Because I've been out of the loop more often than not, if there are any questions for me specifically, please ask them here. Keep it game centric, or at least related. When the game starts I'll use this to keep abreast of any clarifications I need to make about the scenes.

I need couple rulings;

A) How you rule 20th level Dread Necromancer feature; Lich Transformation.



There have been some arguments it does not grant a lich template while others say it does (but without level adjustment, because it's a class feature, it even mentions you don't pay XP nor gold for phylactery which is a central feature being a lich).

B) In regards Undead Mastery, it's similar to Corpsecrafter feat. The feat and feature do not stack in granted bonuses wise (besides adding HP together so every undead created has +4 HP per HD), would it be okay with such a feature to assume your treated having corpsecrafter feat for feats that are associated in you having corpsecrafter feat?

Secondly, with Undead Mastery (not corpsecrafter), when you become a lich, do you as lich gain benefits from Undead Mastery? As after all, as dread necromancer, you are creating yourself into undead. The benefits would not be game-breaking really in levels we operate in (and won't stack anyways if have potent magic items).

C) Would it be okay to add the Deathbound domain to Wee Jas? Or able use the domain at all as Wee Jas cleric? Asking because the only god which canonically gives it is Afflux (introduced in the same book where the domain is introduced) and all honestly Afflux can be a more harmful god for party cooperation-wise.

If not allowed access Deathbound domain normally, would it be okay to access it via feat or as class feature as added extra domain?

I have two questions, not so much about rules but about how to keep the game orderly for you.

A - Would you like me to create all of my cohorts and followers and if so in how much detail?
B - Do I need a separate section of my sheet to describe my ship in detail (although full
    disclosure - I can't draw plans)?

In reply to Hathra Bonecrown (msg # 2):

A) You get the Lich Template as a class feature. The template is not otherwise paid for, by ECL, gold, or XP. Do bear in min, you DO have phylactery and it is in all ways as if paid for. If it's destroyed it means your character requires revive undead. Because your character is innately undead, however, you cannot be resurrected unless you will lose that class level that awards the template.

You will need to decide what your phylactery is, where it is, and any ward you have with it. Also note, I do not allow reviving or vampires or liches that are in their interim. So the (IIRC) 1d10 days, you're MIA.

B) Please ask this again ASAP. I do not have the time today to answer. I'm assuming you're wanting to fulfill criteria that requires the feat, and feel the class feature does this, and want to eschew a useless feat. If this is correct, I'm inclined to say yes, but if I do, I'll probably be opening up other PrCs and criteria to make the arguement Improved Toughness > Toughness and counts as such, and similar arguments. I'm still deliberating, and so don't take my inclination (to say yes) as my default answer. Ask again later.

B.i) No, your lich template does not gain undead mastery. This is not created, but augmented. You were never dead, you were not created. Thus no, only corpses that are created benefit from this. The same would be true if you found an epic spell with seeds sufficient to change someone without killing them (don't expect you'd do that though, it's just as citation).

C) I'll deliberate on this as well. Reason being is I'm not opening my books, because I'm homeless and have to either use illegal pdfs, trust quotations, or (can't!) buy the legal pdfs. So I am waiting until I can lay eyes on the actual book. Which is in storage at an estranged person's home. At worst, I'll trust a quote if homelessness persists, or if the storing persons renege to keep my things.

In reply to Ghanek Brightwave (msg # 3):

A) Great question! Please build them or copy paste them from somewhere. I wish I had more time to make them, but I don't.

Followers are IMO fine up until 2nd and 1st level. You can batch them to a job, such as that multiple people (with distinct personalities) effectively have templates that are nearly or completely identical sheets. 1st levels require this to be the latter. You can have up to a dozen 1st level templates.

If you get epic leadership, this applies to anything that surpasses 120 followers. Even ninety, I would be fine with you having, say, twenty distinct sheets. I'd still probably hard cap your total followers, minions, constructs, familiars, animal companion, mount, steed, cohort, and any other extraneous character sheets to a hundred. This is meant to be an unnecessary limit. It is a real limit, however. Please, to begin, just the ones you find most pertinent. I will certaonly allow you to "fill" slots as we play. Trust me, I am not a veteran RPoL GM. All but two of my D&D games died on RPoL. don't waste time to begin with. You are certainly welcome to add more as time goes on.

