cholt75
 member, 24 posts
 Welcome to the Hellmouth,
 who wants pie?
Sun 4 Dec 2016
at 12:59
The ability to resign from a game
I have seen multiple times where I've been in games where the GM has disappeared, or for some reason doesn't remove me from a game I've left. Then, even when I delete the game from my list, every time someone else posts, I get the thread back. If there was a way for a player to remove themselves from the game, it would be a good thing. Why is it that a player can't already remove them self?
Gaffer
 member, 1411 posts
 Ocoee FL
 40 yrs of RPGs
Sun 4 Dec 2016
at 14:06
The ability to resign from a game
In reply to cholt75 (msg # 1):

If you have requested that the GM remove you from a game and he hasn't after a couple of weeks, contact the moderators and they will remove you.
cholt75
 member, 25 posts
 Welcome to the Hellmouth,
 who wants pie?
Sun 4 Dec 2016
at 14:09
The ability to resign from a game
Still would be nice not to have to have someone else handle your leaving.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15223 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Sun 4 Dec 2016
at 14:45
The ability to resign from a game
RPoL's stance has always been that only a GM can add a player to their game, and only a GM can remove them (except in situations where a Moderator does it).  We will never give a player the ability to add themselves to a game, or remove themselves from it.

So send the GM a PM asking to be removed.  If they haven't done it after one week, then rMail us, including a link to the thread where you requested that the GM remove you.  We will gladly remove you from the game, and it is really no problem for us - takes about five seconds.
Utsukushi
 member, 1390 posts
 I should really stay out
 of this, I know...but...
Sun 4 Dec 2016
at 15:50
The ability to resign from a game
And when you send your rmail to the Moderators and it spits out a list of... like, eight people, or something, as sending your rmail to, don't be aghast.  I asked about that once.  It doesn't actually rmail them each individually, so you're not bothering all of them -- it goes to some centralized "moderator" rmail box, and it's just listing everybody who could see it, if they wanted to.  So you're really just bothering whichever one has a moment to be bothered.

And bothering isn't the right word anyway.  They volunteered for this.  They get that rush of power.  Probably they cackle maniacally for, like, five minutes straight, when they're done taking you out of the game.  That's sixty times longer than they spend actually taking you out of the game.  Just cackling.  You're doing them a favor, really.
cholt75
 member, 26 posts
 Welcome to the Hellmouth,
 who wants pie?
Sun 4 Dec 2016
at 21:57
The ability to resign from a game
I understand the restriction for adding players. I agree wholeheartedly. I wouldn't like it if some random player entered a game I was running without my permission. But why the restriction on quitting the game?
Utsukushi
 member, 1391 posts
 I should really stay out
 of this, I know...but...
Sun 4 Dec 2016
at 22:42
The ability to resign from a game
Because player attrition is probably the single biggest issue for PbP games anywhere.  It should certainly be possible for a player to quit a game, of course.  But anything that makes it easy, especially to just drop away without a word, is, frankly, harmful to the community.

All the restriction does is basically mean you have to say goodbye before you go.  It's not an onerous burden, but taking it away would make a real problem* worse.

*- I mean, in context.  It's not like global warming or world hunger or even finding half a worm in your apple.  Wow, we have a good thing here.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15224 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Mon 5 Dec 2016
at 03:28
The ability to resign from a game
In reply to cholt75 (msg # 6):

So you're saying that you wouldn't want a player to join your game without your permission, but would have absolutely no problem with logging in one day to find that half your players had quit without having the decency to let you know first?

And that's what it comes down to really, players letting the GM know that they want to leave.

The fact that a lot of players would drop out without a word is the reason that jase changed the system so that any message in a game will pop it back onto their sticky list to haunt them (it used to only do that if there was a new PM).
Bornite
 member, 21 posts
Mon 5 Dec 2016
at 03:44
The ability to resign from a game
In reply to Utsukushi (msg #7) and bigbadron (msg #8):

While i do see what both of you are saying about players dropping out without a word, is that not what happens all the time where players just quit posting in games?  Yes, it would be nice and polite for a player to send the GM a message saying they want out, but I'd much rather log in and find players had just quit, than them simply stopping their posting and myself and other players waiting how long on actions.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15225 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Mon 5 Dec 2016
at 04:23
The ability to resign from a game
quote:
is that not what happens all the time where players just quit posting in games?

There is no way to force a player to post, the system can at least keep reminding them that the game exists.  Eventually they might get so annoyed that they do actually let the GM know they want to leave, just to stop it reappearing.

