Thinking about delving into the world of steampunk?  Need some advice, input, etc. as you develop your plot or setting?  Then you've found the right place.

No body got any Steampunk games goin' on? D:
This message was last edited by the GM at 12:31, Thu 24 Feb 2011.

I've been debating a Victorian Expedition style setting..

I'm thinking of running an OGL Steampunk game but it won't be ready for a few months on account of (a) I'm running a Scion Hero game face to face, (b) I've contracted to provide some spoken word programmes for an indie music station, and (c) my band just put out a single and we need to promote it.

What is OGL?  I would love to do a Steampunk game.

Open Gaming License, but that doesn't clear it up for me anymore either :P

Mongoose (I think it was mongoose) did a steampunk RPG under the OGL, compatible more or less with D&D3.5.  I have a copy at home.  It's rather splendid and relatively easy to run, although sadly, nobody produced any supplements for it, so it'd have to be homebrew... not a problem though as I'd set it in the real world, more or less.

I'm thinkin' GURPS, you get to build exactly what you're out to replicate concept-wise, and there's enough supplements to cover the breadth of equipment possibly involved, even if it goes from Victorian to Steampunk, because there's a Steampunk supplement, albeit 3E.

I've got a homebrew setting I've been toying with for the last few years, as I want to write a story set in a fantasy/steampunk world, but I haven't made a lot of progress; I've also thought about running an RP game with it, but not sure on the system.  I tend to let myself get bogged down with minutia.

One of the things I'm including is the synergy between magic and technology (steam trains that run off of magical fires, things like that), and why one or the other hasn't become dominant and forced the other into the dark corners of society, but finding the perfect balance is rough. :D

I did something like that in a face to face steampunk game set on Toril about 300 years after the setting for Forgotten Realms in D&D3.5.  The trains used magic and steam together but the party went down into the underdark via an elevator and went around with flashlights powered by everlasting batteries.  And then they had to walk.

If magic existed and could be analyzed as such, it would BECOME technology.

People would figure out the most efficient ways to do things regardless of whether that involves engineering, wizardry, chemistry or good ol' fashioned sweat. All a matter of how easy it is to invoke magic and what effects can reliably be produced.

If the only magic effect that can easily be produced is say... Force, you'd end up with force powered airplanes, force powered electrical plants, force powered engines, etc. so long as force is cheaper to generate than burning coal. Maybe it's more efficient in small scale to use force engines but it's a better economy of scale to burn coal for electricity, etc.

If you could magically generate electricity directly, how cheap would that be compared to burning coal and spinning turbines? If I can create magic fire, is that cheaper than burning gasoline in my car?

:D

There's also the innate conservatism of technology.  When steam engines were invented in Alexandria around 200 AD, they did not catch on because steam gave no massive advantage over slave power.  Instead, steam engines were used exclusively as children's toys.

When gunpowder was invented in Medieval China, it was used for making fireworks.  It was not until the Turks got hold of it that anybody thought of making Cannon.

When photography was invented in fifteenth century Italy, it met with no demand apart from with the forgers of the Turin shroud.

When Guns were introduced into Japan toward the end of the sixteenth century, the Shogunate made them a state monopoly and charged such a hufge amount for them that they became ceremonial weapons while the sword and bow remained important weapons of war.

When Babbage invented the difference engine, he could not get the funding to build it.

The Clipper, the fastest and heaviest sailing ship ever built was developed AFTER the steamship had already made it obsolete.

The last use of the longbow in war was at Dunkirk in 1940, when Captain Jack Churchill (no relation to the Prime Minister) ran up and down the beach taking potshots at the Germans, and no doubt terrifying them (there's something primal about eight inches of wood suddenly sticking out of your leg).

Nikola Tesla wrote patents in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century for maglev, broadcast power and flivvers.  All have yet to catch on.

Other things that took a long time to catch on are: the Stirling Heat Engine (invented in 1816 and now used in some solar power stations because it is more efficient at converting solar heat to energy than are solar power cells); and the Fax machine (which was demonstrated at the Great Exhibition of 1851 but not manufactured commercially until the 1970s).

Exactly my point. People will naturally choose the most cost effective method available. That is not always the most technologically advanced. Sometimes trying to use advanced technology would reduce their profits, something that no company (or person) would do lightly.



