to make it out of the first room of Chapter Zero.  I plan to award the team for a month's worth of effort, but my idea of an appropriate reward might not be the same as the players.  Before I make up my mind how much XP and gear to hand out, I'd like some feedback from the players how they'd like to progress.

1) How quickly would you like your character to become lvl 30?
2) At what rate would you like your character to gain gear/wealth?
3) Would you rather be awarded items of your own choosing or would you rather not know what you'll get?

Here's my answers:
1) I'd like my characters to advance about 1 level a week with some variation.  So I'd like to get to level 30 in about 30 weeks give or take a month.
2) I'd like my characters to gain enough gear/wealth to be able to afford a magic item equal to my level for every equipment slot - from head to feet.
3) I want to choose my weapon and armor.  The rest the DM can choose.  :P

Any other options you'd like to see?  For example, "So long as I can buy the items I'd like, just award my character with gold," or "All I care about is having a weapon that's at least 6 levels above my current level."
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:58, Sat 08 Nov 2008.

Hmm, interesting three questions

for the first one) I'd like to gain levels at a reasonable rate, but I don't want to shoot up so fast that it becomes absurd given what is accomplished

for the second and third question, definitely need enough gear/wealth to be appropriate for the level, and ya weapon/armor/neck would be things I'd like to pick, the rest as long as it is reasonable I don't mind (by reasonable, stuff that could be useful to the character, giving a warlock stuff that only a paladin can use is a bad idea).
This message was last edited by the player at 06:11, Sat 15 Nov 2008.

  Well, so much for me using anything but At-Will powers on my own.  Relying on ridiculous happenstance bonuses to have a chance in hell of not wasting things isn’t really a good outlook for me.  Listing the ‘To Hit’ default was pretty much the only thing that kept me from completely giving up on trying (and yet I've not used anything but At-Wills on my same to hit wins thus far anyway.  So much for taking advantage <.<).  Doesn’t matter what virtual or real dice are used.

 As for the progression Q’s.
1) Don’t really care.

2) Considering the universe seems to be based on your +’s, not your skill, having every single bit possible seems to be what’s expected to even live by default.  At least so far as being told along the lines of 'your AC is really 20 because you have something you can sometimes use and a day power' suggests.  I’d prefer to be able to manage with normal (As in, Normal, generic, no +'s off the shelf default gear and built in skills, shields don't count if you needed a feat for em) stuff, but I don’t see that happening -.- . +'s don't seem to be a bonus at all.  Like how CoX says Slots aren't needed to manage in the loading screen blurbs, but you'd be called insane and fail hard if you went along with it.
  A 'fine +3 sword' and a 'magical +3 sword' are still the same 'you are your gear, not your skill' end result.

3) Considering Blake pretty much NEEDS a Pact Blade (And Joe prefers Short swords, screw the dagger +1), would kinda want those.  The rest is mostly don’t care either way as Amulets still have their saving throw bonus regardless of what kind they are.  Though Blake is eyeing those 'Bracers of the Perfect Shot' <.<
  Though, if that 'Level Two character with a lv 3 and lv 1 item' comment from earlier is accurate,  Whee Pact Blade +1 (Lv 3) and Magic Amulet +1 (lv 1).
This message was last edited by the player at 09:03, Sun 09 Nov 2008.

When I compared the DMG's recommendations for making custom mundane monsters to the To-Hit progression of a min/max player, I noticed a gradual change in favor of monster's survival from level 1 to level 30.  And that's if you factor in the best possible magic gear within reason.  I don't know if I'd rather a game grant the feeling of more power over time than grant greater challenge.  What I do know is that I don't like how often whiffing happens at level 1 and to hear it only gets worse even after min-maxing made me hit the roof.

Timo pointed out that advanced powers and skills make up the difference, and we put it to the test.  He was right.  A team of 3 walked all over a lvl 30 encounter so badly it looked like we could have each soloed it without breaking a sweat.

I completely agree that one should be able to contribute well enough without magic gear.  Suppose a rouge stole all the paladin's gear while he was bathing?  He'd be effectively knocked down several levels even if he managed to scrounge up 100 gold to buy basic gear.  This is part of the reason why I offered that house rule of changing descriptions.  I'd love to allow players to call a generic "+3 magic short sword" a "finely crafted short sword" with the same properties.

I would rather there not be a To-Hit at all and just have double HP for PCs and monsters and roll damage.  But that's a job for a WotC competitor not me.  In the mean time, I'll try to work within the system to make the game as fun as possible.  Any ideas toward that end are more than welcome.

  I can see it now if for some crazy reason auto-hit became the standard.

  Mittens:  Okay guys, we made it to level 30 somehow.  Now, lets bring Orcus Dow*Dies*
  Blake:  I suppose this stuff happens when 'instant kill' attacks are auto-hit.

Heh. Joe, you read my mind.

Heh... Rick strongly disagrees with the getting rid of To-Hit, saying that would just turn the game into Rock'em Sock'em Robots and it'd only be a test of who does the most damage, with nobody testing actual skill. I don't disagree with you as strongly as Rick does, but I still think To Hit needs to be part of the game. That said, I agree about the "shouldn't have to rely on magic items so badly" thing. So I offer this advice...

Instead of saying you have a magic item, you could say you used the same amount of money to get a really nice sword like you suggested. Or you could say you used the same amount of money to get special training and you wield ANY sword with that special training's bonus (Obviously, you'd have to find the magic item equivalent, such as a magic sword that could be any sword). For example: Say I still want Sparky to be the bare-chested cherub with a vest that I always draw. I use the money that would otherwise buy armor, but as a tithe to Kord. In return, Kord gives me a +6 to my AC until the next time I pay my respects. I'm still bare-chested, but now am as tough as wearing armor. In other words, one could treat Magic Items as though they were Enhancements from CoX. Nothing says that RP-wise, your character is forced to rely on blessed objects.

On a side note, Rick suggested something that I think would relieve a lot of Seth and Will's stress: Save points. If you die, you "respawn" or revert back in time to the point you saved. Of course, you can't just save anywhere or that would essentially be a reroll every time you missed. But put a save point in towns and vualla! Now dying only means you start the dungeon over.

Now to answer the earlier questions...

1) How quickly would you like your character to become lvl 30?

I want to reach level 11 within 11 or so encounters. Maybe after that, we can slow things down and say we reach level 21 in the next 22 encounters (Totaling 33 encounters). But what else might work decently is to say "OK, you are now level 5. So there. It's a couple months later." The main thing I'm afraid of missing out on by skipping levels is posing something like "Hey Gilant. Remember that time in the Beholder Dungeon when we made that one Beholder poke his main eye? We can use the same trap on this Aboleth!" and while we employ old tactics with new spins, we get a small laugh out of old memories. Our higher levels just won't feel as high if we don't earn 'em, but I'm with you that I'd like to see it happen before I have grandkids (And I don't have kids yet).

2) At what rate would you like your character to gain gear/wealth?

Personally, I'd like to become rich as a lord by level 11 and rich as a king by level 21. Back in second edition, that was entirely possible (Though level 21 and any level higher were only available through a special expansion and such). That said, I think finding Magic Items should be a reward for completing a task such as a full dungeon. Bandits wouldn't just leave magic items laying around in every encounter room there is. More like, they would have a hoard and part of that hoard would be a magic item or three.

In short, the way the DM's guide says. +1, =1, and two -1's. But with additional wealth. Our pocket change should reflect our status as well-known individuals as we earn said title.

3) Would you rather be awarded items of your own choosing or would you rather not know what you'll get?

I'd like to see the rewards be random. But you can pull your DM weight and say "Avandra knows you bunch are meant for greatness, so she blessed you with finding magic items suited for you at an early level so you got a nice boost to your beginnings." or some such. What would be even nicer is if you gave us magic items that would be especially useful for an upcoming encounter. What would make me die a slow, painful, agonizing death is if we got awarded magic items that are only useful for the encounter we just earned them from.

I heavily disagree with the idea of getting rid of to-hit rolls, but I also have already suggested to Mittens about the concepts/alternate rules used in a 'low-magic' situation/setting which I've heard of from WotC's webpage and forums, although I can't remember where it came from on WotC's website as whether it was a suggestion in a post by a staff member or just a consensus of players wanting that type of system that the staff members thought was a good idea.

In that 'system' weapons/armors/neck slot items don't have an enchantment bonus, instead the players get them as 'innate enchantment' bonuses that always apply no matter what equipment they are using. (The bonuses would be +1 at lvl 2, +2 at lvl 6,+3 at level 11, +4 at lvl 16, +5 at lvl 21, and +6 at level 26. And these bonuses apply to defenses, attack rolls, damage rolls, and apply a standard 1d6/plus crit property, although 'magical weapons' can change the crit property to that of the 'magical weapon'.) As far as magical items they still exist, but with the lack of enchantment differences if two forms of an item are now identical, only the cheaper version exists, for armors with varying types of masterwork armor, those masterwork armor versions still exist and have their standard 'costs', as they are rare and expensive.
Frankly I'm rather surprised they also don't have masterwork weapons that have similar bonuses to how masterwork armors have as well. Some of which could be useful if their bonus was an increased proficiency bonus, or equivalent extra bonus for implements, to help cancel out the higher bonuses to defenses higher level mobs have to keep the hit/miss ratios the same.

