Sash/Jo/BlairBoys
Sotalia: I read the end of joandtheboys and had an epiphany
I know who Jo ends up with and why
not that I'm going to tell you
Debra: you're so mean.
Sotalia: but I know for 100% certainty
Debra: just make sure you write it down so you don't forget before we get there.
I can't remember what it was, but I remember something else you were keeping secret and things didn't finish and I asked you about it later and you had no idea anymore.
Sotalia: if you give me a compelling enough reason to tell you I will XD
Debra: well, the only reason I can think of for telling me, is so I can work on timeline stuff to figure out how old oops baby is.
Sotalia: do you really want to know or is it a "I want to know but I really don't but I really do" kind of thing?
Debra: somewhere in between. it's been 5 or so years since we started writing them. It would be nice to know the "end"
Sotalia: ok so then I'll just torture you by giving you clues and making you figure it out lol
the revelation goes back to Jo and who she gelled with in Monterey
and who she didn't
and then I had to confirm some things by reading the end
Debra: specific people in monterey or just general categories?
Sotalia: specific people
specifically my specific people
Debra: like diora and trey vs malcolm and gia?
Sotalia: sort of, but not the crazy ones
Debra: I was trying to think of your characters that she didn't get along with and those were the only two I could think of.
Sotalia: Ah. It's less who she didn't get along with, and more who she got along with *better*
She and Trey were buds, got along fantastically. And I suspect that if it weren't for other people getting into the mix, they would have ended up together
Debra: I suspect that as well.
Sotalia: She also got along with Marco. They nearly did hook up. They *could* have ended up together... but they didn't.
Now, there were extenuating circumstances that went along with their brief relationship. Mainly, they were both grieving and the timing wasn't that great.
Debra: yes
Sotalia: But, I also wonder if that would have made a difference had it been Trey instead of Marco
Debra: I don't know that it would. mostly, she trusted trey more than marco.
she's definitely ending up with ash. as soon as you said marco and trey, I started to see how much they both have in common with the blair brothers.
Sotalia: :D
that's exactly what gave me the aha moment
Debra: right down to her being attracted to marco physically but annoyed by him personally when they first met.
Sotalia: I thought, she would have most definitely ended up with Trey had they had the opportunity. And the reason is because Trey is a goofy, light-hearted guy who doesn't mind being dominated by his woman. Marco, on the other hand, is more serious, more dark. And he hates being dominated.
Debra: even if you go non-romantic (sort of) and bring in diora, she almost immediately connects with the black sheep.
Sotalia: yes
Debra: she *can* connect with the responsible ones, but it takes a hell of a lot longer and isn't as strong.
Sotalia: So personality-wise, she connected with Ash almost instantly. Logan took a while for her to warm up to, and re-reading the end, she *still* hadn't connected with him completely.
But she never lost it with Ash
and even more compelling is his instant connection with Sash
they connected even quicker and deeper than he and Jorah
which would intensify how badly his absence would affect her as a child
And the final piece is Logan
I can keep that part to myself if you wish
Debra: no. I'm intensely curious now.
Sotalia: okay
Logan is a lot more serious and down-to-earth, but he's also much more of a romantic.
He's the marriage-2.5 kids-house-with-a-white-picket-fence-and-two-dogs-and-a-cat-kind-of-guy
He took over his father's business after he died with no hesitation. He works hard to keep that business. He stresses over losing it.
Debra: yes. staying with jo would eventually be a happiness-compromise for him.
Sotalia: He's the kind of man who needs to be stable and secure
Jo doesn't want the same things. That wouldn't necessarily be a deal-breaker for him.
But what is a deal-breaker is when he realizes that Jo and Ash have a deeper connection than he and Jo do
He loves Jo, he loves his brother
Deep down, he knows Jo can't give him the stability and security he craves
So he will step aside and break up with Jo so that she and Ash can have a go at it
The drawback is that Ash doesn't require stability so it's easier for him to be gone for long periods of time
Debra: this is funny to me since originally, you expected it to go the other way
Sotalia: I thought it would but after realizing about Jo and Trey and Jo and Marco, I realized that she and Logan wouldn't last long
Debra: you were so sure she'd end up with logan until we got into it all
Sotalia: She will end up with Logan
just not long-term
Debra: true
Sotalia: but yes, I originally thought she might end up with Logan. Then I wasn't sure anymore.
I re-read him playing with Sash, too, and realized that Logan never connected at all with her
Ash got on the floor and played monster-smash with her
Debra: I think he enjoyed it more than she did.
Sotalia: hahaha
Debra: but even though logan was able to do the fairy water thing, that didn't require him to actually connect with her.
Sotalia: and he didn't. he likened it to a bargaining tool
not that he didn't like Sash, he just didn't connect with her
Interestingly enough, Ash would also have stepped aside for Logan
in fact, that was the original plan
Debra: he technically did. when he came back and found out they were together and he chose not to throw a fit and demand that she ditch logan for him.
Sotalia: true
and by the end of the rp, he'd gotten a job in Scotland, too
so even without all the personality and romantic stuff, he's in a better position to be the "abandoner"
Debra: so basically, we just have to figure out how long logan and jo would last in order to plug in the oops baby into the situation.
the oops baby is somewhat tricky just because we have to keep in mind Jo's age when we're figuring it out.
