This thread is for Out-of-character discussions.

Some information has been added to the Setting and Background thread.

Additionally, I'll try to get a thread up about the various navies and merchant lines this weekend.

I know I'm putting up a lot to read.  Please don't feel compelled to digest it all, I'm just trying to provide some texture since it is an OTU setting.

Just to give a quick update, five players are well into chargen at this point.  A couple still have to purchase gear and I know the group is still finalizing connections, but we're coming into focus.  I am very pleased with the mix of skills and interesting backgrounds in the group.

As far as crewing the ship, the positions seem pretty clear as most players have skill 2-3 in one position with little direct competition from other players.  We have:

Pilot - Danica
Astrogator - Jack
Purser/Steward - Hayden
Medic - Dr. Jones
TBD - Bertrand

The group will probably need 2-3 redshirts for engineers and gunners, so there will be a hiring opportunity on Alsace.

We have a sixth player as well, but RL is limiting his participation at the moment.  If necessary, we'll start and have him join the group a little later.

Also, players can start looking at the different skill packages in the Core rules (pg 38) and discussing which package the group might want.

I'd vote for the Starship Package.  Ship skills seem to be where we are the weakest.  And at these Tech Levels, we can not depend on automation to carry the load.  Running this size ship is going to require a fair number of people with starship skills.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:55, Mon 24 Jan 2011.

I'll second the Starship Package.  Danica has 3 of the 8 skills there (all of which we will need if we are spending a lot of time shipboard) at level 1+.  She also has Mechanic/0, but would love to have any of the other skills in the package.  And honestly, even Pilot() and Engineer() as cascades (requiring a specialization) could be taken by her - though it is like more efficient and effective for someone else to take those.

The Starship package is the only one that has Engineer() - so, if we need that, people will either need to spend connection skills getting/boosting that or from the package (the latter is limited, since it is only level 1 (so, probably best as backup).  I believe that a number of us have Engineer (electronics) at level 1 or higher - so, we could be back-up engineers in a pinch.  But only in a pinch.

If not the Starship package, then Explorer and Traveller packages (probably in that order) would like be next on my list as helping to shore up any perceived shortcomings.

Why is it so hard to find a good picture on this board!  GRRRRRR...

All I want is a picture of a 38 year old guy, with a nice beard, who looks like he wouldn't get his ass kicked in a belter bar, while also looking like the kind of guy who could serve drinks to a Duke.  Come on people, is that so hard?!

I may go with this... tough looking guy, full but well kept beard, wearing some kind of ship's uniform with formal hat to make him seem trustworthy and respectable.  This may be as good as it's going to get.

Both Starship and Traveller have Gunner() 1 - which is probably the most lacking (3 turrets currently).

Other skills are basically backup - starship Engineer specialties being the one we currently have no >0 skill levels, IIRC.  (Doc has +1 Edu/Int)

Dr. Jones is not a fighter (of the injure a sophont type) - so anything that might help in a support role (and unlikely to be wanted by others), in the following order:
  Starship - Astrogation, Pilot(any), Engineer(has Electronics/2)
  Traveller - Stealth, Persuade or Comms (upgrade)

---

Yeah - finding a pic can be a real pain.  I just wanted a simple doctor... the best matches, the images were fuzzy/dark.  Choose Harrison Ford because of Indiana Jones ("You cheat Dr. Jones...") and seeing him recently as a medical researcher in Extraordinary Measures.

Saw one or two that might fit for you - are you wanting a full beard?

One of the mods has a site that shows all the pics in broad categories (up to a certain date) - I'll try to find the link.

Try http://www.revelcity.com/current_-_male_gallery.htm

Naming of portraits is formated like gggNNN where NNN can be used to find the page number = NNN/18 and ggg is an abbreviation for the group (i.e. mmc -> modern male casual or the like).

Hope that helps.

I'd vote Starship Package as well - seems we're sorely lacking any Engineering skill.

Jack's got Astrogation and Sensors, with Comms-0.

I'd be willing to burn some connection skills on Engineering. The only thing I feel Jack is missing to round him out is Zero G which isn't available in the packages anyway...

@ Hayden:
yeah, slim pickings in the portraits here... did you try other genres/eras?

For another game here I actually pulled a still from a movie and modified it and tried using rpol's suggestions on 'posting your own pic' but it never worked :(

That looks like a picture of actor Jurgen Prochnow as the U-boat Captain from the film Das Boot.  Good choice. :)

Astrogation usually doesn't see much use - just the jump plot time...

Logistically, Doc could probably pull double duty on that to be more useful aboard ship if he had Astrogation 1 (+1 Edu).  His other bridge skills include Sensors 1 and Comm 0.  Normal J-2 plot would be a +4 DM - not like he could cause a misjump anyway (that's the Engineer's job! :).

He can also backup Jack with Engineering(Elecrtical) 2/0 and +1 Int/Edu (As can Danica).

---

  P.S. - don't believe you can use your own pic directly for a portrait (I wish).

  You must submit one via email and wait (see FAQs)
  Done this before and my pic showed up some weeks later.
  Unfortunately, it looks like Shannara updated last month's just today at 9:58
  so it will likely be another month... :(

Might want to check the house rules on astrogation.

Oops, edited out the disclaimer in that statement, but, missed any house rules on Astrogation (other than Sensors)?

[Figurin' based on Doc with +2 for Astro/Edu, +4 for Easy, -2 for J2...]

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #13):

Argh - Thanks!

Missed that whole (rather important) section.

Starships don't sink in water with gravitics working?

So the guy with Mechanic-1 (or maybe even 2) and Engineering-2, wants to be the Astrogator.

And the guy with Astrogation-2, wants to be the Engineer...

This is why you have to love random chargen.

One thing I've always found useful is to take a look at page 146 (and house rules) and figure out where you want to be when the missiles start flying.

Yep - random chargen is a hoot!

Wanted to create a scientist (scholar) - ended up a Medic! (Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor...).

But connection rules means I can still play a scientist. (Not an expert, but I like not having too high skills.)  Turns out to also be a 'fireman' - no fighting skills, but well skilled to repair battle damage from gun turrets to sophonts.  I really wouldn't have thought of that combination.

Now, the package skills make Astrogation a possibly reasonable option...

Heh, yeah. I ended up with exactly zero shipboard skills myself, so will have to grab the Gunner or something from a skill package to justify my extended presence on the ship.

I'm sure Jacques would prefer the bridge to the engine room ;) I guess I was just thinking about drive repairs after combat, not really the day-to-day operation. Kind of a silly idea now that I think about it, since I figured being conveniently seated at his Astrogation console he could also operate Sensors if need be, and be completely useless as an Engineer...

I thought the Ref's crew breakdown made sense, I just meant I'd be willing to fill in the gaps we seem to have - but I obviously read too fast the good Doctor's career overview! Dr. Jim, it would seem you're our strongest candidate for Engineer. Ship's Doctor just took on a whole new meaning ;)
This message was last edited by the player at 07:46, Mon 24 Jan 2011.

Danica has Pilot() and Sensors at a high level - those alone should warrant her presence as bridge crew.  She does have Mechanic/0 and Engineer (electronics)/1 - but I would not nominate her for Engineer by any stretch of the imagination.  Perhaps backup - in a severe pinch.

From the Starship package, she would most likely find Astrogation or Comms to be most useful.  She can take Medic, but already has that at level/0; someone else may find it more useful.  She could take Gunner - but that would probably be a waste.  Her role as pilot is more suited to helping other line up the shot than to take it herself.

We definitely need gunners - so, that is a good call, Bertrand.  That should likely go to you (assuming that is the package that we take).

By the way, since this is partly an exploration campaign, I suspect that Astrogation (consider boosting it, Jack), will be highly useful and not just for jumps - but all sorts of navigation in space.  Especially, uncharted (or ill-charted) space.

But also looking through the crew rosters for space combat... Does anyone have Tactics (naval)?  Danica has Leadership and Tactics (military); though, both are only level/1.

PS: Thanks for this... I didn't know it existed and it's very handy to have.  Beats looking through the pages one at a time!
This message was last edited by the player at 06:53, Fri 28 Jan 2011.

Just some free thinking -

All these could be critical at the same time:
♦ Pilot and Engineering for 'getting the hell outta there...'
♦ Mechanical repair ditto.
♦ Medic can be time critical for individual survival.

Starship package provides backup for these and gives needed Gunner skill, so sounds like the best - some thoughts on that:

Pilot - Piloting can only be done from one of the bridge consoles - assume most of the time best pilot would be there. Backup Pilot shouldn't have other critical primary duties.
Gunner - Bertrand stated interest and Hayden has the equivalent of Gunner 0 plus stat DMs from JoT 3? - if he'd like that role.  That leaves a turret for a RedShirt, Player 5 or whoever.
Engineer - Currently, Danica and the Doc both have Engineering 0 plus stat DMs (+1 for Doc) for purposes of backing up Engineering as well.
Mechanic - Doc has Mechanical 2 (plus +1 DM) and no plans for Gunner - so he would be great for repair crew (along with Danica in a pinch) when medical needs aren't a priority (hopefully that would be the case most times).
Sensors - Whoever doesn't have this or needs a boost (backup pilot?) - probably the other second skill.
Medic - Two PCs will get 2 skills from package - would be good for non-critical primary role (we definitely need someone who can fixup the Doc ;)
Comms - Comms can be run from anywhere, but Pilot with Comms allows locking down bridge and external comms with only Pilot on bridge.
Astrogation - Astrogation and Engineering can be run from any workstation (barring overrides) - Engineer can be physically with engines when need be and also do Astrogation when the two don't overlap. Astrogation from package would be for backup and when Engineering or Piloting must be done simultaneously to avoid multiple task penalties to these critical tasks.

BTW: Anyone have Remote Ops?

Well, perhaps the best thing is to pick what you want when the Ref calls your name and don't worry too much about it.  This is something we can easily overthink if we try hard enough.

In any event, it sounds like we know which package we want.

Here's Jack's shipboard skill set:

Astrogation-2; Vacc Suit-2; Sensors-1; Comms-0; Remote Ops-0

I would go for Comms out of the starship package. Two, if not all three, of my connection upgrades would go to shipboard skills.

I'd like Astrogation for the Doc.

His connection skills will bump up sciences and provide Mechanic 3 (+1 Edu).

Jack, a piece of advice that you might consider...

Since you already have Comms/0, you may want to let someone else that does not have Comms at all take it.  The benefit between Comms/0 and Comms/1 is only +1 DM to your roll.  Whereas for someone that does not have Comms at all, the difference is much larger (effectively +4 DM, since not having Comms at all means a -3 DM for being untrained).  And letting someone else take Comms, would give (at least) two people that would have some training in that skill.

If you do not have Mechanic or Medic, for example - you might be better served taking those skills instead (at least mechanically).  Or Pilot() or Engineer() cascades - since you not only get level/1 in one of the specialties, but also get level/0 in every other specialty in that cascade - which as I noted above gives you a lot of bang for the buck, since all of those other specialties get their -3 DM for being untrained negated.

Conversely, the benefit of taking Pilot()/1 for Danica (she could do it, and gain Pilot (capital ship)/1 maybe) - would be far less than if someone else took the skill.  She already has level/0 (or greater) in all of the other specialties.  And, in some ways it would defeat the purpose of the package (making sure that more than 1 person in the group has a given skill of some sort, as a back up.

Honestly, I would advise that you take Pilot(), if you don't already have it - it would make you a very solid co-pilot/navigator.  Or maybe Mechanic - the more people that we have to fix things, the better off we are.

Of course, it is up to you - if you really want Comms/1.  Go for it.

Danica, you make a great point about the relative value of 0-level skills... which is exactly why I flat out posted Jack's skill set - sound advice is great.

Seems we don't fit too easily into the ol' standard crew slots! I like that.

You've sold me - Comms is indeed a bigger gain for someone else than for Jack. Jack also gets a Dex bonus so Pilot is probably the better way for him to go.

Barring any objections (or advice!) Jack will take Pilot from the Starship package.

Thanks for the insight!

In reply to Jacques Keveloh (msg #27):

Package Skills

Alright, pretty much everyone has picked their connection skills, so we'll move on to package skills.  The following will be the order for picking package skills:

1st - Hayden
2nd - Jack
3rd - Bertrand
4th - Dr. Jones
5th - Danica
6th - Danica
7th - Dr. Jones
8th - Bertrand
9th - Jack
10th - Hayden

The package is a slightly beefed up version of the starship skills package.  These are the available skills for selection:

1) Astrogation-1
2) Comms-1
3) Engineer(any)-1
4) Gunner(any)-1
5) Mechanic-1
6) Medic-1
7) Pilot(any)-1
8) (any) Science (any)-1
9) Sensors-1
10) Streetwise-1

Every character will receive two skills.  Player Five, once he joins us, will get package skills separately.  Why the extra skills you ask?  Meh, I'm unpredictable.

Due to the nature of PbP, please don't wait for others before stating your preferences.  The selection order will only be a factor if two players want the same skill and can't find an agreeable solution.

Docs choices would be Astrogation, and Science.  (Engineering(PP) as an alternate.)

Happy to let anyone else take precedence, bearing in mind Gunner and Pilot being spoken for (and undesired), Doc has at least level 0 in all the other skills (and +1 Int/Edu DMs) except Streetwise, which might fit other characters better (RP-wise).

Unpredictable is good, thank you very much!

Jack would like Pilot, and will commit to the Small Craft specialty right now.

I'll go with Streetwise for Jack's second choice.

Bertrand needs the Gunner, and one of either Medic, Mechanics or Streetwise.

If Danica had her druthers, she would prefer to take Astrogation and Comms (as previously stated about the Starship package - before the extra skills were added).

Note, of the skills in the current package...  She cannot take Sensors or Mechanic (she has those at level/1+ already).  Of the remaining skills, she has Pilot(), Engineer(), Medic, and Streetwise at level/0 - so, as I have previously noted, those may not be the best to boost - but, Danica will do so, if that is all that is left.  That leaves Gunner() (which is not much use for a pilot and Bertrand is best suited to get) and (Any) Science().  Danica will take the Science() skill if that all that is left, but it may not be the best match for her (though her INT DM is good - her EDU DM is ... less so).

To me, the pilot is best served with Astrogation and Comms.  But, if the Doc really wants Astrogation, he does pick first.

As back-up/alternative picks - either Medic or Streetwise (though as noted about, Danica already has both of these at level/0).

And if both Medic and Streetwise are gone, as well.  Then Science() and Engineer() would be the picks she would have to take if her first four picks are already taken (which is possible, since she picks fifth and sixth in the list).  As I noted, at that point, Gunner(), Pilot(), Mechanic and Sensors are the only others left, which as I said - the latter two Danica can't take and the first two are better suited for Bertrand and Jack respectively.

Danica - no problem with the Astrogation.

My thoughts are that using Pilot and Astrogation for say calculating an emergency (perhaps even normal at times) jump plot or GG slingshot ends up with negative DMs for multiple actions...

Astro can be run from any workstation, so a backup can assist even if Danica is locked on bridge.  In the extreme event she's solo on the ship a -2 DM to both skills may be worse than a -3 DM to Astro.

Mostly figured Doc could act (+2 DM) as a backup to Jack (more so when Jack talked about Engineering connection skills.)  Shipboard, Doc being mostly a backup, taking an active role when things and other crew get busted.  Of course, even before connection and package skills Hayden is the ultimate fall-to guy with the JoT-3, any package skill just adding +1 for him.

Irregardless of pick order - its yours if you really want it.

(Likewise, if Comms is taken - you are welcome to the Science, Engineering being just +1 for either - but Danica would need be on the bridge more so than the Doc (one hopes).)

Don't forget, we'll all have a few Connection skills as well. Could be a better way to round things out than the Package...

Yep - Package skills are pretty much a bonus for backing each other up... metagame it will help in PbP as well if multiple player PCs have common needed skills.

BTW: Doc connection skills were Mechanic to 3, Survival-1 and Remote Ops-1.

Anyway, changing tacts, slightly.  I think this list is right (pre-connection and pre-package skill allocations)...

  Astrogation:  Jack/1+, Hayden/0+
  Comms:  Bertrand/1+, Hayden/0+, Jack/0+, Jim/0+
  Engineer:  Danica/0+, Hayden/0+, Jim/0+
  Gunner: Hayden/0+
  Mechanic:  Danica/1+, Jim/1+, Hayden/0+
  Medic:  Jim/1+, Danica/0+, Hayden/0+
  Pilot:  Danica/1+, Hayden/0+
  Science:  Jim/0+ (?)
  Sensors:  Danica/1+, Jack/1+, Jim/1+, Bertrand/0+, Hayden/0+
  Streetwise:  Danica/0+, Hayden/0+

So, only Jack has Astrogation.  And no one else has Gunner (unless they have taken it as a connection skill).  Everyone but Danica has some form of Comms (though only one person has it higher than level/0), and everyone has Sensors of some sort (only Hayden or Bertrand would benefit from taking Sensors/1 in the package).  Of course, Hayden effectively has level/0 in everything ...

Perhaps the Ref would consider replacing Sensors/1 in the package with Gunner()/1 or some such (it seems like we need more Gunner() skill)?

In any case, what about something like the following distribution:

  Bertrand:  Gunner(), Mechanic
  Danica:  Comms, (Engineer() or Medic or Astrogation)
  Hayden:  Sensors, (Medic or Engineer() or Astrogation (?))
  Jack:  Pilot, Streetwise
  Jim:  (Astrogation or Engineer()), Science()

Sorry, Hayden, I don't see a way around not giving you Sensors/1 - I do think that Bertrand would be better served taking Mechanic (as he has no Mechanic skill at all).  And I did not settle the Astrogation/Medic/Sciences()/Engineer() distribution... just limited to a few people.

Of course, I am sure that Hayden has a preference for which skills he wants.  And this has not taken those into account yet.

Sorry about the length of this missive.  I am not sure if we are over-analyzing this, at this point.]

EDIT:  Shortened by request.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:11, Thu 27 Jan 2011.

:)  (I'm generally always a fit for that statement!)

Suggestion - that post would be excellent cut down to just the list under 'I think this list is right (pre-connection and pre-package skill allocations)...' and the 'In any case, what about something like the following distribution:'

I think that Jack's Astrogation-2, Sensors-1 and Comms-0 make him the obvious choice to back up Danica on the bridge and vice versa. So Pilot is a no-brainer for him (yes, it took me a while to realize it, but still ;) ) Makes a lot of sense to give Astrogation to Danica so we have some redundancy on the bridge itself and are not asking someone to back-up astrogate while they're fixing or fighting somewhere else on the ship...

I think everyone's second choice will just be bonus, nothing that we'd want but probably something we could use. So maybe we should focus on our first choice, and let everyone weigh in, then think about second choices.

So, first choices:
Hayden - ????
Jack - Pilot
Bertrand - Gunner
Doc - Astrogation
Danica - Astrogation

Once Hayden weighs in we can see where we're at as far as alternates.

Doc is fine with being last on list - just stated his preferences. :)

Gunner and Pilot being spoken for (two skills I would rather he didn't have), means only streetwise would be not preferred (as a Player), but can deal with that.

EDIT: forgot the not!
This message was last edited by the player at 19:43, Thu 27 Jan 2011.

Sorry, I've got a few questions into the Ref for clarification before I can give an informed answer about skill package choices.  Once I get the info I need, I'll post something ASAP.

Well, there are a couple of things to consider with this type of decision: One is what kinds of skill and experience has my character learned over the years, which the package skill might represent.   The second would be the group needs and what kind of impact would my choice have on someone else.

I can see Hayden learning to patch up a wound (Medic), navigate the starship (Astrogation), or find a smuggler in a back alley (Streetwise).  Fortunately, with J-o-T-3, I already have a game mechanic which helps translate this experince into useful game terms.

