Got a house rule you want to share or something from the books you're not quite sure about then discuss it here.
This message was last edited by the GM at 11:59, Wed 21 Jan 2009.

Does anyone else find the idea of Initiative abit pointless? It just seems to me that the Gm can easily (and realistically) dictate who attacks first, even if it is abit vague.

Example: X, Y, Z and P have all headed to the top of the street. At the other end are the villainous rouges who stole their money bags. The group charge in and attack (All PC's attack first, regardless of whether ranged, magical or melee), then all NPC's.

I guess its all about how its handled/described by the GM.

Sure it might be easier to say, "You guys go, now my guys go".

But, especially in WFRP, it is a game driven by distinction. For some characters, their whole thing might be how they move first, before the lumbering juggernauts or the uber-magus with his awesome spells and liscence to be cool.

Of course, it makes it even more spectacular when you have that Dark Elf saunter in and move quicker than even the Initiative-whore can move.

Just all depends how you flavor it.

True, though more often than not characters that are taken out first are the ones who can survive a few hits and still rape your party seven ways from sunday.

That and I'm a lazy Gm when it comes to combat.

I think initiative is very important.  Getting the first hit in might not make that big of a deal, but the second and third one should have someone seriously hurt with any luck or down and out.  My PC's avoid metal armour for the most part to avoid the -10 penalty as several times baddies go just ahead of them have gotten too close to killing them.

I do like the DH system for initiative better (d10 plus AG bonus) as it makes the rolls much closer.

And you get a lot more opportunities for the perfect split tie in DH!

Combat is my preferred way of making the game have an edge of desperation. I would encourage any GM to take advantage of grappling in combat. One of the most memorable experiences of mine is having a PC scrap and scrape through the muck of an alley with a Scaven on his back gnawing on his shoulder. Blood and spit and split initiatives, all around.

How do people handle combat on Rpol? I've found that it can destroy a game as everyone tends to spend forever posting two lines saying pretty much the same thing. There are only so many ways of saying "I attack and then enter a parrying stance".

I ask for multiple actions.  eg. I all out attack every round until I get hit for more than 3 damage, fully defensive if under 4 wounds.

I then post a few rounds until something interesting happens, like someone drops, a wicked hit is scored etc.

PC's don't get to roll their own unless it is a small group to keep the action fast and furious, oh, and they need to tell my when to spend FP (eg. if failing a parry, on a fury that misses the second roll etc.)

Keeping it moving is what it is all about.

Longest combat ever was a game of DH where they were into round 20 or something like that.  I posted a couple rounds in the am, sometimes one in the afternoon, a couple at night, and it took 4 or 5 days to finish.

Not sure about RPOL, but I encourage a more descriptive statement, and I usually reciprocate in my own descriptions. If I have a group I can trust, then I let them come up with their own accounts.

I was kind of curious about trying a different style here at RPOL, like, making the character's put all their actions in PMs and then describing the account as one big mess.

Another easy way is to throw curveballs during combat. Like having innocent bystanders in the wing, or a timelimit, or taking one character and putting him in a conflict of interest of his targets.

But, I haven't had much experience with cats on RPOL. Does their tend to be a lot of "I swing my sword at him"?

Oh, and to clarify, actions posted, then one big summary.

Really depends on the player but there is a lot of I swing....that needs to be translated and I give the benefit of the doubt.  A "swing" by a character with a shield would most likely be an aimed +10 attack as they get a free parry with the shield.  I "shoot" would most likely be aimed unless there is a need to move and shoot or other action.

I've been quite lucky with my group in that they normally describe their combat actions anyway. A useful combat format I use is as follows:

PC's attack:
PC's Wound roll (if hit):
PC's Parry:
PC's Fortune point (if any used):

I've found it worked quite well so far. The only thing I've noticed that isn't fantastic is that most players will act completely rational and calm in combat, but that's just me nitpicking.

I recently had my group fight in a bar, full weapons and all that crossed with a  barroom brawl. The amount of confusion the PC's had was brilliant, as I had various patrons and others crash into each other and missed attacks nearly always hit someone (friend or foe). Ended up with most PC's getting about one attack for their current foe, before being knocked about into a new combat.

Does anyone use the expanded character module in their games? I've been reading it recently and it has some good material but some of it seems irrelevant. I had some players in a recent game who wanted to use the extra rules associated with star signs but we didn't use any of the others in regards to character generation such as background etc.