However, to address the "conservatism" of technology, I respectfully disagree. I feel your examples are anecdotal or examples where newer technology allowed the improvement of older technology. I can offer plenty of counter-examples.

The first heavier than air flight was in 1903 and we landed on the moon in 1959. Twenty years ago, the internet didn't exist. I now have a computer in my pocket which is more powerful than the one that flew the astronauts to the moon.

There are a number of working maglev trains, Sony now has a patent on a TV with no wires at all and I'm not sure what a flivver is. ^^;;

Niche or not, I applaud note of those notes Alcuin.  On a personal note, I have designs for stirling engines which I was going to put forth in Kenya when I was planning a trip to coordinate some sustainable community development with the Masai peoples there :)

In reply to Alcuin (msg #12):

Cell phone technology was around since early 1970s, but FCC kept all the frequencies reserved for TV. It wasn't until Japanese made cell phones available to the public in mid 1990s that US even attempted to implement them. Something similar happened to the internet.

Videophones were introduced in Moscow in 1968 but then withdrawn when there were no customers.

Anyone familiar with Diaspora? It occurred to me the other day that doing a steampunk version of Diaspora would be interesting.

Wouldn't a punked up Diaspora need to be more cyber than steam?

That's why I wrote "steampunk version of Diaspora". Say ironclad starships on steam power. What else would we need?

In reply to Tzuppy (msg #19):

Oooo.  Interesting!

In reply to Tzuppy (msg #19):

Sounds like fun.

Anyone actually has any experience with Diaspora?

err... well... i'd have to say... an out right no.

I keep finding myself thinking about a straight up oldschool Victorian adventure in historical times.  It could be a series of games that envelop the Victorian era from beginning to end of the 18th century, and stretch the vastness of Earth.  Wars, exploration, politics, etc etc.  It would have an obvious European flavor to it, otherwise you're in the Wild West territory.  I'm not even sure any 'punking of the genre would be necessary to make it interesting.  Would be educational as well to go off a realistic historical timeline, and that itself could provide the basis for plots.  I'd definitely want to add an emphasis of airships though maybe, can't do without those, now can we?

I assume you mean nineteenth, rather than 18th century... although steampower was around in the 18th century so it might make an interesting backdrop with the first Global War (the war between England and France  1756-1763)) the American War of Independence, the French Revolution.  Napoleon Bonaparte etc.

The Victorian Era is normally considered to cover the reign of Queen Victoria as British Queen and later Empress of India (1837-1901)

Yeppers, from early to late 1800's, whatever century that supposedly is >.o

I would be interested in anything set in the 1800's.  I like that time.

I think we all do for one reason or another :P

I know I am rather obsessed with all things victorian...I'd be game

Another idea would be someting like from the book "Those Who Hunt the Night" which is with a character like Holmes meeting a vampire in the victorian age.

Now see, plots like that are ideal for solo or couples lay where you have a very very capable or compelling main character meant to always be able to amicably unfold the plot with.  Games like that are more about choices than accrued capability, you'd want to play them with a system that lets you be what you need to be right from the start, like GURPS or something.

Cthululu 1920, with or without Cthululululu monsters, is quite capable of doing a job of it. Same system used in Runequest, BRP etc.

I had mixed success with Cthulu games as 50% of the time the players decide to run away at the first hint of the beasties. lol.

I like GURPS and I have played CoC (Call of Chathulu).  The thing about CoC beasties is they nomrally lack range attackes but if they get close, you dead meat.

Another CoC game that is fun is the Dreamlands version.

Anyone have any ideas on what a GM can/should do to make a game feel steampunk?

I can recognize steampunk when I see it, but trying to produce it is another story. And trying to GM a game to get the right feel takes it to a whole other level... well medium at least.

You could import from Runequest quite a range of creatures. though most are melee. For example you could have Broo appearing as 'Ctuhulu cultists gone bad' (tm).

I regret to inform that the Orient Express was founded in 1883, making it unsuitable for most reality-based Victorian settings occurring in earlier timelines.  I is sad... and will probably fudge history when it comes up in an appropriate game :P  I wants it.. And as for railways heading to China.. wtf.  I'm gonna have to rewrite this whole mode of transportation's history when it comes to a good steampunk campaign :P  Alas.. that's where steampunk itself comes in, the rampant evolution of the industrialized era and thusly I can speckle zeppelins and trains everywhere.

