Okay, guys, since the other thread got a little wild, here's the new one.

Girlfriend broke up with me last friday, got a new one yesterday.

Anyway, 'sup nat!

Wow Max, what a fascinating love life you have.

Care to share some more with us all?

His love life is rather trite, in my opinion.

...speaking fo which, did you guys hear about that principle in san francisco or something that expelled two students for wearing american flag t-shirts on cinco de mayo day?

Nope, that kind of news doesn't exactly get so far around here.

And I'm sure Pitcarn was being sarcastic. Dry wit. It's an Australian thing.

Only very vaguely, Ruse. Weird. The situation in Arizona and near is so effed up right now. I really hope the state gets enough boycotts against it that they rescind that ridiculous law. The fact that more state legislatures are considering similar laws is beyond stupid.

Says the Canadian :P

Says the Canadian who could illegally go to Arizona for cheap work, and not be bothered by the law because I'm white, yeah. :P

We need to work on our immigration laws to make them more efficient in dealing with refugees, but we're not making draconian laws that essentially force police forces to use racial profiling or get sued by a citizen who doesn't think they're doing enough.

Why is this even a contest?

Canada wins, hands down, every time.

Well, we are the biggest. (So long as we keep Quebec.) But thanks for the vote!

I was raised for a time in Canada. And I spent some time in America. The former is much greater.

At the same time, we have way too many illegals in this country. What bothers me the most is they don't pay taxes, and that they bring with them higher crime rates - not just caused y them but also against them.

I really dislike racial profiling, but I very much would like something to be done to get some mass-deportation in progress. I guess you could say I'm feeling torn about the matter, as my normally super-libral stance on things is tugging a bit more rightwise than is normal for me, as I have mixed feelings about the whole situation of illegal immigrants.

I definitl think that principle needs to be fired though - what he did was unconstitutional and, in my opinion, treasonous. Cinco de Mayo or no, there should never be any day of the year where it is any LESS acceptable to display our american flag! This is coming from someone who is pro-choice and anti-military, so that should say a lot about how fucked up the situation is on the west coast, as it bothered me this much.

Thanks for listening. :)

You're an anti-military, pro-choice fella who just happens to support deportation?

This is interesting.

OK

So MD has expressed that there were concerns about my Ladybots.

Fitst of all you should know that I DO RL RESEARCH ON ALL MY MEASUREMENTS AND TECHNOLOGY. I try to keep it as real as possible truth me. I spent HOURS doing that to make sure I got it right.

Part 1: Lesson in size and Volume
Go look up 1 nanometer(nm)... its a fucking small measurement, it takes 1000 nanometers to make a micrometer. 1 Nanobot fits in a 100x100x100 nm space... also known as 100 cubic nm. This is about as small as nanobots go. The nanobots heads destroy 1 cubic nm of energy in less than a second, but it can use that raw E=MC energy (with a shitload wasted in control trust me) to transmute up to 100 cubic nm into a certain form and mundane material.

Now it was said that they replicate at 6*2^x where x is the next generation. Now lets say that I can only produce 1,000,000,000,000 per minute.

Now some people go OMFG 1 trillion thats huge... well actually no.
1,000,000,000,000 x 100 cubic nm is 1,000,000,000,000,000 cubic nm. Now your first instinct is 1 quadrillion cubic cm can just be divided by 1,000,000,000 to get how many cubic meters... this is WRONG. You forget that this is CUBIC which means VOLUME. Even with 1 trillion that is only 0.001 cubic millimeters... you guys know how much a mm is right... you can see a cubic mm, that means I will have to make 1 trillion 1000 times... just to make 1 cubic mm of nanobots. Which would take me 16 hours game time.

Case in point NANOBOTS ARE SMALL, and basically remember volume wise 100 cubic cm does not make 1 cubic meter... 1,000,000 cubic cm (100x100x100) to make 1 cubic meter.

seriously Google it:
copy and paste this into Google
1000000000000000 cubic nanometers in cubic meters
1000000000000000 cubic nanometers in cubic millimeters

Part 2: Nanobots in Theo
Nanotechnology is already rampant in theogenesis. Nanobots are used in diamond rifled to make the ammo! Nat had the valley anti-nanobot warded earlier to prevent I assume anti-nanobot infestation. But of course there ALWAYS is a balance in this game (Nat wouldn't overpower things would he). I'm sure there are tons of technological means to get rid of nanobots as well as magical and other supernatural to counteract nanobots. They are NOT the unstoppable doomsday force in our fiction movies.
Things that would actually affect Nanobots- regular Explosives, EMPs, bullets (they kill more as they fly through the cloud than they would from eating the bullet).

Part 3: Anik's Nanobots
1- Replication is limited to 10 cubic cm per minute within a couple feet of Anik...
2- The nanobots are not true nanobots... they are in fact more like tiny myth crafted beings with nano-components.
3- EVERYTHING IS DONE THROUGH THE GM, Jesus I'm not Metatron trying to bully him into allowing some super-powered... these are my CRAFTING HELPERS.