As for impact, taking any of these skills, gives Hayden a +1 bump. On the other hand, not taking Streetwise, removes the unskilled penalty for Jack, which is a much greater impact.  It’s the same for whoever ends up with Astrogation.  So while I’m interested in some of these skills, the impact they would have for another character and the redundancy for the group might be much greater if someone else had them.

So with that in mind, here are my choices:

1st Choice: Sensors-1 (no one seems to be interested in this and everyone has it in some form already)

10th Choice: Whatever is left (Likely Engineer, Medic, or Mechanic)

Seems to me the most important skill we acquire from the Package list isn't spelled out - Teamwork!  ;)

Not to speak for anyone else - but I think I'm safe suggesting at this point we simply nominate Danica to make the call on the open choices and list out the package skill disbursements (if her player doesn't mind).

Well put, Hayden.  I know that I forget those things sometimes.  In this case, I'm going to just say that I believe that Doc Jones and I disagree on what are likely scenarios in which the back-up Astrogator is likely to be most useful and necessary in, especially with this crew.  And I don't think that we are going to convince each other otherwise.  But, ultimately, this shouldn't be that big of a deal.

Note - in almost every case that I can conceive of, our first option is to have Hayden take the place of whoever is down/missing.  That way, everyone else can stay with their proper specialty.  Oh, Danica is missing?  Well, Hayden has Pilot/0, same as Jack  So, Jack remains the astrogator and Hayden become the pilot.  Jack is hurt?   Okay, Doc stays the Medic (and tries to heal Jack?) and Hayden becomes the astrogator...  At least that is my take.

And if two people are missing/down?... Well, when you are down 40% of your original manpower.  I expect there are going to be multiple action penalties no matter what.  Three people are trying to do the job of five - what does one expect?

What I am willing to concede is that Doc seems to want Astrogation more.  So, our chief fixer (of people and things) can and should have it.  Danica wants Comms as her first pick.  And she'll take either Engineer() or Medic - whichever Hayden wants less, given that she has both at level/0 already (not unlike Hayden....:)) and can justify both (not unlike, Hayden again...:)).  I believe that Mechanic is probably best served to either Bertrand (or Jack) who does not have any levels in it at all.  And Bertrand has expressed some interest in it (please correct me if I am wrong, Bertrand - if you would prefer Medic or Engineer(), just say so).

So, I think that the list looks like the following:

  1st  - Hayden     Sensors
  2nd  - Jack       Pilot()
  3rd  - Bertrand   Gunner()
  4th  - Dr. Jones  Astrogation
  5th  - Danica     Comms
  6th  - Danica     Engineer() or Medic
  7th  - Dr. Jones  Science()
  8th  - Bertrand   Mechanic
  9th  - Jack       Streetwise
  10th - Hayden     Engineer() or Medic

Obviously, if anyone feels differently about (or misrepresented in) the list, just let me know - I am merely trying to reflect the preferences that people appear to have stated previously.  If those preferences have changed, then we can try to accommodate that.

I'm ok with Danica working out the skill packages.  The Astrogation skill seems to be the only thing in contention (well, contention might be too strong a word.. perhaps in question is the better way to say it).

Perhaps the Ref might consider splitting it between you... Since under the point buy system, a full skill level (Astrogation-1) is worth 2 points, perhaps it could be split and you could both take level-0 in it (1 pt each).  It seems Astrogation would be something Dani picked up as a pilot and something Jim knows if he has been perusing it as a scholarly interest.

This would let Jim be the primary backup if Jack were off the ship (thanks to Jim's strong Education), but if for some reason, Dani had to single hand the ship, she's at least know to to plot a course to get to the rest of us (if we were off in the launch or something).


I'd say let Bertrand take the extra level-1 skill that would be created out of the process, since he is the only one of us playing a four term character instead of five terms.  Just an idea.
This message was last edited by the player at 08:03, Fri 28 Jan 2011.

I'm fine with Danica allocating; if her player's not up for it, maybe the Ref could advise us.

Regardless, this is where we stand with first choices:

Hayden - Sensors
Jack - Pilot
Bertrand - Gunner
Doc - Astrogation
Danica - Astrogation

Which leaves the following 2nd choices (who's expressed interest):

Comms-1         (Danica)
Engineer(any)-1 (Doc as a third choice, Hayden)
Mechanic-1      (Bertrand, Hayden)
Medic-1         (Bertrand, Hayden)
Streetwise-1    (Jack, Bertrand)
Science (any)-1 (Doc)

Since they both make good arguments we can't really move forward to second choices until Doc and Danica make Opposed Checks for Astrogation ;)

Or we go back to the Ref's original numeric order.

Sorry, Danica, looks like we were all posting at the same time... yeah, this looks good.

I'm down for Hayden's suggestion as well... it's actually quite elegant.

Lastly, if anyone in the queue before Jack wants streetwise, speak up... I'm not going to debate the merits of it, I'll just pick something else ;)

Unless Dr. Jones corrects me, this is my understanding of the top half of the list.

Danica, over to you for the second half:


  6th  - Danica
  7th  - Dr. Jones
  8th  - Bertrand
  9th  - Jack
  10th - Hayden


Engineer (), Mechanic, Medic, Science(), and Streetwise are available.

Danica will take Engineer(), and substitute Weapon Engineering() (Merc. p. 41)

In reply to Danica Moreau (msg #48):

Doc takes Science () per previously stated intent.

Bertrand you have your choice of Mechanic, Medic, or Streetwise.

Make that Streetwise, then. Doesn't make much sense to have a zero there :)

Jack wrote: I'm not going to debate the merits of it, I'll just pick something else ;)


Easier said than done! ;) Jack takes Medic, so at least he and Hayden both gain a level-1 in something. Hayden's stat bonuses make him a better back-up fix-it man than Jack could ever be! A better medic too, for that matter.

In reply to Jacques Keveloh (msg #51):

OK, package skills are done.  A couple players have yet to buy equipment and Thera's player is still finalizing connections and backstory, but we'll go ahead and start soon. :)

Yay, chargen is finally complete!

Sorry for the delay, just been wrapping up a few things with chargen (and RL).  Hopefully an IC post coming later tonight.  Thanks. :)

Man, I get seriously thrown off balance when people mix past and present tense writing! Think we could agree on either form for unity?

How well do the PCs without connections know each other? How long have they been together and chatting since the escape from the yacht?
Do we know anything about this mission other than what is in the Prelude thread?
Who is this 'woman'? Am I missing something?

Not complaining, just curious so I can play my character right. :)

Good questions - Ref left the backstory pretty much to us as far as I can see and then weaved it into his story...

I assume the Doc has met everyone in backstory (even if only just) and he has treated or been involved in treatment of those wounded.  However, at least with the Doc, they aren't good buddies, yet.

Figure its been at least a short while since the yacht ordeal (recover times at least) and mustering out. Ref has provided dates in general, but I don't recall any specific on that one.

'You will each travel there separately...' & '...checked into hotel rooms and joined up to travel to the shipyard.' - we probably said hellos and such, but not much else.

My read on the woman - she appears to be Pathfinder Corps and we are all working for them under cover and probably her.  However, no specific mention as to whether we met/talked to her (or her assistant) has been made (in public threads).

I try to leave wiggle room in my IC posts.  From the prelude, I got that the special secret hospital was probably Facility 1013.  Figure she might have enlisted the Doc herself (he being a cynic of working for FRPC again), or my post could have alluded to a different 'bitch'. ;)

As to the mission - I assume 'contractors for the Scout service of a pocket empire in an underpopulated and relatively unexplored area of space.  Exploration, espionage, and various "odd jobs" will form the bulk of the adventures.' covers it ;)

Oh, in case you missed it - suspect mission details are forthcoming IC when we hook up with our 'Handler' at the starport.  The current scene is probably mostly to give a feel for the ship that stats and deckplans don't convey, though keep a keen eye out and your fishing lines baited for other details... (Hayden and Danica are ;)

'Aidensburg downport ... Mr. Newell, the ship's manager, ... go over the codes and such with you then.  He just asked me to show you around ...'

Mr. Newell might or might not be our handler.  We are working for FRPC - and the ship was originally being built for them - now its under 'private ownership'.

Missing something - sure.  We all are. ;)

I believe that is the point - the Ref is providing us with juicy mysteries to unravel.

Actually I think you're playing your character perfectly.  Of all the PCs, Thera would have the least clue about what is going on.

Thanks for calling me on the presentation, though.  I do get ahead of myself sometimes.

These are the facts each character would certainly know before agreeing to the deal:

1) You will be working as contractors for the Pathfinder Corps to perform a wide-range of tasks as directed.
2) Your cover will be as crew of an independent trader (Gypsy Moth).  Your effectiveness will hinge largely on others not knowing you are Pathfinder operatives.
3) Your pay will be shipboard salary plus shares of 50% of the ship's profit after expenses (no mortgage).
4) Your handler will be a retired Pathfinder named Simon Newell.
5) The term of employment is a minimum of one year.

From Thera's perspective, the pay was probably what attracted her, although if she can't be a pirate maybe mata hari isn't a bad plan B.  Other characters may have joined for other reasons.

As others with more Pathfinder time have pointed out, the woman from the prelude is indeed Petra Zamorin, Deputy Director of the Free Republic Pathfinder Corps.

The point of George Rupert was just to introduce the ship.  We'll progress on to meeting Simon Newell, which is where stuff will start coming together.

In reply to Referee (msg #58):

Ok, I can run with that, thanks. I'd guessed most of it. I'll assume we all know each other by name and have at least a brief resume of each other's backgrounds from our 'recuperation time'.

That and your shared time on the yacht, yes.

Good show... and that part about 'She'll make seven light years ...' really got me (though how is she on the Kessel run? :)

Doc's cool with moving on.

I had assumed that Hayden would have the title of captain - except when in combat, where I believe Danica would have the leadership role whenever possible.

Please share your thoughts about the crew dossiers when you get a chance.

From a ship operations point of view, we probably need 3 people.  Of course there could be considerable value in having a few folks to assist with 'operational' requirements - getaway drivers, door kickers, and people who blow stuff up in new and interesting ways.  So I'd say let's shoot for a total crew of 12 unless someone's got a better idea.

In reply to Hayden Marks (msg #63):

Well, I figure Engineers are good, troublemakers are bad, and a lot depends on the nature of the mission. :)

Meta-game, the Ref did say it was low-violence.

Ref: Does Thera know, or know of, Nino Stern? Since she was people-watching a population of under 2000 on Santander for half a decade or so, I imagine it's likely - unless he left.
This message was last edited by the player at 10:12, Fri 04 Feb 2011.

The Ref has provided us with quite a list!

Agree with Hayden & Thera and suspect we are all pretty much on the same page - though it looks like we have some interesting calls on who of the 11 to choose ( troublemaking engineers? - the good/the bad/the ugly ;).

Plus, Ref has left open further recruiting (and perhaps after our choices we 'test' our selections on our shakedown cruise...)

Anyway, I popped up a 'Recruiting' PM to everyone thinking we could first order and classify (Yes, Maybe, No) our choices using the simple red letter code I gave each one, before we get down to discussing merits.

Figure the ones which we all vote yes for are first candidates* - regardless of our differing reasons.

Remaining openings/exceptional opinions we'd discuss further.

(*- we'll still want to screen 'em - like the too good to be true sounding ones ;)

Hmmm... could be Fassel Ormach (Candidate I) might have some value in knowledge or as a 'bargaining piece' with the Antioch government.

Recruitment tally (guessing Jack's J vote and Hayden's order):

Nino Stern          K - 6 yes, 0 maybe,     0 no   Eng/Gun/Mech (Trap?)
Cyril Orcut         H - 5 yes, 1 low maybe, 0 no   Eng/Mech (Health?)
Dr. Syren Hathorn   E - 3 yes, 3 hi maybe,  0 no   Eng (Trust?)
Lance Charpentier   C - 3 yes, 3 hi maybe,  0 no   Gun/Melee (Catch?)
Marie Menkin        G - 2 yes, 4 mid maybe, 0 no   Gun/Mech (Aggressive?)

SRLT Prisa Gadron   D - 2 yes, 3 hi maybe,  1 no   Many Skills (redundant?)
Dagala Aksina       A - 1 yes, 3 mid maybe, 2 no   Melee/Security (need?)
Tamara Padabig      J - 0 yes, 5 mid maybe, 1 no   Security (need?)
Martin Calderon     B - 1 yes, 3 low maybe, 2 no   Explosives (redundant/trust?)

Dr. Deidre Kahl     F - 0 yes, 3 low maybe, 3 no   Medic/CSI (redundant, need?)
Fassel Ormach       I - 0 yes, 2 low maybe, 4 no   Gun (trouble?)

---

Interesting points of view all around!

For my part: SRLT Gadron (D) is at the top of my list for meta-game reasons - she has all the minimal ship skills and we can probably trust her with the ship - and to come get our asses when all the rest of us, including most hire-ons, are best elsewhere.

Now, I seriously doubt this game will be 'non-violent' ;)  However, tact, legalities and passenger problems may mean melee could be preferable over gun cbt at times - hence my higher status for Dagala Aksina (A).

---

Some ideas:
Drop Dr. Kahl and we have 10 that can fit in the 5 passenger quarters.

PC's with relevant primary skills do non-IC comm pre-screening (years experience, etc. - task roll for believability?) and invite to in-system trial run to a GG, or other habitats. (Uh - they get searched.  Especially Mr. Calderon!  And stay on passenger deck unless with PCs.)

If nothing else, Deception skilled can do 'truth' checks, Doc can do medicals, and Newell can be asked to do background checks.  And the ship can get a workout.

Not a bad idea but our first mission seems time-sensitive... maybe it's just a quick run around Alsace's moon? A quick EVA of some sort might be appropriate too, seeing as we'll be looking for a wrecked ship.

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #68):

Good points about using Ormach (I) as a bargaining chip, and Gadron (D) as High Guard.

Charpentier (C) can train us in the Melee skills you mention, but under the houserules, it will take him over a year to do it (read as 'never').

Yeah... the only way that's going to happen is if they all pay for passage.  Otherwise a crew of 16 is inconsistent with our cover.

Let's interview Stern, Orcut, Hathorn, Charpentier, and Menkin and pick three out of those.  Looking back at the March Harrier, MGT's Fat Trader entry, and the suggested crewing for a type SA from CT, salaries for a crew of nine will pushing it a bit for a 400 dton merchant ship.
This message was last edited by the player at 17:34, Sat 05 Feb 2011.

By my count we are talking a minimum of 5 week long J-2 hops plus refuel and trade time (maintaining cover) and we aren't in a desperate hurry: "... from the Antioch government earlier this year and reported back to us. ...You are to proceed with reasonable dispatch." - Newell

[BTW: Not sure if this refers to the 'recording', but the background thread has '065 News of the FRPS Consul attack reaches Espiaux.' and we are on day 350.]

---

Wasn't suggesting a crew of 16 ;) - just that we could 'interview' a bunch at once on a simple shakedown cruise within system (can they make drives perform better? Repair guns? - do the guns work? are the drives up to ratings?)

3 to 4 redshirts sounds about right to me (your original seemed high, but I was game)... would like to see Gadron in the mix (because she is so ship-wide redundant).

And we could interview Ormach - about Antioch.

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #72):

I agree that having crew berthed 'downstairs' would blow our cover. There are 6 cabins in the crew quarters, plus the VIP suite. Some of us are going to be two-up no matter what. At a push, we could get 12 in (if we could justify it in our cover).

Ouch! :)  Never meant to suggest crew would be quartered in passenger staterooms.

Just for a trial run - before they are crew! (Sorry, I had trimmed my post too much.)

So they can't kill us in our sleep ;) - or (more likely) sabotage the functional parts of the ship (especially that creepy Martin dude)...
EDIT: Original post sounded too dramatic - bold italic looked like shouting.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:18, Sat 05 Feb 2011.

Well played Hayden.  Expected someone would get around to mentioning registry, but LOL - that is the exact same course I had considered.

Simple interview and provisional employment to next jump sounds good.

I tend to over-complication and over-caution. ;)

In RL, I would never trust giving critical ship access to a bunch of strangers, recommended by a virtual unknown involved in the project, on such a secret mission that was overseen by a board, involved outside investors, and run by managers I'd never really worked with.

My PC, on the other hand, not being a spook - would not give it too much thought.

P.S. - Assume we will all be provided logo patches after Hayden's shopping trip...

Thanks.. no sense getting killed because the wrong flag is painted on the hulll.  ;)

---

In lieu of trying to fill the ship's locker with a selection of gear that no one will be happy with, I'll be cutting 15,000 to each player character as a locker allowance.  This is to allow you to purchase your own vacc suit, longarm, non-lethal sidearm, 100 rounds of ammo for each, and a radio transceiver.

Because of this, the locker is going to otherwise have a lot of rescue balls, standard tool kits, along with uninspiring weapons (cutlasses and accelerator rifles) plus emergency vacc suits for the rest of the crew and passengers.  If you don't get what you need with this 15,000, you may be SOL if you reach for the locker, so please use this to buy the 4 main items indicated (vacc suit, longarm, non-lethal sidearm, and radio transceiver).  If you already have some or all of these, you can use the allowance for whatever you want.

---

Item - Mandatory Options
----

1) Vacc Suit - Magnetic Grapples

Recommendation: TL-A Vacc Suit with Magnetic Grapples, TL-A Radio Transceiver, and Vacc Suit Emergency Kit (9,850 total) available as indicated here (Ref's chart):

Tech Level      Protection      Required Skill  Costs   Mass
------------------------------------------------------------
TL-8            4               Vacc Suit-1     7,000   24 kg
TL-A            5               Vacc Suit-1     9,000   18 kg
TL-C            6               Vacc Suit-0     10,000  12 kg

2) Longarm* - 100 rds ammo, Secure Weapon

Example: Accelerator Rifle with Secure Weapon and 7 Magazines (1070 Credits)

3) Non-Lethal Sidearm* - 100 rds ammo, Secure Weapon

Recommendation: TL-A Stunner, with Secure Weapon and Power Pack (1050 Credits)

4) Radio Transceiver -

Recommendation: TL-A Radio Transceiver (50 km range), Negligible Weight, 250 Cr.

Note: Either the longarm or sidearm should appropriate for zero-g combat.  All longarms will be stored in the locker until needed.  Non-lethal sidearms are approved for concealed shipboard carry.

Optional Equipment

1) Handcomp (if needed)

Recommended: TL-B Handcomp (700 Credits)

2) Personal Armor (if needed)

Recommended: Armortec Crew Coat [Protection 5, Emergency Air Supply] (800 Credits)

3) Specialized Tools, Diagnostic Equipment, Tradecraft Items (varies)

Example: EM Probe (1000 credits)

Also;

All crew will be issued the following clothing items (from MGT Compendium):

2 ea Ship's Jumpsuit
2 ea Ship's Underwear
2 ea Ship Socks
2 ea Ship Boots
2 ea Cap
2 ea Belt
2 ea Utility Tabard
2 ea Gloves

2 ea Ship's Uniform
2 ea Ship's Underwear
2 ea Ship Socks
2 ea Ship Shoes
2 ea Belt

The first step in looking like Merchants will be dressing like Merchants... :)
This message was last edited by the player at 20:49, Sun 06 Feb 2011.

In reply to Hayden Marks (msg #76):

I have added an additional post to the Gypsy Moth thread.  It lists what Hayden has identified for the ship to buy.  The locations are my best guess, feel free to move stuff around.

I figure the equipment will be trickling in over the next few days and each member of the crew will have some role in purchasing it (Jack picks up the vacc suits, Doc the medical supplies, etc).

I've done another tranche of purchasing and sent in a request for things to be shifted around a bit.  So once that is updated (you'll know because the launch will suddenly have stuff in it!), please take a look and let me know if I've missed anything obvious.

