Argh - Thanks!

Missed that whole (rather important) section.

Starships don't sink in water with gravitics working?

So the guy with Mechanic-1 (or maybe even 2) and Engineering-2, wants to be the Astrogator.

And the guy with Astrogation-2, wants to be the Engineer...

This is why you have to love random chargen.

One thing I've always found useful is to take a look at page 146 (and house rules) and figure out where you want to be when the missiles start flying.

Yep - random chargen is a hoot!

Wanted to create a scientist (scholar) - ended up a Medic! (Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor...).

But connection rules means I can still play a scientist. (Not an expert, but I like not having too high skills.)  Turns out to also be a 'fireman' - no fighting skills, but well skilled to repair battle damage from gun turrets to sophonts.  I really wouldn't have thought of that combination.

Now, the package skills make Astrogation a possibly reasonable option...

Heh, yeah. I ended up with exactly zero shipboard skills myself, so will have to grab the Gunner or something from a skill package to justify my extended presence on the ship.

I'm sure Jacques would prefer the bridge to the engine room ;) I guess I was just thinking about drive repairs after combat, not really the day-to-day operation. Kind of a silly idea now that I think about it, since I figured being conveniently seated at his Astrogation console he could also operate Sensors if need be, and be completely useless as an Engineer...

I thought the Ref's crew breakdown made sense, I just meant I'd be willing to fill in the gaps we seem to have - but I obviously read too fast the good Doctor's career overview! Dr. Jim, it would seem you're our strongest candidate for Engineer. Ship's Doctor just took on a whole new meaning ;)
This message was last edited by the player at 07:46, Mon 24 Jan 2011.

Danica has Pilot() and Sensors at a high level - those alone should warrant her presence as bridge crew.  She does have Mechanic/0 and Engineer (electronics)/1 - but I would not nominate her for Engineer by any stretch of the imagination.  Perhaps backup - in a severe pinch.

From the Starship package, she would most likely find Astrogation or Comms to be most useful.  She can take Medic, but already has that at level/0; someone else may find it more useful.  She could take Gunner - but that would probably be a waste.  Her role as pilot is more suited to helping other line up the shot than to take it herself.

We definitely need gunners - so, that is a good call, Bertrand.  That should likely go to you (assuming that is the package that we take).

By the way, since this is partly an exploration campaign, I suspect that Astrogation (consider boosting it, Jack), will be highly useful and not just for jumps - but all sorts of navigation in space.  Especially, uncharted (or ill-charted) space.

But also looking through the crew rosters for space combat... Does anyone have Tactics (naval)?  Danica has Leadership and Tactics (military); though, both are only level/1.

PS: Thanks for this... I didn't know it existed and it's very handy to have.  Beats looking through the pages one at a time!
This message was last edited by the player at 06:53, Fri 28 Jan 2011.

Just some free thinking -

All these could be critical at the same time:
♦ Pilot and Engineering for 'getting the hell outta there...'
♦ Mechanical repair ditto.
♦ Medic can be time critical for individual survival.

Starship package provides backup for these and gives needed Gunner skill, so sounds like the best - some thoughts on that:

Pilot - Piloting can only be done from one of the bridge consoles - assume most of the time best pilot would be there. Backup Pilot shouldn't have other critical primary duties.
Gunner - Bertrand stated interest and Hayden has the equivalent of Gunner 0 plus stat DMs from JoT 3? - if he'd like that role.  That leaves a turret for a RedShirt, Player 5 or whoever.
Engineer - Currently, Danica and the Doc both have Engineering 0 plus stat DMs (+1 for Doc) for purposes of backing up Engineering as well.
Mechanic - Doc has Mechanical 2 (plus +1 DM) and no plans for Gunner - so he would be great for repair crew (along with Danica in a pinch) when medical needs aren't a priority (hopefully that would be the case most times).
Sensors - Whoever doesn't have this or needs a boost (backup pilot?) - probably the other second skill.
Medic - Two PCs will get 2 skills from package - would be good for non-critical primary role (we definitely need someone who can fixup the Doc ;)
Comms - Comms can be run from anywhere, but Pilot with Comms allows locking down bridge and external comms with only Pilot on bridge.
Astrogation - Astrogation and Engineering can be run from any workstation (barring overrides) - Engineer can be physically with engines when need be and also do Astrogation when the two don't overlap. Astrogation from package would be for backup and when Engineering or Piloting must be done simultaneously to avoid multiple task penalties to these critical tasks.

BTW: Anyone have Remote Ops?

Well, perhaps the best thing is to pick what you want when the Ref calls your name and don't worry too much about it.  This is something we can easily overthink if we try hard enough.

In any event, it sounds like we know which package we want.

