I've just been looking through the DH book and can't find any mention of a points allocation system, but I did find one in the Deathwatch book on page 26.

I prefer to roll for characteristics. For me, it helps break the stereotype associated with all the classes. I mean, it can suck when you get a character who is all below the board, but then it encourages you to take those crazy backgrounds you wouldn't have tried with a different character concept. Say you wanted to play a Scum and in your mind, you want to have a dashing rogue who always has a quick witticism no matter the situation. Well, the dice give you a stat spread that doesn't really back that up. Luckily, there are enough backgrounds that, for the cost of some xp and a few points of insanity or corruption, you can tweak those scores. Now, you are playing a true villain who would cut his mother's throat for thrones... if he could remember what cathouse she worked at.

Some of my most enjoyable characters came from the twist of the dice, but I usually prefer roleplay to bug hunting, so I could understand where some of you guys can get frustrated.

Nor can I.

More power to you.  Personally, I tend to have a very strong idea of who any character is before I translate them into game mechanics.  That other character that emerges may be interesting, but its not who I want to play.  more-over, from a mechanical point of view there are certain kinds of characters I enjoy playing more than others (melee, for example, always bores me - I can't imagine bothering with a character I'd rolled low Ballistics for, but high Weapons).

I'm glad it appeals to someone, don't get me wrong.  WE're all entitled to play make-believe however we want, I think.  But I'm just as glad there is an alternative in place.

Well the deathwatch one will be the same as the DH one.

M4G1 I think you'd be best with the roll 8(i think there is 8 characteristics I may have forgotten) times then allocate.  This will allow you to make your super sniper but may also force you to make some characterful decisions if you roll the dread 2 or 3.  Is your super sniper really stupid as all he has been trained to do is snipe?  Or does he lack any personal skills due to spending large amounts of time alone stalking targets...

The problem I have with points allocation as a GM is that I tend to get characters that are all average at everything and very good at one or two things.  Rolling means you get some fun combinations, I know I once played a noble scum who was more a dashing roguish cad who believed he was something of a blade.  Which he was, he had very high weaponskill.  Unfortunately it seemed that duelling upperclass idiots meant he was skillful but rarely needed to employ brute strength as he had a pitifully low strength (rolled a 2 originally then rerolled to 4).  This often led to him engaging enemies in ridiculous bouts of swordplay where he would disarm them then spend ages essentially undressing them with his sword until the arbite came in and clubbed them into submission.

So it exists only in teh Deathwatch book?  Bloody space marines get _EVERYTHING_, LOL.  Mystery solved at least.  I don't rally plan on buying that one.  Soldiers (even "genetically engineered super--wariors", or whatever their atleast tagline is) sounds painfully boring to me, as a character concept.  I can probably find a copy of the game in PDF somewhere though.

And I appreciate that.  I just don't really care for those sorts of surprises.  Also, if I rolled above-average, I think I would feel like I were cheating, and if I rolled bellow what points would give I certainly would be miffed and fealing Cheated.  *le shrug*  Like I said - to each their own.

Of course, much depends on the game one joins, naturally... for which I'm still looking... *wink wink; nudge nudge*

Point Buy also exists in Rogue Trader, but is is 100 points to allocate amongst the 9 stats, plus the base (20-25 for DH, 25 for RT, and 30 for DW), with a max of 20 in a single stat.

Rolling for your stats is a time honored tradition. It used to be the standard way of doing things. Most current games have an optional point buy system these days.

An alternate solution for character generation that we use in my group is that we roll up one set of stats to be used by every player. They can put it in any order that they like. Biggest benefit is that every player is created equal and prevents players having terrible or awesome stats compared to the others.


About money:
All the 40k systems use a different money system that represents how the players get their gear.

DH Acolytes just need to buy everything themselves from their meager salary plus benefits. This changes once they Ascend and they are treated similar as RT's.

RT are so fantastically rich that expressing their wealth in thrones is a folly. They use the Acquisition system. Just check if you have enough resources available right now to buy that Power Armor you are drooling about.

Space Marines don't use money, they can ask the Quartermaster to give them the gear they need for the job. And after a successful mission the stuff goes back into the armory.

I have to admit, I want to know what the poster's experience with gaming is because I'd say a good 50% of games use random characteristics. And prior to 2000, I would have said that 95% of them did so. Even videogames use it on a regular basis with some consistency.

Either way, the average roll is 11 for some reason. Eight characteristics. Give them 92pts, +1-10=1per1, 11-20, +1.

Bob chooses to put 38 into WS. He spends 10pts getting to 30, then spends another 16pts to get to 38.

And more to the point, I take it there are no open DH games. Also really itching to try the system for the first time :(

I've been a roleplayer since the dawning days of Ultima Online actually, and I've never played a computer RPG, online or SP, that used random stat generation.

I'm a relative newcomer to old-fashioned, tabletop RPGs (relative in the sense that I found about DnD 2nd edition through people I met online in UO, rather than the other way 'round, which I've since gathered to have been more traditional that time - though I wonder if it still would be today given the explosion of online gaming).  I know that old editions of AD&D used to use dice-rolling methods for that game's "Ability Scores".  I even played 2nd edition once or twice, though even then, "home-brewed" points systems seemed to be the norm, at least at my high school.

