matthewfenn
 member, 318 posts
 www.nj-pbem.com
 Northern Journey PBeM DM
Sun 12 May 2013
at 16:34
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
Deffo a thumbs up from me :-)

             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             
             

Greybeard
 member, 9 posts
Tue 14 May 2013
at 01:58
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
I'm really excited about the prospect of being able to create maps using the shaded grids.

Let's put this into production and start using it! :)
jmkool
 member, 264 posts
 aka'd as The Kool
Tue 14 May 2013
at 03:39
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
I approve!  This function is looking more and more beautiful by the day!
Lunarius
 member, 257 posts
 eadem mutata resurgo
 pax ex tyranny
Tue 14 May 2013
at 03:49
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
In reply to Greybeard (msg # 114):

So am I.  That is beyond exciting.
jase
 admin, 3103 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Tue 14 May 2013
at 06:18
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
Still a little worried about the use of "#", but if those who'll be using it don't think so, then that makes life easier for me!
matthewfenn
 member, 320 posts
 www.nj-pbem.com
 Northern Journey PBeM DM
Tue 14 May 2013
at 08:11
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
What is your concern Jase?
PushBarToOpen
 member, 786 posts
Tue 14 May 2013
at 09:23
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
Can you copypaste these new smart tables from other posts at all?as that is pretty much needed.

Since i can't seem to i will say thats a no.

So can we have a feature to be able to copy/paste others tables easily.
matthewfenn
 member, 321 posts
 www.nj-pbem.com
 Northern Journey PBeM DM
Tue 14 May 2013
at 11:31
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
I don't think it's ever been possible to copy other people's tables - but simple enough to quote them and then edit the mail that's generated...

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing the functionality pushed out to the rest of the site - I'm going to update my MTG spreadsheet to use the smart tables instead :-)
jase
 admin, 3104 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Tue 14 May 2013
at 12:42
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
In reply to matthewfenn (msg # 118):

me:
Not sure about it being the hash symbol though, that might be used a bit in cells as text?  If someone uses "|#2" in a cell (without spacing) then it'll pick up the #.

Not sure how much problem it'll cause, but best to think of these things before we set it in stone.
Skald
 moderator, 423 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Tue 14 May 2013
at 13:34
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
Yup, far better to sort problems out beforehand, quite agree. :>

There weren't many other symbols left that are easily accessible from the keyboard (I think the ~ is the only one that didn't seem to me to be in ordinary use) and # seemed more appropriate to indicate shading ... how about rather than single # use ## for shading ?

Or perhaps use single quote as override for any control character ?  eg '< gets you a < not left cell alignment (more code to process and remove the ' though, I'm afraid).
PushBarToOpen
 member, 788 posts
Tue 14 May 2013
at 14:24
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
other than the way that they are coded then what is trhe differance between

# xOO
 # xO
O # x
# x| O| O |# x| O O| |# x And
xOO
 xO
O x
= x| O| O |= x| O O| |= x
The only defferance i can see is bolding the characters which can be done with the Bold tags so why not remove the # and just use = without making it bold?
jase
 admin, 3106 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Tue 14 May 2013
at 15:56
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
In reply to Skald (msg # 122):

Well ! or * springs to mind.  Not in favour of any kind of "escape" coding, the simple fact is if you want to make sure it's printed, then put a space before your text.  Much easier than messing around with single quotes.

If people don't think it's an issue that's fine, but I was concerned about people trying to number cells, for some reason, which might make them included to use the hash symbol.

But if it's going to cause issue and we can't think of a simple character to use, then I can just make it mandatory to have a space in-between the control codes and the text, rather than the current more lenient conditions.


In reply to PushBarToOpen (msg # 123):

Why remove the flexibility proposed?  I'd really be surprised if we couldn't come up with another character that allows for the non-bold highlighting that Skald suggested.

Note that I'm also still waiting for somebody to actually state if they think "#" will, or will not, be an issue!!  Proposed alternatives are all very well and good, and thanks for the input, but are they actually needed?  I don't even know that yet!  You are all going to be using it, not me, so I need that simple question answered first.
matthewfenn
 member, 322 posts
 www.nj-pbem.com
 Northern Journey PBeM DM
Tue 14 May 2013
at 16:13
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
I think the # symbol is fine.  I agree that some people might try to use it to number a cell, however since if they try to use it without a space between the cell codes and the contents, then they'd fall foul of the number being interpreted as cell spanning instead...

I personally would enforce the need for the space before the cell contents... As you said, it is good practice.
Utsukushi
 member, 1220 posts
 I should really stay out
 of this, I know...but...
Tue 14 May 2013
at 16:18
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
jase:
Note that I'm also still waiting for somebody to actually state if they think "#" will, or will not, be an issue!!  Proposed alternatives are all very well and good, and thanks for the input, but are they actually needed?  I don't even know that yet!  You are all going to be using it, not me, so I need that simple question answered first.

Unless the space is mandatory, I think an alternative would be better.  I can totally see why Skald picked it to start with - it's a good intuitive suggestion of shading - but it's also one of the only punctuation marks people often use at the front of their text.