The superweapon comes later :P

Yea, I'm fucked up. :(

Seriously, I am. But that's how I feel and I just can't lie to myself anymore.

Oh well. I disagree with you politically on some points but we are who we are.

Im not reading that.

I know. :(

For the most part, I am liberal both fiscally and socially. I do have my occasional conservative moments, but I have them for what I perceive to be the greater good.

Like as far as illegals go, for instance, I feel for their plight but the status quo is unnacceptable to me. If you want to come into the country, go to Ellis Island like everyone else. But the increased crime rate, the littering (don't get me started on that please), and especially the not paying taxes thing really rubs me the wrong way.

I just hope you don't think any less of me for being honest about how I feel. I know that you're a rather left-leaning guy yourself, and you and I share more political views than we don't, I assure you. Like, I'm also pro-gay, pro-race, pro-education, pro-separation of church and state, pro-sex ed (omg don't get me started on abstinence only educaton), and so on.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:42, Tue 11 May 2010.

Oh and Anik, to support what you wrote, there is also star Trek. Especially Voyager and 7 of 9.

The Defense rests.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:43, Tue 11 May 2010.

Oh, my "that's interesting" wasn't meant to show my disdain for your political views, Ruse. It should be taken literally - it interested me. Unless you're a Nazi or a Socialist (Communists are okay) then I really can't hate you on your political views. And yeah, we do share a lot which is why that surprised me.

And you know what? When we get right down to it the illegal immigrant situation in America is quite different to the one we have down here in Aus. So perhaps I can't judge.

Oh, hang on, sure I can. That principal was a fucking idiot.

I read it, and found it cool because I recently had to deal with nanometers in science class >.< So. So. Tiny.
----
 I only date for fun, because I like the person. I'm not serious about anything. What do you mean by trite, though?

I agree with you on the matter of the principal, assuming that's the whole story. If, for instance, they had spread word that they were going to be wearing their shirts as a sign for "illegals to get out" or "it's our country, not yours" sentiment, then I can understand them being suspended, possibly worse if there was a pattern of behaviour. If they just wanted to show their pride in their country, then yeah, that's fine. I might have had a talk with the school about why cinqo de mayo and respecting other cultures is important, but they shouldn't have been punished over it.

Now, to the situation in general, yes, that's a problem. Since the bill was passed, I've been reading a lot of pro and con articles. Learned statistics like how the crime rate at border towns are the same as the crime rate of the rest of the state. There hadn't been a murder by an undocumented worker in the state in 10 years prior to the bill. There are some serious issues with vandalism and people moving through other people's land. The vast majority of violence associated with drugs stays south of the border (much easier to attack the source of the drugs than to try to stop every smuggler once they're over the border and acting independently).

The big problem I have with the law is that it doesn't do anything to prevent the situations it was supposedly created to fix. Drug smugglers caught are already jailed or deported if they're caught. There's no funding whatsoever for police training. Plus, it allows immediate jailing if they don't have the proper papers. The concern is, if you're darker skinned, even if you're fifth generation American, you could be stopped, asked for papers (Do you carry a birth certificate or passport everywhere you go? Do you always carry your driver's license when you go for a jog or bike ride?), and put in jail if you don't have any with you.

There is a provision in the law that says that if a citizen doesn't think the police are enforcing the law adequately, they can sue the community. Think about it. If you think someone's an illegal immigrant (or undocumented worker), and the police don't do anything about it, you can sue them. And if the police don't do the job they're not trained for correctly, they can get sued too. Sounds like a free pay day for a lot of people, at the expense of the forces who should be focusing on taking on the more disruptive crimes.

Anytime people express concerns about racial profiling, it's shrugged off by the people who passed the law. But when someone suggests a way to keep it constitutional and not based on race, they immediately say it's not necessary. I watched an interview where the state senator who designed the law was on with the hispanic vice-mayor of Phoenix. The vice-mayor suggested that getting police to ask every single person they stopped for proof of citizenship was a good way to keep things constitutional and the police from being sued, the senator immediately suggested it was ridiculous and unnecessary, since the law doesn't allow racial profiling. And just the way he treated the vice-mayor made my skin crawl.

Phew, long rant. Thank you for listening.


EDIT: And, wow, the conversation moved quickly. Ruse, I'm not trying to attack you on this. More expressing my view (and frustration) in regards to the specific laws, and maybe help people learn a little more about the situation. I know I'm learning more about it even now.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:58, Tue 11 May 2010.

Nat: I didn't know Austrailia had immigration issues. I mean it's in the middle of nowhere, lol!

But yes, illegal alienism is a HUGE issue here in the states. It's had a tremendous impact on this country, both good and bad (but a lot is bad).