I've never used the module but I do use "Sigmar's Heirs" for a little bit more diversity (region specific PC's).

I've had a look at the star signs one (briefly, mind) and it seems abit unfair. Personally, I like it with the starsigns having no physical effect but can sway the players with fancy-nancy talk.

Does anyone know a good site for Dooming and such, as I'm interested in developing the PC background more.

The ECM has a d1000 chart for doomings but as for sites I couldn't say. Seeing as you mentioned star signs there is a section in the WFRP Companion that deals with the personalities of people born under different signs.

I've just spent the past couple of days creating a character using the ECM and it is the most fun I've had doing it and possibly one of the best I have ever created. Well recommended for people who have difficulty in character creation as there are so many ideas there.

Pardon my ignorance, but my brain is too addled by hops to put together what ECM stands for? Apart from Electronic Counter Measures...

Expanded Character Module. Possibly on a website called winds of chaos. Fearsome would be the one to ask on this one.

Gottya, thanks for the heads up Furry! My curiousity is piqued!

Dunno if you've found it already Sticks, but here's the link:  http://www.davesgames.net/wfrp2/

Heaps of cool stuff on there!  Including cardstock buildings that are great with minis.

Very nice website, I'm in the process of greedily snatching up everything not nailed down!

I have a question about quickdraw and thrown weapons that came up with the addition of an entertainer to my cast of characters in a table top session.

So thrown weapons have a reload cost.  Does this cover the drawing of the weapon to throw it?  With quickdraw can you draw for free and throw the weapon (aimed or saving the other half action for something else)?

That's how I've always played it.

I'm the same. I veiw each knife as a seperate weapon so one can be drawn by quickdraw, aimed and thrown in one action.

I reaally like the entertainer as a career, the are not brilliant combatants but the have a wide range of skills that can be applied to loads of situations.

Thanks for the feedback.  It's nice to know I am not crazy=:)

No flakk, you are crazy.

Now as for quick draw, if the weapon has a reload time you don't usually use quick draw, you use the reload time and whatever abilities affect that (master gunner and or rapid reload).

I however personally like the unwritten rule that if the weapon still has a reload time with either or both or neither of these talents you can still use quick draw once a turn for a free reload.
This message was last edited by the player at 21:35, Mon 30 Nov 2009.

You are right.  I failed that WP check looooonnnngggg ago=:)

Actually going to look at a townhouse tonight (and spend $$$$) so I think that proves that point=:)

Quick question-

Are Halflings immune to all mutations?  It says chaos mutations and just want to be sure about what that covers.

Using the Golden rule here, I'd say all mutations in 'normal' circumstance, ie. tainted water etc.

I'm sure if a Greater Daemon of the changer of ways focused a halfling would sprout mutations like there's no tomorrow :)

Unless you are being freaky and having radiation etc then the only cause of mutation in the old world is choas.

True, but I have a feel Flakk is seperating Chaos into it's different branches; Raw Chaos, Warpstone and Magic.

Yuppers.  Most concerned about warpstone at the moment.

As warpstone is choas in physical form, I would say that a halfling would have protection from it.

Halflings are able to mutate of warpstone, but they have much greater resistance. Read the Witch Finder!

A quick 2nd editon question that just cropped up in my game: What do you do in the case of the fury result for a magical dart attack?  Roll casting roll again and if you suceed then another d10...

I believe that Fury only works for attacks where you have to roll to hit. You can't roll to hit with a magic missile.

It does actually, only you roll WP instead of WS/BS.

I have asked this before and was told that the secondary advances are like the primary in the fact that they do not stack, but I have seen NPCs with WS stats in the 80s and 3 attacks in a career history of only two in attacks...for example page 117 in Knights of the Grail, Sir Laustic has 3 attacks with the careers of Faceless, Knight of the realm and Knight errant. Can anyone explain?

He also has a SB and TB of 3 when his S and T stats are above 40%. I say either a) typo, or b) someone is waxing lyrical with the sats for mere flavour purposes.

Other example of too many attacks, page 73 in the WRFP Companion, and page 36 the watch captain, path of the damned, ashes of Middenhiem I can cite many many more...but I don't want to spend the time... anyone want to try any other guesses?

All pre-made NPC characters. Definitely b: Flavour.

Well that irks me, I have seen NPCs with 84 WS and 3 attacks...thats just stupid. A PC in their 4 career would have no chance...so whats the point?

There isn't. Burn the books, forsake the game, discover sunlight and females.

By Sigmar, you're talking heresy!