So I'd either make the space mandatory, or use !.  ! suggests emphasis, so I think people will pick it up pretty easily.
ninthbit
 member, 63 posts
 Steampunk Advocate
 My profile has goodies
Tue 14 May 2013
at 16:54
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
I've been losly following this topic, so excuse me if I'm way off here.  But I would go with the following:

# Use = here
Use ! here

The ! would seem to correlate with the bold better, the = is a fair representation of shading, and the # is then available for numbering.

Edit:  BTW, I can't wait for this feature.  >=)

This message was last edited by the user at 16:59, Tue 14 May 2013.

jase
 admin, 3107 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Wed 15 May 2013
at 00:04
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
matthewfenn:
if they try to use it without a space between the cell codes and the contents, then they'd fall foul of the number being interpreted as cell spanning instead...

Not quite - it'll highlight but not span.  It's lenient with the non-numeric formatting characters "<>^=", but not with the cellspan/rowspan/width digits.  The logic was it's "safe" to assume that "<Text" means left aligned text, but it's not safe to make any assumptions when the text contains a number.  Which lead to my concern with hash, as I was unsure it's safe to assume that something beginning with it was meaning highlight.  Post 91 has examples on what is or isn't allowed.

If all this leniency is going to cause confusion, and possibly catch unsuspecting members out, then perhaps it'd be best if space was mandatory.  I was trying to be nice, but maybe it's counterproductive.  (c;


In reply to ninthbit (msg # 127):

I can easily swap around the meaning of "=" and "!" (if that's what we choose).
jmkool
 member, 266 posts
 aka'd as The Kool
Wed 15 May 2013
at 04:06
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
My vote is:

Mandatory space
# for shaded & bold
= for shaded (without centered text, if you can swing it)

But I'll work with whatever symbols you pick, I just want mandatory space, and no centering on the shaded.
Skald
 moderator, 424 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Wed 15 May 2013
at 13:19
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
Personally I don't like mandatory spaces, but I suppose they're a necessary evil ... OR alternatively that's just my OCD showing (I DO like my pre-transformation grid to line up nicely too, if humanly possible).

I also like jmkool's idea of swapping the # and = tags around on the basis that the # is an = with additional vertical lines, so suggests additional functionality which is the bolding ... the only problem with that is that I think # is more likely to be used in a header than anywhere else - at least that's where I'd use it.

Good point jase about ! not being used very much before text ... given that, and the above, I'm voting for ninthbit's variation:

! for shaded and bold
= for shaded

on the basis that ! indicates attention, which is kinda the point of a header row.
matthewfenn
 member, 325 posts
 www.nj-pbem.com
 Northern Journey PBeM DM
Thu 30 May 2013
at 15:43
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
I echo jmkool:

My vote is:

Mandatory space
# for shaded & bold
= for shaded (without centered text, if you can swing it)
Denalor
 member, 64 posts
Fri 21 Jun 2013
at 10:19
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
jmkool:
We do, after all, have the detailed <table> mechanics if we need that.

I must admit that I never made much with tables but lately I have found that they are actually very useful for the "problem" I have at the moment.
So the last couple of days I've been busy trying to understand/learn all that html-table stuff.
I currently fail with something as easy as coloring of specific cells

<td bgcolor="#808080">xyz</td>

to shade a cell dark gray does not seem to work.

So I certainly anticipate the implementation of this huge thread.
When can this be expected ?
bigbadron
 moderator, 13761 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Fri 21 Jun 2013
at 10:25
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
Very little html works on RPoL - none of it in fact, since the site uses its own RUBB code, which just emulates some of the functions of html.  However, it doesn't emulate everything.  Cell shading would be one of the things that it doesn't.
matthewfenn
 member, 328 posts
 www.nj-pbem.com
 Northern Journey PBeM DM
Fri 21 Jun 2013
at 11:32
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
The only cell shading available in RUBB is by the code that Jase has put into place on this forum or by making the cell a header cell:

Shaded as a HeaderNot a Header
Shaded using = symbolShaded as a Header
Not shadedShaded using = symbol

Using code:
>  |! Shaded as a Header      | Not a Header             |
>  |= Shaded using = symbol   |! Shaded as a Header      |
>  | Not shaded               |= Shaded using = symbol   |


Can't wait for this functionality to spread to the rest of the site.  :-)

This message was lightly edited by admin, as it was in need of a minor tweak, at 03:18, Sat 22 June 2013.

Denalor
 member, 65 posts
Fri 21 Jun 2013
at 16:56
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
Okay, thanks for the explanation... never bothered what RuBB actually is, so I simply assumed it's just html... whatever. Am throwing expression that I actually know next to nothing about (blushes).
Makes the implementation even more anticipated :-)
ninthbit
 member, 132 posts
 Steampunk Advocate
 My profile has goodies
Fri 21 Jun 2013
at 17:43
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
There are a lot of different option available to players and GMs.  Some tags also have a few undocumented options as well.  If you ever wonder how somebody posted a certain format, just hit the "quote" link to look at the code.

/help/content.cgi?t=faqs&page=rubbcode
jase
 admin, 3149 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Sat 22 Jun 2013
at 03:17
Re: Easy Tables and Grids.
While I'd love to be able to allow any and all colours, the problem is that with different themes (especially with the ability for people to be able to create their own now) using a bg colour that works for you, might not work well for others.


I've changed the control codes for headers and for highlighting, using "#" had too much potential for clashing (even though it was the symbol that made the most sense).  "!" is now a header ("!!" for the entire/rest of the row), and "=" is now shading.