Oh and why do you like communists but not socialists? I always thought socialism was one of the most balanced and liberal government forms - communism with a tad of private property. Or is your issue that you'd like things to go all the way to communism?

Max: Go to www.dictionary.com and type in trite. That will give you the definition.

Hirsu: I live in the biggest city in my state. We have a looooooooooot of illegals here, I'm sure of it. I can see the changes to my own neighborhood where I lived since we moved there when I was 10...and that is like 15 or 16 years ago now. My neighborhood is now filled with people who could fit the profile of what's going on in arizona. You should see the crime and the sheer garbage and litter those people just casually toss onto the ground? The neighborhood did NOT look like that 15 years ago. It is the same in primarily-hispanic neighborhoods too.

I don't know if that is a behavior they got from living in the shithole they call Mexico, but I am disgusted and appaled that they would being that sort of thing up here and trash up our living space. (and for the record I acknowledge people of all backgrounds litter. I am not pointing out a specific background on purpose, so cross that thought from your mind before it even appears)

And on top of it is all the money that we lose by hosting so many illegals. They don't pay taxes, but they can get into our schools and onto our public assistance programs. They bring crime into the area, don't help the economy, and go absolutely NUTS on days like cinco de Mayo (you should see how crazy they get here on that day)

Now, that is the basis of my support for deportation. Anything that can get the authorities into their houses to demand proof of citizenship or bust is in my favor.

What I - like you - do NOT support is racial profiling. This is why I do not fully support the arizona law (versus my current lukewarm stance). I'd rather they find a way where they can just ask for proof of citizenship, and if a person says no then they get a chance to be escorted to their home to get it. I mean every citizen has a social security number so you could tell that to the police and they could run it on their computer or something. Better yet, make it so that anyone who does not return census data can be investigated. There are other ways to do this, which is where we agree, but I do agree that the status quo is too favorable to illegals, and they need to know that we will not tolerate this anymore. Either go to ellis island like everyone else, or get out.

As for the flags on shirts thing...to be quite honest, I don't care why the kids wore them. It absolutely disgusts me that ANY public official like a principal can and would every say wearing an american flag is somehow wrong. In our country. where the flag belongs. It is one thing if the boys were teasing the hispanics (and even then that is NOT worth expulsion, maybe suspension tops because let's face it kids tease each other all the time, so picking out the hispanic issue is reverse-discrimination). However, if they weren't then by golly they did not do anything wrong. The 5th of may is NOT any less an american day than the other 364 days of the year. The principal should be fired and the boys re-instated.

Whew! Sorry for the reverse-rant. (and no I'm not making any personal attacks. The conversation stops when that happens)

EDIT: Just saw your edit. I know you're not trying to get personal. I think it's mutually frustrating for both of us, actually.
This message was last edited by the player at 18:28, Tue 11 May 2010.

Glad that we understand each other.

I'm not sure how much I want police to be able to go into people's homes without a warrant. The problem is exceptions to that have been used to disproportionately affect people of colour in the past. Which is another reason this law is getting a lot of flack. It's proponents may disagree, but history tends to be on the side where a law which seems to deliberately target a certain race will be used to target that race.

For the taxes thing, they could pay taxes if they could get paid for legitimate work. People don't illegally immigrate for fun. Generally, they leave because they can't stay where they are. If you lived in Mexico, specifically near the border where the drug violence is at its worst, wouldn't you think a fence a small obstacle to get out of a situation where you could get shot any day? Or if the choice for a job is work in a drug factory, or prostitution, wouldn't you prefer to sneak across the border to work as a maid or taxi driver? If they had a path to apply for legal citizenship, I'm sure a large percentage would take it, and pay taxes just like everyone else. Right now, if they did pay taxes, chances are they make such a low amount of money they wouldn't pay anything anyways.

As for the poverty and crime rates, I'm going to say that's not exactly their fault. Poverty is systemic. It's is rarely the fault of the poor person that they are poor. Frankly, giving their children an education is one of the best ways to break that cycle of poverty. Organized crime (including gangs), however, have every incentive not to allow that to happen, and can be very influential in the lives of the poor. The fact that a lot of education systems give less resources to poorer areas (in a lot of western countries, not singling out America for this one) only makes the job more difficult.

As for going nuts, Spring Break, or if you prefer, St. Patrick's Day. I'm pretty sure we priveleged people leave a huge mess on those days too. Different groups celebrate in different ways, just because you don't think it's a big deal doesn't make it not a big deal to others.

I agree that something needs to be done. A legal path to citizenship should be available. Undocumented workers should be embraced by the country, and allowed to participate just like any other, including paying taxes, abiding the laws and everything else. Round up the drug dealers, the criminals, and whatever else, and deport them, sure. But it should be done through the normal laws. This law is a bigger danger to the harmless people than it is to anyone who is dangerous.