Also note that, as a GM, you can keep an eye on player activity in your game, and remove those that don't remain active.  There is no need to keep an inactive player around indefinitely.
leetbeef
 member, 37 posts
Tue 13 Dec 2016
at 15:33
Re: The ability to resign from a game
Bornite:
... I'd much rather log in and find players had just quit, than them simply stopping their posting and myself and other players waiting how long on actions.


I second this. The player should be able to remove himself from the game instead of having to make the GM do it after growing impatient.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15229 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Tue 13 Dec 2016
at 15:43
Re: The ability to resign from a game
Seconded or not, it is not going to happen.

As noted above, the RPoL mods and admin have made it very clear that they will not implement this function, any more than we would add one that lets players add themselves to a game.

GMs, and only GMs, control who has access to their games.

Players who want to join or leave a game actually have to *gasp* talk to the GM about it.

This message was last edited by the user at 05:26, Thu 15 Dec 2016.

leetbeef
 member, 38 posts
Thu 15 Dec 2016
at 04:35
Re: The ability to resign from a game
bigbadron:
Players who want to foin or leave a game actually have to *gasp* talk to the GM about it.


But they don't have to talk to the GM to quit, they just stop showing up. In the mean time the GM is wasting everyone's time waiting for a person that may or may not return. If a person just wants to quit without saying anything there should be an "opt out" or "quit game" button so the person can just hit that and not waste everyone's time.

I guess GM's only recourse for deadbeats is to strictly enforce posting frequency and remove people that way.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15231 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Thu 15 Dec 2016
at 05:30
Re: The ability to resign from a game
quote:
I guess GM's only recourse for deadbeats is to strictly enforce posting frequency and remove people that way.

A GM can remove players any way he wants to.

The GM is also free to impose whatever rules and limitations he wants on his own game (as long as they do not break site rules).  That includes deciding when a player should be removed (as opposed to the player just removing himself on a whim).

This message was last edited by the user at 06:19, Thu 15 Dec 2016.

Maidenfine
 member, 101 posts
Thu 15 Dec 2016
at 20:25
Re: The ability to resign from a game
leetbeef:
But they don't have to talk to the GM to quit, they just stop showing up. In the mean time the GM is wasting everyone's time waiting for a person that may or may not return.


This is a communication issue. If someone has stopped posting and isn't answering communication from the GM, they're gone. If the GM is sitting around waiting for them to post and hasn't attempted to PM or rMail them, then, yes, the GM is wasting everyone's time. The point is, the GM is in charge of their game. Period. Full stop. They decide who's in and who's out. They can make that decision however they like because it's their game. The only reason this is an issue is because people, for whatever reason, think it's too hard to just say, "Hey, I'm not feeling this anymore. Can you remove me?" Or even "Hey, you haven't posted in a while. Are you stuck or leaving?" Either of those are a perfectly legit option before pressing a button to leave or remove from a game. They won't give a player the option you want because the player isn't in charge of the game. And that wouldn't be an issue if people would just communicate with each other.
Gaffer
 member, 1413 posts
 Ocoee FL
 40 yrs of RPGs
Thu 15 Dec 2016
at 21:57
Re: The ability to resign from a game
I've run a bunch of games here. I've had a fair number of players stop posting. Some come back after a while with a good reason. Some I never hear from again. After waiting a few weeks, I remove them.

But I never let their absence hold up the game. I roll on with the other players and I'll post for the absent player when necessary. To let anyone not posting stop the story is just, to me, insane.
DarkLightHitomi
 member, 1093 posts
Fri 16 Dec 2016
at 06:00
Re: The ability to resign from a game
I think the point being made in favor of a resign button, is that if the player chooses not to communicate (like possibly from embarassment, or just not wanting to face that kind of difficult social interaction), they press a button and the system communicates for them that they won't be around anymore.

This may or not be a benefit to the gm, as if the player can't resign but just disappears, they gm may go through extra effort to keep the character at hand in case the player comes back, but if the player resigns, then the gm knows they can safely kill off the character dramatically and not go through effort associated with being prepared for the player to possibly return because they had some reason they were unable to post.

Some people just can't, or don't want to, deal with the uncomfortable social interaction involved. And the web format makes it easy to avoid. (almost too easy actually. I've even forgotten about games before, something that can't happen at the table).
leetbeef
 member, 39 posts
Fri 16 Dec 2016
at 11:37
Re: The ability to resign from a game
Maidenfine:
The point is, the GM is in charge of their game. Period. Full stop. They decide who's in and who's out. They can make that decision however they like because it's their game.


Alright so what about an option under 'Edit the game details and settings' > 'Settings' right after 'Sole Ownership' add 'Resign Button Active?' ?