With this system, if a person looses their 'super weapon/armor/neck-piece', they loose a bit of power, but aren't effectively knocked down several levels or more, as a +6 to hit bonus is the same as a difference in 12 levels when it comes to the level bonus to hit/defenses. Which is just way to huge a penalty for loosing a weapon/implement in my opinion.

And for rollr, yes you need to have a google account, but all you need to get one is any valid email address and to accepts browser cookies from www.google.com in order to have an account and login. it only takes a few seconds to get one not counting screen loading time.

  We are the beeeest party ever.
  Why?
  Because lesser parties would have died from all this by now.

Frustrated with rolr.  Can't figure out how to include the purpose of the roll in the log.  Also, the lack of 1d20+7 functionality is annoying.

So I tried https://hamete.org/dserver/joinlogdice  After setting my browser to accept it's lousy security certificate, it worked fine.  If you want to use this one, the email to use is c_fewell@hotmail.com and the password is dice.  Please include the character and purpose of the roll in either the subject of the message.  For example, grall fork attack vs dinner.  This is the one I'll be using from now on.  It allows you to enter the purpose of your roll, 1d20+7 and WORKS!
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:07, Mon 10 Nov 2008.

  I'm about to use Rollr for the first time... I'm lookin at the little window, and I see an 'advanced' button next to the 'simple' one on the top of the screen with all the little pictures of dice.  So I click it...

  Oh, I can do stuff like 1d20+7, etc still.  How nice :D... Dohs.

Edit time!: I are silly, as triple digits cant be possible.  I'll get this right -.o, as while the 'is this your roll?' confirm screen shows the + sign, the end results seem to be removing it, heh.  Turning 20+7 into 207, and (1d20)+7 into 'error'.  I'll just use basic math.

  Some people hate not being able to add in the +'s, others hate having to use security updated and password required methods.

  Further Edits, Whee. 14.  My attempts to copy paste the wrong link made it roll a fresh new 19 after that (Not gonna be using that for anything though).  It's treating me nice on accident -.o  Though will be usin RPOL for Damage, in order to use the 'different kinds of dice' for when I use Curse, sneak attack, whatever damage without having to give an even MORE links or emails or other insanity.

  Also, Reverie looks nice :D  But if Initiative was Int based instead of Dex based, Blake would be having a better outlook on life ;D And especially if you could 'curse until every enemy is cursed'.

  So Seth pointed out to me curses aren't single serving only like marks... I ARE SUPER INTELLIGENT!
This message was last edited by the player at 23:07, Mon 10 Nov 2008.

So you were able to get hamete.org to work... heh nice, so that is another option.

Emerald updated the skipped-over post.  Please be sure to read it.  :)

So a wolf gets an inspiring word, and Gilant doesn't? You'd think that allies would be healed before foes.

Huh? When did a wolf get inspiring word? I'm confused. Grall inspiring worded Mittens and Bridget inspiring worded Grall. Heal is a skill that I think Mittens used on a wolf, but I don't recall anyone using Inspiring Word on one.

Apparently, between Grall and Gilant having such similar names and such, I misposed giving Grall the heal that Gilant needed. I give up. Just tell me who to heal by race until I can keep those two apart.

Fixed the post.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:28, Wed 12 Nov 2008.

Don't feel bad.  I get the 2 mixed up in my head practically every post.  :P  I usually wind up editing each post half a dozen times and still miss stuff.

BTW.  A RL friend of mine and Tim's invited himself to join our little forum.  He says he'll be able to post every day, so I figured I'd give him a chance, but be warned...  He's a munchkin's munchkin.  Granted, I'm very much in the same category, but still...  he's a different kind of crazy...  Where I love to win a tough fight by the skin of my teeth with 1HP left, he delights in the idea of wiping out armies of gods with his level 1 character not even breaking a sweat.  If you've read Kitau's Journal, Shadowsoul and Cross are his characters.

Assuming he shows up regularly, I might just somewhat indulge his bloodthirst in a separate storyline.  Name it "Thunder Hill" or whatever.  I'll quarantine power-gaming to Thunder Hill.  I don't expect him to be interested in the tamer story lines of Chapter 0 or Chapter 1, but if he twists my arm to join them, he'll only be allowed to if he agrees to wear a straitjacket.

Given that I have yet to see anything in 4th edition that is seriously broken that hasn't been addressed by WotC already (like Cascading blades with rerolls allowing someone to one shot Orcus, and pray no high level warlords are around to interrupt the attack with a certain high level warlord power) the only way to try and super-munchkin in 4th edition is to fudge die rolls to start with 18's across the board. To which I'd flat out call not playing by the rules, unless you could legitimately show me the die roles for 6 18's in a row...which I'd still have a hard time believing.

As someone who finds amusement in how broken things can get (I thought pun-pun was a hilarious example of why 3.5 was messed up) this could be most amusing.

  My main concern here is more my alt phobia (But... I have two characters! Two! That's twice as many as one!), than the fact I regularly fail to survive in a Powergame setting, whether the style is intentional or just turned up.

  Can't see why not to give them a shot though.  Even with my usual tendencies I do try quirky things not outright disallowed by the rules... Buty I have an unfortunate tendency to see outright kill power or near invincibility allowed for others, while my attempts to do something 'crazy' like use a 5 KM ranged sound transmission power to, you know, transmit sound to originate at a location next to me without a ventriloquist skill paid for (they were fine with me doing a lethal heart attack scale intimidate across the whole 5 KM range though -.o)
This message was last edited by the player at 22:31, Wed 12 Nov 2008.

Joe will never let that place go.  No worries about alt-phobia.  I was pleasantly surprised you joined Chapter 1... and with a not-Joe character!  :)  Thunder Hill is optional.  Couldn't be more optional.  Tim could solo the place with his army of alts, so no worries about the team being 2 small with 3 players.  :P

No plans to allow six 18s.  I suppose I could allow dice rolled stats now that we have a usable dice roller, but meh.  I like method 2.  I'll talk it over with Tim and Cross.

I still think using the point buy is better than rolled stats, although if you want to you can always allow a higher number than 22 as point buy (i.e. roll up stats and then convert it to point buy equivalent total and let people run with that.)

Personally I'm content with stick with the 22pt buy as it's easier to deal with keeping things 'legal' as I can easily build characters of levels 1-3 using the beta character builder with my DDI access.

  Point buy good.  Dice style tends to pretty much force you to take negative numbers unless your blatantly better than the other players -.-  And I've already gone over my opinion on characters starting off the same as other characters.

after much deliberation, david onslaught has been invited to the forum and given a brand new straitjacket.  ;)  there will not be a third storyline/chapter "thunder hill."  once D.O.'s method 2 char sheet has been approved, i'll have him pose in to chapter 1 - unity.

also - he offered to fill any untaken rolls...  i suggested striker.  he was a little disappointed that warlock was taken.  he's already tried ranger, so perhaps he'll be playing rogue.  thoughts?
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:40, Thu 13 Nov 2008.

  Well, if we're wanting to avoid class clones as not being Warlock cause Blake is one suggests, (which has already turned up with the Warlords), why would Rouge be any different?

  If they don't want to be a Ranger or something they already were (such as Wizard), that leaves...  Cleric, or good heavens, a NORMAL Fighter without crazy magic powers along for their ride?

  I'll be out a Reese's cup if they pick Cleric, incidentally.  Bet my brother they wouldn't.  And I'll be out the second one if they use a Human, while I'll get me some KitKat bars (the leftover spoils of Halloween candy kids didn't get still last) if they pick a race with stat bonuses fitted to their class.
This message was last edited by the player at 06:38, Thu 13 Nov 2008.

It's not so much class clone wars as the fact 2 Warlocks REALLY don't work well together. "Hey! I cursed that guy!" "So? He's my curse now! HAHAHA" and the next thing you know, two Warlocks go at it, fighting each other. So Chris is considering eliminating the rule about "only one curse can exist on the target" so Dave can play Warlock since the point of a game is to have fun and that is what Dave would have fun playing.

I don't see why not, myself, so long as he says you can only have one curse at a time on the target PER WARLOCK... that way, you can't have anyone cursing the same target two or three times and get two or three times the benefit.

...and thanks about your comment concerning Rev, Joe. :)
This message was last edited by the player at 18:58, Thu 13 Nov 2008.

Tim would like to play warlock, and so would David, and so would I... maybe... eventually.  A tweak or two need to be made to allow more than one warlock to be on the same team without much frustration.

Not decided yet, but the following is the tiny tweaks I'm thinking of maybe implementing to phb page 131:
1) "If you damage a cursed enemy, you deal extra damage."  I'd this to mean, "If you damage an enemy cursed by yourself or an ally, you deal extra damage."

This way, if there's only 1 foe on the map, only the first Warlock to curse the foe will get the benefit from their specific pact's curse when it's dropped to zero hp, but both will be able to deal extra damage.

2) "Once per turn as a minor action, you can place a Warlock's curse on the enemy nearest to you that you can see."  Add: "Enemies cursed by allies do not count when determining which enemy is nearest."

This way, if the nearest foe has already been cursed by an ally the warlock can curse the next nearest foe that hasn't been cursed by their ally while still having the limitation of not being able to curse something that's further away than a foe already cursed by the warlock who's turn it is.