I loved the Orient Express. I think there was a module for CoC that had a map of it.

It goes from Paris to Istanbul apparently.

Originally it went from London to Istanbul via a cross-channel ferry.  At one time, it shrank down until it just did Paris to Vienna but that was way after Agatha Christie's time.

There was also one train company that ran (as a one off to show it was doable) train journeys from London across the channel to Paris, Berlin, Warsaw, Moscow, then via the Trans-Siberian Railway to Irkutsk, then Ulan Bator, Sian, Peking (as it was then), Shanghai and ended in Hong Kong. (Apparently it took about six weeks).

If'n you have maps of that epic run, please do share!

Hellz yeah son!

http://www.google.ru/intl/ru/landing/transsib/en.html

Only in this age :)

Can't tell me this wouldn't make for an epic campaign:

http://home.clara.net/johndarm/transib3/transib3.gif

So as I work my way through these posts, I wonder what games are open and looking for players.  Any ideas?

Ha, last time I answered that question I got banned from one of the public forums for helping someone.  I'm not sure what games are currently active though I know a few were recently made that fall within the lines.  It will take many game search result wadings though to get a good ideal of what's left though.  The community could always do with a new one.

Each of the separate public forums have different rules.

In general if you are looking for an existing game post in the "Wanted GMs"

If you want to ask about the game concepts post in "Game Proposals Input and Advice"

---

I was running a development game for a fantasy type setting. Focus ended up on having steampunk romans with occasional magic people.

As a development game I mean looking to one day publish so it has a non-disclosure and ownership transfer agreement. That means ideas there I can use to publish.

Due to the complexity the number of players is very low. RPOL habits means the existing few have poofed down to zero. I have been considering accepting new players into the agreement & game.

I was wondering how that roman steampunk was going.  I knew it was niche on niche so I didn't think twice about the quietness regarding it.  How'd it go while it was active?

Alot of fun actually.

Im using a very simple game system based on what I made for the Gamma Quadrant Star Trek game.

I was also doing a lot of background writing that isn't reflected in the post counts. Did detailed floor plans for a ship for it along with about a 50 page writeup.

The online game was intended to keep me in the groove interested in further development. Starting to want to get back to it.

   I don't know if anyone has seen this, but BBC America is going to be doing a crime drama series set in 1864 in New York City.  I don't know if there would be any Steam Punk devices, and it is a bit early for the genre, but I think for setting and plot it will probably have a lot of good ideas.  This is a synopsis I found from their website:

http://www.bbcamerica.com/copp...p;utm_content=copper
This message was last edited by the player at 05:41, Sun 29 July 2012.

Fascinating!  A British show.. about the Irish.. in New York.. in 1864, lmao.  Some folks are really gonna have to be dedicated to keep all of that straight :P

19th Century
Beauty tips

http://www.mentalfloss.com/blogs/archives/140115

Yes there was a CoC game on the Orient Expresses.  It believe it was called Horror on the Orient Express and it had as high or higher of a PC body count than Masks of Nyarlathotep and that is saying something.

Man those were fun games.

My current 1889 game is advancing to an early WW 1. Players and villians poking in the sensitive issues, having to blow through neutral countries to chase villians, new inventions sure to change the nature of the war.

It was a pretty complex time period for politics. Well aren't they all. Different from what we know so well in our own time.

I toss in 7th Sea, or World of Darkness as a Steampunk/Victorianeque type setting game. I think it could be fun! Any one agree?

Found this interesting on Gentleman Qualities
http://fiercegentleman.com/10-qualities/

That's cool!

This post on RPG.net has a link to an archived overlay of London in the 19th century. Its incredibly detailed!

http://forum.rpg.net/showthrea...to-individual-houses

Alright How I got to this point is to complicated  to go into other than to says it was massively indirect. I love to create campaign areas just for the heck of it and this evolved into a fascinating at least for me complex of Punkishness.

  I have a set of questions at the end.  But let me introduce the setting.