Besides, it's a well-known fact that girls are carriers of cooties.  Just ask my wife; she'll tell you the same.

What book if any, details ogre stats for pc's?

What book if any, details ogre stats for pc's?

Not in any books that I know of. I've got a fan made pdf on the subject though.

http://www.lski.org/pictures/T...s%20-%202nd%20ed.pdf

Very nice!! ^^

Page 103 of the Bestiary also has a general 'sample character'. It also has Rat Ogres, Dragon Ogres, and Trolls.

I know you need the skill to use something as a weapon but do you need it to parry as well?

eg. Bucklers are in the parrying class of weapon so you need the skill to attack with it, but are you able to parry with it as without the penalty?

Bucklers require the Specialist Talent to use without penalty. But they do allow you a FREE Parry regardless of whether you have the Talent or not. So you would have the free Parry but with the penalty… How does that sound? Don’t have book in front of me.

I'm going to allow it to be used like a hand weapon/dagger for parrying. I think even in inexpert hands it should be as useful for parrying as a dagger. Just not give the +10 defensive bonus.

Under rules as written, only an attack roll is penalised by lack of training, anything else using a weapon is made at normal skill plus or minus additional modifiers (Defensive, Blind etc)

Even if it is not official I kinda like Overrkill's take on it and just might have to steal that idea.  I'm such an $2# sometimes=:)

Do you have a cite for that? Not doubting just curious... I could have sworn there was a Talent that allowed you to use any weapon to Parry without a non-trained negative. That would seem to make the Talent redundant!

It does seem counter-intuitive that a specialist parrying weapon can be used to parry without penalty, and is penalised only if you try and attack with it. Presumably that would mean that anyone can use a sword breaker to catch and snap a blade without training, but stabbing someone with it takes specialist training. My gut is with Kilgs o this, that all WS rolls with a specialist weapon are penalised if you don't have the talent.

I'll have to rake out the book but I remember that the untrained was a combat modifier to attacks and nothing was ever said in the faqs.

I know the rule was changed in DH where in the armoury section is says all relevant tests with the untrained weapon are at -20

The thing I still dont get why you need to buy a training to use a power sword if you already know how to use a normal sword, does it take 200xp for me to figure out how to push the on button or something?

Given the Pen on a power sword I'd just imagine for a moment that instead of 'powersword' we're talking 'lightsaber'. True, if you know how to use a normal sword it's pretty intuitive, and you try to avoid touching the blade in both cases. The extra training, however, reflects the fact that even a slight touch with one of these is likely to send you to the infirmarium needing serious surgery. The RAW do not include fumble rules - so there's nothing there to cover slipping and doing yourself a serious injury, but I'd think if you've just picked one of these up for the first time you'd be being very careful with it (effectively reducing your WS). I think a little special training to reflect that level of care is not unreasonable.

Okay, so if an animal requires healing would that be a heal check or an animal care check?  Would surgery give a +10 to either?

I would say there would be a synergy bonus, but on a heal roll. The military "use to" practice first aid by shooting goats, and having the medics keep them alive. Life saving skills are life saving skills, just with animals, all the bits are in different places.

I would suggest using either with Surgery providing a bonus. However, if the individual did not even have Animal Care it would likely indicate they have no experience with serious injuries (ie. surgery) and could only bandage.

I would think you need animal care. Not for the healing per se, but you need to figure out a way to keep an animal that is in pain under control while you inflict even more pain.

Okay here is another point that I do not think is covered by the rules-

One armed casting.  Would a +2 to the casting roll be too much, too little, or should there not be a penalty?

I would say there should be a channeling penalty, but actually casting, no.

I think with casting actual only the vocal part is important. That is why the wizards need to remember exactly the words. Gestures are only an aid to remember the incantation. So in my humble opinion, you should start with a penalty as you have to 'relearn' your ritual, but eventual should be more then capable to cast as before.

Possibly a 10-20 XP cost? Combined with commited RP time, of course.

If a Human Initiate rolls for his starting talents and gets Very Strong, could he take it again from his career options or buy it at a later time if he chooses Lightning Reflexes first (thus adding +10% to strength)?

According to RAW, no. You can only take a talent once.

Hey i am really new to WFRP and i was wondering if i could get well alot of help


for one thing- from what i understand its sort of like Deathwatch in the sense of creating your character and i was wondering if someone could help me with that

And two- is it at all possible to play as Lizardmen because they are my favorite guys

Well it depends on which edition of the game you are speaking of. I can only speak for the first and 2nd edition. The current one I skipped since I don't like card based rpg's.