So for example, there's 5 foes and 2 warlocks all lined up in a narrow hallway.  Warlock 1 curses the nearest foe: Foe 1.  Warlock 2 can then curse Foe 2, but not Foe 3 or Foe 1.  Warlock 1 cannot curse any new targets.  However, he can deal extra damage to both.  In his turn he uses a blast 3 power that deals extra damage to Foe 1 and 2, but regular damage to Foe 3.  Foe 1 and 2 are defeated.  Warlock 1 gains the benefit of Foe 1 dropping to zero HP while Warlock 2 gains the benefit from Foe 2 dropping to zero HP.

Warlock 2 then uses a minor action to curse Foe 3.  Warlock 1 can only curse Foe 4.  He curses it, kills it, then uses a second minor action to curse Foe 5.  Warlock 2 cannot curse Foe 5, but kills foe 4 and 5, so both Warlocks gets their benefit... so forth.

Maybe add both rules, maybe add one, maybe have the player decide in combat which rule to apply.  Any thoughts?

A easier way to deal with the problem of Warlock curses it to simply remove the restriction of "only 1 curse per foe!" but I just know I'll get beaten to death by the by-the-books players for even suggesting it.  I'll probably get baseball batted for the tiny tweaks I suggested but oh well.  It's lame that multiple copies of practically any other class is fine for a team, but not warlock.

Well since curses don't have the same conflicting situations that marks do (as two marks on the same foe from different allies would mean stacking penalty issues as to who the mob doesn't get a penalty to hit, and if the penalty stacked a couple marks from say three defenders at once and a mob could have -6 to hit someone other than one of those three or -4 to hit any of the 3 defenders that marked it plus possibly secondary effects from those specific marks, which is pretty broken) I don't see a problem with a houserule to allow multiple warlocks and hunters to have the same target quarried/cursed. This also prevents people from trying to 'munchkin' having an allied warlock 'curse' his allies to deny enemy warlocks the ability to do so for extra damage during a fight. (Which in itself requires some rule bending of being able to target an ally with a curse in the first place.)

As it is being able to swap around marks is a useful tactic that Mittens and Gilant were using to keep all the wolves from being able to focus on someone.

The simplies rule would be that a foe can be cursed by multiple warlocks, but you only can do curse damage from foes you have placed your curse on, which means it is possible for the death of a mob to trigger the pact boon of several warlocks.

(And I am Considering a warlock as well.)

Then that's what I'll do.  Adding to house rules.

Another friend has decided to join as well.  (Bow Ranger btw.)  Which decides it for me - I'm starting a new team.  They will begin a combat encounter outside Unity at the opening of the scene.  We'll find out if they post often enough to join the existing group soon enough.
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:20, Fri 14 Nov 2008.

  Yeah.  This works for me.  Being able to use your mark, convenient.  It would have been excessive if Warlocks got to ditch the 'closest enemy' thing, as other mark types (Like Quarry) have that snag on top of only being able to have one enemy at a time.

  A different question comes to mind regarding Warlocks (and Wizards, Clerics, Paladins, etc) though.  What's the deal with implements and Symbols with our happy auto + situation?
  Wizards have the perks that come with their preferred Implement type, so they'd use them regardless.  And Blake will be using a Pact Blade, so that sidesteps the situation via 'weapons +'.  But do Implement/Symbol bonuses happen without even having the item?

  I was figuring something like 'you get auto +'s still, but you'll still need to wave around Pelor's shiny object or your orb to use it'...  Even if that means Blake will need to find some way to afford a wand at level 2 <.<
  Of course seeing how there are so many options for fancy symbols/implements with extras, people would probably wielding em anyways eventually even if they didn’t need to.

  Also, would this be another ranger on top of David?  Either way, welcome aboard.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:59, Fri 14 Nov 2008.

For example.  If lvl 2 Joe happens to be attacked by an alligator while bathing, his fist To-Hit will be dex(3) + 1/2 level (1) + fist proficiency (0) + magical weapon/implement enhancement bonus (1) = 5.  If he picks up a level 1 dagger of stabbing that will add +4 total to his To-Hit.  If he picks up an omg lvl 30 magical dagger of ludicrous ouch, it will add the same +4 to his To-Hit.

In the same way, if lvl 2 Gale gets attacked, her To-Hit will not change if she picks up a magical orb of any level because the enhancement bonus is innate.  However, in the same way a thief must be using one of 3 specific weapons to use sneak attack, she would have to be wielding a magic orb to take advantage of the orb wizard feature.  Warlocks gain only properties and powers outlined in the implement itself for using one 'cause they don't have a special implement class feature.

David decided against ranger because we're allowing multi-curse on 1 target.  His char's name is Lana Shihoin.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:32, Fri 14 Nov 2008.

Greetings all =P,

I just wanted to say hi and let everyone know that I would love to be joining you all in this awesome rpol. Mittens and timo your the best <3, much love brothers. btw thanks to my neighbors you all have the pleasure of me finnally being able to join back into the rpol world. free leeched-net is ftw my battle cry "LEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRROY JEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEKINS is ringing through my house as we i type weeeeeeee" =P

WRAAAA!  Welcome welcome!  Glad you could join us.  (Need to show you my treehugger T-shirt if I haven't already.)  LOL!  Tim told me about the Leroy Jenkins fig.  Too awesome.

Dave tells me Google docs doesn't work on your computer.  Wah.  I guess I'll just have to make an even more awesome spreadsheet that transforms it into forum code.  Plan 2 get on that soon as time allows.

BTW I hope you like the portrait Tim and I picked out for Julious.  :)
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:57, Sat 15 Nov 2008.

I'll make this short.  "You can't please everyone, so you may as well please yourself."

DMG pg 12 "Tips from the Pros"


Player: "I bull rush the scorpion off the edge of the cliff."  *Rolls dice and hits*
DM: "um... that totally blows the storyline.  hmm...  a magical wind blows the scorpion back on to the cliff."

or...

DM: "you find a suit of razor armor."
Player: "razor armor is scale only and no one in the team can use scale."
DM: "...it's the highly rare and prized magical razor chainmail.  So there."

I'm done bending over backwards to avoid this kind of thing.  I may reconsider my decision, but don't expect me to bend to the rules every time.  If the rules get in my way I'm kicking the rules' ass.

Added to the House Rules:

Biometric Security Feature For Magical Items
Unless the DM rules otherwise in a specific case, all magical items have the following property:  Magical items attune themselves to their owner.  If taken by from their owner by any means, they temporarily lose all their magic.  Until they are returned to their owner or the owner dies, they act as a mundane item.  The owner must willingly relinquish ownership of a magical item to a new owner for the new owner to be able to use it's magic.


Battle Standards (AV pg 179)

1) An enemy may only use a standard action to try to take down a Battle Standard when no one benefiting from the battle standard is sharing the same square as the Battle Standard. Furthermore this action will draw AoOs from adjacent individuals who are benefiting from the Battle Standard. Instead of doing damage on a hit with their AoO, an individual can choose to counter the removal of the battle standard thus preventing it from being taken down.

2)Battle Standards have a number of hit points equal to their level. When these hit points are depleted by damage that gets past their damage resist or successfully disabled by an enemy using a standard action, the zone vanishes and the Battle Standard is teleported back its owner's 'inventory' as a free action.

3) If the square a Battle Standard has been placed in is temporarily transformed into difficult terrain by a power, it is not effected, however if something causes a permanent change to the square (like a rock slide or some other result of a trap) then the Battle Standard's effect ends and it returns to its owner's 'inventory' as if it was disabled.

4) Placing a battle standard takes a minor action, not a standard action.

Weapon Focus
http://wizards.custhelp.com/cg...adp.php?p_faqid=1396

House rule: You can take weapon focus in a specific implement, Staff, rod, orb, etc., and deal extra damage when using an implement power with that implement.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:55, Sat 15 Nov 2008.

Added the following to the house rules since the new members may not know my top 2 online pet peeves:

1) No romance.
2) No cussing.

Not IC.  Not OOC.

I am not flexible on these.  I especially dislike sexual humor.

  While you may have meant 1) of the more extreme sort, my chars shall follow a strict 'no hugs' policy just in case then ;D

Moving in step

Not that I'm saying this would ever happen... just a worst-case scenario to illustrate the need for a team to move together.  Here's the map:
http://spreadsheets.google.com...3bxPD0pRT5B9z4J40LBg

A team of wounded adventurers are leaving a cave within a volcano.  They must cross a bridge over a river of lava to escape before the volcano erupts.  But a nasty boss monster orders his minions to cut the ropes that are holding the bridge up!

"Bwahaha!" he boasts, "My pet Wyverns are trained to snatch anyone who doesn't have an adjacent ally next to them and toss them into the river of lava!"

The best strategy is for the team to move together with the Paladin in the lead.  He readies his shield to run the gauntlet, taking the Attacks of Opportunity so his vulnerable team doesn't get hacked to pieces by the minions.  The initiative of the team is:
1) Two blade rangers, 2) Wizard, 3) Cleric, 4) Paladin

The team would ready a double move for when the Paladin moves, but the rules say that a readied action is an immediate interrupt - forcing them to run ahead of the Paladin and either get tossed into the lava by wyverns or cut to ribbons by minions.  If only they could move as one like they could in real life!

