So, the dv thing... How does this sound?  If there are no objections, I'll go with it.

DV = (lower of DEX or WITS divided by 2, round down) + (ATHLETICS or MARTIAL ARTS divided by 2, round down) + (higher of M.DEX or M.WITS, divide by 2, round up)

This rewards the mega atts while preventing them from being a full +5 to the DV, and makes DV's lower on average than the success rate of an equal die pool.  It also doesn't necessarily reward a total min/max on DEX.

Edit: this would be a constant value, unaffected by things like multiple actions.  Perhaps a pile on penalty of 1 per extra attacker over your mega perception or something.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:07, Fri 04 June 2010.

i suck, i forgot to add divide by 2 on the megas. corrected.

I don't like it, to be blunt.  It makes it almost impossible to make a character that relies on speed and agility to not get hit: aka, the paper ninja/glass cannon.  If we use Imp as an example, he has dex/wits 5, ath/ma 5, and mega dex 4.  using current rules he's sitting at a 9 dv.  Using the new rules he'd be sitting at 7.
On an average roll Imp won't hit himself at 9.  Sure, it's possible, easily possible, to tag 10 sux with his die pool (Max of 22. Including re-rolling 10s and the sky's the limit).  At 7 however, he's going to hit himself more often than not. Also, it really weakens the mega dice, which in theory are twice as potent as their lesser kin.
I think the issues that you're having with dvs is that there are quite a few characters in the party that are pushing the limits of dex based defense (Imp, Sue, and Sol if i figure correctly).  We only really have 1 person chasing the brick archetype (Comstock) and, when he hits his total buffed soak of 40/34 he too is almost impossible to meaningfully threaten (am curious what his agg soak is).  Granted he has put a lot more resources into defense than Imp has, but getting 10 sux on an attack roll is far more likely than getting 36 on damage (assuming M.str 5, str 5, claws 5).
Adding in people who have gone for both soak and dex or other stuff (absorbtion) and you've got people who are really hard to deal with.
Which, perhaps, is as it should be.  Imp is about as dangerous socially as Geisha, it stands to reason that people who have been putting most of their xp into combat stuff should be at the apex of power in that arena as well.
If we do switch to these lower dvs (which I won't complain about after posting this), could I request that it occur after the current showdown in the garage in Mexico?  I'm more than a little concerned that Imp won't survive that fight as it stands...

We can switch after mexico (thus they would apply to the Columbia thread).  I will take your concerns under consideration, and offer my take on it.

The dice system for hit vs. dodge has always been a little wonky, providing a huge advantage to dex characters that isn't necessarily appropriate (which I think current rules we are using help to mitigate), but for dex vs. dex, it is at least mathematically equivalent, if still being extremely random, due to the nature of mega-dice and such.  Someone will end up hitting most likely in any given exchange.  With the DV system we were using however, all things being equal, you end up with characters that are likely to spend several rounds hitting nothing but air.  Then, when you add in powers that hike defense, you get to the point that even on exceptional roles, people are barely hitting (there are no powers other than luck, to my knowledge, that up accuracy; there are several that up defense).  This is a problems for the system, and especially a problem for online play where things that drag on too long become boring and people lose interest.

Further, m.dex is certainly not being shortchanged in the deal.  It still is used for a majority of the important roles in the game.  This mirrors the soak provided by m.sta for lethal damage.  It also makes speedsters more impressive, since any gains from hyperspeed and other powers are NOT part of the formula, and thus have their full values applied when applicable.  Diluting dex further by adding wits to the formula... That was the one I was unsure on, and I would like to hear if people would like that to go away, in addition to any further comments on this change.

Oh, also note that this number is not affected by multiple actions, so while your first defense in a round may be lower, it is ultimately to the advantage of the player concerning multiple attacks.  I was unsure however on whether to use perception or wits to determine how many attacks one can dodge without penalty, and whether to use just megas, or to just do it like the above formula for mega-stam (1/2 round down for normal, 1/2 round up for mega).  Comments on this would also be helpful.

Ok.  I don't mind the dex/wits thing, however, according to your formula our dvs would be lower yet, since you've divided dex/wits by two, rounding down, and then taken athletics/ma and divided them by two, rounding down again, which would make Imp's dv 6 instead of 7, as it would be with dex/wits+ma/ath divided by two. 6 seems problematically low, whereas 7 doesn't worry me as much, for some reason...  It does mean that you've addressed the problem of dex monsters being unhittable, as without adding in def increasing powers they'll hit 7 maximum, but it does so by making anyone who plans on getting into combat need to take some soak buffers or aforementioned dv buffers in order not to get turned into a fine red mist.
Speaking of mist, Imp may be looking at buying force field sooner than anticipated...