Feel free, also, to say sheets are vague (which equates to saying "unlisted in GM hands") and have purpose and a select number of criteria. Will, my friend, the one who initially spawned this game, who was going to play the Dread Necromancer. He's played Rixthar face to face, and he had numerous labor unions; like sewer workers, those that cast light, or those that cast mount. That's all he really listed on them besides level, race and class.

If you want me to create some personalities, please do feel free to save me some of those spots. I will happily do the previous paragraph and just gloss over missing criteria until it's needed.

Please also feel free to leave slots completely open, so I can introduce you gaining a new follower from scratch. Such as actually having a character join you, and playing out that acquisition of loyalty.

I LIKE playing the followers! In fact, I like it so much, I reserve the ability to post for your followers or cohort. Please MAKE your cohort though. Please also make at least one template for each level. They can even be a scalable version if you (or anyone else) just wants a very homogeneous union, like a mage coven.

I hope that answers your question.

B) Please pick a ship from arms and equipment or PHB outfitted with any Shipwrack (or other books') magic items. You can describe it in text, but if you don't I have some pictures you can use for battlemaps, and I will give you creative fiat to change things (then permanently) on the fly that don't match then picture. I use battlemaps. So I'd like to use the maps I have if you're fine with it. With your degree of profession sailor, if you can take a 10, you can sail river rapids in an ocean worthy vessel and keep the ship fro sinking (it may be severely damaged! and need repair though). A more apt comparison is hat a gale force wind is about what you'd need to even challenge a roll, and even then, you could probably take a 10 if it weren't a serious scene. Even a low d20 result would probably be sufficient to sail in gale force winds. So the design is more flavor. That should be set in stone until it's (easily) changed in game, but it doesn't need to (or should be) exhaustive. The battlemaps I have will be sufficient for marine combat. That's really what it comes down to. If you leave it to me, I'll give you several choices to look over that best match your ship. I have my bias, as I think some are just (not) objectively better. In the end, they'll do what they need to.

In reply to Narrator V (msg # 4):

The B is about an Undead Mastery being the same as the feat (almost). Both give +4 enchantment bonus to Str and Dex scores for undead and +2 extra HP per HD (as if undead had +2 Con modifier). Enchantment bonuses do not stack at all; the only difference between Undead Mastery and Corpsecrafter is that it specifies undead created by necromancy spells (Undead Mastery only mentions 'create' so it applies even methods outside necromancy spells).

Also, undead mastery changes the controlled undead formula as well (no longer depends on caster level but depends on dread necromancer class level instead and increases the number of controlled undead dramatically as well the number of HD of undead affected by command undead spell).

On C I can wait on the answer, but below is a quote of what death domain grants (copypasted from here; http://eberronunlimited.wikidot.com/domain:deathbound).




Considering that the dread necromancer controlled undead depends on the dread necromancer class level than the caster level, if the other side has a cleric then the undead controlled by the cleric caster level is separated from the dread necromancer (so thus needing two separated list of undead which are controlled by dread necromancer feature and other for undead controlled by cleric caster level).

In reply to Hathra Bonecrown (msg # 6):

B) Why do you want the ruling though? I'm assuming it's criteria requisite, and you want to not have to take useless feat. As in, the feat is redundant, but something you do want calls for that the feat, to access the desired content. Is this correct?
C) I realize the distinction already, I need to deliberate.

In reply to Narrator V (msg # 7):

B: Yes, it's indeed correct. Corpsecrafter is a pre-requisite for a chain of other feats; Bolster Resistance, Deadly Chill, Destruction Retribution, Hardened Flesh, and Nimble Bones. All these feats enhance undead created (Bolster Resistance example gives all created undead turn resistance+4, so thus harder to be turned or rebuked).

If give a raw comparison it's the same you are given a class feature which functions like a power attack but it's not called a power attack and I want able to take feats related to power attack without needing to take a feat which would be completely redundant.