    Region; Temperate rain forest, great island chain along the coast of a mainland with one great island being the location of a volcano of the type I call a great vent.  picture a regular volcano intersecting a Deep Sea as in dungeon and dragons honeycombs.  Creating what would be a massive point source of steam power. This location is the site of a city called the Mountain of Brass.

  Players; They are heroes as in first edition DnD, but as much of this would be Urban adventures, Court, Political, and Investigative skills, as well as overt assets via guild, racial and social class. For the Heroes unlike most zero level mundanes custom has Social Class rising as level rises.  Aristocratic and noble house have started in the city by Heroes of power and high level.  Even if their children didn't share their Gift

Punkishness:
 Steam punk; Steam is supplied by a Brasswork guild not exclusivly made up of Gnomes.
 Diesel punk; Elves hold the guild that supplies fine wine and hard liqueurs, as well as a heavy alcohol that the navy uses to  create dual motive warships sail and iron/steal combustion engines made by the dwarve iron work guild.
 Cyberpunk; psionic crystals usable by any with a high enough combination of wisdom and intelligence, but controlled by charisma.  This is because the psionic power fed through the crystals creates standing illusions and links into the border ethereal creating avatars, document and picture storage, as well as psionic crystal locks and valves.
 Superscience; okay this is the magic-users, like 5th edition DnD they can use cantrips any time at will as often as they want.. BUT.  They have to use Focuses and mostly it is one focus per cantrip at the start. ie. a fire blaster, hypno watch, etc. higher level spells are the same but as you go up in level it is possible to combine lower level cantrips or spells into one item.  While a current spell requires a single Focus and that it be held charged.
   A problem if it is taken as that means the enemy could get of One use of the item. but only the maker can charge the item as it is like magic a personal power source.


Okay, my big question is Cyberpunk; I don't have any  familiarity with such mechanics as might normally go with it is  their any that might be fit to work in a DnD milieu.

Next; I have a problem with 'Court" intrigue, I have played L5R and it worked fine but DnD seems to have this idea that the only possible competitive actions are combat.  The idea of social compitition is to smile wisely and repeat "roleplaying".  Sadly you could say the same about combat, kid points her finger and announces bang your dead, ie roleplaying combat.  I have never had a chance to play the TSR version of L5R is that more connected with this kind of social verbal and psycological combat.

So having at least four different magic systems. Huzzah for complexity.

I suggest you take a look at some of the Heroes game like 3ed or 4ed (?). I forget which edition I had. The principle they worked on was game affect for the superheroes having power. Whether it was flame, cold, laser, psi or chocolate. That's something to keep in mind. Certain forms may have an advantage in affects, like disielpunk being better at moving large objects.

For Cyberpunk one of the best games for that Cyberpunk by R. Talsorian games with numerous supplements including a few by Dream Pod 9. One of the DP9 supplements provided vampires to the setting, which may help you.

Shadowrun is also around. Some of the older 1ed 2ed 3ed you might get for cheap. It already mixed in cyborgs and magic. Could use that as rules in your own setting.

d20 and DnD are closely tied to their origins in tabletop wargaming (see Chainmail). It really was a constant elaboration of how one figure can declare the other dead. Other mechanics were always secondary.

You can create some scoring systems like RP and die rolls score "Intrigue Points". IP are then either having to reach a total to achieve a goal like change the King's mind. More GM behind the screen technique.

Hero Wars RPG had a much better methodoloy where all skills could be used for attack/defense/health. Someone could orate a warrior into submission.

In reply to C-h Freese (msg # 56):

Personally, I would use GURPS but if you don't know it want to use AD&D, then I would use Modern D20 and such like Urban Arcana.

In reply to C-h Freese (msg # 56):

One of the better games for doing repartee was Lace and Steel.  While not "intrigue" it is a war of wits generally in font of an audience.  Lace and Steel and a deck of cards with attacks has high, middle and low and you would score points on your opponent by these attacks.

Ars Magica has a debate system that could fit with modification.  Again you are making attacks that are either based on points of knowledge (high), flattering of the audience to your point ( middle) and personal attacks (low). They were all done with dice roles and skills that match each attack.

In reply to C-h Freese (msg # 56):

I would recommend Tenra Bansho Zero for your needs. It's a game with simple enough rules (once you get the hang of the karma system) that rewards roleplay and mixes magic and technology seamlessly.