For tradecraft gear, I would propose that we keep that separate.  It might be better for our cover if that gear were not stored in the locker or common areas.  It gives us a bit of deniability.  The last thing we want is the ship impounded; we can always come visit you in jail*… lol

*followed by bribing them to get you out, breaking you out, or hiring Jaahnny Cochraan – legendary space lawyer to get you out legally.  Then we all fly away in the non-impounded starship.

Also, for similar reasons, we should not bug passenger rooms… but if we need to bug the luggage that someone stores in their stateroom… well <shrug>.

;) Again, it’s all about deniability.

The smuggling compartment may be the best place for spook gear.  If there is something you need but don’t have the funds for, shoot me a message.  I don't want to give the tradecraft gear short shrift, but at this point, I can't think of anything that's a definate need for what we've been asked to do.  If someone else has, please let me know.

For departure, I'd suggest a date of 357.  Should give us time to get everything arranged.  Plus that's just a cool number.  :)
This message was last edited by the player at 09:09, Mon 07 Feb 2011.

Looks good! (can delete nearly identical scratchpad list† from chargen ;)

Doc will add recommended suit combination (9,850) plus Tactical Video Suite, if available.
[CSC pg153 - TL7, 2kg, 125 Cr w/realtime AV monitoring; +1 tactics for viewer].

As Doc would only likely throw a gun or use it as a crowbar... he'll buy a nice suit and put leftovers in the 'Sickbay Fund'.

†You've probably covered these already:
  Bulkhead Patches (CSC pg157, TL10, 150 Cr)
  Iris Valve Opener (CSC pg162, TL10, 2000 Cr)
  Advanced Welding Kit (CSC pg162, TL10, 5,000 Cr)

Not necessarily now, but for later (wreckage?):
  Laser Cutting Gear (CSC pg162, TL9, 4,000 Cr)
  Thrust Pack (CSC pg157, TL9, 2000 Cr)
  A vehicle.

Writeup only mentions surveillance for passenger common spaces, access airlocks, and cargo hold - may want to add engineering spaces, storerooms, lockers, ammo storage, workshop and sickbay.

*Do we have Jaahnny Cochraan on retainer yet - in case we all get pinched by the man? :)

A quick note about tools:

I asked about using Core rulebook toolkits early on, because a lot of the CSC stuff is just gear for gears sake and quite pricy.




Plus it breaks things.  For example:

Repair Robot (TL 11): Shipboard repair robots are small crab-like
machines that carry a variety of welding and cutting tools. They
scuttle around tiny access tunnels but also crawl over the exterior
hull to conduct repairs and maintenance. Cr. 10,000.

So consider that for only 1,000 Cr. more than the cost of an Advanced Welding Kit plus Laser Cutting Gear, I can buy a robot that carries "a variety of welding and cutting gear".  And that welding and cutting gear must clearly be designed for working on starships; it's a shipboard repair robot!

If you look at the Repair Robot's writeup in Core rules, it includes a mechanical toolkit as an integral system.  So my take on it is that the Mechanical toolset already includes items capable of performing these tasks, which is how the repairbot ends up carrying welding and cutting tools.

Then we run into various tech level issues - like no "Starship" tools until TL-12... guess TL-9 throught TL-11 ships are SOL. Or end up getting repaired with carpenter and metalwork tools.

Anyway, my preference would be to keep using Core rules for toolkits.  They are heavy enough (12 kg each) to reasonably include a variety of things and it's one part of the rules that I think was reasonably thought out; a one to one toolset to skill ratio.  If the Ref wants to revist the issue, I can add in more gear.  We do need to be able to weld and cut stuff.

But keep in mind that a lot of CSC is just recycled T20 stuff (it’s almost word for word the same as the Traveller’s Guidebook Playtest File for T20 put out in 2004), so there is a lot of weird duplication due to poor editing (like Communicator, Personal, Advanced at TL-9 vice Communicator, Personal (“Comm”) with entrys at TL-6, 8, and 10).

PS: I'm not sure how interested everyone is in the merchant stuff, so I'm trying to line things up and push forward.  Please feel free to jump in and make suggestions, help with cargo, or whatever if you'd like.  I don't want to exclude anyone's interest, but I also recongize that there may be some players who feel - "well if I wanted to play a merchant, I would have rolled a merchant."  I also don't want to assume you aren't interested if you are.  So let me know if there's something that needs to be done that you are interested in.  Cheers!
This message was last edited by the player at 11:50, Mon 07 Feb 2011.

In reply to Hayden Marks (msg #80):

We may not intend to get into trouble, but sometimes the best way to stay out of trouble is to be prepared for it. Do we have any portable heavy hardware, such as a machine gun/auto cannon, and/or rocket/grenade launcher. You know, just in case...

A few hand grenades or even flash-bangs can give you an edge and they're light and cheap, though Thera's not the one to think of these things.

I do keep wondering about that CSI's specific forensic skills for forgery detection, though, depends what sort of investigation we'll be carrying out...

Thera will go with the recommended gear, plus 'tradecraft' of Disguise Kit (any theatrical supplies store) and lockpicking kits (if nobody has any contacts for these, she can make enquiries on the street).
That lot should come close to her 15k.

Do we have enough ammo for the turrets?

Thanks! 100% Agreed - and that explains things quite well. ;)

Was going by: 'Supplement 4: Central Supply Catalog will be considered authoritative for all equipment, armor and weapons descriptions which conflict with the Core Rulebook' - frankly, think Core makes more sense in most areas - fortunately, so does the Ref.

Funny, had edited out repair robots in a paragraph about possibly waiting on some stuff (assuming jump to Espiaux) for TL reasons and to maximize Hayden's capital.

Re: merchant stuff - I'm game for any roleplay.  Metagame, Doc has no direct 'merchant' skills, but RP may work because of that - as an 'expert', comedy relief, etc.  As to the nitty-gritty details of how much, what, where, when - expect my normal OOC peanut gallery input, but I'm not vested in any of my crackpot ideas/inane rules chatter.  Seriously, we could ship with just TP (mandatory) and a butter knife* - its all good!

(*Who needs vacc suits and stuff - we can just hold our breathes, use the knife in combat and in lieu of toolkits, and the TP is for when we can't hold our breathe..)

---

Yeah - rrrright! =)

Did think there was some mention of permit level restrictions somewhere, but maybe that's another game... (Cat 3 - paramilitary small arms?).

BTW: Sickbay might be a good spot for 'cosmetic recuperation', uh, kit.  And lockpick tools might blend into medkits/toolkits just fine.


One never has enough ammo for the turrets! :)

In reply to Thera Santorini (msg #81):

Tranche 2 of the gear purchase is in the Gypsy Moth thread.

Regarding toolkits, let me preface my comments with the statement: "#$%@!*(& CSC".  Seriously, what's the point of the Electric Welding Kit when the Metalworking Kit on the same page does all the same stuff and more?  I understand there's a price advantage, but is comparison shopping that important in RPGs?

As an old CT hand, I tend to take a broad view on the capabilities of equipment.  Therefore, for basic metalwork, the necessary tools will be in one of the mechanical or engineering toolkits.  By TL-A, what may need a full-scale oxy-acetalene welding rack might be achievable with a handheld "laser torch" that plugs into ship's power and could easily be part of the 12kg of equipment in a kit.

If you want to do heavy-duty welding quickly, then a metalworking toolkit is in order.  You could probably still do it with the basic kits, but it would take longer.

The Laser Cutting Gear seems to be specially designed for intrusion or possibly rescue (jaws of life style).  As such, it will cut through starship hull more quickly than the metalworking kit and much more quickly than the "laser torch" or similar apparatus in the basic kits.

In short, let's say the basic kits are sufficient to get the job done.  More specialized gear listed in the CSC can be purchased and is useful for getting larger-scale or specialized jobs done more quickly, but is not required per se.  To use cutting through an armored starship hull as an example, the basic kits could do it in a few hours, the metalworking kit in 10-60 minutes and the Laser Cutting Gear in a few minutes.  Does that work for everyone?

Exactly my thoughts/rationalizations. (Especially that first part!)

Figuring, if we are in vacc suits locating a wreck and then trying to cut our way in it might be good to do it before the suits run out of air or the pirates get to us... then again, its more dramatic if we can't. :)

---

Great outfitting Hayden!

Forgot about Merchant gear (The Wrecker) - The Salvage Suit ain't the Doc's style, but it looks real interesting...

(Of course, the 'Tow Cable' idea is laughable - it should refer to lashing a starship, not 'hauling behind')

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #84):

Sorry, I'm limited to the Core Book, what's 'the wrecker'?

Only one HEV suit. I know they're expensive, but the more hazardous the environment, the more useful backup becomes. Do we need another?

From Book 7:

The Wrecker (TL7): A titanium-alloy piece of hardware used by emergency crews, junkers and other salvage experts, the Wrecker is a multi-task tool. Roughly a half-metre in length, the Wrecker has several different shaped ends designed for prying, cutting, hammering and puncturing metal. The tool adds a +2DM to all Trade (Salvage/Repair) checks as well as a +1DM to Mechanic checks. It can be used as a makeshift weapon with the following statistics.

And, typically, 'the following statistics' are in a table on the next page. ;)

Sorry, a little late to the party here.  I was fighting a migraine yesterday.

Are TL-C Vacc Suits readily available on Alscace?  Is the main down side that repairing such items would require more than is readily available at any place in the local area (i.e. all of Halowan sector?)?  And therefore would accrue an inherent -ve DM to repairs and such?  Or would such cutting edge items be easily recognizable and therefore flag us as FRE (unlike all of our other items, accents and ship)?

In reply to Referee (msg #83):

This seems reasonable to me.  So basically the more specialized and advanced the tool, the better it performs in its niche.

In reply to Messages #81, #84, #85:

At this point we've spent more than half of the 800,000 Credits on the locker and provisions, not including fueling the ship.  So while it would be great to have every possible contingency item on hand, we should be realistic about what we think we will encounter.  We have to balance what we have on hand with our need for capital to perform speculative trade, purchase fuel, pay port fees, salaries, etc.

I am very comfortable with where we are at with the locker at this point and let me explain why:

1) In the ref’s previous game, which some of us participated in, it was made clear that in his universe, ship’s are resilient enough, that even a older ship, could limp out of port with no tools on board and reasonably expect to make it to her next destination after jump.  So my guess is that given the amount of equipment we have on hand, we may be over equipped compared to most ships in this universe.

2) My understanding is that the game will have a reduced level of violence.  So where as in most games, the ‘O shit we need more firepower moment’ may cause you to call your friend in Battle Dress over, I suspect that the longarms in our locker will serve the same role in this game.  We are unlikely to carry longarms off the ship given the extraterritoriality issues in the game.  Also, almost every population center greater than 1000 people in the two subsectors has a law level of six or higher.  I suspect stunners and brawling will see quite a bit of use and if we need to reach for firepower, a laser or auto-rifle will generally be sufficient.  Again, it’s one of the things I asked about early on, so let me share the exchange.




3) The single HEV suit was considered in light of the fact that only 1 planet in either Halowon or Espiaux subsectors has an atmosphere code of A or higher (Winters Gate unless my eyes are getting too old to find another).  So we don’t face the threat of corrosive or insidious atmospheres on any inhabited world in the two subsectors.  And while an HEV suit protects against additional threats, such as radiation, overall, I trust in our ability as players to come up with ingenious solutions to problematic conditions (and I trust the Ref not to put us in a non-win scenario to begin with).  Also, I knew that I’d be selecting a Salvage Suit for Hayden, which has a feature sets that puts it somewhere between a normal vacc suit and an HEV suit.  So I’d say we are shipping out with 1.5 HEV suits.  At some point we will pickup another HEV suit (a full version if someone has the vacc-2 to wear it and the engineering skill to be useful while wearing it), but for now, I think we will be ok.

4) For similar reasons, we will pickup a wider range of tools and cutting gear once we’ve made money, but I’m confident that between the two or three people using the toolsets we have, along with the cutting torch on the Salvage Suit, won’t be trapped anywhere for too long if we run into problems before we make those purchases.

Those caveats aside, I do appreciate the feedback you guys have given.  The bulkhead patches were an ‘oh crap, I forgot those’ moment and was the kind of oversight that makes me appreciate having more than one set of eyes on this.

We could plus up the locker a quite a bit more if you guys would consider working the first three jumps as working passage (i.e. without salary).  Let me know if you are open to this idea.
This message was last edited by the player at 05:05, Tue 08 Feb 2011.

That is fine with me - ship's quarters should be reasonable as a base of operations.  We may need a little bit of a petty cash fund ... Especially if we intend to wheel and deal a bit on the first couple of jumps.  Danica has very little cash from muster... *mutter* *mutter* Damned snake eyes...*mumble* *mumble*

No arguments from me on the kit, it's just...



I think all Traveller players get fidgety when they don't have an armoury at their disposal. :)



That's not a problem OOC, Thera has quite a bit put by, and is unlikely to spend much. Besides, if she got desperate, she could probably earn a month's salary overnight...
IC, OTOH, might be a bit trickier. Thera is proud of her climb from the gutter and, having experienced abject poverty with no desire to return, is quite avaricious.

Perhaps, as you say, we have enough kit already?
If you want to save group cash on transport by having Thera own the TL10 equivalent of a second-hand BMW convertible, let me know.

Edit: Just curious - most of the kit seems to be in fours: 4 cutlasses, 4 snub pistols, etc. There are 6 PCs, 5 if you discount the pacifist Dr Jim, so why 4 of everything? Just to give a spread of kit?
This message was last edited by the player at 10:59, Tue 08 Feb 2011.

Outfitting looks great to me - as mentioned, aside from weapons most of this was what I had on a list earlier myself with some nice additions.

Wow, >400 K, is that including non-listed items like 1st months salaries (or ship's ammo, thought that was included)?  Besides the idea of deferring some purchases till Espiaux, I had also edited out in my posts, re: in-system shakedown cruise with potential recruits, the intention that we fuel up for free - Alsace is orbiting a large GG, after all.

Would have figured between those to save ~15% or more for speculative trade - especially considering going form the Ag, Ri world of Alsace to Espiaux.

As to work for passage - Doc is cool with that, but Doc doesn't care about coin. How about deferred salary instead (Thera might be ok with that...)?

P.S. - Danica (and others), Doc has some money to lend for personal acquisitions (P.P.S. - Thera can't know this :)


Me too - and, excepting what Bertrand might have picked up, I didn't think we had anyone above Melee 0 for non-weapons brawling.

Hence the reason for one of my yes selections:

Name: Dagala Aksina
Credentials: 8th Dan blackbelt jiujitsu, smallcraft pilot, paramedic, concealed carry permit, EVA certified, driver’s license

I believe the CSI was biological (she was a medic/bio science) - I read her as being useful for identifying remains.  Doc also has these skills (with Investigative), though maybe lower, but also has above average Int/Edu stats.

As to forgery detection - Danica has Investigate and Deception, probably at level 2 I suspect.

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #91):

Yeah, I can't see 400k of kit on the list, either, though I don't know how much the cargo drone is. What's that for, BTW? If it's the cargo robot in Core at 75k, I'm thinking we can hire a helluva lot of stevedores for 75k...

Are the listed Vacc suits in addition to the ones we're buying ourselves?

Deferred salary would be a much better proposition to put to Thera, if we need the money. :)

The problem with a vehicle at this point is the opportunity cost.  Say we purchase a 4 dton car that prevents us from taking 4 dton worth of cargo.  Well, if (and it’s a legitimate if, we may not always be full) that displaces cargo from say 5 of our 7 jumps, then that 4tdon car has cost us 24,000 Credits (4 tons x 1,200 credits per ton for a jump 2 trip x 5 trips) , in addition to whatever the purchase price was.

Realistically at some point we will need to carry our own ground transport, but when we do give up that space, it’s probably better to do it for something we can’t easily rent.  Armored-enclosed-sealed-high -performance ground car or air/raft, etc.



These are for hired NPC crew.  PCs are expected to purchase their vacc suit, weapons and ammo using the 15,000 credits they have been given.



It does not/not include salaries. Ammo was provided with the ship.



The fueling option at the gas giant is a good idea, depending on the cargo we get.  Getting buffeted about in a gas giant may not be compatible with all cargo.  It’s something we want to ask about.

I know that a lot of the Lanth material has not been reposted here, and perhaps won’t be used.  But it’s a great overview of everything that is needed (and could go wrong) with cargo ops.  For folks who may not have been privy to this earlier, the Ref has put a lot of great thought and consideration into merchant operations.  You may have also seen this on COTI as well.
link to a message in another game



Yeah, it’s not the worse skill set to have.  At a certain point though, we are the PCs and have to step up.  Sometimes you have to fight your own bar room brawls.  Still, if the tradecrafty types want her for snatch and grab jobs, extra security, or whatever, we can contact her.



3 tons of life support is 150,000.
15,000 credit locker allowance times six PCs: 90,000
3 tons of spare parts: 30,000.
The cargo drone (taken after the Ref mentioned twice that we might want one) is 30,000.  I assume it will be more reliable than stevedores, who can be slow, careless, prone to pilfering, etc.  The Lanth info above has a bit more on this aspect.
4 Vacc  Suits, 8 Softsuits, 1 HEV suit: 65,075…

Plus all the other ash and trash… it adds up quickly.

Ah - I see why my guesstimate of upto 350 KCr was off - the 150,000 Cr for life support!

I looked at 12 staterooms x 2,000 Cr (per Core) = 24,000 per month (though food is basic) with only 1 month for the first trip (again to defer expenses).

So where does this come from (book?):
  3 tons Luxury Life Support (240 person weeks as of 357-5740)


As a shakedown in-system hop-about, wasn't expecting we carry cargo (unless we can find a buyer to one of the many moons in system). The whole crew or recruits doesn't have to be involved in this either - though, not saying the 50,000 saved credits might not delay taking on cargo, but again, maybe not prudent to take on cargo before trying a brand spanking new ship out either... ;)

Extra vacc suits for redshirts are a good idea as we need them to function during decompression or in full away-party.  But, they are also something that could probably be deferred a bit especially considering the emergency softsuits listed.

Aside from our cover being blown (and discovering builder shortcuts) - something the PC's probably won't put as much stock in as ourselves ;) - the first half of Hayden's proposed route should be excellent for trade and low risk (again from the PC's point of view).

Sorry, been away for a few days - lots going on here!

RE: crew salaries. Deferral seems like a smart way to go about things, rather than working passage. We could each track our own salaries, to help with book keeping. At least for the first few jumps, and then re-evaluate if need be. But we should probably just pay out the NPC hires to keep things clean and simple.

RE: crew stipend. Thanks Capn! Jack has purchased a lot of his gear out of his muster; after a vacc suit buy, his remaining cash can go back into the ship's kitty if need be. Just waiting on an answer to Danica's astute question re: parts and repairs of TL C vacc suits before I make that purchase.

Now that I think about it, Jack could use some of his stipend to purchase those extra parts and repair items... um, Ref? ;)

RE: ship's vehicle. I've been assuming the launch would be the primary dirtside transport, except where obviously inappropriate/dangerous at which point we would be using local transports - renting most likely. Seems like we should hold off on a ground car or air/raft or whatever for a bit and see what we actually need.

House Rules thread.

Also, Gypsy Moth has a full load of fuel onboard (or will by the time she is flown to Aidensburg).  The Shipyard has already billed Blackfin for it so transparent to the group.  I should have worked that into the tour at some point.  Sorry.

Also also, no TL-C vacc suits.  Danica's player is just trying to push me I think under the "doesn't hurt to ask" school of thought. ;)

Also also also, didn't realize I had mentioned the cargo drone twice, but, yeah, might not be bad to have.
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:56, Tue 08 Feb 2011.

*shrug* Just asking for a clarification.  They are in Hayden's listing (that he says he got from you) in msg #76 and have a price (which is, in theory, quite obtainable with our stipend).  As you said, it never hurts to ask.  Though I would not have asked, if the entry hadn't been present...:)

No problems - this is just chatter - the IC details are great!