So... I'm adding the whole "move in step" idea.  The idea is that you ready your move action to trigger simultaneously with the team member of your choice.  Like the paladin who's running the gauntlet or the rogue who's scouting for traps.  Whenever your trigger moves, you move at exactly the same time.  This way we can avoid quirks like Emerald getting overwhelmed because she's the first in a room and there's no defenders to aid her.

In that example since the boss doesn't have an ally adjacent to him... shouldn't the Wyverns toss the boss himself and the southern most minion into the lava and since the party all has allies adjacent to each other (themselves) the Wyverns should leave them alone...?

  Just passin through at the moment, will post later tonight.

  But it would help to know what the stats for the Bandits Mittens is marking are in Unity, unless it's safe to assume they're the level 2 Human Bandits as the MM lists...  At least with those Blake and them each have a fifty fiftyish chance of hitting each other.  As opposed to 40(less with Dire)/..whatever broken math higher chance in Guard's favor, 100% ratio example is a bad choice when the numbers add up well past 100 <.<
This message was last edited by the player at 20:50, Mon 17 Nov 2008.

Hit a writer's block regarding chapter 0.  Will move the team to the next logical / safe location once I get this next room sorted out.

  *Looks in form looking up Fatalities list*  No prob.  It's not like you aren't paying attention to us elsewhere anyways.

Gilant - if you want to go ahead and roll your attacks against both guards assuming flanking on both that's fine.  I'm certain Emerald won't object to the tactic.  Kinda was planning on finish off G1 with Mittens, but if your roll would defeat it, would be kindof a waste to for her to go after a doomed foe simply over the technicalities of having to "delay" your attack till after Emerald shifts into position.

If Julious doesn't post today, I think DM should post for him. I will try to get in touch with Julious and Lana's players and jump on their backs like Yoda on Luke, forcing them to post via my computer since I'll be awake today anyway.

I recall the same thing happened on your forum.  They showed interest then stopped showing.  Even after telling them "one post a day minimum" I expected the new players to give a repeat performance here.  But out of courtesy I gave them a chance.  I even made a separate chapter for them so they could move at their own pace.  Chapter 1.5 will move as fast as they make it move and no faster.

If after a long while (I'm a month) they still haven't posted and the "old" players would like to continue Chapter 1.5 and/or move on with their characters, *eyes glow* all of the new player's posts will be stricken from all of Egypts monuments as if they had never been!  Pharaoh has spoken!  :p

Hey now mittens, I have a excuse cut me some slack... some people are lucky to have computers that work all the time... and if some people didnt have to work late shifts at a bullshit job then we wouldent have a problem now would we ;)

True.  True.  Hence my not posting Julious for you.  Looking forward to seeing your beastmaster re-work...  Hawk looked like an awesome option.  :)

May as well ask here on OOC: Is it permitted to have a background benefit in addition to a regional benefit? I can see that being somewhat abused, despite the benefits being frequently minor. For instance, if you have a background benefit that gives you a spare language and a regional benefit that does the same, you learn 2 spare languages, almost making the "linguist" feat obsolete. Almost. But you get the idea. Stack a pair of benefits and you could wind up with someone who has a stealth of 15 or even 17 at level 1... without being a gnome.

Not that I'd object. In fact, I'd LOVE to stack them (Not so much to squeeze benefits, but for RP purposes. Stuff like Eli would get Unity benefits since he grew up raised on their region's standards, but since he's also a noble, noble scion makes more than enough sense). There is nothing in the rules so far that says you can't have both, but I'm curious of everyone's opinion on the matter.

Until someone can point to where WotC forbids it in the official rules, having both is permitted by the DM.

  I was under the impression the regional benefits were background benefits for some reason.

Nope. The names are different for a reason:

Regional Benefits are benefits you get because of where you grew up.

Background Benefits are benefits you get because of what kind of person you are / what kind of background your character has.

For example, Reverie gets the Background Benefit: Traveling Missionary because she is on a mission to spread the good tidings of her goddess and tell the world about the good side of darkness. Which has nothing to do with where she came from and everything to do with where her heart wants to go.

If Reverie got a Regional Benefit, it wouldn't matter what her history or personality were, she would get the regional benefit simply for having grown up in that place.

Hope that clears it up. They are two very different things, despite their similarities in benefits.

Forgot to mention, anyone who wants to add new things to their characters as they become available may do so if they give an RP excuse for the change.  Example: Gale at level two changed more than one power to illusion type powers.  (Still deciding on what feats she should take.)  Her excuse: drinking from the magical fountain changed her memories.  (She never used fire burst, so easy enough to change that one - her allies had no idea she knew the spell.)  As far as she or anyone else knows, she never knew how to use fire burst.

Mittens will likely undergo a much more drastic change, but I kinda wunna work that into the plot.

  Blake will probably have more 4'th wall Arcane visions, while Joe will do... Something.

  Speakin of BG's, you do know Noble Scion gives a bonus to a new Knowledge skill you're adding to your existing class list, right Eli ;p
This message was last edited by the player at 01:03, Tue 25 Nov 2008.

LOL!  http://www.lfgcomic.com/page/137

Added to house rules:

Enchant Magic Item Ritual
Replace "you level or lower" with "any level."

Disenchant Magic Item Ritual
Add: To disenchant a magic item that is higher than your level, make an Arcana check.  Only those trained in Arcana can aid in the check.  The DC is "hard" for the item's level as described in the DMG update.  (For example, DC 33 for a level 29 item.)  If the check fails, you and those that aided will be hurt by the magical feedback that deals unresistable damage equal to twice the total Arcana check.  Even if successful, you and those who aided will be unable to make another attempt at disenchanting any item until after an extended rest.  Unique items such as the wand Orcus carries around cannot be disenchanted except as the DM indicates in specific cases.


silly level restrictions.  >.>  haven't decided yet, but i may make "disenchant item" even easier and only require an arcana check for unique items...  but for now at least a level 28 wizard won't be completely stumped by the prospect of disenchanting a lvl 28.0001 item when he'd yawn at disenchanting a lvl 28.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:54, Tue 25 Nov 2008.

Holding off on posting in 1.5 for Shale and Michael till a few more people have had a chance to post.

Apparently there may still be some confusion over the "no item enhancement bonus" house rule.  Perhaps an example will help clear things up.

Kitau:  level 1 fighter with linguist feat.  equipment: cloth armor.
 Fist To-Hit: 4(str) + 1 (one handed weapon bonus) = 5

Kitau defeats the rat and finds: short sword.
 Fist To-Hit: 4(str) + 1 (one handed weapon bonus) = 5
 Short Sword To-Hit: 4(str) + 1 (one handed weapon bonus) + 3 (short sword proficiency) = 8.

Kitau goes to the store and buys: Dragonslayer's Short Sword. (worth 4,200gp)
 Fist To-Hit: 4(str) + 1 (one handed weapon bonus) = 5
 Short Sword To-Hit: 4(str) + 1 (one handed weapon bonus) + 3 (short sword proficiency) = 8.
 Dragonslayer's Short Sword To-Hit: 4(str) + 1 (one handed weapon bonus) + 3 (short sword proficiency) + 0 (weapon enhancement bonus) = 8.


That's ZERO To-Hit bonus for using the 4,200 gp weapon.  Your damage remains the same.  Your critical does +1d8 per plus... namely ZERO.  So here's what happens at level 2...

Kitau reaches level 2 and learns how to pick locks with the skill training feat.
 Fist To-Hit: 4(str) + 1 (one handed weapon bonus) + 1 (1/2 level) + 1 (innate bonus) = 7
(damage does +1 innate bonues and critical does +1d6)
 Short Sword To-Hit: 4(str) + 1 (one handed weapon bonus) + 3 (short sword proficiency) + 1 (1/2 level) + 1 (innate bonus) = 10.
(damage does +1 innate bonues and critical does +1d6)
 Dragonslayer's Short Sword To-Hit: 4(str) + 1 (one handed weapon bonus) + 3 (short sword proficiency) + 1 (1/2 level) + 1 (innate bonus) = 10.
(damage does +1 innate bonues and critical does +1d8)

As you can see, there's still no difference in To-Hit for using a magical weapon.  Also, you get a total of +2 to all your attack rolls once you reach level 2.  +1 for the 1/2 level, and +1 for the innate bonus.  She also gains +2 to all her defenses for the same reason.  The house rules outline at what levels you gain more innate bonuses.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:40, Wed 26 Nov 2008.

  If there was anyone confused by it (I got the idea), it may have been the +0 you put on the latest ones giving the impression you don't get anything.  And at a glance without looking up the 'special' of the longsword, it can give the impression your not allowed to have more than +1 when using it.

  But, considering I knew how you meant things to work, I'm only guessing at how people may have taken it the wrong way.

The question was over whether a +0 item would grant any bonuses at lvl 2.  It doesn't.  Your attack bonus *does* go up, but it's not the item granting the bonus.  It's an innate bonus.  Not there at lvl 1.  There at lvl 2.  Using a lvl 30 weapon at lvl 1 grants +0 to-hit.  At level 2 it grants +0.  At level 30 it grants +0.  All attack bonuses are determined by your level as outlined in the house rules.