That sort of thing, though, was dropped to the status of seldom-used optional rules several editions ago (and I can only assume that its only retained at all for nostalgic purposes since neither in real life, nor on PBP or PBIM websites, have I ever found a game that still uses them).  From D&D to the World of Darkness (old and new alike), to the wide handful of smaller P&P games I've tried (Witchcraft; Mutants and Masterminds; the Dresden Files; ECT), I know of no other ORPG currently in print that uses a random generation method for character statistics by default.  Until I was convinced by a friend to read this game, I had assumed it was one of those anachronisms of gaming like no-save death traps that was pretty dead except for the occasional fit of nostalgia from older gamers.  I don't know the exact market share numbers for the ORPG industry, but given the combined dominance of D&D, WoD products, and superhero games (none of which use random generation that I know of), I would lay real money against your claim that "50%" of them are still using stat-rolling as their default chargen methods, although there's no question that that would have been true at one time in the past.

*le shrug*  Perhaps I lack a certain rosy-goggled perspective on the history of gaming, from the 80s and early 90s,  and all that, being an MMO player first, and a tabletop Roleplayer second (if not third or fourth - I'm a big RTS and SPRPG fan too).  If I offend you with my ignorant youngster ways, then I apologize.  I just don't see any virtue in this particular mechanic, and given the direction the industry's headed on it, it seems that the majority of RPG consumers don't either.




The average roll is 11 because (2+20)/2 = 11.  Also, there are 9 statistics.

The point is well-taken though.  I didn't say it was hard to construct a point system for the game.  I only remarked, as you may remember, on my surprise, that not only was such a system not the default method of character generation but, in fact, no official one seemed to exist.  AS it turns out, I was wrong about that last part, as the people above have been kind enough to elaborate.



I want to say, before I go to bed, that I'm loving this conversation, but that if we're going to keep debating different character generating methods instead of advertising or starting games, then maybe we should move this to a different forum to continue?


Edit: Edited for clarity in responding.
This message was last edited by the player at 06:52, Thu 21 Oct 2010.

Bottom line is the rules are a framework, and everything is at the GMs discretion. Stat gen can be done via any method he/she chooses.

Well, yes.  I think we're mostly debating preferences.  Or explaining our respective ones, if you like.  Ultimately, its to negotiate with any particular GM what sorts of characters and character creation methods their prepared to accept, and decide whether you can live with their decision, or not.

To be honest I have never met any GMs who would not let you use the points system.  I'm sure some exist though.  If your desperate for a game you could try running one yourself...

That thoughts' actually occured to me.  If I had same experience wiht the system, I might at least try my hand at a single adventure, or something, to wet my appetite (so to speak).  One of the reasons I'm more keen on DH at the moment, than the games with higher "starting levels", though, is that I haven't yet actually experienced the system in action.  I don't feel that that such a total lack of practical familiarity would make for very good game-mastering.

If you want I can co-GM with you if you want?  Answer any questions and help guide you through it, try iron out any problems that come up.

Play a quick two-man game together to get used to the char gen process and the game mechanic first, rather then jump in the deep end with a co-pilot 'safety net'. I'd gladly help too.

Hmm.  That might work.  Perhaps one of the published adventures floating around (there seem to be quite a few of them).  I wonder if you have any suggestions at ones that are less likely to have been read by everyone on these entire forums already?

You don't ever find that it can be hard to construct adventures for just a single player at a time?

I'm in a similar situation to M4G1 in that I'm a fan of the setting but haven't played the game yet.  I'm also a beginner to RP in general, so if you guys are going to run a 'practice' game I'd be grateful if you could include me.

No, no. I don't mean a full-blown game for one or two men, that's a whole lot of effort just to learn. I mean play a simple scenario or two, enter a crime scene and play through that to experience the type of RP and rolls that come with it, then sample a combat scene to walkthrough the combat rules, y'see?

Holy great ideas Castleman!
M4G1, I'll try this out with you if you like.

It can be hard judging balance with just one person as they are far more vulnerable to a few bad rolls.

As for published adventures:

The free one that came out before the book (cant remember its name but its about going into a mine... forlorn hope I think.)  Isn't very good but shows off all the different things you can do.  It includes NPC interaction, shooting combat, melee combat, challenges like climbing etc.

Edge of Darkness - a dude winds up dead with  horrible surgical things done to him.  He comes from a place in the lower hive go find out what happened to him.
Very good adventure and also free.  This one would definately go down well but because of this many people have played it and know it already.

The one in the back of the rulebook - Fun but very linear- its in the rulebook so most people will have read it.

House of dust and Ash - precursor of haarlock triligy (kind of).  Not played it but it looks interesting if a bit invloved for a new gm - its in the disciples of the dark gods - so a few people will have read it but it looks a bit complicated so not many will have finished reading it all the way through or will remember it all.

Purge the Unclean - sepearate adventure book contains 3 adventures
- Rejoice for you are true = Investigate a seemingly harmless imperial cult
- Shades on twilight = space hulk turns up broadcasting a missing inquisitors callsign, fast paced action in a space hulk.
- Baron Hopes = mutants in the mines of sepherus secundus.

Haarlock trilogy - Amazing but pretty epic - very few people will have played ti or finished it.  Especially on here.

I'll try the one from disciples of the dark gods, if only because I actually have it, and DLing things is such a pain.  I'll read it over over the enxt few days and see about setting something up.

I suppose of this helps me find a game of my own, but such is life.

That IS a terrific idea.  IF noting else it would give the chance to tinker around with character creation, and see how combat plays out in practice.  I dont think we'd even need a game, really - I'll send you a PM tonight, Johnny, and we'll go from there.