Here's Jack's shipboard skill set:

Astrogation-2; Vacc Suit-2; Sensors-1; Comms-0; Remote Ops-0

I would go for Comms out of the starship package. Two, if not all three, of my connection upgrades would go to shipboard skills.

I'd like Astrogation for the Doc.

His connection skills will bump up sciences and provide Mechanic 3 (+1 Edu).

Jack, a piece of advice that you might consider...

Since you already have Comms/0, you may want to let someone else that does not have Comms at all take it.  The benefit between Comms/0 and Comms/1 is only +1 DM to your roll.  Whereas for someone that does not have Comms at all, the difference is much larger (effectively +4 DM, since not having Comms at all means a -3 DM for being untrained).  And letting someone else take Comms, would give (at least) two people that would have some training in that skill.

If you do not have Mechanic or Medic, for example - you might be better served taking those skills instead (at least mechanically).  Or Pilot() or Engineer() cascades - since you not only get level/1 in one of the specialties, but also get level/0 in every other specialty in that cascade - which as I noted above gives you a lot of bang for the buck, since all of those other specialties get their -3 DM for being untrained negated.

Conversely, the benefit of taking Pilot()/1 for Danica (she could do it, and gain Pilot (capital ship)/1 maybe) - would be far less than if someone else took the skill.  She already has level/0 (or greater) in all of the other specialties.  And, in some ways it would defeat the purpose of the package (making sure that more than 1 person in the group has a given skill of some sort, as a back up.

Honestly, I would advise that you take Pilot(), if you don't already have it - it would make you a very solid co-pilot/navigator.  Or maybe Mechanic - the more people that we have to fix things, the better off we are.

Of course, it is up to you - if you really want Comms/1.  Go for it.

Danica, you make a great point about the relative value of 0-level skills... which is exactly why I flat out posted Jack's skill set - sound advice is great.

Seems we don't fit too easily into the ol' standard crew slots! I like that.

You've sold me - Comms is indeed a bigger gain for someone else than for Jack. Jack also gets a Dex bonus so Pilot is probably the better way for him to go.

Barring any objections (or advice!) Jack will take Pilot from the Starship package.

Thanks for the insight!

In reply to Jacques Keveloh (msg #27):

Package Skills

Alright, pretty much everyone has picked their connection skills, so we'll move on to package skills.  The following will be the order for picking package skills:

1st - Hayden
2nd - Jack
3rd - Bertrand
4th - Dr. Jones
5th - Danica
6th - Danica
7th - Dr. Jones
8th - Bertrand
9th - Jack
10th - Hayden

The package is a slightly beefed up version of the starship skills package.  These are the available skills for selection:

1) Astrogation-1
2) Comms-1
3) Engineer(any)-1
4) Gunner(any)-1
5) Mechanic-1
6) Medic-1
7) Pilot(any)-1
8) (any) Science (any)-1
9) Sensors-1
10) Streetwise-1

Every character will receive two skills.  Player Five, once he joins us, will get package skills separately.  Why the extra skills you ask?  Meh, I'm unpredictable.

Due to the nature of PbP, please don't wait for others before stating your preferences.  The selection order will only be a factor if two players want the same skill and can't find an agreeable solution.

Docs choices would be Astrogation, and Science.  (Engineering(PP) as an alternate.)

Happy to let anyone else take precedence, bearing in mind Gunner and Pilot being spoken for (and undesired), Doc has at least level 0 in all the other skills (and +1 Int/Edu DMs) except Streetwise, which might fit other characters better (RP-wise).

Unpredictable is good, thank you very much!

Jack would like Pilot, and will commit to the Small Craft specialty right now.

I'll go with Streetwise for Jack's second choice.

Bertrand needs the Gunner, and one of either Medic, Mechanics or Streetwise.

If Danica had her druthers, she would prefer to take Astrogation and Comms (as previously stated about the Starship package - before the extra skills were added).

Note, of the skills in the current package...  She cannot take Sensors or Mechanic (she has those at level/1+ already).  Of the remaining skills, she has Pilot(), Engineer(), Medic, and Streetwise at level/0 - so, as I have previously noted, those may not be the best to boost - but, Danica will do so, if that is all that is left.  That leaves Gunner() (which is not much use for a pilot and Bertrand is best suited to get) and (Any) Science().  Danica will take the Science() skill if that all that is left, but it may not be the best match for her (though her INT DM is good - her EDU DM is ... less so).

To me, the pilot is best served with Astrogation and Comms.  But, if the Doc really wants Astrogation, he does pick first.

As back-up/alternative picks - either Medic or Streetwise (though as noted about, Danica already has both of these at level/0).

And if both Medic and Streetwise are gone, as well.  Then Science() and Engineer() would be the picks she would have to take if her first four picks are already taken (which is possible, since she picks fifth and sixth in the list).  As I noted, at that point, Gunner(), Pilot(), Mechanic and Sensors are the only others left, which as I said - the latter two Danica can't take and the first two are better suited for Bertrand and Jack respectively.