House rules - doh!  Forgot another one.

P.S. - assume books 2,000 Cr 'per stateroom' should be read as 'per person'.  I like that as it makes High Passage slightly more profitable than 2 Middle.

Seems we could save a sizable 100,000 Cr chunk (for trade) by only buying 80 person weeks up front... that being enough for 20 people for a month (longer if we get middle passengers credits up front :).

Well, gee - see - that sounds low risk... some bullion, a few bank records... what could go wrong? :)

[Thera - you were say'n about those weapons and ammo...]

Congrats on squeezing the bank, Captain!

(Though, maybe you should rough him up a bit... just on principle!

Lets see - bank is investor..bank pays ship..ship pays profits back to investors... Yeah, sounds like a bank - gee, wonder who handled the shipyard financing :)

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #100):

I'm confused about Jim's reaction to Marie Menkin at interview. Since Newell showed us the dossiers on the candidates the previous afternoon, surely Jim would have recognised her face and/or name if they met that evening, and wouldn't have embarrassed himself?

I'm not criticizing the player's RP, but rather querying the sequence of events, which presumably has been ok'd by the Ref.

No problem.

Newell offered to 'take the liberty of uploading dossiers' - didn't mean the Doc bothered to take it, much less look at it ;)

IC-wise, Doc's response regarding the list was 'Of course, he figured that dossiers list to be more about potential spies for the top lady than anything else, but that was in Hayden's lap now.'

Thera was RP-ed as not paying attention at that point ;)

Hayden is the only one who accepted Newell's list during roleplay, IIRC. Implicitly it could be presumed, especially as the Ref didn't contest it regarding the bar jaunt, that the other folks either accepted Newell's offer or got the list from Hayden at some point.

Referee's OOC 'roll whatever skill or attribute you think most fits your style for the third one.  Good luck! ;)' at the bottom of msg #57 was in response to a PL regarding Jim hooking up with Ms. Menkin without knowing who she was.  How 'lucky' he truly was remains to be seen :)

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #102):

I see. I bet he'll read dossiers next time they're handed out! :)

Probably not - he'll just make sure he can handle the local brew before blowing it with a hot prospect ;)

BTW: Doc's take on things is based on his own perceived 'version of events' (after afore-mentioned brew) - it says nothing whatsoever about Ms. Menkin's 'character' (no pun intended).  He easily could have misunderstood the prior night's encounter - she could be a real sweetheart, or a real the other thing...

Ref should be able to spin that any way he likes.

So am I.

Jim, I took your intentions for 350 evening to mean a prediliction for attractive redheads in general.  The supposition that the person you tried to pick up in a city of over a million people would just happen to be the job candidate you're interviewing the next day is Victorian-era novel level coincidence.

Roll d100, if the result is a 100 then it actually was Marie Menkin.  Otherwise the Doctor has made an error of mistaken identity or the post should be retconned.

Sorry - I was too obtuse with the line 'Haha - Jim hasn't seen Newell's list... :)' after the pic and the 'Could be an interesting (re-)meeting!' OOC :(

I mistook the roll request, I too think the odds would be against a chance encounter - conceivable as a Ref call only given her profession, the area they are in, and her being a local available for first thing the following morning.

If you are ok with it, no retcon needed, she's a local and a hot redhead, I set Jim up to not be at his best (purposely, in case Ms. Menkin preferred to deny the incident) - mistaken identity is just as good a roleplay twist.

Take the d100 anyway, sometimes extremely unlikely things happen!

Oh sure - 61. ;)

[Appreciate the Ref entertaining something I as a player misunderstood - but don't want to make more work for him because of it (I'm good for that anyway)!]

Ref makes a good point about the split action, so thought I'd rough in what I think Jack is handling the next couple game days to help avoid confusion.

Evening of 350: bar hopping with Thera (Nino Stern?) not expecting this to be a big crazy night, just wanting to help gather some unofficial info on our candidates.

351: join interviews at 1000 (Lance Charpentier)
After interviews spend rest of day/evening examining new vacc suits and EVA gear

352: Morning: available for any crew interviews
Afternoon: attend hyperspace conference, hear/meet Dr. Hathorn if poss, set up interview if appropriate
Evening: continue Vacc/HEV suit inspections or crew interviews

After the vacc/HEV inspections, Jack would probably move on to integrating his personal hand comp with the ship's computer, making sure the ship's databases are as up to date as possible and general readying of the ship as more materials come in. Eventually he'll run another deeper analysis on Newell's distress signal clip.

If Hayden or Danica have a better use of time for Jack, please chime in ;)

Sorry, a little late to the party on Day 351.  Just posted, IC - I hope I wasn't holding anything up (from the looks of it, Danica was not).

Jack, I don't have much more specific for you (yet).  Danica is pretty much doing those same types of legwork, when we are not interviewing people.

Looks like the gang on the ship has caught up with the night in the bar... if there are no objections, Jack will appear for the Lance interview and we can keep the bar thread running to it's conclusion. If we want to finish up the bar thread before Jack joins the ship interviews, that's cool too.

Just want to make sure everyone's okay with me playing past & present concurrently ;)

I seriously can't write a proper post when you alternate between past and present tense. Maybe I'm neurotic, but I can't help trying to match my posts to the narrative flow of the last few replies :(

In reply to Bertrand (msg #112):

Alright, I changed it to present tense (hopefully).  Cheers!

No need to go back and change things, but I'd really appreciate it if we could agree on the same style. Present tense third person?

Sure, third person present, not my personal preference, but if it will get you to post... Let's do it!

You're up, Bertrand!

Just an FYI, I have my dad and stepmum in town through the weekend.  So, my responses may be limited in size and frequency, but I will try to keep up.  Sorry about the short notice.  Bot/NPC Dani as necessary.

In reply to Danica Moreau (msg #116):

I've had several questions regarding cameras onboard Gypsy Moth.  To clarify, all spaces have surveillance cameras except:

Crew Staterooms
VIP Stateroom
VIP Office
Passenger Staterooms
Sickbay
the Launch

Crew and passengers are considered to have a reasonable expectation of privacy in their quarters, hence no cameras in those locations.  Same expectation of privacy extends to sickbay.

In reply to Referee (msg #117):

Should I assume that even if Thera isn't present for all of the interviews, she will be able to review video/transcripts and will be involved in the decision making discussions?

I was originally waiting for Jack and Thera to post in the 351 thread thinking their Nightlife Investigations™ would be over.  Thought I must have missed somewhere stating they weren't planning on attending the interviews or something.

At the very least they should be there for any 'review'...

Sure!

Dunno about Jack, but I had Thera state somewhere back that she wasn't too keen on interviews but would probably sit in on (guy from Santander's) interview.

Yeah, the bar scene is taking longer than I expected but I think we may have some good info to bring home when it's done. The on-board interviews are very quick, over before I can chime in, so Jack will join Thera in the tape review...

Yeah, me too.

In reply to Referee (msg #123):

Well, we can fix that. :)

In reply to Thera Santorini (msg #124):

Working on it. :)

I tried, and goofed it up I guess (sorry Thera). But it seems like Gypsy Moth isn't much of a secret, not sure what value there is in being real cloak-and-dagger about our general cover story. The candidates could have just as easily been interviewed on the ship itself with all of us present.

In reply to Jacques Keveloh (msg #126):

Forget it, these things happen. :)
That's why I was playing it cloak and dagger, to try to get the type of info that wouldn't come out at interview, but from the Ref's comment above, I'm not so sure there is any. Maybe these guys are just 2D redshirts after all and looking round the back of them will simply show up the plywood struts.

Maybe the Ref can see where we're going with the bar chat and feed us the results of our evening, if he wants to move on?

In reply to Thera Santorini (msg #127):

Uhh, I just meant I was glad to see more posts in that thread. :)

Pshaw... posting is over-rated...;)

Sorry, this read to me like "It's taking longer than I expected too, I was only anticipating a couple of posts, then move on," since I figured that's what Jack's player meant.

I see now it can also be read as "It's taking longer than I expected between posts and I have a lot of info to squeeze in there before the interview thread runs out."

I can play it whichever way. :)

For the rest of 351, I'm going to start working on finding a spec trade supplier, but can someone with good Streetwise, Diplomat, or Investigate please start working on finding a freight supplier?  If we can't line up cargos to buy, we should at least keep the hold from going empty.  We'll have 60 tons total available for spec trade and/or cargo.  Thanks!

@ Hayden: Jack has two of those three skills so he could take that ball if no one else wants it. Should we wait until the ship has transferred to the downport?

In reply to Hayden Marks (msg #131):

I'm going to rule that Broker can be used as well.  I'm not sure what the rationale was for ruling broker could be used to find manufacturers but not freight shippers.

Also, please remember it's in the freight shippers' interest to find you too. :)  After all, they have goods to move.

'OOC Part One: Please remember the Free Republic has a strong sense of personal liberty.  Conducting credit checks, background checks, medical exams, drug tests, etc without that persons express permission is a violation of their rights and is technically against the law.'

Sorry - I was not aware his credit checks and background checks were against the law!  My character would not generally do something illegal unless he was ignorant of it.

As to the IC squabbling - was just carrying on RPing based on Hayden's response to Jim - as a Player I've no problems.  Just here to have fun - by all means if anyone had a problem with my roleplay/playing I am all ears.

Sorry - afraid I'm over RP-ing for character development and it looks too much like meta-gaming suspicion of the candidates, which really wasn't my intent.  (Fact is, if there were hidden agendas I'd prefer to find them out the hard way.)

Really meant the news searches/credit checks as fluff to make it sound like Jim was interested in helping out after his initial faux pas.

Given that he shouldn't have done those at all, in character (them being illegal and him being a local), could we perhaps edit that out?

Dr. Jones - you?  Meta-gaming?  Say it isn't so!  :)  Only the Referee can say what is appropriate to retcon (it would be pretty painful to excise everything as its mention is interspersed through a number of different posts in the IC thread).  But I would not sweat it at this point.  As you noted, we are all here to have fun.

With respect to checks, I would suggest staying with your strength and going to town on the medical exams (though get those releases first - so, you might want to wait until we offer them a job.  We could/should make the exam a contingency for employment - i.e. they have to pass the physical ... :)).  Whether or not those need to be public and IC is up to you and the Ref.

As for any squabbling, like the Ref, I know that the characters need/want/love to be able to differentiate themselves from each other (and varying opinions are one very good way to do that), but we are all supposed to have some history of knowing each other and working together (heck, Doc, you, Hayden and Danica go back at least 10+ years - I should know I helped write that connection verbiage) ... :)  So, while the players may have some rough edges about their working dynamics with each other (and with getting 'into character' - I know that I still do with Danica, sometimes), the characters should have less (if any) of those left to work out?

And while I know that there are plenty of examples in RL of many working and personal relationships between various people that are based on competition or complaining or overtly aggressive or sarcastic behavior, I am not sure that is entirely appropriate here (unless, of course, you and Hayden have discussed such things OOC privately first as to the IC dynamic that you want to set up - in which case, ignore me and my advice, please).

From my standpoint, too much sniping can be too much sometimes ...  But, obviously, that level of tolerance is different for everyone; so, please take my opinion with a large grain of salt.

---

Totally switching gears - with respect to finding a freight supplier, Danica has basic Streetwise and some Investigate skill (no Diplomat or Broker skill, though).  And her Int (though not her Edu) modifier is good.  So, she can also help out there as well.

What do you say, Jack?  Should we tag team?  Danica is fine with it either way (i.e. with or without her participating in that task).

Bertrand has both Streetwise and Investigate at acceptable levels, as well as other applicable skills. I can't keep up with your impressive posting rate at the moment, for various reasons, but I'm fine with running Bertrand as more of a supporting character for now so I don't kill your momentum.

Jack would definitely be down for a tag team situation but I don't want to hog all the prep stuff - Jack still gets to check vacc suits and check the launch - so maybe Bertrand and Danica should handle the freight checks for the maiden voyage ;)

In reply to Jacques Keveloh (msg #138):

Thera has spent half her adult life on the streets - not chasing freight suppliers, but hey, one enquiry's not much different from another - a supplier is a supplier, right? :)


BTW, Thera going it alone with the gunner is purely IC. I'd suggest the tables are close enough that Jack can follow the conversation and she can bring him in later?
This message was last edited by the player at 21:31, Fri 25 Feb 2011.

Sounds good, Jack will linger and wait for the signal ;)

In your defense, I didn't make that explicit.  No need to retcon, let's just move on.

Here's what Hayden has been able to track down for speculative trade.  Before you guys beat the streets too hard, let's see that RSS and Roycan have in mind as well.  With only 1 cargo hold available, we might be able to fill up without looking too hard.  Let's enjoy it while it lasts, I don't think it's going to be the same at a Class C starport...


This message was last edited by the player at 04:31, Sat 26 Feb 2011.

In reply to Hayden Marks (msg #142):

Just as a query, would Espiaux be 'dimly lit' by a Red Giant, even in orbit 9? I would imagine a simmeringly bright light, even if human eyes are not particularly attuned to the wavelength.
I was surprised to learn that light levels on Pluto are significantly brighter than a full moon on Earth, even from our lowly dwarf star.

If it works for the story, though, I don't have a problem with it. There could be all sorts of processes going on in a dying star that could drop its luminosity for generations. :)

FWIW, my guess is the exotic foodstuffs (olive oil, wine and cinnamon) would offer the most bang for the buck since Espiaux is a water world with an oxygen-poor atmo, and the capital (ie, seat of government = lots of high-SOC soirees...)

Although the construction items (crystaliron, marbles, machine tools) might be good too.

With respect to trade, it would seem that the more expensive (per ton/unit) materials are the higher margin/profit items - since the trade rules, pretty much abstract down to that level.  Making 10% per ton on 5,000 Cr (base) per ton is not nearly as profitable as making 10% on 50,000 Cr (base) per ton.  And with Hayden's broker and Int DMs I think that it is safe to wager that there will be more than a 10% differential in selling and purchasing prices.  I presume that the 'fair price' is the "base price" to be haggled down from ...:)

And while the trade codes for the various items do affect the prices somewhat, in this case, it seems that with only water planet as the code for Espiaux as our destination (well, besides "Jump Shadow" which I don't actually know how it affects the trade DMs), it makes Hayden's skill is the largest DM for pretty much all of the items listed (at least the most expensive).

Assuming that Hayden can get us about 20% profit margin (which is very conservative, actually, at 10% of purchase price and then 10% higher sale from the base/fair price - he should average actually average 20-25% on each end) - then that 20% needs to be more than the margin from hauling freight (i.e. 1200 Cr/ton here).  So, anything costing 6,000 Cr or less per ton is questionable.  If we go with the 25% on each end, then anything 1,200 Cr/ton or less is not worth it.

So, I guess the only other question is, whether it is optimal to buy the most expensive stuff (as much olive oil as possible and fill the rest with freight - which has very little/no capital cost - but fairly low profit margin as well - 1200 Cr/ton for a 2 parsec run) - or try to maximize the amount of speculative cargo we pack.

The main rules seem to favor the former (carry as much expensive cargo as possible) - then haul freight with the rest just to fill the hold (using tonnage to make something, rather than nothing).  The extreme is carrying 1 ton of radioactives and making a cool quarter-million credits on that alone (totally possible with Hayden's DMs and average rolls - buy at 375,000 Cr  and sell at 625,000 Cr on the other end).  Any margin from hauling 59 other tons of freight will not even touch that type profit (70,800 Cr (59x1200)).

Not that we have the option here - though we can almost approximate that with 10 tons of olive oil, probably...:).  So, I guess that is my short answer (which is not unlike Jack's - though, perhaps for slightly different reasons) - go with the olive oil or the marble (the most expensive items which presumably would have the highest margins).

Of course, the Ref has additional constraints on hauling cargo (especially fragile and perishable things - like say olive oil or marble?...:)) house ruled, I believe (or am I confusing games).

Oh, and Hayden, for the record, Danica is fine with being an 'authorized agent' (I'll post IC to that effect soon) - especially for liaising with brokers and such.  It is reasonable given her role on the ship as First Officer and the fact that hopefully she won't have to make an Broker rolls (which she would fail dismally).

Good analysis on both fronts.  There are several factors at play, so we need a bit more information before we commit to any buying.

1) At what point would we (or even could we) saturate a small market like Savigny, to the point that it would affect sales price.  There are a lot of small markets in this TU and knowing a bit more about any unique aspects of trade due to their size will be important overall.

2) How trade codes compare with planetary descriptions.  Jack’s suggestions regarding Oil, Wine and Cinnamon seem logical to me (outside of the meta-game rules) since all of these require a sizable amount of land to produce, which should be at a premium for Espiaux.   Admittedly, Savigny might be filling some of this need, but that’s secondary to the real issue – Are trade codes the end all be all to positive or negative DMs on the Actual Value Table (or what MGT calls the Modified Price Table), or do write ups, descriptions, and events within the game universe come into play in such a way that they create die modifiers to the AVT/MPT rolls?

3) There was something else but I lost my train of thought.. ARGH!

One thing to consider overall is that trade items that that generate a positive SALES DM should be a priority for us, given the fact that at the top end of the chart, an item can suddenly be worth 200, 300, or 400 percent of its value.  But even with excellent purchase DMs, you never receive a similar effect (it’s not like they pay you at the low end of the scale).

Regarding cost/ton, yes, the system definitely favors taking on more expensive cargos.  The lumber is a non-starter for example; even purchasing it at 25% of market value you would have to sell it at 145% percent just to achieve the same  earnings /ton as Core Rules freight (Merchant Prince rules are a bit different, but the point is the same).

From my point of view, we are probably best served by avoiding extremes when it comes to trade.  5 tons of oil and 55 tons of other speculative cargo would be better than 10 tons of oil and the rest freight, simply because in my experience extreme inputs to most systems generally result in extreme outputs, either good or bad.  A lot can happen between the buying and the selling.  Also, no one has perfect knowledge of a given market; we may show up and be very surprised if we put all of our eggs in one basket.

In effect, we are investing 400,000 or so credits.  If that were your IRA, you probably wouldn’t put it all in one stock.  Or at least I wouldn’t unless I had a time machine (and if you dialed that time machine to March 12 1986 and invested in shares of Microsoft – a $21 dollar share would be worth 7,200 USD today!)… lol

Not to mention that a diversity of cargo allows us to consult the AVT for each item separately.  Probability wise, this is a good thing.  It’s the same reason one of my Battle Tech friends carried 8 LRM-5 racks in his Archer instead of two 20 racks… When you fire off two 20 racks, you have only two chances for a hit or miss.  But rolling 8 times to hit means while you may not see dramatic results like smashing a mech with 20-40 missiles, but you will typically hit with something every combat round.  And I think that may serve us better; a solid stream of dependable income, as opposed to dramatic hits or misses in the market place.  At least at this stage.
This message was last edited by the player at 09:47, Sun 27 Feb 2011.

It occurs to me you guys may be consulting Merchant Prince, which I don't have for MGT yet... hence me sticking to the plot- and local color-based analysis. To be taken with a grain of salt, of course, unless Ref chimes in with a +2DM based on it ;)

To take the local color idea a bit further, Jack is the son of a retired Army officer who is now a gentleman farmer on their homeworld of Alsace... so Jack could have some insight into the quality of the foodstuffs up for sale, or call his father for advice, or work some of the family connections, etc etc. In fact, he has a database of local gourmands and fine wine producers/sellers throughout this region of space on his hand-comp... So I'd be interested to hear how much bearing that role-play/color has on the die rolls. Might only be applicable in a very few instances, but every little bit helps, right?

But anyway I just re-read Trade in the Core rules and looked at the charts and I think Hayden's got the right idea - spreading the risk over several small lots makes the most sense, especially if they are high-value items where 10% could be thousands of credits instead of hundreds, as Danica points out.

