jase
 admin, 3556 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Sat 22 Apr 2017
at 12:11
Re: New site design
LoreGuard:
P.s. - Just tried replying to a thread where I am a GM and I noticed it forced me to type a new subject.  It seemed to not pick up the default subject from the prior message.

I'm actually thinking about removing the subject for each post.  98.1054444205959% (can you tell I've crunched the numbers?) of the time the subject is left unchanged so I'm thinking it's pretty redundant/pointless.

ninthbit (and yay for non-standard html!) has quite inconveniently contradicted me, but on those rare occasions that you do need some sort of title then there's a few ways to do that.  (c;
ninthbit
 member, 698 posts
 Steampunk Advocate
 My profile has goodies
Sat 22 Apr 2017
at 21:53
Re: New site design
In reply to jase (msg # 66):

To be fair, I only put in a subject because I'm using the responsive site (loving it) and it made me put in a subject.
DarkLightHitomi
 member, 1127 posts
Sun 23 Apr 2017
at 02:16
Re: New site design
I agree with removing the subject or perhaps making it optional. Actually, making it optional would be nice because then, instead of some small thing that impedes readability, it can remain unseen most of the time, but then be used as a heading when appropriate, such as during transitions from one scene or topic, or to note change in date when the story leaps ahead, or similar uses. Not that it is needed to do that but it could be used that way.
Skald
 moderator, 769 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Sun 23 Apr 2017
at 04:44
Re: New site design
+1 for removing subject.  Name the new thread once and then don't need it again.

With 98% of subjects never changing from the original title, I don't think it'd even be worth making it optional - as jase said, you can always begin a particular post with formatted text to denote the transition, eg:

Round 4

In the Temple

Stardate 2259.55

Or any/all of the above:

Stardate 2259.55 - In the Temple - Round 4
bigbadron
 moderator, 15345 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Sun 23 Apr 2017
at 05:57
Re: New site design
-1 for removing the subject.

If it's removed, will somebody also go back and edit in the little piece of formatted text in every post where I had previously changed the subject to denote a change of location, a new combat round, or incremental in-game time information?

eg: Round 3 round up to Round 4 round up.

eg: Dinomn/Lanth (0302) Date: 316-1107 13:05 becoming Dinomn/Lanth (0302) Date: 316-1107 13:20 then later switching to Dinomn/Lanth (0302) Date: 316-1107 13:30.

Or will older posts retain the subject line, while new ones have to do without it?

It's like the bio lines, they're essentially useless, except that some people found a use for them (displaying ongoing character information next to their posts).  Will they also be removed because they're "redundant/pointless"?

Keep the subject line - it is used in some games (including some very long-running ones).
Skald
 moderator, 771 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Sun 23 Apr 2017
at 06:09
Re: New site design
... I HATE backwards compatibility !  <grins>

A goodly point.

Depending on how the database is set up (and only jase knows that), it might be possible to do a one-off datafix to merge the old subject with the post.

Simple IF test (pardon my pseudocode) -> If NewSubject <> Old Subject then ThisPost = Bold(NewSubject) + NewLine + ThisPost

Could claw back a little bit disk space.  :>

Or if the database structure doesn't lend itself to that then making Subject optional might be our solution.
Flarelord
 member, 363 posts
Sun 23 Apr 2017
at 12:30
Re: New Site Design
Huh,I just found this, and am trying to post this response from the responsive site.

Anyway, interesting design. I have a few minor requests/curiosities: A) When i went to click Post a Reply, I had to go all the way back to the top of the page to do so :D  I kind of liked the permanent fixed header/footer, but that probably can't work with a 'responsive' site. 2) Similarly, I like full/adaptive width, like RPOL currently has, and I'm curious if that's an option, at all.  I think it might be... managable to get used to, but yeah. It's not going to be easy... I am not really a fan of the right hand sidebar full of buttons/functions.

Fortunately, at least it seems to work alright from my PS4, which is where I do half my posting (yay USB Keyboard)

Oddity: The Subject line was blank when I entered this page, and I got an Error! Please enter a subject. I wrote in the Re: New Site Design as it should be. Let's see how that works...
swordchucks
 member, 1385 posts
Mon 24 Apr 2017
at 15:18
Subjects and Sidebars
Alright, so I'd mainly messed with this on my phone, where the layout is very different.  As some are suggesting in this thread, I'm now posting a reply to this thread using the responsive site on my desktop :)

Anyway, having "post a reply" at the top right of a long thread isn't great.  I'd like to have a "post a reply" button down on the bottom where I am when I get done reading the thread.