I beat this horse to death 'cause I don't wunna repeat the point later for the other players.  I described the magic items as +0 to emphasize the point that there will be no attack, damage, or critical bonuses for using the magic items instead of mundane items.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:48, Wed 26 Nov 2008.

  Eeer, some items have different crit bonus's than others.  Sometimes it's about the only difference between items.  I had figured the 'low magic' method gave players a default of +1d6 per 'plus' unless they have an item that does otherwise, as Low Magic gives players the abilities of plain Magic 'insert item here'.

  But removing the 'causes ongoing poison damage instead of pure Crit bonus' on say, Assassin's weapon removes half of what it does.

  A different question, unrelated to the to default hit/damage +bonus all stuff has, is items that have increases at specific levels for their perks.  Bracers of The Perfect Shot (PG 244) for example, start off with a +2 DMG to basic ranged at it's lowest point.  And then get another +2 at Lv 13, and LV 23.
  How exactly does the situation work with that sort of thing? I'm assuming that like PC's get their 'enhancement bonus' just because, they use the better bonus perks as their Level rises to match the requirement on that sort of thing  (An Adamantine Weapon meanwhile would get it's damage resistance ignoring upgrades alongside the enhancement +'s)

  You've yet to even look at that horse ;D
This message was last edited by the player at 23:46, Wed 26 Nov 2008.

  Hey, the Narrator is the one who said it could be done.  And Joe didn't even use a lockpick, let along the hacksaws, hammers, and numerous other misc items that make up a thieves kit :D

Good points.

First question: When I said "no critical bonus" in the above post, I was referring to using a magic weapon at level 1.  If by some miracle you got an assassin's dagger at level 1, it would not have a critical bonus of ongoing damage, only the daily power.  In fact, the dagger would not activate the ongoing critical damage until the player using it was at least level 6 because that's when the player would meet the minimum +2 innate (aka enhancement) bonus of the item.  Yes that removes 1/2 of what it does... but a level 5 or less character shouldn't have a lvl 8 item anyway under normal circumstances anyway.

Second question: For now, all magic items that do not have an enhancement bonus are handled the same way the WotC rules say.  If your lvl 30 char owns the lvl 3 bracers of perfect shot, that char gains +2 as normal.  If your lvl 1 char owns the lvl 23 bracers, that char gains the +6 as normal.  As for weapons and armor with enhancement bonuses getting "better" as the char levels... it's really just the character getting more skilled at using the same gear more effectively and tougher to hit through experience, but there's a limit...  You don't learn how to use your shoes more effectively.  :/  Dunno... may change this if there's any good suggestions.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:25, Thu 27 Nov 2008.

  The day power of Assassin's weapon is ALSO tiered to levels.  So using an Assassin's weapon would mean no crit bonus (if we had one by being at least level 2, but were not up to Item level), no alternative crit perk, and no day power by that working.  Leaving a completely mundane weapon.

  So, we can buy and make levels above our level.  But can't even use them at their lowest default settings, alongside whatever lower enhancement bonus we'd be packing instead Via PC.  Leaving... well, nothing but a big price tag for a then mundane item.

  Meanwhile, items we have qualified levels for, from your example with the Bracers of the perfect shot, do not go up with us (yet possibly have access to everything while being a lower level?).  This would mean that you STILL need to constantly rebuy duplicate magical gear to keep up, despite low magic setting being meant to bypass that as part of its gig.  Tiered incidental items would need replacements.  The Jousting shield would need to be replaced per item tier.  That Adamantine longsword's based off Enhancement bonus property will still only have a bonus of x2 +2 even if the PC level has a +6 enhancement bonus.  Basically anything that only has a straight property, and if a crit bonus, a +1d6.

  So, that big pile of items in the Unity thread.  If for some reason Team Unity ignored the 'you can't loot things or take stuff for yourself, or you fail' situation and used them themselves, they wouldn't get anything out of it as all of those items are above level 1.
  Particularly the Jousting Shield and Inescapable Longsword, as the former has a tiered power, and the latter has a 'based on your enhancement bonus' property, which would result in a wonderful cumulative to-hit bonus cap of +0.

  The 'you're PC has enhancement bonus themselves via levels' part is simple.  And the part most explained and repeatedly gone over (I'm curious who here is the one's missing that point still).  Everything else is the complicated part.  But figuring this stuff out will eventually get taken care of.  It's not like trying to figure out how things work is a bad thing worth anger over.

---

  The least complicated way of dealing with items (at least so far as I can figure it) that are above PC level.  Have items work as their lowest default, figuring effects based off enhancement bonus (for plain damage ones) separately to match the Low Magic +'s that have been explained in detail.  And then have the rest of the abilities catch up with the PC as they level up to match.

  Back to the assassin's weapon as an example.

Assassin's weapon details. (that matter here)
Lvl 8 +2 3,400 gp Lvl 23 +5 425,000 gp
Lvl 13 +3 17,000 gp Lvl 28 +6 2,125,000 gp
Lvl 18 +4 85,000 gp

Critical: Ongoing 5 poison damage (save ends)
Level 13: Ongoing 7 poison damage (save ends)
Level 18: Ongoing 10 poison damage (save ends)
Level 23: Ongoing 12 poison damage (save ends)
Level 28: Ongoing 15 poison damage (save ends)
Power (Daily ✦ Poison): Free Action. Use this power
you hit with this weapon. The target takes ongoing 5
poison damage and is slowed (save ends both).
Level 13 or 18: Ongoing 10 poison damage.
Level 23 or 28: Ongoing 15 poison damage.

  A Crit bonus doesn't exist until a weapon has a +, so at lv 1, it doesn't have one due to the Low magic situation with Enhancement bonus.  And Normally, an assassin weapon while starting at Lv 8, only has a +2 at that point while our settings give it to PC's at lv 6.
  Now, tossing the enhancement bonus situation off a bridge into the ignore it river for a moment.  But let's just in case say the guy who picked up one of these is level 3.  The weapon would function at it's lowest listed settings for it's wacky perks.
  Crit damage due to being a specially listed special ability (as opposed to per plus as usual) would upgrade once the PC was level 13, and each listed level after.
  The Day power would upgrade once the PC matched the listed levels as well.
  Easy on the brain, because by that point you've grown past the 'too low a level' situation, and are now only skipping multiple purchases of the weapon due to outgrowing the thing.

  Yes, the item's upgrades timing are slightly different than the Low Magic schedule for crits, and doubled up for Day. But it would add a whole extra headache if we had to calculate lv 8 items as 'technicaly level 6, because we already have a +2'.  And this could be the difference in fanciness between likewise tiered items.  A plain old magic dagger with no extras originally does get +'s faster than 'starting at level 3' Pact blade, after all.

  A simpler example.  Adamantine weapon.
  These also start at lv 8 with only a +2.
  It has a crit bonus of +1d10 per Enhancement plus.  Easy, match it to the character.
  It's property is x2 E bonus worth of ignoring damage resistance.  So if a character has a +3 enhancement bonus, the weapon does x2 +3.  It gets mildly complicated here, as it specifically lists per Enhancement bonus +.  Now, while a +1 char could possibly be considered x2 +1.  You are STILL paying for a lv 8 +2 item, which is why 'lowest weapon default' is an important factor.  And this is a property as opposed to a Crit Bonus.

  Super simple example.  Cloaked Weapon
  Starts at level 8.
  +1d6 crit bonus, same as char.  Nothing to think about there.
  Property:  Invisible to all but the one who possesses it.  It is invisible and you gain combat advantage with melee attacks until you hit, at which point it is visible again until it is sheathed for a short rest (5 minutes)
  This doesn't change.  Ever.  The only alteration is the Enhancement bonus, which is done via PC.  It will be as useful to a level 2 (lv 1 if you ignore crit bonus per plus) character as it does for a level 30.

  Figuring the situation of 'whats up with my crit bonus' is probably the most awkward part.  Pure damage would most simply be matched to your PC bonus, as it's just crit bonus as usual, with sometimes bigger dice.
  While wacky special abilities in place of, or alongside a crit bonus (damage dice of fire type isn't complicated) would tilt into properties land.

  (stops, walks back down before he reaches bedroom for n'th time to add yet another thing).  Of course, my outlook is also assuming people buy the cheapest version of items with multiple levels.  It opens a whole nother bag of 'oh sweet monkey on a pogo stick why!?' shenanigans if we consider paying for a lv 18 Assassin's weapon when at level 3.  And I don't want to think about that right now -.o
This message was last edited by the player at 11:10, Thu 27 Nov 2008.

We won't be buying level 18 items at level 3. They are level 18. We wouldn't be buying level 18 items at level 3 under the old rules. So that much is not a concern. For items that are no lower than 18, that stays the same... there is not level 17 or lower alternative for that item. For items that start at level 2 and become more powerful at level 18, well... they are more powerful at level 18, therefor you will not have the more powerful version until you buy it... at level 18 (Or a lower level if you are rich enough).