We also might qualify for a mail run - if I have it right we have a +2DM plus Rank/SOC bonuses to get it (looks like Hayden and Jack would each make it +3DM for 12+ on 2D). Not excellent chances but that last 5 tons of hold space at Cr5,000 each is not too bad.

Espiaux is the doc's home world, but I doubt he'd have any useful input into what trades well there - commerce not being one of his real interests.

Which I bring up mainly as Doc has about 50K to loan any player who needs something only likely to be available at Espiaux (IIRC it is the highest TL on our route).  Character wise he would likely do that - coming from a wealthy world (arrogant and paranoid too ;) and with medical talent the money doesn't mean much to him.

Also, I believe he's personally well geared (enough Sodium Pentothal I think - just kidding) - assuming the company pays bail and legal expenses ;)

I'm a bit behind due to not being here yesterday and there's been a bit posted in this thread, but I'll try to cover it as best I can.

Three over-arching thoughts with which to begin:

1) Using the system provided in Merchant Prince is a great starting point, but bear in mind it has its limitations.  It offers a good general baseline, but doesn't cover specific circumstances.  For example, it doesn't offer provisions for population, other worlds in system, existing level of trade and so on.  From the book's persepctive, there isn't much difference between trading to a pop 5 water-world with a farming colony and an isolated pop 10 waterworld.

2) Please remember you have the distinct misfortune of playing in a game where the Ref has a deep and abiding interest in Shipping.

3) Be wary of meta-gaming.  Because of the above two factors, I may decide to alter book DMs without prior notice.

Bearing those things in mind, the common sense approach is certainly valid.

The higher value, higher margin approach is also very valid.  Low value spec cargos are preferrable to an empty hold, but that's about it sometimes.



A couple real world examples which bound my thinking:

Bermuda (pop 4 - 68,000) - Not built for resource exploitation or self-sufficiency.  Imports 10,000-14,000tons per month, or 1ton per five inhabitants.  Exports 1/100th of imports, or 1ton per 500 inhabitants per month.  It's also a great example of the effects of level of trade.  It costs significantly more to ship a container to Bermuda than to Antwerp (over three times the distance) because only two ships service Bermuda, compared to hundreds servicing U.S.-Europe. (All figures 2008)

Vorkuta Gulag (pop 5 - 225,000) - Built for resource exploitation using slave labor, not built for self-sufficiency but standard of living in gulag camps very low.  Exported 200,000-250,000tons of coal per month, or roughly 1ton per inhabitant.  Imports unknown but thought to be about 15,000tons per month, or 1ton per 15-17 inhabitants. (All figures 1950)

One thing to remember, especially in this TU where shipping is scarce, is that planets in the Halowon sector have more incentives to be self-sufficient than the examples listed above.  Nevertheless, a planet like Savigny with a pop of just over one million would probably be starved for trade up to at least 10,000tons per month and be able to absorb 100,000tons, or so, of trade per month.

In Savigny's case, the vast majority of trade would be from Espiaux.  A single 95ton cargo shuttle could carry about 1,000tons per month, and much cheaper rates than a starship.  So, you might want to concentrate on items Savigny with its harsh climate and Espiaux covered in water can't provide each other.

In general, though, Gypsy Moth probably won't be able to saturate any planet over pop 3 with goods unless it brings a lot of one specfic, low demand good.  How many washing machines could Troy's Rock absorb?  Probably less than the 1200-2400 the ship could carry.



Trade codes are a start.  Write ups, descriptions, and events matter.  Grapes, for example, may not grow in Savigny's dry, dusty, windy climate, but some form of wood tree probably does.  Neither Espiaux nor Savigny may have silver-streaked marble, but they probably have some form of aggregate (for cement).  Espiaux may make appliances, but Alsace may have a cost advantage in production due to its larger labor pool and cheaper factory space.  Savigny and Espiaux could each certainly breed household pets, but maybe not chinchilas specifically.  Perhaps chinchilas are in fashion at the moment (if not this might be one trade good where Gypsy Moth could exceed demand - how many Chinchilas per ton anyway?)



Don't worry, me too. :)



Yes, diversification helps mitigate risk.

Also, for anyone interested in setting "popcorn and chrome", the Svetlanan Royal Navy has been added to the "Militaries and Merchants" thread.

Hayden and the Ref make great points, I am not trying to be the authority here.  I am sorry, if that appeared to be my intent - it was not.

I will note that I am not sure exactly what the Ref means by "meta-gaming" here - I endeavor to use the rules to inform the RP, and use the OOC to try and hash out ideas that would otherwise not be understood in an IC context (or taken for granted/never questioned - presumably like gravity - or in Traveller, anti-gravity).  In this case, the dictum of "buy low, sell high" is taken to the extreme, undoubtedly.

That said, the trade system in Traveller is very abstract and rudimentary at best, and if the Ref feels the need to beef it up - then that is fine by me.  Not only is it his game and TU, but there is nothing wrong with adding more detail and realism to that aspect.

Hayden's strategy of diversification seems eminently sensible to me.  It also seems to make better RP.  I am all for it.

Thanks, all that info is helpful.  Of course sometimes answers just lead to more questions...

Perhaps now would be a good time to quiz the ref for all the info we can get based on what our characters know of the game world and their experiences!

I'll start, feel free to jump in and remember, the goal is to identify cargo that will make us money!

1) Since Hayden's from Savigny and his folks were free trader/merchants, I'm guessing he has some familiarity with what's grown and traded on Sav.  Are any of the goods offered through the suppliers on Alsace especially rare or common on Savigny?

2) Do I remember olive trees growing on Sav?  Did I climb up trees that smelled like cinnamon in my youth?

3) As a trained and experienced steward, do I know what kind of wine pares well with Cuttlefin?  Redwine goes with lobster, so I've got my fingers crossed on this one.  Does olive oil compliment cuttlefin flavor?

4) I'm incorporating all of Jack's questions to his father by reference!  :)

Also, I plan on hitting the computer nets hard while we are deciding what to pursue; let me know if you want these here or in character:

1) Google the top 10 crops of Savigny and Espiaux.

2) Looking for any trendsetters (celebrities, designers, politicians, etc.) here or there who have Chinchillas as pets.

3) Check where in FRE space silver streaked marble is mined.

PS: When we go to meet suppliers, I'd like for any SME (subject matter expert) to please come.  Jack, you've become the SME for foodstuffs.. lol  And Jim and Dani should come if we check out the computers components, etc.  It might be fun watching Jim try to examine Chinchillas to make sure they are fit enough to transport... :)
This message was last edited by the player at 10:05, Mon 28 Feb 2011.

LOL, I can't see us shipping anything that requires Thera's SME...

LOL - thought Chinchillas was some sort of Mexican food!

Meta-game - I'm good with whatever Hayden's player comes up with concerning trade.  During the game I'm more interested in what makes sense (or is at least fun) character and settings wise.

On that note -> Chinchillas definitely get my vote for RP factor!  Maybe Thera (and/or better yet - Danica!) find Chinchillas 'absolutely adorable' :)

Doc might know - or think he knows (arrogance) - whether Espiax-ians find such critters repulsive or not.  Unless they are in cryo or something, someone would have to take care of them.  Doc is generally ok with animals (well better than with people, some might say) and would not be adverse.  Though he'd reserve the right to bitch and belly ache. :)

[Aside: Looking at a web site - maybe ~50 to 75 per dton with supplies?]

IC-wise, 'I'm not a businessman damn-it!', though Hayden may want to ask him about Espiaux tastes and such. I was attempting to RP the doc as someone adverse to taking on other hats, yet easily drawn into doing anything - reluctant and often a pain, but generally tries to be helpful when he can. Having checked out everything that really interests him regarding the ship, Jim would be bored. Might be best if he tagged along with Hayden so he doesn't get into any more trouble and on the off chance he has something useful to contribute being originally from Espiax...

Sorry, a better word may have been "mechanical".  I would like to RP opportunities in trading, like what Hayden is doing in msg #152 and Jack a few messages before that.  Too often, in my opinion, is trading in Traveller reduced to a series of die rolls, entirely mechanistic.

Even when characters have done their research and are confident in their bargaining, there should always be a slight catching of breath when they hand over hundreds of thousands of credits.  Something like, "When they shook hands to seal the deal, he had to suppress a triumphant smile.  He was sure he had gotten the best possible price and, as long as fashions hadn't changed on n, this would be a very rewarding run."

When it is devolved entirely to the mechanics in the book, it is too often, Player A, "Well I rolled a 16 and there's a +3 Sales DM because x is a Desert world so we'll make at least y profit."  Player B, "We should hire a broker because that adds an additional +4 DM for only 20% commission.  Then we're guranteed at least a z percent profit."

You're right that the rules are a basis for common understanding, but as Ref I want the latitude to reward good roleplaying, especially when it helps make the setting more alive like Hayden's questions about olive trees on Savigny or Jack's father.

Of course, if roleplaying any given activity is too tedious, then we should work together to make sure the game keeps flowing.  If you all feel it's bogging the game down we can curtail the trading and move on.

Savigny imports all the basic industrial goods listed (computer components, crystaliron, appliances, machine tools) and Alsace products are often competitive as Espiaux products tend to be over-engineered and quite expensive.  Savigny has a modest, but declining apparel industry.  Espiaux does not.

Savigny smelts aluminum, but refinery production is down recently for re-tooling.  Aggregate for cement is common.  Shipping cement to Savigny would be like coal to Newcastle.

Savigny grows dry climate fruits (mostly melons, dates, figs, apples, etc), but not wetter climate fruits (coconut, guava, mango, papaya, banana, oranges, etc).

The climate on Savigny is good for cotton, but the lack of broad plains makes large-scale farming of it uneconomical.  Savigny produces wool while Espiaux produces synthetic fibers.



Olive groves are a common sight on the wind-sheltered terraces of Savigny.  If the olive oil is to compete it will have to do so on the basis of brand or cost.  Fresh olive prices can be more volatile, depending on the current crop, than preserved olive prices or olive oil.  Cinnamon trees will not grow on Savigny, but cinnamon isn't used much as a spice in Savigny or Espiaux cuisine.



Red wines do indeed go with cuttlefin.  Olive oil goes very well with cuttlefin and other seafoods and is integral to local cuisine.  Basil is also a commonly used spice.



According to Jack's father, the wine in question is a bad year of a good wine. I think the other agricultural products are covered above and below.



Espiaux produces no crops other than various varieties of kelp, which are used for vegetable produce, animal feed, and processed as inputs for synthetics.  For protein, there is an extensive fishing industry on Espiaux that covers products from slurry for fertilizer to gourmet cuttlefin.

Savigny's factor endowments tend towards crops and livestock which thrive in dry or mediterranean climes: olives, pepper trees, dry fruits, melons, some hardy strains of wheat, cactus, and barley.  For animals, sheep and goats are most common though other livestock does exist.  Livestock feed tends to be fish-products based where possible.



Chinchilas, and other small animals, are popular as housepets on Espiaux due to limited living space.  They are somewhat trendy at the moment.  Natural fibers such as cotton are also trendy.



The only commercial silver streaked marble quarry in known space is in the Sunderland province on Alsace.  Fine finishings, polished woods, granite, marble, high quality fixtures etc, are popular on Espiaux.  Since there are limits to how big domiciles can be, people compensate with ornate appointments.  Several types of wood are harvested on Savigny, but long, straight-grain hardwoods are rare.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:08, Mon 28 Feb 2011.

The previous post can be considered the result of the collective inquires of the group and will take until the end of Day 353 to accumulate.

Very nice details Ref.


It probably doesn't need to be said - but I'm always game for RP. ;)

That said, I'm also fine with whatever everyone else wants or stopping the RP at any point.

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #158):

On a separate subject, since you're basically moved aboard now (unless anyone specifically wants to remain in a hotel), everyone please choose staterooms:

#1 - in nose, adjacent to bridge
#2 - port side, nearest to nose
#3 - stbd side, VIP stateroom
#4 - port side, adjacent to sickbay
#5 - port side, fwd of ship's locker
#6 - port side, with access to engineering
#7 - stbd side, fwd of engineering

In reply to Referee (msg #159):

Well, although Thera would love to luxuriate in the VIP room, she will assume/propose that it will be reserved for the carriage of VIPs or perhaps booked by different crewmembers in rotation or on the basis of 'need'. She is well aware of the importance of a double bed. ;)

She will also assume/propose that the forward cabin should be for the pilot and the rearward one for the chief engineer.

For herself, she figures the sensible choice is ahead of the locker, adjacent to what appears to be a dorsal turret, since she's a gunner. #5 on the list.

I'm all ears for counter proposals on the trade goods list.  If you've got a different take, please don't hesitate to say so.  A rank ordered list (this first, then this, followed by this), would be helpful.  We have to meet with the sellers, and it could take 2-4 hours each.  We don't want our most critical deals to be our last deals.

As for quarters and berths, keep in mind that double bunking will be the norm.  So you girls don't have to sleep together, but you'll have to sleep with someone... :)

Hayden will reserve the #2, #3, and #4 staterooms for passangers.  Depending on how many crew we take on, we'll adjust that later, but for now, best to consider those blocked off.  That puts the crew in either the forward nose compartment, or the reward upper deck compartment just foward of engineering.  Both of those areas are behind hatches, which provide more security than iris valves or standard doors.

Also, with passangers in any of those staterooms (#2, #3, #4), locking out the elevator won't be possible (they will need to go to the galley below, workout room, etc.), so in effect, that area will be part of the passanger space below.
This message was last edited by the player at 12:23, Tue 01 Mar 2011.

List looks excellent to me Hayden!

Aside from profitability/ROI risk addressing - most should ship very well (in the, uh unlikely, event of unusual environmental calamities ;). Excepting maybe 10 tons of Chinchillas.  Perhaps just 1 or 2 of those - and, unless they come with their own life support/self-care, maybe they can be carried in the aft crew section area (fore of engineering).

Assume we will be actively soliciting a VIP or VIP couple for our maiden voyage (with appropriate public announcement and legwork as needed).  IIRC, the crew cabins are of a less posh nature and mixing VIP passenger(s) with lower rent passenger quarters seems kinda odd. It also sounds like we are gonna need them for added crew.

Ship being a nominal 24x7 operation, maybe we should consider cabins role-wise and with that in mind?  Tend to expect the captain should have his own quarters.  Danica and Jack near the bridge as pilot and co-pilot/astrogation, Thera near the VIP quarters (backup Steward), Doc near the Sickbay with easy access to other areas of the ship (for medical and mechanical reasons) and Bertrand near the guns.

Can Hayden on the bridge; Danica/Thera sharing quarters near VIP/Bridge; Doc and Jack sharing near sickbay; Bertrand sharing Engineering accessible (ship security wise) room with chief engineer redshirt.  Added redshirts near engineering and ammo/guns.

One note: The VIP stateroom is certainly up to high passage standards (or high passage plus with the adjoining office), but the crew staterooms are more middle passage accomodations.




Just a reminder: the terms of the deal with Dupont bankwere that you wouldn't carry any other passengers this trip.  You can try to skirt the terms of the deal if you wish...

Ah - misread that to mean lower deck passenger quarters only.

Though, that is in line with a recommendation that we might inquire of Dupont if they could make use of the VIP quarters or recommend potential approved travelers and allow their use.  News of our 'escort' should make them happy at any rate...

No real preference on the stateroom, but proposing #5 for Jack (nearest to the bridge possible).

Glad we RP'ed the trade talk - much more interesting discovering Savigny/Espiaux vs Alsace than  -DMs vs +DMs!

List looks good, Hayden.

Couple questions: Are we sure the chinchillas are live animals? If so, do we really want TEN tons of them? As the good Dr mentioned, maybe just a ton or two.

If we drop the chinchillas to a couple tons, should we reconsider the hardwoods? Ref said: Several types of wood are harvested on Savigny, but long, straight-grain hardwoods are rare. Maybe the margin would be higher than we thought?

I hope 'chinchilla' is not Galanglic for 'tribble' :o

Can we please use the list above when referring to staterooms.  There are multiple crew berths in the deck plans listed as #5, which is creating a bit of confusion I think.  Again, rooms #2, #3, #4 are blocked until we finalize crewing.

I appreciate the comments about VIPs not being on the same floor with common middle passengers, but real VIPs may have people they want to stick in those rooms; personal assistance, secretary, seneschal, valets, bodyguard, court jester, family dog, whatever.  At the very least, even if we don't use them for passenger at all, assignments to those berths should be made with crew social status and skills in mind.  If you think that a VIP doesn't want to interact with a mid passenger, imagine their horror at an interaction with our curmudgeon of a doctor in the hallway after a night of drinking or before coffee.  ;)  Not to promote 57th century stereotypes, but none of you Scout types need to be hanging out in that hallway; with your odd behaviors, hygiene problems second only to belters, and lack of social skills.  lol

As for our first trip, we won't be carrying any passengers except security personnel that DuPont bank is placing aboard.  That's part of the deal and going back and asking for a chance may open things up to renegotiations, which is not in our interest.  I'm sure part of the 35,000 credits I was able to get on-top of an already good deal, was because we would be leaving passenger space open.  It's a good point to get concessions on.  In any event, from a meta-game perspective the odds of me rolling better than a 10 on any kind of renegotiation are slim.  Given that we may not find a VIP passenger at all, we'd be trading a sure thing (well negotiated and quite lucrative) for nothing in hand.  It's just not good business.  Show me a VIP passenger willing to pay 35,000 Cr for a trip to Espiaux and I’ll grab a pair of die and give it a shot.

Hardwood values are only 1000 per ton, so we are better off taking freight, unless we expect they garner 300 to 400% of their value, which is unlikely.  Even if we pay 25% of the fair value, and achieve a 400% market value on Espiaux, that still only nets us 3,750 Cr/ton, which is basically the same as a 40% net margin on a 10,000 Cr/ton lot of cargo, which is probably a more realistic margin overall.

As for Chinchillas, I'd rather drop all of them or have enough to make it worth our while.  If we are going to have to care for live animals, there's no sense doing so for 1-2 tons.  I expect that this component of our cargo will take a lot of our time and effort to coddle and the input of time won’t correlate directly to the amount.  If someone needs to check on chinchillas 3 times a day, distribute food, water, and clean waste, doing that for 10 ton of Chinchillas is probably not much more onerous than 1 ton.  The real cost is taking someone way from other duties to check on chinchillas at all.  You pay that burden with the first ton of Chinchillas... Might was well achieve efficiencies of scale with additional tons.

Bottom line, from my POV we are either in the Chinchilla business, or we are not.

Unless Hayden wants it (he is Captain after all), Danica would prefer to have stateroom #1, since it is closest to the bridge and she is pilot.  Barring that, she is fine with any of the staterooms towards the back, they are all pretty much equidistant from the bridge.

And she is pretty much fine with any potential roommates (though Thera may be the best to room with Dani, since they are the only two women).  E.g. if it makes the most sense to have the pilot and navigator bunk in room #1, i.e. all primary bridge crew up front, Dani would be fine with that.  Or she would be fine with doubling with Hayden (assuming he does not want a single - Captain's prerogative) - whatever makes sense.

---

With respect to speculative trade loads - the list:

  10 tons Silver Streaked Marble
  10 tons Chinchillas,
  10 tons Aluminum,
  10 tons Computer Components,
  10 tons Machine Tools,
  10 tons Spun Cotton (or RSS Tupolev freight lot?)

seems fine.  A great balance, especially given the social, political and economic climates in the Espiaux system.   I am quite enamored with Hayden's ploy to take the RSS freight lot to Tupolev (assuming it is an appropriate size) in lieu of the spun cotton.

P.S. RL, My sister loved her pet chinchilla, Fabio.  I'll have to channel her enthusiasm when we have 10 tons of the fast little blighters on board.  As a I recall, they are actually quite fragile (and very, very skittish) especially when transporting en masse - as many rodents are.