The second item is the subject.  Would it be possible to do it the way that gmail does it and have it an option, but by default it goes to the last thing?  I do think it's useful to have posts be an option, but it's also something that only gets edited maybe 10% of the time, overall, so taking the focus off of it is probably fine.
LoreGuard
 member, 634 posts
Tue 25 Apr 2017
at 14:48
Subjects and Sidebars
Doing away with Subject! ?

But that was another 'game' in one of my game's OOC; to see how long it would take before people would notice that the subject had changed.  Made for some funny OOC conversations in that game.  How will we ever have fun in games.... oh... yeah... playing... sorry got side-tracked.

Anyway, I understand why some feel it is redundant, but I know it has been useful at times in games, and like BBR says, it would certainly be a loss to old game information unless there was some sort of accommodation to get that data back somehow.

Making it optional seems to certainly be the most flexible option, but I'd also understand how being optional might seem like too much coding work, but if considered viable, it seems like the better option.  It might be less work than trying to recover old subject data.

I do agree however, that when it isn't changing, it shouldn't really need to take up extra space on the screen since that can at time be a massive premium in cases like phones, and of course if possible, saving space in the database would be good too.  (although that space might not be able to be saved if it is an optional with a fixed width field)
Utsukushi
 member, 1415 posts
 I should really stay out
 of this, I know...but...
Tue 25 Apr 2017
at 16:48
Subjects and Sidebars
I am also a -1 on removing the Subject - mainly because we just thought of a use for it last night.  So, um, no, in my prior however-many-years-on-RPoL, I haven't used it and rarely even look at it, I agree.

But the new Chill system has this thing tracking a line of light and dark tokens, which the GM or players can `flip' to get various advantages or activate certain abilities.  And the only convenient place I can think to put that on RPoL, where everyone could see it, use it, and track it continually throughout a thread... is the Subject line, where it would work perfectly.

Now, obviously, that's a single system, it's new, and it's probably not worth writing a new feature for.  But it might be worth keeping an already-existing feature for.  Especially when it's such an open-ended feature as the Subject Line, where people can put all kinds of things.  I'm sure there are other games where it could be helpful.

...But having not seen a use for it until just now.. well, yeah, it could probably be optional.  Or, as Swordchucks says, only show when it changes.  That actually seems pretty ideal.  Sort of automatically brings it in if people are using it, and automatically lets it fade away if they aren't.  And draws attention to it when it changes, if, say, the GM is using it to track time-and-date, for example.
Flarelord
 member, 369 posts
Tue 25 Apr 2017
at 16:59
Subjects and Sidebars
My only issue with Subject is that having to retype the subject as you currently need to is incredibly inconvenient, if you don't mean to change it.  :D  This is likely a minor oversight and not a real issue. I'm all for keeping editable subject, but I just want it to default to the last reply's subject as it does on the normal site atm :D Again, probably just an oversight, I was mentioning the issue in case it was unnoticed.
Skald
 moderator, 774 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Wed 26 Apr 2017
at 11:57
Subjects and Sidebars
Pretty sure (in the 99.9999 etc percentile confidence range) that the current blank subject on the responsive site is one of the many things that haven't been done yet.  :>

Looks like we're leaning towards an optional line, though, which I think would result in the box being left blank deliberately.  Compulsory to fill it in for the first post in a new thread (cos that's going to be the new thread's title in the game menu), and after that, it's optional.

I see this as showing the subject on the first post and on any subsequent posts where someone types the subject in, EG

Post 1 - INITIAL SUBJECT  compulsory
Post 2 - <no subject>  subject field left blank
Post 3 - <no subject>  subject field left blank
Post 4 - NEW SUBJECT  shows on Post 4 header only
Post 5 - <no subject>  subject field left blank

Again, a data fix may be possible to tidy up old posts by iterating through all the posts and deleting a subject if it's the same as the previous post, so it drills down to the unique subject headings ... but that might take a while - we have a lot of historical post data.  Might end up just drawing a line and starting from then.  Assuming the optional subject option gets voted up and is possible.

