Actually, I think the pbp VnV killer is the character with ht spd twice. Once everyone else waits through the two weeks to play their first half dozen actions in a turn, the other players lose interest.

Is there a witch hunt against Magic Spells going on on RPOL?

If you look at the VnV Forum there are a lot of examples of Magic Spells and none of them are as butchered as what is being discussed here as of late.

What is next Animal Powers gets you only one power?

Nearly as powerful does not mean useless.

This game has a lot of luck in character generation. That makes it a lot like comics. Go watch the Avengers this weekend. Some of those guys did not roll so lucky, others did.

Why the need to go out of the way to cripple magic spells?

Should weather Control really grant five powers? Yeah that is cool. Or we could really cut it up and then maybe you could make it drizzle.

No witch hunt, but that's a funny way to phrase that.  HA

Nearly as powerful to me seems like somewhere between 2/3 or 1/2 a regular power.

But there's so many creative ways to make spells, they can be different / weaker versions than powers but you could mix stuff up, like:

• Pyromancy -- Flame power defense, add 1d10 carrier flame damage to attacks, PR = 1 per turn.
• Grease -- Slippery oil appears all around the character, making everything slippery.  Anyone within the radius must save vs AGI to remain standing.  Chance to move past target, very hard to stop movement, any use of a device/item has a 30% chance to fail.

The thing I least like about Magic Spells is when players simply copy existing powers.  There are ~ 70 powers more or less (with lots of little variations) -- but why not emulate/copy some of the D&D-styled spells?
Fireballs, Stinking Cloud, Bigby's Grasping Hand, etc?

I go with 2/3. Less than that does not reach the definition of nearly.

ie 1/2 can be nearly empty or nearly full.

I am thinking more IP put to one spell could make it the same as a power.

I wouldn't do it that way, but I'd let the extra IP be a power stunt for the spell, somehow.

Magic spells is so overpowered anyway.

I liked that line about Animal Powers being 1 power, too.  HA HA

Yeah, a wicked set of rolls would be 8 powers:
3x Height Speed
4x Animal Powers
1x Height Agi
and some weakness that everyone loves in V&V, like 'Special Requirement' or 'Mute'.

I liked "Find Familiar" idea.

Saw it here:
http://pferrant.tripod.com/Vil...igilantes1-24-04.pdf

Makes sense, a weaker form of "pet" power...?

In reply to Silver Dragon (msg # 18):

I hate mute, would drop a good power not to have it.

Wow. Those "house rules" are almost as long as the rules themselves. That is one dedicated GM.

Generally, char's have some 'work around' for mute.

Never seen a player play mute & not be telepathic, have illusions, etc.

So far, I've always enjoyed it.  And I find it somewhat humorous just how many mute players there are in V&V.

How about a team of ninjas who all are mute and have a psi power which blocked mind-reading?  HA

But I don't think the weakness should work as a strength...?

I keep getting characters who have "Weakness - Prejudice".

Prejudice is a terrible weakness, but mentioning it gave me an idea:

Magic Spell - Forced Prejudice, reverses the target's apparent "Side" for the duration of the spell, affects all reaction, loyalty, and morale rolls. The target is not aware they are affected.
PR, duration, etc. GM fiat

Would you be willing to spend a Spell Slot on that?  I could see later on, like Level 5 or so -- but earlier it's quite subtle & relies on others reactions to have it have any impact.

I like it, but generally I make the hero more of a 'vigilante'.  (More of a Batman/Punisher type.)
My most recent character with this weakness is a 'nice guy' but he has a newspaper that is framing him for crimes.  Kinda fun, that one.  (Reminds me of Spiderman.)

Let's keep this thread focused on spells. I moved the last comment to a similar discussion in rules discussion thread.

Do people think this spell is too overpowered?

'LightFoot' -- a weaker Heightened Speed (add to move 1d100 x3" + INIT bonus, PR=2 per round to activate, no action required), can run and jump on air, run vertical up walls, upside-down on ceiling, etc.