From a security viewpoint, Thera and I are not happy with having passengers on the crew deck. A single VIP (and partner?) may be a risk worth taking, for the income and more importantly the kudos, but a VIP with his own security staff on the crewdeck? No way!
If it were my ship, I'd rather do without the extra revenue (except in desperation) than have unknown civvies on the crewdeck. If you want to argue this out IC, we can. :)

Thera isn't prudish about doubling up if it's necessary for staffing levels and skill quotas, but she will view it as an inconvenience, and if it's an inconvenience brought about by what she sees as a security breach rather than crew requirements, she'll be even less happy. Again, this can be discussed IC if you wish.

IC and OOC I'm not really into trade, so I'd prefer to sit out most of the trade negotiations, if that's ok?
Except that Thera will offer to speculate a little from her own pocket if that's helpful or permitted.

Let's make this easy, I'll take the VIP suite, you guys can pick whatever else you want, and we take passengers only on the lower deck.  That's the most secure way to operate since it allows Hayden to keep the ship's paperwork and operating funds in the Captain's or Pursers safe, and keeps all passengers, VIP or not, off the crew deck.
This message was last edited by the player at 16:38, Wed 02 Mar 2011.

The earlier post about celebrities implied you might put it to other uses, but had originally assumed VIP quarters would be the captain's with the attached office our normal 'secure' meeting place, given the redshirts.  It also being good for meetings with our contacts and informers and giving our intelligence types somewhere to keep free of bugs.

Doc will take room #4 - whoever wants the challenge is welcome to be a roommate ;)

Switching to OOC IC comment mode:

Scratching his chin stubble, "What hygiene problems?  I'm a doctor darn it!"
Dr. Jones walks away, scratching somewhere else...

In reply to Hayden Marks (msg #169):

<checks deckplan> Ah, now there's a possibility for a future alteration - if the VIP room had a door separate from the office, it could be used purely for a VIP/rota and the office could remain an office/stakeholders' den.

As I understand it, we have six 'stakeholders' (PCs) and we're looking to take on three or so hirelings, so by my reckoning, even without the VIP cabin, there should be around three crew in single occupancy and three in double occupancy. Unless I've missed something, which is quite possible.

Thera is still going for #5 on the Ref's shortlist.

Sorry Thera, missed your original claim to that stateroom, proposing the starboard stateroom forward of engineering for Jack, #7 on the list.

In reply to Jacques Keveloh (msg #172):

OK, with all players except Bertrand having responded, this is what I have for now:


#1 - in nose, adjacent to bridge                 Danica
#2 - port side, nearest to nose                  (empty)
#3 - stbd side, VIP stateroom                    Hayden
#4 - port side, adjacent to sickbay              Dr. Jones
#5 - port side, fwd of ship's locker             Thera
#6 - port side, with access to engineering       (empty)
#7 - stbd side, fwd of engineering               Jack


IF you hire 2 NPCs, each of the stakeholders could still enjoy single occupancy.  If you hire 3 or more a PC will have to share.

When you do come across VIPs willing to pay premium prices, Hayden may have to move in with someone else temporarily.  As it stands, though, the ship's office is a nice luxury for conducting discrete business.

Hmmm... as noted before, Danica is more than willing double up with Jack or Thera (or even Hayden - though I honestly think that the Captain should get his own stateroom... - but only him alone, probably).  She has plenty of shared barracks experience and is more than willing to put up with others (as long as they can put up with her).

Although, perhaps for this trip to Espiaux single occupancy is allowed (no passengers anyways).  However, in the future - we are going to have to take on passengers to maintain our cover (aren't we?) and that means some double occupancy...

I would think that the following would be a reasonable arrangement:

  #1 - in nose, adjacent to bridge                 Danica and Jack
  #2 - port side, nearest to nose                  (empty)
  #3 - stbd side, VIP stateroom                    (empty)
  #4 - port side, adjacent to sickbay              (empty)
  #5 - port side, fwd of ship's locker             Thera and Bertrand
  #6 - port side, with access to engineering       (empty) - Chief Engineer and mate
  #7 - stbd side, fwd of engineering               Dr. Jones and Gunner/3rd NPC

Then Hayden can have his pick of the three staterooms that are left (even the VIP one - at least, when it is not occupied).  The Bridge crew can be isolated.  The gunners are nearest to access for at least one of the turrets (though the other turrets are in the nose - so, no way around that).

An alternate would put Danica and Thera together, if it is desirable to have the women 'isolated' from any men (it's not like there are freshers in every stateroom anyways as depicted) in either stateroom #1 or #5 (to give one of them close access to their specialty - the bridge or a turret).  To wit:

  #1 - in nose, adjacent to bridge                 Danica and Thera
  #2 - port side, nearest to nose                  (empty)
  #3 - stbd side, VIP stateroom                    (empty)/Hayden
  #4 - port side, adjacent to sickbay              (empty)
  #5 - port side, fwd of ship's locker             Jack and Bertrand
  #6 - port side, with access to engineering       (empty) - Chief Engineer and mate
  #7 - stbd side, fwd of engineering               Dr. Jones and Gunner/3rd NPC

or:

  #1 - in nose, adjacent to bridge                 Hayden
  #2 - port side, nearest to nose                  (empty)
  #3 - stbd side, VIP stateroom                    (empty)
  #4 - port side, adjacent to sickbay              Dr. Jones and Jack
  #5 - port side, fwd of ship's locker             Danica and Thera
  #6 - port side, with access to engineering       (empty) - Chief Engineer and mate
  #7 - stbd side, fwd of engineering               Bertrand and Gunner/3rd NPC

With a crew of 9 (6 PC's + 3 NPCs (2 engineers and one gunner) we are going to occupy 5 staterooms minimum (out of 7).  I don't see any way around that.  Feel free to throw rocks at the arrangements.  I think that we all need to be.... er... on-board with some sort of cramped arrangement contingency.

In reply to Danica Moreau (msg #174):

IC, Thera would rather not bunk with a man - any man. It's nothing personal, just mental associations that she doesn't want to dredge up.

She'll do it if she has to, but there'll be friction... ;)

That's fine.  Then go double occupancy with Danica (we even have history - so, that could be fun!).  If we take Stateroom #1 (assuming Hayden doesn't want it) - you'll be close to the forward turrets and close to any VIP's staying in the upper suites (good for your cover, if you are in fact supposed to be Stewardess/Hospitality...).

As I said, I am fine with that as well.

Otherwise, you may have to double up with either Hathorn or Prisa (or, possibly, Tamara or Dagala) if they get hired...

In reply to Referee (msg #173):

Well, for the Espiaux run since #2 is open, Jack would probably be better there as Danica's relief on the bridge. So we would have (before Bertrand's choice):

#1 - in nose, adjacent to bridge                 Danica
#2 - port side, nearest to nose                  Jack
#3 - stbd side, VIP stateroom                    Hayden
#4 - port side, adjacent to sickbay              Dr. Jones
#5 - port side, fwd of ship's locker             Thera
#6 - port side, with access to engineering       (probably Chief Engineer)
#7 - stbd side, fwd of engineering               (probably Bertrand)

No problem here with double-occupancy, however Hayden and Danica see fit. No prefs/concerns on roommates either, so Danica and Jack could share #1 when the time comes (seems to make the most sense, as an example).

If we hire a third Gunner and an Engineering Mate, we have a crew of nine (!) running a 400-ton ship... seems like a lot to me, but I guess we don't have a lot of skill cross-over either.

FYI: Got a lot of pans in the fire in RL this week, so posting may be sparse till the weekend.

Looks like the hold is filling fast :)

If we get to it, Doc can act as 'expert' regarding Chinchillas, Aluminum, Computers Components and Machine Tools given his various skills.

I'm starting to think Chinchillas might be a problem for us.  Let me know what you guys think, but the risk of quarantine alone means they need to be pretty high on the reward side to make it worthwhile.  And I'm not sure that's going to be the case.  Anyway, I'm thinking this is the first cargo we give a pass to.  We are either in or out, and I'm thinking out given all the factors involved.  Dissenting opinions welcome.

I'm not going to dissent.  Anything live seems to have special issues.  Besides the risk of quarantine, there is the continual upkeep.  If you roll poorly at one port to sell the marble, it takes up space for the extra time to either find another buyer or jump on, but that is it.  It can be painful and cut into your margin, but not like daily maintenance and the cost (and space) of feed for any livestock.

It seems to me, that not finding a buyer in Espiaux for the chinchillas would be really bad ju-juTM.  Selling them at the port after that, is not really an option - We would have to buy even more feed and spend another 40+ man hours over the 1+ weeks to care for them.  Which, in turn, means, we need an even bigger profit to cover those additional accumulating costs.  Something that seems unlikely the further we travel.  Plus, if we aren't breeding them, then the further we go with them, presumably the less there will be eventually (though maybe that is abstracted out...).

And while I'll admit chinchillas are quite cute (RL, OOC, and probably even IC), I am not sure they are the most prudent investment.

I agree. Dump the chinchillas - too much chance of something going bad somewhere along the way. Live animals could mean heavy inspections and Newell's side of things may not appreciate that. Besides, how do you exercise 5,000 chinchillas for two or three weeks?!

I was thinking up a 'Jack fakes a call and secretly texts the captain PLEASE NO' post for the IC thread as I was reading Ref's lead-in but luckily it moved pretty quick ;)

In reply to Jacques Keveloh (msg #181):

One, maybe two, housetrained chinchillas = cute.

10 dT of squabbling territorial chinchillas converting their own body mass of feedstock into dung every day = PITA.

This made me laugh: "He remains silent, willing the chinchillas to transform into aluminum ingots."

Oh, I very definitely think Chinchillas could be a problem! :)

Economically, never saw Chinchillas as viable - they represent a high risk speculative cargo, at best.  From the get go, couldn't see any sane Merchant with options taking them on.

However, they do represent game goodness!

For profit, they make no sense and can't see carrying ten tons eating up precious cargo space - maybe a small number and in the crew spaces.  For fun, and interesting opportunities, they are enticing.  The real question, and PC motivation challenge, is why would this crew carry them?  Some thoughts:
 As cover - what spy ship would want the hassle?
 As gifts - unique, 'luxury' items; bribes?
 As 'spys' - human-like auditory system; trainable; messengers
 As Distractions - keep doc busy; let 'em loose in a starport

One can't help but see lots of opportunities for Referee shenanigans - but there are also interesting PC options as well not to mention RP. ;)

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #184):

All,
I'm really enjoying this game and think we have a good pace going and some great roleplaying.  Unfortunately, I will be RL traveling for the next two weeks and will not have internet access.

Hopefully this isn't too much of an inconvenience for everyone.  We'll pick back up in two weeks.

Ditto on the game, pace and RP -> add excellent Ref-ing ;)

Have a good trip!

Have a safe trip, Ref.  Come back to us when you can.

In reply to Danica Moreau (msg #187):

We'll be waiting. Don't buy any chinchillas... :)

In reply to Thera Santorini (msg #188):

All,
Disregard.  Decided boarding a flight to Norita today wasn't a good idea. :(
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:20, Fri 11 Mar 2011.

Good call.  Though, my thoughts and well wishes go out to the victims of the quake and the citizens of Japan...

Indeed. :(

Ok, it looks like we are going to have enough working capital funds to make the machine tools purchase, and that's about it.

So if anyone is interested in purchasing computer parts for spec trade, we'll can use a mechanism similar to the shadow fund used in CT The Traveller Adventure to make it happen.

The way it would work is this: those who are interested (it's voluntary) and have the money (it takes capital), can pony up into a kitty, that is then used to purchase the computer components.  The fund is also used to pay all nominal charges (broker fees, stevedore, etc.) and, most importantly, standard freight charges for transport (which keeps the ship’s books happy).  Once the purchase is complete, the sales are distributed on a pro-rata basis (i.e. You put 1/3 of the total monies in, you get 1/3 out).  Of course this means losses and profits are distributed on a pro-rata basis.

It's strictly optional, but I know a few folks mustered out with a good amount of cash and have mentioned that it's available for investments.  This is a good mechanism to put it to work.  Let me know what you guys thing.  If it seems popular, I'll post IC about it.

In reply to Hayden Marks (msg #192):

I'm up for it. I have no idea how good an investment computer parts would be (and to be honest I can't be bothered researching through the setting data to figure it out) but that's realistic, since Thera would have no idea either, she'd rely on her colleagues' knowledge -if experienced traders are investing, it's probably as safe as it gets.

Alright, trying this again, but not routing through Japan.  I'll be back in two weeks.

Good luck and travel safe!

Indeed, good luck and safe travels!

Since we have a little down time, should we discuss the crew hires a bit? I know we have an interview or two still pending but thought we could start getting closer to some final decisions.

I'll throw out Orcutt as Chief Engineer and Gadron as his Second. I think they'd compliment each other well and have most of the Engineering section (except M-Drive) covered between the two of them. The rub here is Gadron's six month time limit but that seems plenty long enough to finish Newell's first assignment at least. Also Orcutt's medical condition may be an issue.

Not feeling that Dr. Hathorn is a good fit at all. Jack's Pathfinder buddies gave him a strong warning about her personality and besides, she'd likely replace Jack on the bridge which would be, ummm... undesirable for Jack ;)

Not sure we need a third gunner. If we do, I think Charpentier is young but could grow into a good crewmate it seems. Menkin seems pretty bland and uninspiring. But I'll wait until we interview Nino Stern before passing judgment on this position.

In reply to Jacques Keveloh (msg #197):

Good point about using the down time. Why didn't I think of that? :)

Orcutt and Gadron seem ok to me, though I'm more worried about Orcutt's personality than his injuries - you can heal injuries...

I agree about Hathorn, her personality is even worse than Orcutt's. I reckon she'd be a real handful when the chips hit the fan.
All you really want from an NPC is a useful skillset and a willingness to follow orders. I'm not convinced she has either asset.

I've lost the plot a little. Am I right in thinking we have two functional turrets, and two gunners whose skills don't require them to be elsewhere during a space battle? If so, we probably don't need a third gunner right now, but it might be useful to have at least one redshirt we can send in to scout out dodgy situations, and if that redshirt has other useful skills, so much the better...

Actually, we have three turrets.  2 turrets on the front chin (railguns) and on top of the ship, I believe.  There is space/a hardpoint for another turret, but that has not been installed/utilized yet.

So, in theory, we could use one more gunner.

Last I checked, Gypsy Moth has three operational turrets out of four, one being capped.

EDIT:
From the 'Gypsy Moth' thread:

Turret 1: double turret, two 5.5cm hypervelocity railguns, 30 rounds of ammo
Turret 2: double turret, two 5.5cm hypervelocity railguns, 30 rounds of ammo
Turret 3: plated over hardpoint – no turret or weapons
Turret 4: double turret, one beam laser (accurate), one sandcaster, 20 rounds of ammo
~

So we have gunners for two of three operational turrets.
This message was last edited by the player at 07:24, Thu 24 Mar 2011.

IIRC, we don't actually need any NPC's to crew the ship, but having a dedicated Engineer* makes sense and an extra gunner might come in handy.

NPCs to man the ship while we are away, and even able to rescue our asses pilot the ship to us might be nice.

Redshirts can make useful shrapnel catchers lookouts and anyone with decent hand to hand skills might come in handy.


(*At least three of us have the equivalent of Engineer(any)-0, if not Engineer(any)-1 with stat DMs, but it would be preferable if the Captain, Pilot and Doc weren't required in the engine spaces.)

Thanks, I think it was the third turret being sealed that threw me. I didn't register the fourth at all.
Ok, as I see it we need three gunners, a pilot, a navigator and an engineer simultaneously during combat, plus a couple of gophers for damage control, yes?
And for dirtside adventures we need one or more redshirts and someone to ship-sit / bring in the cavalry?

So I believe we're looking for an engineer and a gunner specifically, and as much muscle and 'yes sir' attitude as we can get.

My shortlist is (reliable) Gadron for engineer / space monitor, (battlewise) Padabig for gunnery / redshirt, and (martial artist) Aksina for engineer / redshirt.
It's just coincidence that they're all female. Hopefully later we could replace Gadron with a more qualified engineer when she wants to leave. We have six months to find one.

I can't see Hathorn and Orcut obeying orders, and the others have fewer useful skills than these three. Even Orcut only has two Eng-1 skills against Gadron's one, and neither of them has M-drive skill. Is it worth putting up with his cynicism 24-7 for the sake of an extra +1 on the odd occasion we get engineering damage in his pet area?

I've put the basic interview information in a single post for us here. Did I miss anyone?

---

Dagala Aksina arrives punctually at the time of her interview.  She is about 173cm (5'8"), inderterminate weight, angular, and muscular.  Her handshake is firm and hard and her movement is graceful and cat-like.  She seems to have an eye for detail and she pays attention to everyone's name and face as she meets them.

She is wearing dark slacks, flats, a neutral grey blouse and fashionable, short jacket.  Her outfit looks good for "off-the-rack."  Her smile is polite.  She clearly recalls Jack and Thera, if Thera is present, and thanks them for arranging this interview.

A credentials review on Aksina reveals:

Education: Secondary School
Athletics(endurance)-1  (distance runner)
Broker-0
Computers-0
Drive-0
Engineer-0
Gun Combat(slug pistols)-1+
Mechanic-1
Medic-1
Melee(unarmed)-4?
Pilot(smallcraft)-1
Steward-? (presumed)
Vacc Suit-1
Zero G-?

---

Tamara Padabig is casually dressed, stands about 167cm (5'6"), and appears physically fit.  She smiles and greets the crew, "Wow, nice ship.  A lot better than I'm used to.  Tamara Padabig reporting for interview."

A credentials review indicates:

Education: Secondary school
Athletics-0 (presumed)
Drive-0
Explosives-0
Gun Combat(slug rifles)-1
Gunner(ortillery)-1
Heavy Weapons(launchers)-1
Medic-0
Melee(blade)-1
Recon-1+
Remote Ops-1
Social Science-0
Stealth-0 (presumed)
Tactics-0 (presumed)
Vacc Suit-0

Her combat resume is impressive, with tours on Perseus and Vauclain.  She appears to have worked as a scout (army style) for most of her professional time.

---

Dr. Syren Hathorn arrives at the ship exactly at 0800.  She is tall, perhaps 180cm (5'11), though her fashionable high heels at at least aonther 7cm to her height.  She is also slender, attractive, and very self-assured.  Her hair is waist length, pulled back neatly, and is indeed platinum blonde.  Her dark blue blouse is high-quality and elegant, as is her knee length skirt.

She gingerly steps over the airlock entrance and steps into the passenger lounge.  She introduces herself smoothly, "Doctor Syren Hathorn, it is a pleasure to meet you."

A credentials review on her reveals:

Education: Doctorate, Master's, 2 Bachelor's
Admin-? (presumed)
Astrogation-2+ (at least)
Comms-0
Computer-1
Engineer(jump)-1
Life Science-0
Navigation-0
Physical Science-0
Pilot(spacecraft)-1
Sensors-1
Space Science-0
Vacc Suit-0

---

Prisa Gadron is short and trim, about 162cm (5'4") and maybe 50kg.  She does not appear to be much of a physical specimen, but her eyes are alert and intelligent.

She arrives ten minutes before her scheduled interview.  She introduces herself, "Prisa Gadron", but does not extend her hand.

A credentials review indicates:

EDU: Bachelor's
Astrogation-1
Comms-1
Computer-1
Discipline-0+ (presumed)
Engineer(Jump)-1
Gun Combat-0
Mechanic-0
Medic-1
Melee(blade)-1 (presumed)
Navigation-1
Pilot-0
Remote Ops-1
Space Science-0 (her major)
Tactics(naval)-? (presumed)
Vacc Suit-0
Zero G-0

It also appears Ms. Gadron is still in the Navy, but is approved for a one year leave of absence from the service.