Personally I don't need subject beyond thread title, but optional subject will produce nearly the same result (players can still type in subject in my nice tidy threads if they want to, but I'll try to control my OCD) so I can live with that.  :>
Utsukushi
 member, 1417 posts
 I should really stay out
 of this, I know...but...
Wed 26 Apr 2017
at 15:48
Subjects and Sidebars
For what I see it being useful for, it has to copy down automatically from the last post, like it does now. (Well, like it does now on the real RPoL, I mean, not the way it doesn't currently on the responsive site, obviously.)  So if we want it optional, I'd suggest maybe when a Thread is first created, there be, like, a "Persistent Subject?" tickbox next to it, or something.  That way if there IS a Subject, it continues to work the way it always has and the way people will expect it to, but if you don't want it, you can make it go away.
horus
 member, 126 posts
 Wayfarer of the
 Western Wastes
Wed 26 Apr 2017
at 15:57
Re: Subjects and Sidebars
Skald:
{snipped:  stuff I'm not replying to}

I see this as showing the subject on the first post and on any subsequent posts where someone types the subject in, EG

Post 1 - INITIAL SUBJECT  compulsory
Post 2 - <no subject>  subject field left blank
Post 3 - <no subject>  subject field left blank
Post 4 - NEW SUBJECT  shows on Post 4 header only
Post 5 - <no subject>  subject field left blank


Post 4- NEW SUBJECT shows on Post 4 header and header of all subsequent replies to Post 4 presently.  Are you aiming to change that?

The Subject field is a rudimentary organizational tool that I'd sorely miss were it removed.
Low Key
 member, 224 posts
Wed 26 Apr 2017
at 16:31
Re: Subjects and Sidebars
quote:
For what I see it being useful for, it has to copy down automatically from the last post, like it does now. (Well, like it does now on the real RPoL, I mean, not the way it doesn't currently on the responsive site, obviously.)


I'm posting this from the responsive site, and the subject behaves like it always used to for me.
I hit 'reply', the subject line is populated, and I can either leave it (which I've done) or I could change it if I wanted.

I use the 'reply' link in the top corner of a message, rather than the 'reply to this thread' from the drop down menu. Both out of habit, and because once I've scrolled all the way down to the bottom to read the latest post I don't want to scroll all the way back to the top, to open a menu, to pick an option when I can just hit the link that's right here for me.
LoreGuard
 member, 635 posts
Wed 26 Apr 2017
at 19:53
Re: Subjects and Sidebars
Flarelord:
My only issue with Subject is that having to retype the subject as you currently need to is incredibly inconvenient, if you don't mean to change it.  :D  This is likely a minor oversight and not a real issue...

At present, from my experience, if you click on the Reply (or quote like this) link inside a specific post, it carries the subject line through for you automatically.  Clicking on the Post a reply on the side does seem to behave the other way, however, as you mention.

This message was last edited by the user at 19:58, Wed 26 Apr.

LoreGuard
 member, 636 posts
Wed 26 Apr 2017
at 20:16
Maps and Images
Question, would there potentially be inclusion/use of SVG tags and options in our maps or images?

I've seen how it can be used to generate an 'imagespace' and I'm wondering if it might open up a possibility to have a feature that could be developed to allow the GM or potentially even players to specify locations on a map for their 'official rpol profile picture' to be overlay-ed on the base map image instead of the gm having to re-create the image each time there is movement.
DarkLightHitomi
 member, 1132 posts
Thu 27 Apr 2017
at 06:11
Maps and Images
What are svg tags?
Skald
 moderator, 775 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Thu 27 Apr 2017
at 13:48
Maps and Images
<readreadread> Which gives us three variations on the theme:

1) Persistent Subject - as now (or we could call it Compulsory Subject)

2) Thread title only - Subject only appears on first post

3) Optional Subject - Compulsory for first post, field blanked and only shown in subsequent post headers when completed


Which can be done by adding |X| Persistent subject check box on first post and having optional subject field.


For 1) tick Persistent subject and for subsequent posts, subject field is prefilled with last subject and is compulsory.

For 2) don't tick Persistent subject and for subsequent posts, subject field is not prefilled and left blank and therefore doesn't show in post headers.

For 3) don't tick Persistent subject and for subsequent posts, subject field is not prefilled and only completed when you want a new subject header to appear on a post.

Covers both existing and proposed new functionality.  Also means that existing threads stay exactly as they are now, with no data conversion necessary.

I'd vote for that !  ;>


SVG tags ... if it helps, Mr Google says that "SVG is a language for describing 2D graphics in XML. Canvas draws 2D graphics, on the fly (with a JavaScript). SVG is XML based, which means that every element is available within the SVG DOM. You can attach JavaScript event handlers for an element."  Whatever that means.  But I'm thinking that won't be supported as RPoL has deliberately stayed away from Javascript.
horus
 member, 129 posts
 Wayfarer of the
 Western Wastes
Thu 27 Apr 2017
at 21:01
Maps and Images
In reply to Skald (msg # 84):

Wow... and here I'd thought that SVG stood for Scaleable Vector Graphics such as are produced by InkScape, Visio, Abode Illustrator, etc.