I'd like to add it to my character, Silver Dragon, continuing his theme from those unrealistic Kung Fu movies where you hear the flapping sound & super-powered Kung Fu masters jump up/down huge distances, run up walls, jump on breezes or clouds or thrown coins/papers, etc.

While I think it's a neat spell, it falls in the "weaker than a power" description of Magic Spells but it also could be very useful.

Maybe the INIT bonus is too much, esp if this ability grants a good 'move' ability?

In reply to Silver Dragon (msg # 26):

Running and jumping on air and upside down on ceilings makes it stronger than Heightened Speed in many ways. I could see it giving a bonus to jumping and the PR cost per turn is reasonable enough.

The multiplier is x3 instead of x10, and for most games the running on walls & so on is more 'special effect' than really going to affect much, so IMO it's still weaker than Height Speed (at least 1/3 weaker).

The rules didn't actually specify what the character could do with 'Lightfoot' running, so maybe it'd be 3x jumping, or vertical up a 100' wall, or maybe the GM would say -- it's too high or too long a jump, or make an AGI check to make it, etc etc.

Rather than build more rules into V&V, personally I like powers that can do something -- but you may not know their full effectiveness, or if certain scenarios are too much for them...?

I suppose many/most GM's would want some wording to that effect -- or perhaps they'd need a hard/fast rule on what "can run and jump on air, run vertical up walls, upside-down on ceiling, etc" means?

Actually, the long leaps in those kung fu movies are very much like the jumping rules for someone with an extremely low weight. The rate per phase was always based on Carrying Capacity, but the number of phases airborne was based on actual weight. I've always considered the following as a good VNV spell of the 'oriental mystic' school:

Karumi-Jutsu - use one action per turn (to indicate concentration) to reduce the characters weight by a factor of seven (210 pound character appears to weigh 30 pounds), the following affects will occur
• The Feather Floats to Earth: Changes in terminal velocity divide the damage from falls by 2.5, before any other factors are taken into affect.
• The Grasshopper Leaps to Safety: The number of phases the character remains airborne while jumping is multiplied by 7.
• The Monkey Climbs the Beech Tree: The character can climb any normal surface (not teflon or glass) by making an agility save.
• The Panther Stalks His Prey: the lighter character steps so quietly that all attempts to detect his footfalls have the success rate reduced by 20%.

Depending on the campaign, the spell could be beefed up, but I should point out that I mentioned no PR or other restrictions on the spell.

@ Star Master  <-- I like a lot of what your idea does, but I have issues with a few parts:


Why would the art affect the char's weight?  Makes no sense to me.


I do like using the ability cuts the fall damage, but dividing damage by 2.5 is far different than ignoring the first 20-30 points of falling damage, for instance.


Is the goal here to extend the reach of the jump?  Why not just multiply the distance, rather than the time?


This one I really like!  I'd probably want the character to move at normal rate, so they could 'run up' the tree/wall/rooftop/elevator shaft/etc.


I like this concept, but in V&V some char's can have Detects of >80%.  Maybe just say can't be detected by hearing, or doesn't touch the surface, etc?
I've got a character who detects vibration -- this ability would imply that he takes 20% off his detect, but I don't think this ability would affect detect vibration...?

Sorry to quibble, I think the general scope & ideas behind this are great.

Was thinking,

Why not just skip the AGI save and say they can do it, unless it's some surface which is (for some reason(s)) unclimbable?

All of those affects are based on weight reduction. Karumi-Jutsu is one of those legendary abilities claimed by historic masters of oriental martial arts. The difference in falling damage is based on the difference in terminal velocity that results from weight being divided by seven. The leaping is directly from the leaping calculations, assuming the weight is divided by seven. As we're simply reducing weight, an agility save would be appropriate for climbing; for the same reason the changes of being heard are reduced, but not eliminated.
Besides, the idea was that all of these effects occur at the same time. In addition, the character could be thrown farther by another character, and there should be some increase in the distance the character could be knocked back by attacks. It would also be appropriate to reduce the amount of damage the character could cause in hand to hand combat.