As I already indicated, I'm not switching over in the Mexico thread.  That will conclude with the old system, no arguments.  That said, I do not have a problem with the new system, in part because it is fairly simple to pick up further DV enhancers.

Examples off the top of my head:
1) without even touching powers, cover and other equipment can do the trick, giving +1 or +2 DV depending (and, Rydi, that is probably the easiest solution, since cover and defensive equipment can be destroyed thusly, making them ablative protection and very in genre ... stuff has to get smashed up and broken in superhero fights!);
2) Hypermovement adds one DV per level in any circumstance where you can turn up the speed;
3) the Superheavy Armor enhancement adds soak and +1 DV;
4) Gravitas' Gravatic Shield subtracts its power rating in successes from oncoming projectile attacks, which might as well be called + power rating in DV.

I'm not worried, but that's not entirely fair since I've been running NPCs (who are supposed to get beaten anyway) and Comstock (who can be beaten upon but rarely risks harm).  I also think that hitting your own DV more often than not is a good sign, since the alternative is fights that don't involve anyone hitting anymore.  The only stat that seems like it is being devalued a bit is Mega-Dexterity ... which was already very powerful anyway.  Do I like Wits in the equation?  Were I doing game design, maybe, but in this case no.  I like Mega-Wits being  a factor just fine.

Oh, White Wolf.  Why must you ooze flavor yet fail on crunch?


Sidenote: Comstock's aggravated soak is ... you know, agg is so rare I haven't calculated it.  Now I have to check which powers actually don't count.  Hurm.

I appreciate the input so far.  I know our group is light on rules lawyers (something that I think makes this a fun group btw) but I'd love hearing from the other players if they have an opinion.

Once this DV thing is done, I think the house rules for this game will be pretty much complete, at least until something major comes up to bite us in the butt :)

9)Taint from Rapid Quantum Regeneration
The roll listed in the book doesn't do anything, and is even less meaningful in the PbP environment.  New rule: each rapid recharge nets you 1 temporary taint.

Any serious complaints?  It would be nice to see temporary taint once in a while, or ever.

Is it still possible to somehow transmute this into chrysalis?

In reply to Gravitas (msg #44):

If doing so is thematically appropriate, then yes.

Amended chrysalis to account for that cap I spoke of previously.  The cap on xp spent in chrys/connection is 45 until someone convinces me otherwise, and makes max time spent out of play just shy of a year.

I updated the rules, and separated them into categories for easier reference.  Please reference them on the first post of the first page.

I standardized combat a bit more, and made some changes to DV, extra actions, etc.  Complain here if you hate something.

Rydi, questions i have.

The course of the degenerative condition is based on node + quantum:
9-10 = -3 to mega atts, with acute period of -4
7-8 = -2 to mega atts, with acute period of -3
5-6 = -1 to mega atts, with acute period of -2
All individuals will find their quantum pool depleted; at the early stages it is a -10 to total q, but it will quickly progress to the point that the nova can maintain no more than their Quantum (big Q) in quantum pool.  During the acute stage, the nova will initially become ill, then lose all ability to hold quantum in their pool.

Those below 5 still have minuses, but they merely take a minus during the acute period.  The symptoms ramp up slowly, peak, then slowly dissipate; the process takes Q+node months to fully resolve for those of Q+node > 5, and weeks for those of 5 and below.  Assuming no cure, there will be permanent minuses randomly determined as the quantum pattern of the nova never fully recovers.

Does this mean that since Imp's (and almost everybody else, i think) at 10, his symptoms would go something like:
In the first 4 weeks he's at -1 to all mega attributes.  The next 3 weeks would be -2, the next 2 weeks would be -3, and then the next 4 weeks -4.  Then he'd drop back to -3 for 4 weeks, -2 for 5 weeks, and then -1 for the last 6 weeks. Or something like that?  Would him training to try to mitigate these losses (possible only with those atts he's not at 5 in) be possible? Would he/we be paying xp costs based off our pre-infection levels? Would we only be able to buy them up to 3 (if they're non core) so that we would eventually be left without those atts and their respective enhancements regardless of said training/xp expenditures?

Other factors can complicate this, such as Quentin's super node, which will result in derangements, or the "chi manipulation" involved with Dragon's tai chi will mitigate the symptoms somewhat.  Those with body mods and such will find them not performing well, and creating health problems.