Danica - no problem with the Astrogation.

My thoughts are that using Pilot and Astrogation for say calculating an emergency (perhaps even normal at times) jump plot or GG slingshot ends up with negative DMs for multiple actions...

Astro can be run from any workstation, so a backup can assist even if Danica is locked on bridge.  In the extreme event she's solo on the ship a -2 DM to both skills may be worse than a -3 DM to Astro.

Mostly figured Doc could act (+2 DM) as a backup to Jack (more so when Jack talked about Engineering connection skills.)  Shipboard, Doc being mostly a backup, taking an active role when things and other crew get busted.  Of course, even before connection and package skills Hayden is the ultimate fall-to guy with the JoT-3, any package skill just adding +1 for him.

Irregardless of pick order - its yours if you really want it.

(Likewise, if Comms is taken - you are welcome to the Science, Engineering being just +1 for either - but Danica would need be on the bridge more so than the Doc (one hopes).)

Don't forget, we'll all have a few Connection skills as well. Could be a better way to round things out than the Package...

Yep - Package skills are pretty much a bonus for backing each other up... metagame it will help in PbP as well if multiple player PCs have common needed skills.

BTW: Doc connection skills were Mechanic to 3, Survival-1 and Remote Ops-1.

Anyway, changing tacts, slightly.  I think this list is right (pre-connection and pre-package skill allocations)...

  Astrogation:  Jack/1+, Hayden/0+
  Comms:  Bertrand/1+, Hayden/0+, Jack/0+, Jim/0+
  Engineer:  Danica/0+, Hayden/0+, Jim/0+
  Gunner: Hayden/0+
  Mechanic:  Danica/1+, Jim/1+, Hayden/0+
  Medic:  Jim/1+, Danica/0+, Hayden/0+
  Pilot:  Danica/1+, Hayden/0+
  Science:  Jim/0+ (?)
  Sensors:  Danica/1+, Jack/1+, Jim/1+, Bertrand/0+, Hayden/0+
  Streetwise:  Danica/0+, Hayden/0+

So, only Jack has Astrogation.  And no one else has Gunner (unless they have taken it as a connection skill).  Everyone but Danica has some form of Comms (though only one person has it higher than level/0), and everyone has Sensors of some sort (only Hayden or Bertrand would benefit from taking Sensors/1 in the package).  Of course, Hayden effectively has level/0 in everything ...

Perhaps the Ref would consider replacing Sensors/1 in the package with Gunner()/1 or some such (it seems like we need more Gunner() skill)?

In any case, what about something like the following distribution:

  Bertrand:  Gunner(), Mechanic
  Danica:  Comms, (Engineer() or Medic or Astrogation)
  Hayden:  Sensors, (Medic or Engineer() or Astrogation (?))
  Jack:  Pilot, Streetwise
  Jim:  (Astrogation or Engineer()), Science()

Sorry, Hayden, I don't see a way around not giving you Sensors/1 - I do think that Bertrand would be better served taking Mechanic (as he has no Mechanic skill at all).  And I did not settle the Astrogation/Medic/Sciences()/Engineer() distribution... just limited to a few people.

Of course, I am sure that Hayden has a preference for which skills he wants.  And this has not taken those into account yet.

Sorry about the length of this missive.  I am not sure if we are over-analyzing this, at this point.]

EDIT:  Shortened by request.
This message was last edited by the player at 19:11, Thu 27 Jan 2011.

:)  (I'm generally always a fit for that statement!)

Suggestion - that post would be excellent cut down to just the list under 'I think this list is right (pre-connection and pre-package skill allocations)...' and the 'In any case, what about something like the following distribution:'

I think that Jack's Astrogation-2, Sensors-1 and Comms-0 make him the obvious choice to back up Danica on the bridge and vice versa. So Pilot is a no-brainer for him (yes, it took me a while to realize it, but still ;) ) Makes a lot of sense to give Astrogation to Danica so we have some redundancy on the bridge itself and are not asking someone to back-up astrogate while they're fixing or fighting somewhere else on the ship...

I think everyone's second choice will just be bonus, nothing that we'd want but probably something we could use. So maybe we should focus on our first choice, and let everyone weigh in, then think about second choices.

So, first choices:
Hayden - ????
Jack - Pilot
Bertrand - Gunner
Doc - Astrogation
Danica - Astrogation

Once Hayden weighs in we can see where we're at as far as alternates.

Doc is fine with being last on list - just stated his preferences. :)

Gunner and Pilot being spoken for (two skills I would rather he didn't have), means only streetwise would be not preferred (as a Player), but can deal with that.

EDIT: forgot the not!
This message was last edited by the player at 19:43, Thu 27 Jan 2011.