---

Nino Stern arrives five minutes prior to his morning interview time.  Nino stands 185cm+ (6'2") and masses at least 100kg.  His suit looks off-the-rack and doesn't conceal his muscular frame.  He has a small scar below his left ear and his hands are rough, as if he's more used to blue-collar than white-collar work.  Nevertheless, he carries himself professionally.

He introduces himself in a steady, confident voice, "Nino Stern, CETI Lines.  Nice of you to have me.  I understand you may have a job opening in the engine room."


A credentials review indicates:

Education: Secondary school
Engineer(maneuver)-1
Gun Combat-?
Gunner(turrets)-1+
Mechanic-1
Melee-?
Space Science-0
Vacc Suit-0

---

Marie Menkin. Presumably part of the interview will include a review of her credentials and some specific skill/experience questions.  Rather than trying to roleplay technical questions, I'll list, in game mechanics terms, the candidates skills that you are able to pin down.  This way the interview can concentrate more on the candidate as a person.  For skills like Persuade, Streetwise, Carouse and such, you may get a sense though the interview or not.

Marie Menkin
Education: secondary school with a handful of university general space science courses.
Skills:
Admin-? (she should have some familiarity as a former Admin officer)
Broker-0
Comms-1
Drive-0
Gun Combat-0
Gunner(turret)-1
Leadership-? (most naval officers have some practical experience with this)
Mechanic-1
Melee(blade)-? (again most naval officers know this)
Pilot(spacecraft)-1
Space Science-0
Tactics(naval)-? (only Danica can check this, but Marie seems to know her stuff)
Vacc Suit-0

When Hayden asks about Gargoyle, Marie's lips compress momentarily before she answers.  "It was my first operational deployment, about two years ago.  We were on close patrol here when we had a pop-up inbound.  It wasn't active on sensors or pinging on it's transponder, though they later claimed they were.  I had the watch, so I fired a warning shot and our marines boarded her.  My CO disagreed with how I handled the situation and filed a letter in my service record.  I appealed to the squadron Commodore, but she chose to back my CO.  I resolved at that point that I wouldn't stay with an organization that didn't back it's own personnel."

She adds, "By the way, that inbound was quarantined, searched, and denied a landing permit, so I think that shows who was right."

---

Lance Charpentier is about 180cm (5'11''), with a wiry build, pale skin common to Espiaux natives, and a military haircut.  He's dressed in dark trousers, a blue dress shirt with no tie, and a black, weatherproof windbreaker.

His grip is strong as he shakes Hayden's hand.  He introduces himself simply, "Lance Charpentier. You were looking for me?"

Credentials review on him confirms:

Education: Secondary school with poor marks ("never been one for book study")
Athletics-0+ (presumed from military service)
Engineer-0
Gun Combat(energy rifles)-1
Gunnery(turret)-1
Heavy Weapons-0
Instructor-? (served as close quarters combat and small unit tactics instructor)
Medic-0
Melee(blade)-1+
Sensors-1
Stealth-0+ (presumed from military service)
Tactics(military)-1+
Vacc suit-0

---

Cyril Orcut appears to be in his mid-thirties, clean cut, but not military, with dark hair and dark eyes.  You estimate his height at about 185cm (6'0").  He does not move with the same athleticism or grace as Charpentier or Menkin, respectively.  He does seem at ease, though, and unconcerned about the upcoming interview.

As he surveys Hayden, Bertrand, and especially Danica, a slight, possibly cynical smile, traces his face before vanishing.  "Cyril Orcut, at your service."


Cyril Orcut Credentials Review:

Education: Master's (Science) in Metallurgy
Combat Engineer-0+
Computer-0
Discipline-0 (presumed from naval service)
Engineer(Life Support)-1
Engineer(Powerplant)-1
Gun Combat(slug rifle)-1
Mechanic-2
Physical Science-0
Pilot-0
Remote Ops-1
Space Science-0
Tactics(military)-? (presumed from merc background)
Vacc Suit-0
Weapon Engineering(slug weapons)-1
This message was last edited by the player at 09:34, Fri 25 Mar 2011.

All,
I returned from travel early this morning, got a few hours sleep, and am ready to get back into the groove.  Expect updates shortly. :)

Ref, glad you're back, welcome home!

Re: crew hires - Thera, thanks for the listing, so much easier than clicking thru a hundred posts! Makes me realize I had forgotten about Stern, and so much easier to compare everyone. Cheers!

Doc brings up a good point, really we're looking for a Chief Engineer and a good gunner/security person. I still think Orcutt makes the best chief engineer, and his weapons engineering skill could keep those railguns working when we're in the ass end of nowhere. Personality-wise, I can put up with a jerk as long as he does his job.

And now reading Stern's reply, he seems the best of both worlds: solid gunner/security and decent back-up engineer.

So I guess right now, pending final interviews, FWIW I'm leaning towards Orcutt and Stern.

If only Nixon could go to China, then perhaps as the Money Worrywart, then I may be the only one who can put forward five candidates to fill two jobs… :)

Some of this is driven by my own game, where a few more NPCs would leave the PC group free to work together, rather than split up, just to meet ship crewing requirements.  While two NPC crew might be all we need, five would give us a lot of flexibility and ensure that we are not beholden to shipboard maintenance and crewing requirements, when we could be adventuring, exploring, and getting into and out of trouble.

Cover wise, I’ve been chatting with the Ref off and on, and it’s clear that we are never going to pass as a tramp trader in this very fine, shiny new ship with our already eclectic crew.  Most of my initial thoughts on crewing were driven by the idea that more crew is suspicious.  Tramp traders operate on thin margins.  But we are going to stand out, that much is clear. So let’s stand out as high value, high stakes speculative traders.  We aren’t simply shuttling freight around so let’s not look like deliverymen.  We are high end merchants, operating a serious starship in search of serious profits.

In real world terms, I've had to shift my thinking from this:

Us -
Crewing this -

To more along the lines of this:

Us -
Crewing this -

Anyway, here is what I propose:

Dagala Aksina (Security) - We are carrying bank bullion for our first mission... If we do it well, we'll lay a nice foundation for future security related jobs.  Having our Dagala's expertise onboard will help with that.  She has a very well rounded skill set and could help in a number of roles.

Lance Charpentier (Gunner) - From my point of view, Lance's turret skill trumps Tamara's Ortillery skill.

Nino Stern (Chief Engineer) - Good attitude and solid skill set make him a good choice for the engineering job.  I expect he'd have no trouble keeping my next candidate in line either.

Cyril Orcut (Engineer) - Controversial - yes.  But this isn’t checkers – its chess.  Consider this: Not only does he have some very useful and specific engineering expertise; he has a Master’s Degree in Metallurgy.

"You are to proceed with reasonable dispatch. Do not compromise your cover, to Antioch.  Your mission tasks are as follows:

2) The data scroll in the transmission should contain location and vector information for Consul.  Attempt to locate the wreckage and collect any information which may prove relevant.

Orcut could prove invaluable for that.  And between Nino on the M-drive and Cyril at the Power Plant, we stand a good chance of getting some nice thrust bonuses if it ever comes down to starship combat.

Prisa Gadron (Engineer) – A good pinch hitter for a few other ship positions, it won’t hurt to have plenty of hands performing maintenance on the ship either.  Comms and computers lets her help out the bridge crew with electronic warfare tasks during starship combat if she's not needed to assist with engineering/damage control.

Indeed, pictured the relatively small, yet upscale and brand new 'Moth along with  our fairly specialized bunch as a niche service vessel.

Security charter fits that image nicely and provides excellent cover for a ship and personnel that are always gonna stand out - and being securities contractors should be good for having permits and such re: weapons and access.

All for having an NPC crew that can handle the vessel while the PC party engages in off-ship activities - with the quarters and the coin, see no reason not to carry a full house.

I agree with the Doctor and Hayden.  High profile/high margin security transportation (personnel and cargo) seems a reasonable cover.

And to that end, the hires proposed are reasonable.  Nino seems like he has the potential to be a really good chief engineer - he is not there yet, but appears to want to be, which is important.  We'll see how well he works together with Dagala and Cyril.

The only thing we need to worry about with 5 NPCs on-board, is that they could fly away without us...:)  Just joking, they don't have a good astrogator...:)  Other than Prisa... hmmmm.

More seriously, I think that Nino and Lance have great potential.  My initial read of them, is that they are both looking for a crew/Captain/ship to be loyal to.  And if we treat them right, they will be quite loyal.  Dagala is looking to be appreciated and to expand her usefulness.  All three of them, will likely thrive in the directed anarchy that will be the Gypsy Moth, I suspect.  As I understand Hayden's logic, the equalization of compensation goes along with his core concept that everyone on the crew should do everything they can to ensure the proper running/survival/profitability of the ship and the venture.  If you are needed as a gunner and can do the job, do it.  If you are needed as the pilot or astrogator do it.  Your title is irrelevant, in that case - i.e. 'not my job' is not an excuse (though, 'huh?  how do I do that?' is likely a reasonable excuse...:)).

We'll see about Prisa.  She could just be quietly competent and will need to be replaced in 6 months (which would be a bummer... but also could be 10 years RL down the line...:)).

Cyril may or may not be problematic.  While Danica does worry about his ultimate loyalties - he seems a touch too mercenary in attitude.  Though with the way our compensation works, he could be quite satisfied with his lot.  Honestly, there is nothing that screams to me (or Danica) that Cyril will be an inherent problem - in fact, he'll probably be a fine addition (not the most personable, so we may need to limit his face time with customers, but that could be said for Danica, too...:)).

Hayden's roster sounds good to me.

Though I hadn't originally considered her, I'd add we have crew space for Tamara Padabig and she fits the securities slant well with her range and skill specialties.  (If I counted correctly, that would give us fully occupied crew quarters with the captain the only non-double occupancy.)

As to Orcut - love the idea of Nino Stern being his superior - though Orcut might feel differently. ;)  Can see Aksina's maturity and talents making her presence prudent with these two.

RP-wise, my PC doesn't like his perception of Orcut, and his attitudes and motivations seem at odds with the rest of the candidates.  Skill-wise he is a great fit, while plot-wise, a potential Judas.  Thus, I like the added potential for drama and character development.

My only issue with Tamara was that is throws the chick to cabin ratio off, but going back through, it seems like we have the space for it.  Let's finish the interview there and if she's ok, then I'll edit my post to include her in the 'well served hiring' thread.

So cabin wise, I think we will end up with 5 standard staterooms double occupancy, once standard cabin single occupancy, and the VIP cabin with single occupancy.  My first choice with five women on board, would be for Dani as First Officer to have the single occupancy, being the stateroom nearest the bridge.  If we ever get an actually VIP passenger, I'll vacate the VIP suite with the prerequisite "Please Mr. President/Your Grace/Lord Fauntleroy, take my cabin, I insist!" and then bunk with Dani near the bridge.

#1 - in nose, adjacent to bridge                 Danica
#2 - port side, nearest to nose                  Jack
#3 - stbd side, VIP stateroom                    Hayden
#4 - port side, adjacent to sickbay              Dr. Jones
#5 - port side, fwd of ship's locker             Thera
#6 - port side, with access to engineering       (probably Chief Engineer)
#7 - stbd side, fwd of engineering               (probably Bertrand)

This is the last thing I saw on berths.  So feel free to pick your poison in regards to NPC roommates.

Good plan - I mis-counted, including Simon Newel as a PC, but that works well with your VIP quarters concept.

Tamara's just a suggestion - a Redshirt with recon skill and combat skills relevant to diversions (explosives, launchers) stuck out is all.

Hmmm... Hayden's picture above and Jack's recent comment of 'man has skills we'll wish we had at some point' brought something home for me...

-> Why are we not looking to employ a professional (level-3) engineer?

If I'm not mistaken, all the PCs are professionals in their respective areas and we are offering an above average salary (and above average food)?

IIRC, the Ref stated there could be other candidates - strictly speaking ingame, our current choices all appear to be level-1 greenhorns for what is arguably the most important position we are employing for.  (Metagame, they could have stat DMs, but I'm really thinking ingame logic here...)

I'm going to quote the Ref from a recent PM message to put things in perspective, then just say, if you guys want beat the HR angle to death.. go for it.. without me.




I'd prefer to get things moving myself as well.  From my POV, everyone has had a chance to pull pitch on this guy in character, and anything else is just in character posturing to little effect.

Yeah, ready to move on... was real happy to see that Dani wrapped up the Padabig interview ;)

Well, if the Ref wants to move on, sure, although we've played simultaneous threads before...

'in character posturing'? is that a.k.a roleplaying?

Maybe I've missed something, but have we actually made a decision, IC or OOC about which crew we're hiring? I know a few ideas have been put forward, but I don't recall a decision being agreed.

Hayden posted his recommendations OOC a few posts upthread. I'm taking that as his final words on the matter. See IC thread for a review; Hayden, correct me if I'm wrong but I think I got the gist of it.

Maybe we've put too much weight on the crew hires and they should be looked at merely as NPC redshirts. I like the role-playing (in fact I love the scene that just went down in the lounge!) but I figure we're going on a jump to the capital, not somewhere on the frontier so if we make a bad call now we can dump someone at Espiaux and try again.

I guess I think it'll be more fun role-playing the NPCs (dis)proving themselves rather than role-playing us sitting in the lounge, if you know what I mean.

Was rather surprised by IC final candidate selection - but it presented a good RP opportunity.

RPed Doc how I felt he would react IC - but unanimous IC should be subject to player decisions and we can roleplay that out as well - got no problem with Doc changing his mind or the IC group deciding decisions should be more democratic.

As a player, I can take or leave Orcut - especially realizing he only has level-1 engineering skills which we can easily cover with PCs (instead of twiddling thumbs in lounge) and still have enough NPCs to keep the ship available while we PC's play (with a expendible redshirt or two ;)

Same here, as a player I can take or leave any of them... but interested to see what Thera and Danica are going to say IC ;)

I guess we've lost Bertrand for a while?...

In reply to Jacques Keveloh (msg #217):

Captain's recommendations - yeah, that's what I thought.

As a player, I don't mind either way. I have confidence that the Ref isn't going to kill us for choosing the 'wrong' redshirt. I imagine that with Orcut we'd face his personality, and without him we'll face the lack of his skills. All good stuff.

Thera's volcanic outbursts are central to her character - I don't suppose that will be the last - or the biggest. ;)

Hope everyone is enjoying their April Fool's day - certainly enjoying everyone's RP.

Also hope Bertrand is still in the game - really liked his character development - plus, Doc needs someone to treat ;)

Regards room-mates, Doc has no problem with anyone - male or female (he's the ship's doctor - he'll see it all anyways).

[P.S. - decided not to add my typical April Fool's RPoL IC post - there's enough IC drama in this game already!]

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #219):

Yeah, I hope Bertrand is still with us, though I notice he's the only character without a cast description...

Thera much prefers a female roomie. Her preference would have been for Tamara Padabig as the two of them seemed to have made a promising start at the bar. (and yes, that probably affected her choice of Tamara amongst the redshirts - anyone want to argue the point with her? ;) ) She has no preference between the other two women.

#1 - in nose, adjacent to bridge                 Danica
#2 - port side, nearest to nose                  Jack (Dagala)
#3 - stbd side, VIP stateroom                    Hayden
#4 - port side, adjacent to sickbay              Dr. Jones
#5 - port side, fwd of ship's locker             Thera (Prisa)
#6 - port side, with access to engineering       Nino Stern (Lance)
#7 - stbd side, fwd of engineering               (probably Bertrand)

How's this for the roomie situation?

Keeps the three "highest-ranked" crew solo until needs dictate otherwise;
Keeps Dani's room a single until we get a VIP on board when Hayden will join her;
Keeps a security person bunked near the bridge;
Puts the engaged woman with a another woman to lessen the Doc's chance of causing trouble ;)

(left Bertrand alone until we hear something from him)

Thoughts?

Doc causing trouble?  :o

Looks fine to me (wait - Jack gets to room with Dagala?  Oh, fine, she'd probably just do some of that kung-fu stuff if Doc made any moves anyway. ;)

Yeah, figure that's what would happen to Jack too... besides we all know the real action is going to be Thera's show in the passenger lounge! (mumbles about working on the bridge...)

@Hayden: ready to jump back into cargo world; Jack only has a few calls to make on 356 so he's available to call suppliers, monitor shipments, load deliveries, roll dice, etc.

In reply to Jacques Keveloh (msg #223):

Alright, some interesting roleplaying for Day 355 in the lounge.  I like how each character is developing and watching the group dynamics evolve.  :)

Bertrand drops by periodically, but hasn't posted in a while.  I'll drop him a note and see how things are going.

Honestly, I don't have any other planned encounters set for Alsace this time around.  Unless anyone has anything they'd like to explore with their past life, I'd like to gloss over Day 356 by saying everyone's busy with loading cargo and getting acquainted with their new ship mates and move on to 357 and liftoff. :)

Admittedly there wasn't a lot of adventure on Alsace, but I figured on the first planet as sort-of a get-the-operation-going-and-sorting-out-logistics scenario before unleashing the super-zombies cyborg-pirates alien menace chinchillas.  Didn't figure on it taking this long, but that's PbP, and as long as it was at least mildly interesting for everyone then I'm not worried.  If anyone doesn't like the flavor of the game please let me know.

I'll hold off for a RL day or so to give everyone an opportunity to post closing thoughts on candidates, rooms, etc, then we'll move on.

Let me just say, that with OOC crew selection being discussed OOC since the 26th, I made the mistake of thinking that we had reached some sort of general consensus on the issue of hiring.

The IC postings were mostly to provide a clean follow up to the OCC comments and close the thread out.  I did not expect that anyone was looking for an in-depth, in-character discussion about each candidate.

Selecting the 'raise your hand' to vote said crewmember off the island was not an attempt to manipulate anyone.  I was simply searching for a mechanism to provide fast resolution to the issue of hiring the most contentious candidate.  Following Robert's Rules of Order seemed like it would be a bit lengthy and drawn out for this medium.

But if that’s what it takes, that’s what we’ll do.

So... I would like for each player to identify the preferred way in which decisions will be reached in and out of character.  It's evident that the role and title of the various officers aboard is perfunctory at best.  And given the IC rhetoric, clearly we all have to agree to the process first for it to be viewed legitimately.  So we need to identify a mechanism that gives everyone a chance to deliberate and contribute to group decisions.  So if that’s not veto power, what is it?  Is it voting?  Is a simple majority sufficient?  Supermajority?  Unanimous decision?  Are we following parliamentary procedure (motions, seconds, etc.)?  At what level of decision making must we canvas the group for its collective wisdom?  In combat while choosing tactics?  Before small or large spending decisions?  Prior to skill use (hey, I didn’t vote on you shooting that guy… or healing that person)?

I would also like to reach consensus on the amount of time an issue is up for deliberation and discussion, before we move forward.  Do we intend to wait until every player has commented in a given decision no matter how long?  Or is a week sufficient?  Must that be OOC, or does only IC decision making count?  Please note that Bertrand has not commented on the selection of NPCs.  Do we intend to wait for that?

In reply to Hayden Marks (msg #225):

Since I was the one to 'speak out', I suppose I should reply. :)

As a player, my only objection was that I didn't figure we'd arrived at a decision, IC or OOC. Various people had put forward their choices, but AFAIK we hadn't decided which choice or combination of choices we were going with.

Then Hayden walked out of the interview room after making his suggestion.

I made a calm OOC query whether we'd agreed a crew - Thera hit the roof.


I have no objection to deciding OOC and glossing over IC if that's useful, nor have I an objection to thrashing out decisions IC if that's preferred.

We're all here to get fun out of the game. Personally I've no particular desire to reach the end of the game in a hurry - I'm a Traveller, I enjoy the journey, but I'll let the Ref dictate the pace.