They call it "hyper-asian fantasy", but I'm using it on different settings (a steampunk one, too), and it works wonderfully, if you just take your time to rename stats and features following the setting's flavor.

In D&D, you can tweak the system slightly and create "psychological combat" specs to determine outcome via a die role where skills and roleplay descriptions can modify the attack/defense.  Start with a 'base 8 or base 10' Mental AC and modify it with Wisdom (strength of will/stubbornness), Charisma (force of personality) or Intelligence (quick-witted repartee which twists what's said to a more favorable light).  Add bonuses based of knowledge or applicable social skills.  The Attack roll would be the applicable skill to the intrigue being attempted plus the attribute most associated with the ruse being tried.  Or you forego the base value altogether and do a contest of skills between the two or more participants.  Each can determine which aspect they want to try to focus on next and you either allow for a number of successes, or a total ongoing DC based on adding/subtracting the differences in the die roll.

In reply to C-h Freese (msg # 56):

First of all, let me say it sounds like an absolutely awesome setting! I may have to borrow some of your elements!


Secondly, keep in mind that not all players are created equally. At one convention I attended, one DM insisted that whenever someone was playing a Bard and was 'performing', the PLAYER had to stand up and actually sing... for a little bit. While it was amusing for others, I'm not so sure it was for that player. I wouldn't have been able to do that at the time, and would have walked away from the game.

However, I've gamed with a number of players that could use accents, voice tone and some acting ability to get into the role of his character. It these kinds of players that really enrich the role-playing experience, but they a rare breed. It reinforces my contention that role-play gamers are all frustrated actors. The best ones are able to actual 'perform' as they play; the very best, of course, actually are actors.


So when it gets down to dealing with court intrigue and repartee and such, some of us will be severely handicapped (raises hand) as that's way, way out of our comfort zone and/or ability.

As Bashful_Batrean suggested above, use the 'mental' abilities. That would include any skill based off of them.

I'd suggest coming up with 'hit points' for certain events that the characters are trying to achieve. Whether you call them Plot Points or Intrigue Points or even Event Points, they represent the challenge level of the event. For example, if the PCs are all 5th level, then a 5th level Intrigue would be a challenge for them.

They then make their 'attacks' against that by rolling skill checks with a DC, and perhaps how much they exceed the DC represents how many points of 'damage' they do. When the total 'damage' done exceeds the Event Points, then that event happens.

Doing this should require performing certain actions, going to certain places, hobnobbing with the rich and powerful, and even using up some of their connections and contacts. If, say, one was a member in good standing of the Brassworkers Guild, using the guild as a bonus to the dice roll (say, +1d6 per point of Guild status) would use up one Level/Rank of status in the Brassworkers Guild.

You could let them add +1d4 just being a member of the Guild, but increase the die type for expenditure of status... i.e. calling in favors.

The same could be done for Contacts... people that the characters know and/or cultivate in the area. For example, one of the characters could be the nephew of Captain Sukar, who is in favor with Lord Admiral Kenzi. Name dropping gives them a +1 to the dice roll. Again, though, this could get used up.


Anyway, I hope you'll keep us update on what system you use and how it all turns out.

   Let me give you an idea how I already attempt to encurage social power interaction.  All players are of course class level characters.  Which defines them as Heroes, most other characters are zero level characters as in first edition ADnD, though they can have a widely varying number of skill points.  You could have a 4 hp Archer mundane who has gained a +7 to hit through years of practice.

   All Heroes are actually concidered to be Professional Skill in their Classes. Which allows them to hire multiple skill types to get their job done. As well as making them a member of a guild or "company".  If they come into an area with an established base of their guild or a related guild they can get a position at a profestional rate of pay.  if there isn't any local represntitive, they're considered a ranking official of their guild.  Which ends up with persons arriving to get advice about their guild or company, and possibly try to arrange contracts.

   The Skill Profession Blacksmith makes it possible to run a blacksmith shop.  even if you couldn't shape as much as a horseshoe... more later

Oh man, had a reach back to way back.

Advanced Dungeons and Dragons DM Guide had a section on followers, IIRC that's where it was.

The term was "Henchmen" for people like 1/2 your level and below gathered to your cause. Plus you could pay troops.

