The Fall of the Old Ones
Note: This entire story came from a discussion between Gav Thorp, C.L. Werner, and myself after going over material from Bill King and Rick Priestly

To start, the Chaos Gods are a single entity. This entity is never given a name, though sometimes referred to as The Beast, The Dark Entity, The Source of All Evil (no! Not your mother-in-law!), etc. Regardless of whether 40k or Fantasy, The Beast is insane by human standards, being composed of at least 4 sections that constantly war with one another.

The Old Ones were stranded on the Warhammer World as most are aware. The Paths of the Old Ones mentioned in Bill's Giantslayer. Bill once had written a small essay on the Paths that he had posted on his site when it once still existed (it has since been taken down, much to everyone's chagrin). Essentially, they are only paths in the sense that the pipes of a nuclear power plant would be considered a pathway for rats. What the elves did when they created their vortex was essentially make a giant hole in the main storage tank of said pipeline.

When the Old Ones came to the world, there were only two intelligent races: The Dragons and the Dragon Ogres. Naturally, these did not bother the Old Ones none too much and they went about creating various species. Each race they created had a special part in their escape from the Warhammer World. Dwarfs could smith, Elves could wield magic, the Slann were designed for the purpose of watching for encroaching Chaos and to be an overseer to the others, Halflings were great cooks who could resist the effects of Chaos, and Ogres made great laborers/fighters who could resist the effect of Chaos.

There is one species though, that was not born of The Old Ones. That would be humanity. We are a creature of Chaos. Chaos designed us to be the downfall of the Old Ones. The only way they could get past the Slann's mathematical detection were in subtle ways. Thus, we were not Intelligently Designed. Not at all. We were evolved! Brutal natural selection was our only guide.

As the Old Ones prepared to leave the world, humanity gave the Dark Entity (or the Chaos Gods as a whole depending how you look at it) a much needed boost in power. They prayed en mass near the North in what are now the Chaos Wastes (the crown found in Malekith). This gave Chaos the ability to sabotage the Chaos Gates and cast the Old Ones into the warp wyrd/Realms of Chaos.

However, the Chaos Gods did not have the power to destroy the Old Ones. The Gods of Order are the shattered, broken, twisted, and warped remnants of the Old Ones (see Temple of the Serpent prologue). The fragments form the various gods as aspects of the Old Ones congregate and coalesce. There is only one unifying theme: They hate the Chaos Gods. They found fertile grounds in humanity as well. The humans who weren't in the North (i.e. not either turned into beastmen or madmen) took up worship just as quickly as they did of the Chaos Gods (and, ironically, the nature of Chaos is to try and destroy itself). The souls of humans who die feed the remnants of the Old Ones and allow them to continue their blighted existence. Without worshipers dying horrifically painful deaths "in the name of <god X>" said gods would not exist or have any power to influence the world around them.

Grim World of Warhammer indeed.

Just about as grim as our own history if anything else.

Madness.

Quite interesting though

The Beastiary seems to make them out as both far more intelligent than the average Greenskin. Furthermore, it suggests a degree of co-operation between Humans and Hobgoblins in the wastes. To what extent do you think Hobgoblins would be able to co-operate in a human society, particularly as part of a mercenary outfit. Whilst I doubt the Empire or Brettonia, perhaps Kislev would bear the Greenskins? Norsca even? Tilea? The Badlands?

Let me know what you think!

There's also Cathay and the Ogre Kingdoms before you start on about Chaos Dwarfs and the various other forces of Chaos.

But that's the thing, the Hobgoblins aren't neccessarily servants of Chaos. Given that they tend to, when in contact with humans, work in the mercenary or scouting fields of work would it be plausable to find wee enclaves in certain cities?

Hobgoblins are so treacherous their spines are extra thick to tolerate inevitable backstabbing. The badlands would, for sure, tolerate them. Kislev is a definite no. The Kislevites barely tolerate Imperials :P. Norsca and Tilea perhaps.

I'm saying as mercenaries I doubt any nation would turn them away in the most dire of need except Brettonia which doesn't even accept human mercenaries.

There is only one Man ascended to God and that is Sigmar.

Mymidia was a god who became mortal and then became a god again when she was struck down.

The greatest trick Ranald ever pulled was convincing humanity he was once one of them (see how the Wood Elves have their own trickster god that predates "Ranald's ascension to godhood").

Interesting factoid. Not exactly news for anyone who owns Tome of Salvation

I've run into something in two seperate games I've played in but have never looked into why. It seems that any time I've encountered Skaven the "party line" is that they are Beastmen who look like rats. Where did this coverup stim from, and what is the purpose?

One of those games would be mine. It's a joke established early on by William King that stuck. As far as the Empire at large (and Bretonnia by extension) is concerned, Skaven do not exist. It is absolutely ludicrous and everything is beastmen. Basically, the Skaven decided to use their human agents to make anyone who said Skaven were real look ridiculous. This stuck and therefore people remain oblivious to them, think they're beastmen, or, in some cases, think that they're just misunderstood. Since dwarfs are the ones who primarily encounter them, its not hard for people to think they don't exist. They view light and open skies/plains the same way we view small caverns and darkness.

What Baron said=:)

I've also read that the few "in the know" people have also called Skaven Beastmen to prevent widespread panic.  Another massive and intelligent race conspiring to take over teh surface world is believed to be too much for the commoners to handle.

This is directly the reasoning from William King. After the events in Nuln, the Countess' aide makes it clear that no one can know that the Skaven are anything but ravenous beastmen.

I love it.

Good Morning,

Between the three editions, is there one that a majority of people tend to playing?
I've recently found my 2E book and got the bug to play

I tried 3rd and really did not like it.  I've been playing 2nd forever and love it! The system is much better IMHO and getting the books is easy and cheap these days.

2ed is amazing! RPOL needs more people running it though.

Got to agree with you there, love me some 2nd ed, though I wouldn't mind some freeform advancement options.

If any german speaking players are here there is a position in my long running german game that can be filled.

How good does would ones German have to be?

I am actually attempting to learn it and would love an opportunity to get better at it.

Thank you for all the advice, I am currently devouring my Old 2E book.

Question for the group...
I have / am confused how Class advancement works....
When you 1st start, you gain all the skill of your beginning career.
Here's my question:
I am a Woodsman attempting to become a Scout; do I level up my Woodsman skills or begin to purchase Scouts in order to enter the career?

You max woodsmen, then pay to advance careers. After that you can start buying the scout skills.

Thank you!

Anyone ever run across a "home-brew" or Warhammer Roleplay 2nd rules "lite", kind of an oxymoron but it would be nice for PbP.  Not 3rd "lite", which usually means not messing around with damned counters in a roleplay game!

I have looked around, and have not come across anything of the sorts.  If anyone is interested in working on a rules lite version, rmail or PM.  Good luck with all your games, and blessed be your die roller...

Anyone want to give RPOL an early birthday present? Not a lot of WFRP 2 games running right now.