As far as all the tier stuff, there is nothing in Chris' house rules that suggest ignoring tiers. Only the enhancement bonus. I'm guessing that for properties or powers that say "Equal to this item's enhancement bonus", change it to "Equal to the character's tier bonus" which would be the same thing. Really, all Chris is doing is transferring the item pluses over to the characters' innate abilities. So since we're doing examples, here's how the Assassin's weapon would work:

Assassin's weapon:

Critical (Level 1): No bonus.
Level  2: Ongoing 5 poison damage (save ends)
Level 13: Ongoing 7 poison damage (save ends)
Level 18: Ongoing 10 poison damage (save ends)
Level 23: Ongoing 12 poison damage (save ends)
Level 28: Ongoing 15 poison damage (save ends)

Power (Daily ✦ Poison): Free Action. Use this power when
you hit with this weapon. The target takes ongoing 5
poison damage and is slowed (save ends both).
Level 13 or 18: Ongoing 10 poison damage.
Level 23 or 28: Ongoing 15 poison damage.

Notice the only change is how the critical worked? That's because it's the only change Chris mentioned. The daily power is not reliant on critical hits. And Chris never mentions tier as being a problem. All that is gone entirely is the enhancement bonus. Now as far as buying a level 8 Assassin's weapon (It doesn't exist as a lower level) and then keeping it till the end, I think the way Chris is doing this (Correct me if I'm wrong, Chris) is it will only ever cost the level 8 amount and the item will upgrade itself accordingly. Balance issues come in when you notice later on just how stingy Chris is going to be with money rewards. So once you bought the level 8 Assassin's, you're set. I think. But I'm only speaking off what I think I understood to be the case.

....and as a side note, I'm waiting on Lana before I post Reverie and Eli. As usual, don't expect Chapter 1.5 to move all that fast. That said, when Chris gets around to reading this, I ask permission to be a co-admin so I can DM a chapter of my own. Color me addicted. ;)
This message was last edited by the player at 12:48, Thu 27 Nov 2008.

YAY!  I can't wait to join Timo's story!  :D

Item issue:  My head asplode.  More debate needed.  Ideas, Elric?

  'If your lvl 30 char owns the lvl 3 bracers of perfect shot, that char gains +2 as normal'

  That was the bit that made me think tier upgrades were being ignored, in the 'it doesn't raise, so you still have to buy it six times lol' sense, which would be the situation for the Assassin's weapons Day power under that comment.

  The two main things I was trying to hope for were
1)  Items never doing lower than their own packaged in default.  Holy avenger doesn't have anything lower than LV 25 +5.  So if you pretty much saved all your money in order to get one earlier, congratulations, you don't get what you paid for.
2)  Not needing to ReBuy items.  Because once you DO meet level requirements, according to the outlook given on tiered powers by Mittens, you're item that previously was useless because you couldn't use it, is now useless because it's too weak.

  With the current situation, a Level 13 Assassin's weapon wouldn't give anyone of a lower level that value.  And then it wouldn't give anyone above level 13 anything past the lv 13 abilities.  The latter is the default situation for normal style.  But normally a lv 13 item would give you it's perks, while right now the 'beneficial' Low Magic methods are actually punishing PC's.

  Beyond single level only, not having to do with PC abilities accessories like Darkvision Goggles or Horn of Blasting, it makes it so there is no practical purpose to the 'sounds good' situation of being able to buy or create magical gear above PC level.

  On top of making the 'incredibly special' occasions of just finding gear above your level WORSE, because you can not use it.  Like the Inescapable Long Sword, To a level 1 character, it's only a mundane longsword due to it's magical to-hit bonus not being able to exceed the Enhancement bonus.  And 0 caps at 0.

  Can't blame the head asplode situation Mittens.  This is some crazy shenanigans to figure out.  If it had to be one or the other,  I'd rather have to still ReBuy my whole equipment set multiple times (what low magic is supposed to help avoid.  But to be fair, it does basically give you free sets of plain magic gear), while still having a level X item give level X benefits that you paid for.
This message was last edited by the player at 23:32, Thu 27 Nov 2008.

I think this shall be the new law of the land.  Rather than try and re-write the rules, and re-hash hundreds of magic items, and re-balance gold rewards to compensate...  Here's the house rule I'm thinking would be the easiest for me to implement while still keeping to the spirit of the old one:

"At certain levels, characters gain a minimum "enhancement" bonus for attacks, damage, and defenses even if using mundane gear.  (Or no gear at all)  At level two, the bonus is 1, +2 at lvl 6, etc...  If the character is using an item that grants an enhancement bonus that is greater than the character's minimum, such as using a +2 assassin's weapon at level 3, use the magic item's enhancement bonus as normal.  If the character is using an item that grants an enhancement bonus less than their minimum, such as that same dagger being used by a level 30 char, use the character's minimum enhancement bonus when rolling attacks, but not for determining weapon properties or powers.  Character minimum enhancement bonus does not apply to critical damage dice."

This way, a level 30 char is just as likely to hit the ancient dragon with a level 8 dragonslayer weapon as he is with a level 26 dragonslayer weapon, but the level 26 one will deal way more damage on a crit.  This way, no item mysteriously gains new powers over time, but they also don't become completely worthless if you outgrow it either.  Owning million dollar weapons will be nice, but optional rather than completely necessary to survival.

Level 30 team with 100gp of gear per person:  Kill dragon in 10 rounds.  Fall over, exhausted.
Level 30 team with 100,000,000,000 worth of gear:  Kill dragon in 7-8 rounds.  Well enough to smile for the victory photo.

EDIT: I'm going with this rule instead of the old house rule until we come up with a better system.  This means that the chapter 1 loot will not be +0 items but +1.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:05, Fri 28 Nov 2008.

I don't get it.  HUH?

Who are we waiting on for the various chapters?

Allowing Noble Scion bonus to be applied to any one knowledge skill.  It's silly to allow a class not normally connected with arcana the right to potentially have a higher base skill check in arcana than a wiz or warlock just because the way the rules are written are quirky.

  Not to mention the insanity that is how, since a Wizard has every Knowledge skill on their Class list anyways, it's the only BG that can literally be completely useless -.o
This message was last edited by the player at 01:49, Mon 01 Dec 2008.

Heh ,the wording on that background trait was always a bit strange when compared to all the other add a skill to your class list and gain a bonus with it backgrounds.

Also I'll get around to posting Shale and Michael tomorrow, been having internet trouble (packet loss and webpages timing out randomly) since getting back to campus as I suspect IT was working on the campus network during the Thanksgiving break and didn't get everything finished in time.

A note on lighting in dark places:

In general, I've been indicating light levels in dungeons thusly:

White square: source of bright light.
Off-White square: bright light near the source.
Light gray square: bright light not so near the source.
Grey square: dim light near the edge of the bright light.
Dim Grey square: dim light at the far end of the light source's reach.
Dark Grey and Dark Blue: Total darkness.

I went with that many tones for purely aesthetic reasons.  If it's confusing, I can make it simpler and just use 1 color for bright, 1 for low, and 1 for none.

(In real life, light doesn't dim in near as short a distance as it does in D&D, but oh well.  It's just a game.)
This message was last edited by the GM at 07:11, Wed 03 Dec 2008.

Not that I haven't done a one-on-one RP before, but if anyone's interested in joining Chapter 2, I'd really like to have you guys there. Feel free to claim you were one of the people at the meeting with the mayor or not as the RP goes along. On a side note, Hart's player of SfH is interested in joining DnD and bringing a friend along. Whether he meant the forum or just keeping it table-top, I'm unsure so far. But here's hoping.

  Well, made me a fighter.  Of course, in my creation process I picked up, then discarded 'Tide of Iron', because it requires you to use a shield -.o
  So Two Handed ouchmaker T'Shock may want to edit that power.

  And if I were to edit the Lighting colors, I'd just make it a single shade of Dim. The single shade of total darkness like you have.  As well as making a single shade for the bright light surrounding the source.  That separate shade in the source itself makes sense to me.
  so that'd be three colors plus the source.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:11, Thu 04 Dec 2008.

Well the main reason I'm not making a character for that group is the double background 'bonus', as I don't see a point in one region having a benefit of pick any two regions and get both benefits.

You're confusing background benefit with Region Benefit. It's not "pick two regions", it's "Pick two backgrounds". For instance, you were raised by a blacksmith, but you also happen to be a scorned noble. Entirely possible. The point being that Sunshine Villa allows you to have a background benefit from who raised you and one from who you are innately.

  The shorter version.  Sunshine Regional = Two different BG's from Dragon 366.
  Technically the same kind of result, as it is still two of the same kind you have in use.  But still only one 'region'.

  The way of the self narrative is a pattern that can lead to awesome, or the confusion of those around you.

  Causing both at the same time seems to be a result I default towards myself.

Skipping Mittens' post.

  El Edit: Oh, duh.  The light brown is the difficult terrain.  I really should notice these things faster, as I wouldn't have used Two move actions to 'see past' the trees in the Joe post <.<
This message was last edited by the player at 01:27, Tue 09 Dec 2008.

  Alternately, Blake could just put his torch away.  Lets go with that for now.

  Edit: I recal in my dusty never used 2nd edition books, there was a 'hooded lantern' that had shutters on the sides, and a 'lantern I don't remember the name of' that did indeed work like a flashlight.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:52, Fri 12 Dec 2008.

edited Emerald's post as per Gilant's OOC suggestion he gave me via IM. Since we get both a surprise round and a normal round, Emmy was technically able to fire one more shot. Problem being the dice roller. It won't load. Says some junk about Error self-signed or something. It's everyone else's turn from what I can tell.