Been a very long time but there was something like that in AD&D. That is before 2nd Edition.

In reply to Brygun (msg # 64):

Actually in 3.5 AD&D you have a feat called Leadership that lets you attract a cohort which is basically followers. The higher your level, you get so many high level followers and some that would best be described as minions.

Saw an episode of New Tricks the other night that centered around the Fleet River, in London, one of London's subterranean rivers.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...ean_rivers_of_London

Seemed like something that I should work into a steampunk or pulp game set in the Victorian period, when these rivers were being covered over.

Just tossing it out here as an idea for a plot location.

With a submarine or a musically inclined Frenchman?

Victorian "Cursed Races"

Still on developing the same Mountain of brass campaign area, refresher; A 1st edition DnD campaign area [0-Lvl mundanes, semi-talent heroes, and full talent heroes] using 3.5 Ed. edition or pathfinder rules. Thoughly "Punked" out; clockwork [warforged, focus magic], steam, diesel, cyber [crystal focus, psionic, manipulation of a "illusion plane"], fantasy world with elves, dwarves, gnomes, etc.

    I have a guilty secret I like free books and barnes and noble often has authors of "para-normal rom...." yah.. well them. that are willing to give away ebooks for free to hook you on their series.  I realized that a certain amount of these are steam punk based.  So i realized lately that their are a whole set of missing "player" races in my campaign.  The "cursed"/tainted, yes we have Assimar & tiefling, the tainted of the elemental planes, but what about the victorian classics, were-creatures, gargoyles, vampyre, golam.

___As I prefer to have all Heroes start at first level [the full talents] anyway my campaign includes in almost all races what the Goblin Trides call "Runts" they never gain more then one HP and ar usually stunted in some way or another.  4e [eck, eew, yuck] would consider them minions and are, But in these are the only source of full talents in any race.  demi-talents levels are resricted and only exist due to position in an organization, army or tribe.
___So you see amoung Were-creatures there would be "Runts", single hit dice shapechanges of a lowly place in the "Pack", "Pride", "Murder", or "Herd". Who usually at puberty leave normal racial advancment, Appearing to stall into Runts/minions, but begin to suffer from the "nightmares" and physical and/or social "wanderlust" that drives them from the pack.
___All Heroes begin this way, what they become is guided partially by their dreams/nightmares [players wishes] and partially their [characters] desires. Joining with a master to guide their mutation to a full talent Hero.

So I need zero level 'Vampyr' [note I don't say Vampire, as that is the regular non-runt creature], just like I need 'Wyrr-creatures' [honestly thinking about henjiki, and adding wolf, bat, bear, and such], 'Stoneskyns' [(gargoyle)I'm thinking of creating a minimum flight speed and maximum flight agility to make underground flight very difficult], and ??

 I came up with the idea of racial or class "cantrips" that only work on mundanes.
   *Masque; creates an illusion of you only as Munadane, or not Fae. ie (forest gnome as rock gnome, or human child)
   *Woodland Masque; creates a small 3-d 5x5x5 illusion, normally of some woodland item to hide in or block view
   *Heal skin; a cantrip a Vampyre can cast as drinking. or a cleric can cast on mundane at no cost that heals one hp damage on a mundane only (the vampyr recover hp damage by drinking blood this )
   *In command; A fighter can use this 'cantrip' in battle and and place per level either two 0-level corporals [Craft (soldier)] or 5 grunts no skill.
   *Champion; casting in battle allows a fighter to strike attempt as many 0-levels Mundanes, or Runts, as the fighter has levels. if not facing another level hero in battle. This "takes down" the mundane 0-level character on a hit, like shroders cat you don't know until after the battle if they died, went unconcious played dead and ran, or what.
   *... any ideas?

 While thinking about cantrips that only affect mundanes.  I thought that some races, or clans might have such special cantrips. Some example is the ability of some races to 'masque' themselves from Mundanes. The Fae; Greyalf clans, Woodland Spirits [(forest gnomes) As well as a 'masque' cantrip, they have an 'woodland masque' cantrip]- the Astral taints of blood; Assimar clans, Tiefling clans- and those with Elemental taints; * & Stoneskyn-.