Then its not a feature that's "imposed" on every game and instead is something GM's could choose to allow. I just don't feel like "we don't want to add it because it clashes with the way we wish things were" is a very good answer.

If player attrition is really the road block to implementation then maybe another route would be the GM having a button that sends a message to the players email address (I'm not saying reveal said players email address), something like an alert or some such. "The GM from such-and-such game beckons you."
Skald
 moderator, 742 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Fri 16 Dec 2016
at 14:09
Re: The ability to resign from a game
Worse ! <grins> ToU specifically states that "Your e-mail address isn't used for anything except for your login and site moderation" - I appreciate that your suggestion won't reveal the email to GMs, but we've specifically said we won't player's email address for anything other than the above.  And on a personal note I don't want nagging email - if I can't get on to post I'm already twitchy and guilty enough without being reminded.  (Yes, my esteemed players, I KNOW, but now I'm posting HERE ...)

leetbeef:
"I just don't feel like "we don't want to add it because it clashes with the way we wish things were" is a very good answer."

Um ... this is RPoL Development where people are free to like or dislike suggestions for whatever reason they choose ... so in fact it's certainly a good enough answer.

As a site policy, however ... yes, I believe it's still good enough.  I wish all players would be polite enough to PM the GM before they leave.  I wish all GM's had enough time to get on to transferring the character to themselves within a week so the leaving player isn't inconvenienced by games popping up on their sticky list.

This is supposed to be a community - we've probably all played face to face with friends in the past - wouldn't you talk to them to let them know if you couldn't play anymore ?  Is there really that much difference just because we're online and posting to boards ?

Current system - 1) player PMs GM to say they're going.  2) GM removes player.  3) If doesn't happen with a week then player rMails Mods and we remove them.

Now contrary to what may be popular belief, that last step to contact the mods doesn't happen often - we've had exactly 3 requests from players to remove them from games since 1 October 2016 to time of posting.  In two of those requests it hadn't been a week yet - one we didn't hear back from so assumedly the GM did the deletion, and for the other the week isn't up yet.  So given there's not much recourse to mod intervention, the current system seems to be working fine ?
Gaffer
 member, 1414 posts
 Ocoee FL
 40 yrs of RPGs
Sat 17 Dec 2016
at 02:31
Re: The ability to resign from a game
In reply to DarkLightHitomi (msg # 17):

You know, the player doesn't have to ask the GM's permission to leave the game or convince the GM that she/he's right to leave the game or apologize for leaving the game. Just has to write a note that says "Leaving game, please remove me." He/she can then ignore anything else the GM tries to say.

Pretty easy breakup, no?
steelsmiter
 member, 1672 posts
 AWE, BESM, Fate, Indies
 NO FREEFORM! NO d20!
Sat 17 Dec 2016
at 04:37
Re: The ability to resign from a game
leetbeef:
Alright so what about an option under 'Edit the game details and settings' > 'Settings' right after 'Sole Ownership' add 'Resign Button Active?' ?

I as a GM hate when communication fails. Especially when I cause it. I would NEVER activate automatic resigning because it's a massive communication liability.
jase
 admin, 3506 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Sun 18 Dec 2016
at 00:34
Re: The ability to resign from a game
I'm pretty sure it's well known that I don't code for laziness, and why should I?  I should spend hours and hours of my time (a feature like this would probably take 10-20 hours to code, test and implement) so you don't have to spend about 20 seconds of your time?  Thanks for throwing me under that bus!  So if this is being discussed because you'd rather have a button than to go through the "effort" of sending a PM to the GM, then we can summarise my response with one word; no.

That does, however, not address the issue of players who suddenly stop participating in a game without any warning.  I think when people vanish from a game there's three reasons;

  1. They can't be bothered (playing anymore / telling the GM).
  2. They are embarrassed / don't want to broach the subject.
  3. Real life gets in the way.

And...
  1. Button is not going to help (if they can't be bothered a button isn't going to change that).
  2. Button is going to help.
  3. Button is not going to help.

Only option 2 really seem to have a chance of this actually proving to be a boon, but is this really a thing?  If it is it's definitely pretty fringe and I, for one, have faith that our keyboard warriors (or wizards, as the case may be) can summon (wizard, remember) up the courage to post one small sentence.

So we're talking about a pretty contentious option being implemented for something that's rare, if it's really a concern at all.  I realise we've all strayed from the OPs comment, but I think that highlights that player attrition is the larger issue and we do have a method for handling disappearing GMs.

We're supposed to be a community, and one that's based around the written word at that, when did it become desirable to be so antisocial?