Post-chrysalis Terats are impacted even more by this process, as they suffer more than others from social and self-esteem issues in addition to power loss.  Oh, and they tend to have their power "short out" more erratically than others, and have minor derangements surrounding their sense of self and identity ("I'm a Marvel goddamn it! I will FLY off this building, even if it kills me..."  "Who am I?  I... I'm not this... I don't understand, what's going on?") Dissociative fugue, delusions, and other breaks with reality would be some of the more common.

Ok, more of the crazy then.  Got it.  Will our powers just short out entirely/erratically?  Will they weaken?  Will these issues follow the same pattern of intensity as the mega atts, or will they be purely sporadic/plot devicium failures?

If graphed, the symptoms would provide a jagged curve with a positive skew... Rather than forming a regular curve, symptoms Peak earlier and taper off slowly.

---

For those interested in where this plot connects to the larger setting, and those looking for plot hooks:

1) The nova infertility issue is connected to the degeneration, primarily in that they share a mode of delivery.  Finding a cure to one could help with the other, and insight into one might reveal the nature of the other.

2) The plot is meant to reveal the machinations of Utopia, not as the primary culprits, but rather inadvertently as the details of the degeneration is uncovered

3) The villain is intimately connected to nova society, and is working with the U.S. government, for whom the "shadow man" is an operative

4) As some of you have likely guessed, this plot takes characters "full circle", back to their days as a baseline.  No cure will be found that will prevent the onset of the acute, debilitating stage.  It's necessary for plot.  Nor will there be a "certainty" that any cure will work or return characters to normal.  The emotional uncertainty is there to provide drama and force people to address what they became, what they have to lose, and what they might have to settle for if their powers never return.  There is of course a cure, but the characters don't get to know that until it's administered and the degeneration has ran its course.

5) This plot was meant to introduce the Directive.  Depowered novas with strong
connections, limited options, and a lot of field experience are appealing operatives.  I want to introduce this right after powers bottom out.

6) Teragen characters will see friendships dissolve, self identity become exceptionally confused, and find old enemies treating them little better than baselines.  How does it feel to be one of the masses?

---

Any questions?  I'll address them on the OOC thread.

That's roughly correct, though the first several weeks would be no symptoms at all.  I would advise not spending xp on improving any nova traits during this period.  The temporary forced stabilization of your degrading quantum pattern would likely not be retained permanently, and if they were it would cost additional xp.  And yes, old caps still remain.  Training might be able to mitigate losses for a short time, but the big problem is that the organ controlling all your quantum powers is shorting out, so most solutions stemming from extra quantum training will not last... That said, I could see training getting you perhaps one or two stable mega attributes that suffer a lesser penalty.

Powers aren't lost, but since you have no quantum in your pools, they are basically inaccessible.  You might be able to do a node recharge and use that instant of extra quantum before it dissipates to "spark" a power briefly, and Dragon's tai chi will let him retain a small amount of q, but for the most part you can't use powers without q.

As far as crazy goes, it isn't insanity exactly, especially for the terats.  But as you've functionally remade your core conception of yourself, there is a schism when you lose the traits that that conception was formed around.  How each nova handles that though, is very personal and unique to the individual.
Unless their taint resistance from mega-int is reduced and their monster node starts pressing on their brain and causing taint based derangements, in which case they are in fact insane.  Poor Quentin.

So, p.134 of the main book talks about "qualities" (attribute specializations) and how they let you reroll 10's.  Most people forget this, and it adds extra effort to the dice roll.  From now on, we'll just count 10's on normal dice as 2 successes, and 10's on mega-atts give 3 successes as normal.


I also noticed that we stopped using the DV's we had been using.  Fine with me, it was kind of a flawed, makeshift convention anyway.  While I'd eventually like to fine tune some sort of DV system just to make posting easier, I'm not sure anyone really cares enough about the rules to bother.  For the time being we'll just continue rolling our e-dice and move along.
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:23, Tue 02 July 2013.

Combat
DV's are out.  They were being used inconsistently, and they never quite captured what we were looking for.  New rules give you a pool equal to your normal dodge, that I will roll in response to your attacks (you still get to make your dodges, describe actions, declare dodge priority, etc).  This is to reduce posting lag, and I promise to be fair with the rolls (little secret, I'll probably use average successes most of the time, unless it's really important).  My greatest priority in combat is making sure it flows as quickly as possible, and stays entertaining.  Full rules are written on the first post of this thread, and are actually much more lenient than standard rules (free dodge, lower penalty for split dodge, etc.)