I don't want mundanes completely helpless, so I have thought about could iron, silver, steel having affecting issues on the race or racial cantrip.
 The Greyalf clan [Grey Elves, Faery] taking +1 damge from silver.
 The cantrips may be affected by cold iron, most particularly the Woodland Spirits.
 The elemental tainted have a 3-4 hp immunity to their elemental type. but possibly a extra hp damage from the opposing element.
 The Stoneskyn a 1 hp imunity to all damage. but cold iron bye passes it.

Any ideas of clans or races missed, or possible Cantrips which will underline the difference between the Classed heroes and the Mundane on the street?

Noting the need to go away from the herd/group consider the genetic imperative that includes spreading out and mixing up the gene pools. Every species has some degree of this. The story of rabbits in Watership Down relates to this.  That overcrowding encourages a portion of the group to move off. Doesn't necessarily need to be horror. The female rabbits top making babies when overcrowded.

A herd having a high number of runts might insist that it is time for a herd split. The better ones staying where they are. The others might be in 2 or 3 groups with no one wanting the runts (PCs) so they find themselves lumped together. The other groups would be in the area for possible interaction.

One of the other spread out groups might later attack the runts. They could even have family members in that group. Good RP challenge.
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:49, Sun 24 Jan 2016.

   In the sense you are talking about, there are two forms of runts, one with largest numbers, is the "minion runt" [1hp max per dice, all average ability scores] these flock to the strongest of the herd for protection here are more than random would generate.

   The Heroic Runts [Classed Heroes; hp and advance as normal class] are designed as the the sword to the demi-talents [Class Leaders; level linked and limited to organizational position] sheild. The Heroic runts who level are very literally the "murder hobos" of the competing "herds".  The problem in a heavily civilized society is which herd agains what herd. I long recognized that a villain or arch villian, is nothing but a hero of an opposing "herd" [society, social-class, or social sub-class]. The Assassin the hero of those who havew or think they have no Good way out.
   Socially what happens in my Campaign is that when these runts or runted mundanes hit puberty a fixed number begin to have "nightmares" these are learning patterns running throught the Teens mind during sleep.

  When this happens in civilized areas the child is apprenticed to a appropriate guild, slave or prince it doesn't matter the Heroic imperitive is more powerful then mortal will or law.  While some Teens might be better at mêlée combat, or arcane the guilds know how to evoke the learning dreams that lead to their class or classes. A prince is still a prince but a heroic prince.  A slave.. forget it the law and society knows better the slave goes to the guild where socially they become the equivilent of the Gentles [Thrall, Slave, Serf, "Good"folk, Gentles, Nobles, Royals, Imperials], and given a civil equivalent of a Knights belt.  The guild charges fees for their members "letters of marche and reprisal" [this helps control which "herds" the Heroes attack] and get a slice of Marche Court costs. this money goes to pay of any debts the Hero starts with, like paying off a Master losing a thrall, slave or serf.

   So while these Heroes are part of a Socially class conscious world, they while socially important may have family of slave or thrall social class.  Even a Thief Class is considered Gentleman as long as not caught breaking noble law. Another part is where the Runts, minion & heroes meet is that once the The heroes are belted they are considered strong and important people. They can attract minion runts, as personal servants.

leadership feat is altered; it is dual natured one the classed hero, attraction remains the same mostly useless  until 6th level, but the Heroes can attract mundane 0-level races [less then 1d8, no class] and Minions [as above] the Heroes level limits their followers, use, skill level, and numbers.
The NPC classes in my campaign, Aren't, "NPC", the Adept, Aristocrat, Commoner, Expert, and Warrier, gain minions, property [entailed income; "household" use only], and pluses to levels on the mundane leadership chart; To balance their deliberate crippling.
Adept,
Aristocrat; Valet "profesion Housemaster" [in new household runs 4 minions; each only 20 skill point per level of Aristocrat]
Commoner; 4 Minion Siblings
Expert,
Warrier;

In less civilized or "evil" races, the spliting and combat between "herd" would be common, and as I allow a Heroic Runt to take over a Heroic leadership spot that already exists.  a player could have their character encourge a split then take over a tribe "herd", military unit, or pack of bandits.
This message was last edited by the player at 15:18, Tue 02 Feb 2016.