I had no idea this was being accomplished within an XML framework.  If it's XML another scripting language (such as PHP or Perl) could be used to do the scripting.  I don't think anything ties us to Javascript (except maybe predefined libraries that might make it easier.)

I gotta go dig on this now - it might solve another problem I've been working on.

UPDATE:  Potentially Useful Link:
Add the Graphics Power of SVG to PHP

Thanks!

This message was last edited by the user at 21:34, Thu 27 Apr.

jase
 admin, 3558 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Fri 28 Apr 2017
at 06:12
Maps and Images
I'm not keen on making an option on how the subject behaves.  An option for under 2% utilisation seems like a waste.  If we can't agree that the subject is optional (or redundant) then I'd say it'll have to stay as mandatory.  Personally I have nothing against having a subject, I just don't see why we have to Re:iterate it adnauseum!

As for SVG, yes they are Scaleable Vector Graphics.  Yes they are, underneath, XML.  But everything's something under the hood.  They're a great way of having a dynamically sized image.  Inside the XML you might say "there's a line that's 100 pixels in length" but when you render you can make it twice as large or twice as small, and it'll draw the line as either 200 or 50 pixels.  It doesn't resize the image, it recalculates how the entire image is rendered, and I think that's the power of SVGs.

They're more orientated around geometrical shapes and so do have some limitations on what you can draw with them, but they're very powerful (and normally very efficient).

If you're on the responsive site you're seeing one already up the top left -- the impossible cube.  Visit http://responsive.rpol.net/images/impossible_cube.svg, the image will be huge (but it's scaleable, remember) but view the source and you'll see only 39 lines of XML.  That's the entire image and I can make it 100 pixels wide or 10,000 without any loss in fidelity.
Skald
 moderator, 776 posts
 Whatever it is,
 I'm against it
Sat 29 Apr 2017
at 04:57
Maps and Images
Subject: h'mmm ... since we can do our own quasi-subject heading with bold/underline,
I guess it comes down to how those existing posts that do have different subjects would be handled - could a data conversion be done to format them appropriately and tack them on to the related post ?

SVG: <grrins> Mr Google thanks you, horus.  I of course know nothing about 'em !  ;>
LoreGuard
 member, 637 posts
Mon 1 May 2017
at 17:15
Maps and Images
I wasn't just talking about using SVG typed images, which I had presumed already would have been an option, but was wondering if you were considering use of the SVG tag in HTML5.  Not in order to necessarily tie javascript in, but to allow you to use some of its sizing controls, and image drawing aspects within web pages.  [which if you look at my example, there is and example of pulling a PNG image in as a drawn element in the below page.

I wasn't sure how much of HTML5 aspects you were going to consider for use in the new site.  [hence hey I'm asking here]

Also note, the code below would expect to find an example.png file in the same folder as the html file.



<html>
<head>
<style>
body {
    background-color: linen;
}

h1 {
    color: maroon;
    margin-left: 40px;

}
svg circle.art {fill : gold}
svg text { stroke : blue }
svg text.Station { stroke : red }
svg text.Person { stroke : purple}

</style>

</head>
<body>
<svg  xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" version="1.1" width=600 height=600>
<circle class=art cx=300 cy=300 r=250   />
<image height=1403 width= 1073 xlink:href='Example.png' />
<svg x=100 y=100 height=100 width=100>
<circle class=marker cx='50' cy='20' r='10' fill='red' stroke='blue' stroke-width='5'/>
<text Class=Station text-anchor='middle' x=50 y=50 align=center
>Station</text>
<text Class=Person text-anchor='middle' x=50 y=65 align=center
>New Hope</text>
</svg>
</svg>
</body>
</html>
Mad Mick
 member, 894 posts
 Ain't sayin nothin
 Got nothin to say
Thu 11 May 2017
at 09:35
Maps and Images
I've been using the Reply link in the bottom message to post replies in the thread.  I'm on the responsive site and using my iPhone.  I do miss the Reply to Topic button at the bottom of the thread in the current version of RPOL, though.
jase
 admin, 3561 posts
 Cogito, ergo procuro.
 Carpe stultus!
Thu 11 May 2017
at 11:28
Maps and Images
In reply to Mad Mick (msg # 89):

That'll come.  I've noticed a few functionality annoyances myself.


Regarding SVG, I don't think allowing the XML code for SVG within an actual message (i.e. what you typed actually working) is going to work, there's just so much xml/html there to try and account for an allow.  I think in opening messages up to be able to have SVG would also end up pretty much allowing any xml/html code.  I think good ol' "img src" is still the way to go.