WFRP 2nd ed was the system used to build Dark Heresy and Deathwatch from. So, a lot of the rules are similar. Same with most of the stats and even the skills and talents used. In WFRP you can play 4 races. Human, halfling, Elf and Dwarf. There are separate books to play Chaos or Skaven. No Lizardman unfortunately. But there are some homebuild systems t obe found on the net to do just that.

With character creation, you roll stats just as in DW but then things differ. With WFRP you have careers, from humble rat catchers to haughty nobility. These you normally roll randomly. After all, a beggar can become a mighty hero in Fantasy doesn't he?

Realize though that compared to DW you are rubbish, but such is fitting for plain human stock ;)

In reply to Gwenlynn (msg #69):

Ok that is really helpful actually

You wouldn't happen to have a link for a site for a Lizardman character sheet would you because that is what I am really looking at to play I unintentionally seem to always pick the most badass army in every Warhammer games Space Marines Lizardmen (don't get me wrong I'm not gloating it's just unintentional I choose my army based on what the box shows them looking like lol *pretty colors*)

Sorry no, I found something a few years ago. Try googling on WFRP lizrdman 2nd 3dition, Lustria

alright thanks

here's something you may want to have a gander at.

http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=250748

Yeah that pretty helpful but i like Saurus skinks are ok but i just can't get into them like i can with Saurus warriors

Can an attack be parried with a Great Weapon? It technically meets the requirements as there is a weapon in both hands; just a single one, not two.

There are no special abilities of the weapon to imply that it cannot be used to parry. You might make a houserule that slow also implies that you parry at -10 with a great weapon though.

If you could parry because you use two hands,  then grabbing a long sword with both hands should allow a parry. Using two weapons for a free parry is due to one hand not being used in the attack, and therefore able to parry.

You can parry with a great weapon if you enter a parrying stance as a half action.  This means you can still make a standard attack as a half action but you cannot charge, swift attack, all-out attack or any other full action manoeuvre.

For those with a one-handed weapon this still applies except that you can use an off-hand weapon for parrying AS A FREE ACTION.  This of course means you are able to charge, all-out attack etc as well as parry.

I don't think the 'slow' effect has any difference by RAW but I like the idea that it would give a -10% to the parry.


If this was in a game I was playing in I would strongly object to allowing a Great weapon user to parry without he goes into a parrying stance, slow or no slow.  A great weapon is extremely powerful and useful but it does have - and should have - obvious disadvantages.

Thought I would share this- I wrote these rules for adding some additional background to WFRP2 PC's years ago- finally posted it today:

Linkage: http://rat-catcher.blogspot.co...its-for-wfrp-v2.html

At first gtlance, they look like interersting additions. Though perhaps having 3 skills/talents would be a bit much.

Yeah, I've considered cutting it back to two- it's quite easy to just lump the 3 skills/talents together and make it a 'chose 2'.  Another fix if it becomes too min/maxy is to not allow skills from a background to stack with career skills- that way it adds a little flavor and competence for PC's that have a slightly more interesting background, but can't be overtly abused to yield valuable skills if you stack a background and a career that overlap significantly.

Does Parry use the same modifier as the attacks made that round? Or is it straight WS?

Depends on the modifier I believe, if it's a weapon modifier it depends on what weapon you're parrying with, if you get a free parry from a weapon in your off hand it's assumed you're using that weapon to parry with, if it's an "environmental" modifier I believe it affects both attack and defense.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:59, Thu 17 Oct 2013.

Off the top of my head...

Weapon modifiers effect it so that would be defensive e.g Best Craftmanship Sword, Shield, Buckler most other Parrying Class.

I'd agree with Sarge on "environmental" modifiers be that terrain, being outnumbered or GM imposed modifiers.

Action wise which is what I think you are asking about I would say it doesn't. As far as I remember they are written to be mutually exclusive. A character who goes All Out Attack can't take a defensive reaction and a character in Defensive Stance can't attack. I think the only way they can come into conflict is if you are using the optional rule Action, Action, Action!

So...

A character with BC Sword and Shield in off hand takes the action Aim (half) and Standard Attack (half). He attacks +10 for aim and +5 for sword giving him an attack of WS+15. In defence he receives a reaction Parry using Shield which is defensive +10 but off hand -20 so a he parries at WS -10.