B) Then my stance stands. If I allow it, I'll probably be seeing many cases of this for other prerequisites. I don't mind doing that on principle, I just don't know that I want to yet. Having useless feats is something some characters may be saddled with. I want to be egalitarian on my ruling. I also would like this to be discussed with your players and how that would affect their decisions or requested decisions. I do understand it's redundant, but I stand that many feats are speed bumps. I rationalize this as a "feat costs two (or more) feats". The feat is actually not a bad, which might seem to allow it to be skipped, but that seems counter to the spirit of simply useless feats that there isn't such a substitution for.

I'll have to to think about it.
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:05, Thu 13 Oct 2022.

V, are you ok with removing the alignment restriction from warlock (ie, only evil and/or chaotic)?

No.
Is that being talked about in the discussion thread?
I can't keep up with it all, but it looked like that. I also saw "giggles" in reference to Wee Jas and Lolth which made me leery.

Please inform people to try to keep this simple and straight, and not to test the boundary, but stay clear within it.

I'm considering buying ships for my cohort and one or two of my followers.  Would this be feasible?

In reply to Ghanek Brightwave (msg # 15):

Your cohort has NPC wealth for their level. Your followers the same. If you, your character, wants to pitch in gold to do that, they can. Not vice versa though. That said, I wouldn't buy equipment yet. You don't know what other wealth rules I'll be using.

I discovered that deathbound got errated. The errata is change wording from 'controlling' to 'creating'. Meaning deathbound domain does not increase amount of undead you control but what you can create at single casting of the animate dead or similar spells. So I can create three times of HD of undead with a spell than just double my CL.

Even with errata, would still take the domain as the ability to mass produce undead at once in single cast is a useful trait for necromancer.

Should we go for Gestalt are we using the fractional BAB progression? This was suggested after someone pointed out that if you had Figther1/Sorcerer19 // Wizard 20 that by the table you would in effect have a BAB +20. If you use the fractional you would get a +10 at level 20.

In reply to Vythisk (msg # 18):

Fractional BAB and saves would be fine with me.

In reply to Vythisk (msg # 18):

Would be fine with fractional as well.

In reply to Vythisk (msg # 18):

I'm not sure where you got the +20. With fractional you would have a +10. With normal, you'd have a +10. The 1 fighter adds a full +1. It's only for non full BAB classes that fractional part comes into play. You don't carry your original BAB from a a class, only max skill ranks carry over. If, however, you were a battle sorcerer, or and you had some mid BAB PrC it would help it go up.

That said, I'm fine for fractional saves and BAB. Saves are what normally gets out of hand quickly, BAB is what lags normally. So I'm all for fractional bonuses.

I didn't say it made sense. It was an exploit tried by some of the earliest people to use gestalt. By offsetting Wizard and Sorcerer it would seem by glancing at the tables you go ta +1 every level.

In reply to Vythisk (msg # 22):

Oh...I understand...yeah, that is a deliberate (and unacceptable) exploit. Veeeery tricky. ;) Thanks for giving me the citation. :) Even after this many years, I'm learning new ways people game the system, instead of playing the game.

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Spoiler for my foundation of "Fixes" and rulings: (Highlight or hover over the text to view)
I played LG (Living Greyhawk) during my D&D hayday. So many Triad rulings sort of carried over to face to face games. Since LG (LC and LK) didn't use Gestalt this topic never came up. I do remember seeing a character at an APL ten table with a 9th level character with +14 to their base saves. They weren't very helpful to the table though, as I recall. Too much they multiclassed into was redundant by the other five of us.

---

I digress.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:37, Tue 18 Oct 2022.

In reply to Narrator V (msg # 23):

Re: Spoiler, Narrator_V, I *loved* LG.  Haven't had much like it before or since.  I made many friends that've persisted through the years and have amazing memories of playing at cons with my (departed) brother and his Dwarven Defender.

I've met players very much like the high save PC you mention.  An APL 14 table with a +6 or 8 BAB, 3rd or 4th level spells, a stack of pointless prerequisite feats, and absolutely no focus at all.