Alternate Mega-Enhancement Pairings
Not all Mega-Enhancements require their listed Mega-Attribute as a per-requisite.  Some may be paired with other appropriate Mega-Attributes.  The book suggests this if I remember correctly, and it just makes for better play.  Good Examples include Quickness (Dexterity instead of Wits), Discerning Mind (Manipulation instead of Intelligence, or Charisma for a variant enhancement with a similar effect), and  Halo (Charisma instead of Appearance).  While these changes must still be approved, and should not be seen as a carte blanche solution to xp and Mega-Attribute tension, this is a good option for character building and limiting people branching into things they aren't suited to just to get access to a single key enhancement.

More lunkheadedness:

So, I pick 2 Virtues (I sorta had my eye on Hope and Justice).  By roleplaying these 2 Virtues (I assume an instance of either Virtue would count?) I get an opportunity to spend 2xp to get a point of Temporary Connection.  When that track reaches 10, I go on pilgrimage/sabbatical/spiritual retreat/family reunion for a period of time and my Permanent Connection goes up by 1.  At that time, I can spend up to 45xp using those reduced costs associated with Connection.  Did I miss anything?

In reply to El Dragon (msg # 52):

Sounds right. Though we've been pretty fast and loose with the rules, so I don't think you'll have to grind out all 10 pts worth of dots, more like just play out the appropriate traits in game.

Updated Connection costs in the first post.  They are a tiny bit cheaper now.  If you used connection to purchase stuff, feel free to give yourself the points back.  Willpower is the biggest reduction (now .5 x current, round up), while the others just lost the extra 1xp I added to them for some inexplicable reason.

http://www.soulfire.net/Aberrant/

Avilister added the Aberrant Companion, a small collection of new traits.  A few are broken, so as usual run things by me first if you take them, but the material is mostly open for use.

Since the index shortens the names of the files its the "Fan Companion" which is, specifically, this one: http://www.soulfire.net/Aberra...0Fan%20Companion.pdf

Sages of Ruleness (basically anybody that wants to chime in, although the STs will ring the loudest, obviously), I have a question.
I'm envisioning Paidrag/Mechanus as a brutal, straghtforward brawler, and Sean/Wheelman as a more calculated melee(er). I'm thinking about having Sean use a sword and shield (calculated offense and defense).

What is the best way to have a real, physical, sword (and shield) that would be able to grow and shrink with him when he does likewise, and wouldn't be tuned into scrap metal when he hit stuff/got hit?  Storywise, Rachel Alinsky could easily be the maker (Sean is DeVries, after all), and I was thinking attunement would perhaps cut the mustard, but after re-reading it, it doesn't.

For the shield, I'm thinking of having the force-field power, but have it channeled through a bracelet/gauntlet/McGuffin and have it project a shield of force that would be size appropriate.

The crunch (if it's important) problem with the sword would be that, realistically, it should do more damage when it's 6-8 ft long (or 12-16ft, if things go a bit crazy later) than when it's 3-4 feet long.

In sum, what's the best (coolest, non-twinkiest) way to have a physical sword that is basically indestructible, grows and shrinks with him, and could possibly do more damage as he grows (cool, but non-mandatory)?

I would think that the easiest way to handle it would be as a gadget, though I recall there being a Body Modification expansion in The New Flesh called Limb Blade that might be of use.

Sword Possibilities:
-Attunement to a sword-gadget, the only power being that it grows in size/dmg
-quantum weapon power with some limiters
-a more complex gadget that has an appropriate set of built in powers, attunement not required

Shield Possibilities:
Basically the same as above, replacing qw with ff.


Personally, I like the idea of just a growing sword/shield that add dice like normal armor/swords, albeit large versions of each.  Shield rules are on pg 131 of the New Flesh, and there's some rules for masterwork weapons in there too.  I'm not keen on items with powers in them overall, at least not unless they are wielded by the person that made them, but I'm open to it if you are extremely interested in it.

Let me know where you want to go with things, and we can detail the options you are interested in a bit further.

Personally I'd just Claw and Force Field/Armor it, and call it special effects. If it's really necessary to make some distinctions, figure it out as weaknesses and get them cheaper/more awesome. But I play a fair amount of M&M so that's probably where a lot that comes from.
This message was last edited by the player at 03:04, Tue 01 Oct 2013.