It looks like we've arrived at a consensus to go with 4 redshirts now and the Ref has publicly expressed a desire to move on, so I'm happy to move on.


As for future decisions, no need to go to ridiculous lengths, let's just make sure we're agreed, at least OOC, on what is actually happening. A simple majority will do for me, and I'm happy for the Ref to make a 'casting vote' if necessary.

The amount of time we're allowed for a decision, and whether to wait for absent players is up to the Ref, I'd say.

Well, like Hayden, I had thought that the OOC discussion had come to a conclusion (or at least most of us had a say).  As I recall, IC and OOC, Danica voiced reservations - but when push came to shove was not ready/willing to vote Orcut off the island.  My sense (which was apparently wrong), was that most others were that way as well.  I happen to think that the veto vote is fine measure for the PC crew on most major things (I think that everyone should be on the same page OOC - IC, is of course, a different matter.

In any case, I would say that OOC discussion and some IC gloss with respect to most situations/decision is warranted.  While, I am not opposed to any RP, in general.  I am cognizant that the pacing of the game (since it is PbP) is essential.  We can get bogged down in the minutiae of every decision IC (which is long and drawn out by the scheduling mismatch inherent in PbP).  Personally, I am deeply opposed to anything that will make decision making IC impossible (which Robert's will... and yes, I know that Hayden was being primarily facetious about that - he is well aware of the consequences of requiring anything approximating parliamentary procedure in a PbP game - he may have even tried some stuff like that himself in some of his games...:)).

It seems that the major failing here was just that the OOC discussion was not conclusive enough for some.

I think that while the timeframe to reach a concensus is ultimately up to the Ref, a certain timeframe can be expected for responses in this game - one day is not reasonable, but one week seems fine.  One week would seem to encompass multiple potentially posting cycles.  If people check in daily (which I pretty much do, at least during the work week), then a week to respond to something that is explicitly asked IC or OOC, is reasonable to expect an answer - even if it is a non-answer ('RL is hosing me, I hope to be able to respond more in-depth in a couple of days').

As another note, Bertrand has not commented (though by the cast listing has checked the boards recently) on the rooming situation as well.  I would hope that if he can check the status of the game, that he can respond if he wants, and is merely choosing not to.  It is all right to have no opinion.  But, since the game must move on eventually, I also think that one has to accept the consequences of not answering (being able to answer) on a timely basis.

And what is the mechanism in OOC to ensure we are agreed to a particular course of action?

I’d like to formalize a mechanism that satisfies you and Jim.  Because my interpretation of message of OOC messages 207, 208, IC message 11, 12, and 16, were that a simple majority of active character participants (3 of 5) supported the hiring recommendations made in IC Msg #10.  And I interpreted your lack of comment on the other characters as agreement (or at least disinterest).

Clearly, based on your IC and OOC comments, there was some confusion on this issue.  So I think we would be better served with specific and detailed mechanism, agreed to by all parties, to handle this.

I note that neither you nor Jim objected to the decision-making process (Veto removal) when first indicated in IC Msg #11 on the 28th.  It wasn’t until message #18, days later on the 31st, when I attempted to move the game forward  (a message I wrote after the Ref PMed about his desire to get the group into space), that we hear from you and eventually Jim about how unfair the process is.   Again, the lack of comment from you (or Jim) on the veto process for those days (during which you were both active and posting on other issues - IC msgs # 13, 14, 15, OOC #210, #211), gave no indication that either of you found the process unfair at that point.  So I suggest we settle the method now before moving forward.

If we can get some consensus on if a simple majority vote is the preferred mechanism for every player involved, then I would say we move forward with putting each candidate up for vote.

What decision making process we use for any given situation would, optimally, come about naturally... and I think it will as we all play more together.  I trust the ref to step in as needed and to set the pace as well, but there should really be little need of that.

The key to this is communication.

If anyone is getting frustrated or impatient - just say so.

Trying to 'fix' the problem alone, especially by forcing an issue, will only create more problems. As a team, we can 'fix' things together.

Codifying decision making processes and times will also create more problems.  Situations are too diverse and technical issues like when does a 'week' start and end - my local time or yours - will arise.

More importantly, this is unnecessary when communication and mutual respect are employed, and experience together will provide workable solutions.


@Hayden: I specifically posted OOC to clarify that Doc's hand raising was RP and the outcome would be changed based on Majority decision.  OOC I had stated I could take or leave Orcut and my IC was not changing that stance or changing a vote unless others choose it to - it was never a big issue to me.

I take it as obvious in the RW that a 'veto vote method' is only acceptable when all players have agreed to it or the Referee has declared it - and no such thing had occurred to that point.  My IC was simply RP taking advantage of a nice character development and RP opportunity.

Here's a vote for "Simple Majority Wins" - but if Bertrand ever votes we have six voices so someday we'll need a tie-breaker mechanism. Persuade (Dex) roll off? ;)

I've really enjoyed the IC stuff in the lounge but I would prefer not to RP every single candidate's interview evaluation. Personally, I'm ready to get the ship moving.

When would you ever roll Persuade(Dex)? Mexican standoff? In any case, Bertrand has no objections. I might get more active in the future, but until then you're free to consider Bertrand an NPC with benefits who doesn't talk a lot.

Great to know you're still around Bertrand!

'Majority wins' typically works and doesn't preclude unanimous decision, or simple discussions, taking other approaches as needed.

Good communication implies that any assumed outcome also be posted for clarity.

FOR the Record: I am open to Orcut (single post can change). Jim also has 50K for Hayden or anyone else to make use of. (He's indifferent and irresponsible with credits.)

I'll state right now I am happy with cargo, destination, room and crew and ready to move on - or not - as others desire.  I'm here to enjoy RP.

(This is a good example where a simple majority vote may not be best - if 1/3 of the party would like to roleplay HR/Cargo, the Ref can decide and has options to handle both desires so everyone is happy...)

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #232):

I could have written msg #229, from Jim's player myself.

In short: everything's cool, play it by ear, no need to write out the Magna Carta. We've sorted out the crewing question without drawing blood, we've had a play with our characters IC, we're ready to move on - no problem from my POV.

I'll take the number six stateroom, with Nino, unless there are any objections.  Figure I can bolt in a small safe in the engineering section at some point to hold the ship's books.
This message was last edited by the player at 02:03, Sun 03 Apr 2011.

In reply to Hayden Marks (msg #234):

As Hayden's IC post indicates, he does not want to be Captain.  Due to RL constraints, he has stated a desire to be Ship's Purser and have another player take over the Captain's role.

Poor attempt at humor.

Wow. So... who wants a promotion?

#1 - in nose, adjacent to bridge                 Danica
#2 - port side, nearest to nose                  Jack (Dagala)
#3 - stbd side, VIP stateroom                    Captain's Suite
#4 - port side, adjacent to sickbay              Dr. Jones
#5 - port side, fwd of ship's locker             Thera (Prisa)
#6 - port side, with access to engineering       Hayden (Nino)
#7 - stbd side, fwd of engineering               Bertrand (Lance)

It might be appropriate to Thera's line of work... ;)




Indeed.  That is now the question.  Looks like the lounge conversation on 355 has a new topic.

I'd rather not have an NPC as Captain, so I'd prefer it if the group chooses a new figurehead, err, leader.  Hayden and Bertrand are both out due to RL/time/posting constraints, but I'm comfortable with whoever else wants to step up to the plate.

It is possible the Captain's duties could be divided, one player taking care of the business side, another running the ship, and a third being the "figurehead" or "face" when meeting passengers and such.

It is also possible that the ship be run entirely democratically, with only an understanding that in combat one character takes command and that in social situations one character wears the "title".

It's your ship, how do you want to run it?

My vote is run the ship as a team.

Combat situations naturally deferring to Tactic/Leadership skilled PCs in RP.

LOL.



Makes sense to me. The Purser is usually the 'face' for the passengers anyhow.



Works for me. I thought this is what we had before...

I'm willing to try a democracy as well but I hope we can 'democratize' quickly and keep the game moving.

I would nominate Danica as 'Combat Captain' if she's up for this arrangement. Seems as Purser Hayden would still be 'Face Captain' with passengers, clients, Newell, ship's owners, etc but I'll nominate Jack to handle that if Hayden doesn't want it. Thing is, Jack has no IC skills/experience to justify that (Deception-1, Persuade-1 and Carouse-0 are about it...)

So what exactly will the Purser be handling? And what would remain to do after that? Again, Jack will pitch in to help but again he has no experience to justify much of those kinds of duties.

This could be interesting but I have a feeling Danica might prefer a true Captain arrangement, just seems like her style.

Well, I originally thought that Persuade (Dex) was something like an arm-wrestling match, but that is obviously Persuade (Str).  I agree that Persuade (Dex) is likely Thera's domain.

Danica is fine with ground combat lead (thought Nino or Dagala might be better choices there - if they know everything the PCs do).  In space, "Combat Captain" means that she is not going to be piloting very well.  That may be okay in most cases (except when evading is required).  She only has Leadership/1 and Tactics (military)/1 (i.e. effectively Tactics(naval)/0 - which is not very high - and not effective at all, if she piloting at the same time).  Her general recommendation with respect to space combat is to avoid it (much like her player, who will also note that it is really expensive, too).

Jack would be right about Danica preferring a chain of command.  But, if she and the others cannot settle on a Captain (figurehead or otherwise), she will make due.  I do think that a Captain of some sort (figurehead or otherwise) will be needed to conduct any sort of semi-convincing cover.  So, we are going to have to have someone to call "Captain" (you know for when the inbound SDB hails the ship and wants to speak to the "Captain" - likely we should have selected someone before the hail happens).  If necessary, Danica will take the role in port and as necessary - but like Jack, she is not the best equipped to do so.

As a player, I am fine with a more 'democratic' voting system for most issues.  Though to avoid any miscommunication, like what happened previously, I suspect that we will need to be more explicit OOC.  I, personally, think that having to fully hash out everything IC will take far too long (we'd never get off Alsace...).

Gadron has presumed Tactics(naval)-?, but the best tactic, as you say, is avoidance ;)

RE: cover and comms - how about assuming Newell has Hayden listed as Captain/Purser and the rest of the 'Executive Crew' are titled as Alternate/Assistant Captains/Role (or Captain/Role, Second Captain... whatever works).

That way, any of us can reply as 'Captain' on comms and forms, etc.  (Taking a cue from my Corporate America experience with multiple official titles).

Hire-ons will, of course, be in the un-enviable position of reporting to multiple bosses without clear chain of command (again - taken directly from past, personal Corporate America experience ;).

And, yeah, I love IC, but have never RPed out any of this type stuff in F2F where it would probably have been even faster.  However, as we play together more, I would hope that we'll be able to make group type decisions IC with simple OOC comments as needed just as expeditiously as in an all OOC discussion.

[Aside: is there any worth to Tactics/Leadership level 0?]

I'm happy to handle the traditional role of a ship's purser:

From Wikipedia: A ship's purser (also purser or pusser) is the person on a ship responsible for the handling of money on board. On modern merchant ships the purser is the officer responsible for all administration and supply; frequently the cooks and stewards answer to him/her as well.

On modern-day passenger ships, the purser has evolved into a multi-person office that handles general administration, fees and charges, currency exchange, and any other money-related needs of the passengers and crew. The Chief Purser often holds a rank equivalent to that of the Chief Officer (and wears the same three rank rings).

I have no issue being the point person in dealings with NPC clients, passengers, Newell, etc. as well.  That's one of the main reasons I selected the Steward skill as one of my connection skills.

Excellent!

Sounds to me like we have a general consensus on a democratic style captaincy - with Hayden captain of note, excepting mouse-herding and chain of command duties and Jack and Danica filling in as needed?

If Ref concurs, I'd propose his announcement would provide OOC confirmation?

(My 'Alternate multi-Captains' suggestion being a separate, related issue for Ref and group consideration - mostly allowing RP when key players are notably absent...)

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #244):

So Hayden remains the 'face captain', whoever has the best Tactics skill is the combat captain' (TBD), so AFAIK, all we have to decide is which unfortunate gets pushed forward when the alien (or pirate, or coastguard/customs officer) says 'take me to your leader'.
And don't look at me!

Personally, I can't see that Hayden or his player s going shed much load at all this way - as I said upthread, isn't this effectively what we had already?

Let's play on.

This is the most recent berthing list I've seen posted.  Is it still accurate?

I'd like to know (IC or OOC, doesn't matter) where on the ship each PC and redshirt will be for the N-space transit.  I can figure Danica and Jack on the bridge, Gadron lower engineering and Stern upper engineering, but the others are less clear.

Also, please include a brief "what you're wearing and carrying" in IC post.  Thanks. :)

#1 - in nose, adjacent to bridge                 Danica
#2 - port side, nearest to nose                  Jack (Dagala)
#3 - stbd side, VIP stateroom                    Captain's Suite
#4 - port side, adjacent to sickbay              Dr. Jones
#5 - port side, fwd of ship's locker             Thera (Prisa)
#6 - port side, with access to engineering       Hayden (Nino)
#7 - stbd side, fwd of engineering               Bertrand (Lance)

The above is actually more recent as it includes Hayden's stated desire to bunk with Nino. Nothing changes for Jack, so it works for me. But for appearances sake someone should take the Captain's suite.

Jack will take on any day-to-day captaining that anyone else doesn't want. If anyone feels he oversteps his bounds, just say so... space is calling and Jack is ready to go!

In reply to Jacques Keveloh (msg #247):

Looks ok to me.

Why do we need to occupy the VIP room? There is nobody with access to the crew deck to keep up appearances for.

Good point!

So we make the 'Captain's Suite' into a Ship's Office? At least for this trip. So whoever needs a private space for Ship's Biz has that room to conduct it in; but mostly that's where the bridge officers hash out the day-to-day.

Don't actually care one way or another, but yeah - good point. So the roomies of msg #247 still stand, right?

Jacques msg #247 list looks good to me Ref.

RE: N-Space location - assume Doc will be on bridge, operating power boards from one of the 4 bridge workstations.

Note: Doc also has sensor-1 & comm-0, though RP-wise I would presume someone else would enjoy handling those duties...

Re: extra NPC's, I'd think they would be posted in Engineering barring special circumstances.

Dagala and Lance both can act as Engineering backups (0/0) and for first aid (1/0), Dagala damage control and maintenance (1), while both serve a security function in this critical area of the ship, with good chance not requiring weapons discharging in engineering spaces (4?/1+).

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #251):

Thera will go wherever she's needed.

Do any of the 'more important' characters intend to take up on Thera's suggestions of Msg#5 day 357 and chat to 'Hard-Ass' about some groundrules of our own? If not, I'll have Thera mosey along and butt in on the conversation... :)
This message was last edited by the player at 07:35, Sun 10 Apr 2011.

Especially given the description of the observed competence of the loaders (Doc wasn't looking), any one of the senior crew would not be out of place pointing out the prudence and reasonableness of the crew insisting on ensuring the proper load out and harnessing of the special cargo.

Ref, who would be competent in this regards? (JoT = a trade skill?; pilot skill?).

I assumed Hayden would be acting cargo master, seems appropriate. Jack can do it in terms of RP but again - no appropriate skill set or experience.

Yep - just checking though.

Think rules ignore/handwave this normally (or maybe Merchant Prince covered?)  For MgT I'd personally probably make it a Trade skill.  I.e. - Hayden's JoT would cover.  However, Pilot, might also be considered applicable.  (So Danica?)  Broker and Steward skills strike me as more people/paper management, but that is just my read.  Ref's could certainly differ ;)

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #255):

Re Ref query: I'd keep vid feeds out of the passenger section...

Re video feeds...

yeah, guess I was getting a little carried away ;)

I'm thinking maybe Dagala can oversee reviewing of security footage on the bridge (most secure of Ref's scenarios) with LaFleur any time he requests. That way we control everything, but he'll also have access to everything if he wants it, just after the fact... or perhaps during, I suppose, if he's keeping tabs on someone in particular. 24/7 searchable feeds isn't what Jack meant to offer but it came out sounding that way.

Also, giving that chore to Dagala lets us RP the most interesting bits and keeps day-to-day routines and details in the background.

@Ref: rather than ret-con Jack's post, I can probably RP a suitable transition to something more amenable to the tech/security concerns on board the Moth, if the rest of the gang thinks the above is a good idea.

Also @Ref, the idea of Jack routing things thru his hand-comp to ship displays, etc is just my re-imagining of stuff I do at work a lot, especially now with iPads, Bluetooth and wi-fi everywhere. We routinely set up temp networks and distribute video and documents for review and sharing so I just ran with the idea. If it's not quite possible in this TU, no worries - we'll do it the old-fashioned way ;)

And how does your Information Systems Security Officer feel about that?  Lol

Sure it's possible, but it makes the ship's network more vulnerable to intrusion.  (shrugs) It's your call whether the benefits outweigh the risks.

Similarly, it's your call whether Lafleur is a cautious man trying to do his job or a hijacker and to weigh the risks and benefits of cooperation versus confrontation.

We can expect at least 4 days N-Space transit from 100D Espiaux jump shadow to Box 2 at 3G - right?

Correct.  4 days and a few hours from jump emergence in Espiaux to Box 2.

Clearing the gas giant Lusom's jump shadow in the Alsace system will take 12.6 hours at 2G or 10.2 hours at 3G if you decide to leave Express and Gargoyle behind.

Good, of course... I think... wait, who's the InfoSys Sec Officer?!?

Let's not leave them behind. My hope is we'll emerge from jump around the same time and they'll be close enough to respond if we have any surprises. Once we're relatively sure there's nothing going on, we can bump up to 3G and leave them. Sound good?

@Danica - thanks, nice save in the pass lounge ;)

That is fine with me.  Danica wouldn't mind an escort the entire way.  But that does not give us a chance to fully test and shakedown the Moth...:)  But safety in numbers, at least initially, is good.


Hardly, you and Doc were doing fine.  Sorry about the delay in response, I just was clarifying some things with the Ref before I felt I could fully respond.

Probably got missed:


PCs on bridge and manning turrets - with NPCs in engineering?  (Doesn't leave a PC present in engineering - but then we hired a team...)

With Hayden and Doc on the bridge, Sensor and Comms can be delegated when needed - and skill use can be optimized between the 4 PCs (re: the -2 multi-position penalty) - plus they can interact more naturally.

(In various events, Doc would relocate as needed - likely to engineering except when infirmary work required.)

I'll take a workstation in lower engineering with Gadron.  Gives me quick access to the passanger level and cargo hold if needed.

In reply to Dr. Jim D. Jones (msg #265):

I think Thera would finish her galley duties on the ground and then head for her turret ready for flight.

So, I guess we need to hash this out, first ...  In N-space:

          Bridge:  Danica, Jack, Lafleur, Dr. Jones
        Turret 1:  Bertrand
        Turret 2:  Charpentier or Thera
           U Eng:  Stern, Aksina
        Turret 4:  Thera or Charpentier
           L Eng:  Gadron, Hayden
          Launch:  Empty
          Galley:  Empty
Passenger Lounge:  Agoste, Oettinger, Telford, Ziegler
       Stbd Hold:  Diehl, Fletcher, Gomez, Vaughn

To me the main question is which turret do you want to man....er... woman (?), Thera?  Turrets 1 & 2 have only railguns (which are relative short range).  Turret 4 would be the laser (our only long range weapon).  I believe that Thera has the highest Gunner skill and dexterity DMs of all of the PCs and NPCs - so, from that standpoint she'd be best suited to man turret 4.  None of the turrets are that close to the galley or lounges (if she were to attempt to maintain 'cover' or serve in her other capacity as 'hospitality' director).

Secondary question would be do we want to leave the launch empty (which I, personally, believe should be fine).  Jack is next to the hatch access to the launch in the bridge anyways - and he would be the likely driver.