Sotalia: you think the oops baby is logan's and not ash's?
that would make the situation even more interesting
Debra: well, I wasn't really thinking that it was logan's rather than ash's. though, for a tiny moment, I considered how complicated it would be if she ended up sleeping with both brothers close enough that they wouldn't be sure who the father was. like, breakup sex and then comfort sex and then she's knocked up and who knows? but there'd be no real resolution to that. because as twins, there would be no way to determine which of them was the father with a paternity test.
so that's maybe *too* complicated.
Sotalia: well that wasn't my thought when I said that but that would definitely be very complicated
Debra: I was just thinking we need to know how long jo and logan last because that tells us a minimum age that sash would be when the oops baby came along.
Sotalia: I was thinking of that too
Debra: if they're together 5 years, she's minimum 7 or 8. If they're together 10 years, she's almost an adult (and I'm not sure Jo would still be fertile or if she was, it would definitely be a high-risk pregnancy)
Sotalia: I don't think it would be 10 years though
Debra: me neither. it was just a round number.
Sotalia: I'd say he'd know within 2 years
another year-ish to decide whether to leave
Ash won't be a big presence in the US because he won't have any reason to come back
of course if Logan's going to step aside, maybe he doesn't figure it out and try to decide
maybe Ash comes back for some reason and he realizes it then
in any case, I'm saying 2-ish years before Ash is back in the picture
Debra: okay.
Sotalia: Once he does, once he knows there's a reason to be in the US, he'll start fighting to come back. It'll take a bit to get to come back
how old is Jo at the point of Ash & Logan?
Debra: she was, I think 27 when she went to srp. So she would have been 28 when she had Sash. That would make her 30 when she met them.
So we've got a good decade to work with. though,they consider pregnancies with mothers 35+ to be high risk. But that just gives him another reason to stay put with the new baby. If Jo ends up on bed rest or something, she'd need him there, rather than being okay with him off somewhere else.
I definitely want Sash to be close to 10 (or older) for the oops baby.
It needs to be a big enough gap to make it feel almost like two families. and I know I feel more like Loris is my kid than my sister (though she feels more like my sister the older she gets).
I was 11 when she was born.
I totally have this image in my head of Mark meeting Sash's family and she's all "This is my mom's other kid," and then he's like "Uh, wouldn't that make her your sister?" And her response is "Nah. She's got a different dad."
Sotalia: Ok, so it looks like the wait for an immigration visa averages around 6 years for professionals with degrees, if they have a company that is willing to sponsor them. So with the 2-3 years with Logan, that places it around 9-ish years until he's able to remain in the US. (I know actual times vary but we'll go with the average)
Logan will hire him back once he knows
so once he's able to come back with the immigration visa, that will be cause for celebration
then Hai Oops Baby!!
Debra: our poor characters are just never allowed to celebrate.
Sotalia: hahaha
Debra: isn't that how Klarissa came along?
Sotalia: probably. and Claudia I think
Debra: claudia was celebration plus antibiotics
Sotalia: so in the intervening 6 years, his absences will be because he can only get short-term visas
then 6-month work visas until he can get an immigration visa
but Sash, being so young, won't understand that
Debra: ah. bureaucracy. you make it so easy to make life difficult for our characters.
Sotalia: hahaha
better than the 24 years it takes for the average, non-descript Josef to get an immigration visa
so after he finally gets his immigration visa, he and Jo will celebrate. Oops baby comes and now Sash thinks he's only staying because of his baby. She'll be old enough to make that faulty connection but still too young to understand the real reason why.
Debra: or too angry to believe them when they tell her the reason why
Sotalia: so now Sash has daddy issues and daddy abandonment issues (abandoned by three fathers, no less), she'll be at the right age for it to cause some sexuality issues, sibling jealousy, and whatever else comes along
anger issues
you know, we make terrific dysfunctional soups
Debra: and all of that without Jo having to be a bad mom.
Sotalia: and without Ash having to be a bad father-figure
Debra: Jo could be June Cleaver in that situation and Sash still gets to be a mess.
Sotalia: hahaha
it's interesting then that she ends up falling for a guy who also has immigration issues
and daddy issues
Debra: hahah
Sotalia: it's like she's dating a really angry Ash
Debra: only she's willing to marry him.
no waiting around for 6 years for her man to be with her in the US
Sotalia: maybe because deep down she's starting to believe the story and wants to punish her mother for not marrying Ash to make it easier
because with marriage, he would have gotten his immigration visa within a year
Debra: though, I'm imagining how lovely it would be to sit at their family reunions. scottish accent over here, italian over there. . . sounds like a great time.
Sotalia: hahahaha
Debra: 1 yr versus 6 yrs is a huge difference. especially for a kid.
and since she never met her dad, she wouldn't understand Jo's insistence on keeping him as her only husband.
after a few years, I think even Jo would start to question it. Since getting married doesn't necessarily mean changing your name. But she's just traditional enough that she wouldn't marry him without changing it, and keeping Sassy's name is 90%of the reason she doesn't want to get married again.
Sotalia: And Ash wouldn't push it because marriage isn't a priority
Debra: it's been a good night. I understand sash so much better
Sotalia: yay!
Debra: I hate when my characters behave in ways I don't understand.
even if the reasons she acted that way had more to do with me not knowing enough about her history or her, rather than actually because I didn't understand.