  I was figuring to have the melee people move in front of Blake, what with that being how it usually goes and Blake not having safety yoink privileges.  Don't want to end up placing myself in a spot inconvenient for those who can't just blast what they look at.

Well for now, just sticking with Grall's plan of luring the enemy and then "trapping" them.

Updated Eli's character sheet via Cast so it now has a pic of him.

posted a link to the dice roller in the Map thread for easy access.

Good grief!  It took all friggin morning to complete all the Unity posts!  >.<

Gilant and I discussed the best tactic for now would be to have Gilant shift east and attack, then Bridget shifts north and readies an attack, then Mittens attacks and shifts back.  I could fit a charge from Grall (followed by a retriet to make room for Bridget) between Gilant and Bridget's post...  Or I could use wolf pack tactics and have Mittens shift back an additional square and make a nice gauntlet for Jake to have to pass through to get to her:

Br Gr Gi
M       Jake

Jake could potentially take 2 attacks of opportunity and a readied attack from Bridget in his next turn if he chooses to chase Mittens.  In addition, if he takes the bait, he'll be set up to be flanked by Gilant on then next round.  In any case, the plan hinges on Gilant moving east first.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:36, Sat 10 Jan 2009.

With few exceptions from paragon class powers, once you charge, you can take no further actions during your turn. (But you can still take your immediate reaction/interrupt/AoOs during other's turns in the round.)

However if Gilant and Mittens end up flanking Jake, it also means that Gilant will be flanked by Jake and one of the other enemies so that is a bit risky.

Did Jake just drop mittens to unconcious with that crit given her previous dmg from the other attacks (as I thought some of them hit) or did I miss Bridgett using her minor action to use inspiring word on Mittens?

Also page 76 of the player's handbook clearly states that fighters can CHOOSE to place their mark, which means they can choose to not use it. And thus when dealing with the MC fighter feat marking ability again it is a choice. (You always have the choice to not place the mark no matter the type of mark or whatever gave you the ability to place the mark.)

Also What the hell happened to the plan of luring Jake into the group instead of mittens moving out so now Jake and B2 can flank mittens if b2 moves west 1 square?
This message was last edited by the player at 00:12, Mon 12 Jan 2009.

That's the rule I was looking for but couldn't find.  Is that in the FAQ online somewhere?  Either way, it would wind up a house rule so Gilant's aegis of shielding stands.



Oh yeah!  Forgot about them.  She took 8 damage so yes.  She's K.O.  At least she would have been if not for Gilant's aegis of shielding.  She's still standing for now.



Grall got aggressive is what happened.  ;p  And I'm sure he'll point out that surrounding the enemy was part of the plan too.  :)

---

Edit # 15,000,000:  I'm thinking it'd be a toss-up of whether Jake would have attacked Mittens or Gilant knowing the damage would have been significantly reduced by the aegis...  So if Gilant is willing, I'll flip a coin to see if Jake would have attacked him instead.  Nah.  Mits would rather take the hit anyway.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:44, Mon 12 Jan 2009.

  *Eyes Joe's position*  Still in the same 'one tile into the room' position I was last round.  But then, when is a sharp object armed Warforged ready to stab anything trying to kill you 'now that you've entered the room' a bad thing?

  lets see.  Three tiles disarmed... 61 tiles to go.  This could take a while, good thing he's not taking 10's.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:16, Tue 20 Jan 2009.

Well as far as Elric is concerned, the iron dogs are still in the room, and are aggressive... so there is no harm in trying to provide some protection for you while you work on disabling traps. As you move, Elric would move to keep trying to protect you by trying to stab anything that came after you before it hit you. Gotta love reach weapons...and I'm not even trying to go for a build that cheeses out your reach to go from reach 2 to like reach 4 or 5 (using various paragon paths and a couple magical items)...go go extendo spear.

As cool as Julius is (C'mon... his last name is TREEHUGGER!!) and as much as I enjoy his posts, it's clear he's never posting again. His addiction to WoW and total loss of interest in anything D&D has him thoroughly distracted from posting here. We'll be lucky if he posts Daemon on SfH ever again, much less Julius here. So I say Narrator finds an IC excuse for Julius to be excused. I miss playing Reverie, dagnabbit.

In reply to Timothius (msg #256):

I'll go with the "fade into the background" method of removing him and not bother having a dragon swoop out of the sky to snatch him away from the scene.  Just post like he isn't there, because, well, he isn't.  (DMG 14 lol)
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:09, Sat 31 Jan 2009.

It has come to my attention that Lana's player has also indicated they will not be posting any more.  I'll be posting Lana into the background.

  The quiet exit is best in my opinion.  Then again, I may be biased after in a diff game, players who politely gave notice they couldn't play anymore without making people wait forever had their chars removed via 'they died because they were thrown off the plane they were on into the middle of the ocean'.  <.<

  Aaaanyways.

  Read through the Mittens/Grall/Narrator/Enemy posts.  If healing perks were given by anyone other than mittens/grall, then this is way off.  I didnt even bother looking into Grall's surges... did they even get hit though/use powers that burn em? I was focusing on the word 'Mittens' in damage listings.

  There's a bit of uncertainty for how many surges Mittens would have used after the treasure guard fight.  1 surge would have filled mittens to 26/27.  Since mittens went to 2 after Jake's angry smashey instead of 1, they would have had to have taken that extra surge for that amazing single hp.
  27 – 8 (Rabble smashey)= 19.  19 - 17 (Jake angry smash) = 2.

  Going on the assumption Mittens went for the full HP refill option in order to have that knocked down to 2 result....  Mittens will have 2 heal surges left if she refills to 25/27 HP right now.

  There's a chance I'm off what with it being late and it not being my chars doing the healing, or my chars involved.  This sort of wacky stuff is why I use the RPOL scratchpad to keep track of my current vital stats... Which reminds me, I should put Jack's stuff into it before we hit our first battle.


  On the subject of short rest, since Blake didn't use any enc powers he's not taking one, so he gets to keep his whole amazing 1 temp HP.  Scratchpad is your friend.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:13, Fri 06 Feb 2009.

Double checked. My memory isn't failing me after all. Bridget used inspiring word, though admittedly, I didn't say who on. Though at the time I thought it was obvious. So yeah... Mittens isn't that bad off.

new updates for all the books are available:
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/updates

And here is an FAQ dealing with the updates:
http://www.wizards.com/default...x=dnd/drrep/20090209
Of note is that veteran's armor has been stripped of its 'power' to recharge a daily ability for an action point, so it can be exchanged for another armor of same or lower level, however since this armor is temporary till we get back to town that would be a good way to ICly swap it out as getting a reward for returning the armor, and till then I'll not use its power, but its property is still handy for the +1 to hit and defenses. (The FAQ says that it can be swapped for equivalent level armor due to how severe the chance is to the armor.)
Other changes have been made but I don't think any of them directly impact us, but I haven't read all the changes line by line yet.

  I'm somewhat tempted to just go 'screw the traps' in team Dungeon.  Whole. Room.  It's a tiny room, and in concept its pretty cool.  But game mechanics make it more of a hassle than... uh, well.  An insane deathtrap of a room?

  Oh dear, the crazy host is smarter than I thought.

Thanks for pointing out stuffs about Maverick. I fixed his initiative, passives perception and passive insight. As for your passive perception of 17 (Which is pretty good), it has a long way to go to beat Maverick's stealth. Keep in mind, that 15 stealth is a plus, not a total. I'd have to roll 2 or lower for you to spot him and since I'm taking 10, that's more like a 25 stealth. Kind of like your perception is a 17 because your perception skill is 7, but when you take 10, it becomes 17. :)

  Yeah, Maverick and Emerald make Joe's skill at his supposed job look questionable by comparison both sneak wise and stab wise.

  Although I'm admittedly interested in how to get Darkvision on a human like Maverick lists.  Jack would feel a bit silly making sure he had a good one handed (usually) weapon so he could actually hold a torch while fighting if he pulled that off though.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:17, Fri 13 Feb 2009.

ROFL! I totally missed that. Yeah, I have a "blank" character sheet I copy-paste and make new characters with... since most races have "Darkvision", well... you get the idea. Thanks for pointing out yet another mistake for me! Keep at it. Maybe one of these days I'll have his sheet done right, lol.

  Well my sheets tended to go through eight billion tiny edits over time.  So no shock there.  AS for most races having Darkvision, I suppose that's true seeing how most races outnumber the usual PC ones.

  As it's a combat situation, was waiting for the next 'Dogs do/don't do nada' bit before Joe's next amazing 'disarm single 4 out of a billion' post.  Should I just go ahead?

Chapter 1: Unity.  Tim and Gilant can post

Chapter 0: mysterious dungeon....  post away!
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:32, Wed 08 Apr 2009.

  I'll post in Mystery Dungeon as soon as I know where exactly Gale is.  Don't want to end up stopping where they are.  I'm also assuming Gale got lucky with not triggering some tiles as the yellow around the tree was rough terrain in order to get LoS.