Same character enters Defensive Stance (full). So he may use his BC Sword in his main hand for +5 WS and +10 for being defensive as well as +20(?) for Defensive Stance giving him a parry of WS+35.

Hopefully that explains things a bit.

Note: This is off the top of my head and I'm pretty sure some of the terms and values are a bit mixed up with Dark Heresy so if anyone with a book in front of them can come and add to this. Also haven't actually played in a while...
This message was last edited by the player at 22:22, Thu 17 Oct 2013.

There's actually no mention of a negative to parry from using your off hand under two weapon fighting, just to attack.

Correct...that is only to attack.  Shields and parrying weapons are designed to be used off-hand by non-ambidextrous people.

I obviously need to go back and read over the rules. Perhaps that's a house rule I've been using. I've always applied the modifier to any action using the off hand. To me the benefit of having the free reaction is the price you pay for a negative penalty and also increases the benefit of being ambidextrous.

Sarge and Prowler are both right.  The 2 weapon fighting rule specifically gives the off-hand negative only to attack rolls.



Not so sure about this.  What do you mean by ?

As I read the rule for Defensive Stance all it gives is that an enemy attacking you is at -20% to his attack.  It certainly does not add to your parry.  Your BC sword does absolutely nothing since you cannot attack.  But although you cannot attack in that stance you canstill parry (or dodge if you have the skill).  But your parry would be your normal parry at WS +10% for the shield.  Your sword and your stance do not affect this parry.

In reply to The Digger (msg # 88):

That might be a Dark Heresy or Deathwatch carryover.  Swords in those settings have the Defensive quality (+10% to Parry).  Not so much in WFRP.

prowler; are you referring to Furry's 10% defensive sword?  I am not saying a sword is defensive.

The defensive rule for swords is taken from the WFRP Armoury it gives basic weapons additional benefits at BC under a side bar Option: Distinguishing Hand Weapons.  Hammer is Pummelling, Military Pick is Armour Piercing, Slow, Axe is Impact and Sword is Defensive. (WFRP Old World Rmoury pg 29)

My apologies. Although published these are optional rules whereas in DH they are written in the Core Rules for the sword at least.

The +5 bonus is for Best Craftmanship (WFRP  Core Rules pg107)  So a Best Craftmanship sword would give a parry bonus.

You're right on defensive stance. It's coming back to me now I knew there was a 20% bonus somewhere.

I'm sorry if I'm causing confusion as I'm more into the 40k side of things these days and it's all slightly the same but a little bit different and I do tend do bash various rule sets together and play about with a lot of house rules. Glad that there's some discussion though.
This message was last edited by the player at 01:51, Fri 18 Oct 2013.

I may be wrong (again) but there is a Balanced Quality which means you suffer no modifier while using the weapon in your off hand. The Buckler is both Balanced and Defensive (?). Why give both those qualities to an item if there's no negative modifier for parrying off handed. There might not be a specific reference in the combat section to parrying off handed but I'm pretty sure it says any action attempted off hand is at -20.

I think I'm going to look this up.

And I am wrong. Apologies Sarge there is indeed no reference of a negative modifier to parry only to attack. You are entirely right.

WFRP Core Rules Two Weapon Fighting pg 130 says...
A character can parry as a free action once per round. This parry can be used at any point during the round. The limit of one parry remains in effect.

DH Core Rules Two Weapon Fighting pg 197 says...
If you're wielding a melee weapon as one of your two weapons you may make a Parry once each Round as a Reaction as normal with this weapon, though you may still not Parry more than once in a Round. This Weapon Skill test is not an attack, and therefore it does not suffer the standard penalty for attacks made using your secondary hand.

There's not even a balanced quality in WFRP only in DH where it doesn't even do what I think it did. I'm going to look to see where I got this from. I Think I've been spouting house rules as though gospel and got rather confused along the way. Apologies again all round
This message was last edited by the player at 01:48, Fri 18 Oct 2013.

Because you can still attack with your off hand, so in the event the weapon in your dominant hand is disarmed or you really want to use that off hand (Buckler does have Pummeling, and Sword Breaker can break swords, while BC Hand Weapons if using certain optional rules do offer benefits all their own, so there are some reasons to) and you aren't Ambidextrous, you won't suffer the -20% to your off hand attack. In fact, the only part of the combat rules that mentions a negative to attack from the off hand is two weapon fighting, probably because they expect in most cases the player to use the dominant hand unless he's using two weapons.

Regardless RAW does not include a negative to off hand parries.