  While I haven't personally looked through it much yet, whats the outlook on editing chars based on new rules/abilities that have turned up with the latest edition upgrade?
This message was last edited by the player at 02:45, Fri 10 Apr 2009.

It would be nice to be able to update characters with new feats that have been released... and with the hybrid character rules in the latest issue of Dragon Michael could easily be converted into a Hybrid Swordmage/Wizard if that article is allowed. For some reason WotC considered it a playtest article for content to be found in Player's handbook 3, but unlike the class playtest articles, hybrid classes are fully playable from levels 1 to 30 without being limited to less skill choices, or feat options, than other characters.

Oops!  Sorry forgot to place Gale back on the "board" as it were.  She succeeded an athletics check to jump over the un-disabled tile between the one to the east of Joe and the one she's currently standing in now.

Speaking of cardinal directions...  to make life easier, assume the top of the map is north.

Just for giggles, I may as well tell you the way the trap works.  Every round I pick 4 tiles to be active by rolling dice- one for each of the four sides of the room - this is the kerchink sound.  The rest will not activate if walked upon, which is why the Dogs have been getting around just fine (until now.)  Of course, if the dice pick one that Joe has disabled, then that tile remains untrapped.  Finding and disabling the control panel de-activates the entire trap permanently.  The panel requires a DC 5 perception to find if it's in bright light and in line of sight.  It requires a thievery check of 15 to disable...  (but since we're in combat no taking 10.)

"When you’re not in a rush, not being threatened or distracted
(when you’re outside an encounter), and when
you’re dealing with a mundane task, you can choose
to take 10. Instead of rolling a d20, determine your
skill check result as if you had rolled the average (10).
When you take 10, your result equals your skill modifiers
(including one-half your level) + 10. For mundane
tasks, taking 10 usually results in a success." PHB 179

No one has had bright light and line of sight on the panel yet.

As for the phb 2 yumminess and the Dragon Mag articles, playtest bits, etc...  By all means!  Heck, Gale is a playtest illusion wizard, so we've already crossed that border.  :p  I plan to update her to have implement mastery at the very least.

As ever, anything published by WotC is fair game.  And I don't think it fair that existing characters should have to wait till they level to take advantage of anything new.  I don't think it fair that existing characters are disallowed changing their stats if they made a mistake in character creation.  "Oh well.  I'll just make a new character with the exact same name and appearance.  They were twins separated at birth, or no...  alternate Earth version shows up!  Yeah."  Lame.  Players should not be forced into making lame plot reasons that their Wis is 1 instead of their Int because they didn't realize they'd need that Wis later on for a feat.  Worse yet, being forced to ditch the character and backstory.  I also find it lame that a brand new lvl 2 character would be waaaay richer than a lvl 1 who went through a dozen encounters.  So... any character tweaking of any kind is allowed at any time so long as it's within character creation rules.  Will add to house rules one of these days...  /rant_off
This message was last edited by the GM at 16:45, Fri 10 Apr 2009.

  Heh,  thus far I've only got Blake in mind for 'nowish' changes, one of them being what Seth so kindly pointed out to me.  Swappin out both his lv 1 Feats.

 Reapers Touch: Dragon 372  Heroic.  Eldritch Blast gains Melee Touch Range. May use as a Melee Basic as well as Ranged Basic (same hit/damage dice as ever).
  I believe it also works for various other classes arcane default single blasts (Magic missile for Wizards, for example)  But I don’t remember offhand how many and what it worked for.

  Weapon Expertise (PH2): +1 ToHit Feat Bonus per tier. Light Blades (Under the assumption it will amp Pact Blade Implement casting.  Or would Implement+ make it stab better?)

  When Team unity FINALLY hits Lv 2, I'm still tryin to decide between Melee Training to make all his proficient weapons Con for Melee basic for his Stab tendencies, or the +5 HP per tier one.
This message was last edited by the player at 09:47, Sat 11 Apr 2009.

I think warlock is a lucky class for that feat you're referring to...

PHB2 pg 185

PHB pg 235

If you were to take implement expertise for pact blades, all of your attacks except basic melee attack would gain the +1 to-hit.  (Since basic melee does not have the implement keyword.)  Swordmages not so lucky.  1/2 their powers are implement only, and the other half are weapon only.  My sword mage had to take both feats to get the to-hit bonus for all her powers.  If you're willing to spend the feat on weapon mastery to add +1 to your occasional basic melee, feel free... but seems to me like a waste.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:44, Sat 11 Apr 2009.

Paladins and Clerics (as well as some of the newer classes) also have a mix of implement and non-implement powers but it is possible to build a character of those classes that uses only either implement or weapon powers, but characters that use both like Elric would need both feats to get the bonus for all skills they have.

Still working on the revised Michael that is a Hybrid Swordmage/Wizard but with him I'm placing a theme restriction (that has no rule basis, just a character theme) of limiting him to the implement swordmage powers only.

  Yeah, I was considering our old pre-Implement specific assumptions I could benefit in both areas with the Weapons + Feat.  Not the case now.  However, while there is now a ToHit Implement feat, I'm STILL not seeing a +DMG equivalent for Implements.

  Melee training IS awesome though.  Int Blademaster was 'Use Int with ANY Melee weapon for Melee Basic', for Swordmage only.  Melee Training while limited to what proficient in, that would be what you use anyways.  On top of getting to pick any Stat you want.
  So Blake with a Melee basic for Con, would Stab/Punch/smack with a +4 Hit and Damage, as opposed to +0 Str, or +3 like Blademaster.  Nothing like a Warlock who can punch as hard as a Barbarian.

  Although, it would probably be better to put off a weapon/implement feat, until I actually HAD said implement/weapon.  So +5 HP it is along with the Melee Blasting.

Actually a lot of people are gripping about the Weapon/Implement Expertise feats as most people seem to feel they are a feat tax fix to the to hit scaling problem in the game.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1163090

Post 5 in that thread even points out that a developer has determined that everyone has those feats free (the wording in the 3rd paragraph of that post is that characters have the feats automatically) to avoid the feat tax it becomes. And even then it doesn't help attacks that lack weapon or implement like some racial and paragon path attacks.

Post 25 in that thread suggests giving the effect for heroic at lvl 5 (ie +1 to attacks), paragon at lvl 15 (+2 to attacks), and for epic at 25 (+3 to attacks). As it is these feats completely outclass several other feats and class features like Nimble Blade, Combat Superiority (Fighter), and Warforged Tactics (which Weapon Expertise at least stacks with) but since there have been over 300 posts in that thread it isn't a minor issue in my opinion, which is why I point it out here as most people feel the feat tax to fix the to hit issue frankly sucks.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:25, Sun 12 Apr 2009.

I agree.  Not to mention, magic users don't get to take advantage of things like the iron armbands of power, another +2 damage per swing that hack-and-slashers get to enjoy that mages don't.  But I digress.  I'm in favor of the "automatically get this feat" idea and will add that to the house rules if no one objects.

Proposed rule:
when figuring your added to-hit bonus from the standard "1/2 your level rounded down" bit, add +1 at levels 1-14, +2 at 15-24, +3 at 25+

or words to that effect.  no need to take several feats if you use several implements.

  Yay for free +'s, as this also ties in to my usual 'why are 80 +'s required to have a 50% chance to hit?' whineage <.<

  I'm still figuring to pick up Weapon Focus +1 Damage per tier Feat Bonus at some point later on various chars, but in Blake's and other Implementy types cases, don't see a 'new and improved!' feat for Implements in that area (at least in full books).

  As that version is only a few +'s to damage as opposed to Hit, on top of it being a Feat Bonus as opposed to straight bonus, I can see why nobody has bothered to talk about that one so much, heh.

Things have gotten crazy here in RL land...  Me with my new job and Tim with new job and... other people's issues.  So... expect posting to be slow for at least the next week.

Lana and Julious are now officially posted out.
This message was last edited by the GM at 02:04, Tue 14 Apr 2009.

  I figured the 'innate bonus' was instead of the feat even existing.  Not 'you have innate bonus, but can still pick of the feat for even MORE +'s, once again making it a 'must pick' even if there is a higher base.

More +'s for PC's to deal with the increasingly insane enemies is always a good thing, but still
This message was last edited by the player at 02:56, Tue 14 Apr 2009.

Yes.  It would be instead of the feat even existing... IF we decide to add that house rull.  I say we should.  Objections?

I'd post more, but I needs sleep.  Feel free to post before Gale on chap 0... or before I-forget-who's turn it is on chap 1.  Methinks road 2 unity is Michael's post.  G'nite.  zzzZZZ.

I don't have any objections about having the expertise feats be innate instead of a feat that can be taken.

I'm hesitating on posting as Michael till Arcane power comes out since with the Bard class being released as well as the option of being a Hybrid Swordmage/Wizard I'm trying to decide if something other than pure wizard suits Michael's background best.

  Was just short of having Blake simply try to open the door this post -.o.  Then I remembered fire solves many problems.
This message was last edited by the player at 20:41, Tue 14 Apr 2009.

Then it's decided.  Implement / Weapon mastery feats are now forbidden.  In their place is an innate to-hit bonus that kicks in at the appropriate levels.

Michael can post without any updating this "round..."  I can guarantee there won't be any combat or skill challenges until after the next narrator post.