I guess you pointed out my beef with these spells; they're more like "rules tweaking" than spells which are aimed at the effect.

It's like "Oh, we're playing ShadowRun?  Well, my guy has an implant which gives him 10 extra points of initiative."

Rather than saying Karumi-Jutsu allows someone to do X, Y, or Z, it seems like you're focussing on the way V&V works & trying to 'rules tweak' to make your effect (ie tweaking key variables), rather than a simple spell effect like "jumps an extra 20 feet" or "jumps 2x distance" or "doesn't take damage from falls".

I probably have made spells like this -- my fav's are the "works like Height Stat A for any stat" spells -- but the aim is to represent movable ability 'boosts', and it functions somewhat like other powers.

If I was GM'ing those abilities, I'd push the player to focus less on how V&V rules are supposed to work & more on how the power(s) would affect their character.

1) Willpower (A): PR=1
2) Weather Control Device: Magical Staff: See pages 18-19 for a full description of this power. 18 charges.
3) Heightened Intelligence (A): +12
4) Body Power: Retarded Aging: He has magically slowed his aging process.
5) Heightened Charisma (B): +13
6) Pet: Talon: A Peregrine Falcon. Use the stats for an Eagle from page 46 of the rulebook.
7) Magic Spells:
a) Deflection: Save vs. Agility to deflect magical based attacks back at attacker. Only usable from front or side arcs.
b) Thunderbolt: Attacks as Lightning Control. PR=3, R=End x 2 (46”), 1d12 damage
c) Thunderclap: Attacks as Sonic Abilities. PR=4, R=End x 2 (46”), 1d12 damage
d) Fireball: Attacks as Flame Powers. PR=2 , R = End x2 (46“), 1d12 damage
e) Forget: Target must save vs. Int or forgets. R=Int, PR=variable (See table)

1 thought - PR=1
5 min - PR=3
1 hour - PR=5
1 day - PR=7
1 week - PR=12
1 month - PR=20
1 Year - PR=25

f) Sphere of Protection: Affects the user as though he were protected by a Force Field. R=Self, PR=1 per turn, +1 per two points of damage stopped.
g) Shrink: Unwilling targets must save vs. Endurance or be shrunken to 6” in height. R=Int, PR=3
h) Portal: Acts as Dimensional Travel. Special Requirement: Must use a normal doorway as a focus for this spell. PR=5
I) Flight: PR=1 per hour. 115“ (max speed is based on 5 x Endurance).
j) Dispel Magic: PR=6* To successfully dispel a spell cast by another, he must successfully roll his inventing percentage, or lower, on 1d100 - the level of the individual who cast the spell. He may increase his percentage chance by spending additional power. For each additional point spent, he increases his chance to succeed by 2%.
k) Mirror Image: Creates multiple illusions of him. R = Int, PR=3+1 for each additional image.
l) Invisibility: PR=2 per hour.
m) Spirit Drain: Attacks Devitalization Ray, R=Int x 2 (52”),
n) Fickle Fingers: Drains 1d6 Agility. Target must save vs. Endurance to resist effects. Affected characters recover 1 point of Agility per hour. R=Int, PR=4
o) Shield: Defends as though it were force field. R=Int (26”)

http://www.fantasygamesunlimit...3d462281e19484253426

I was under the apparently false impression that if a character had Magic Spells, that when they level up they could train in Magic Spells & get a new spell.  I've played V&V like this forever.

Am I completely lost?  Where did I get this idea?  Does anyone else play it the same?

I'm not trying to 'over-rule' the GM so much as understand where I got the idea?
Maybe it was the 'training - whatever' section?

THANKS
This message was last edited by the player at 08:36, Mon 27 May 2013.

By the book, the character "may create new spells according to the Inventing procedure (see section 6.3)"
As per the inventing procedure, a description of the spell should be submitted to the GM (who decides if it's predestined to fail, if it's too powerful for the campaign, etc). The procedure mentions the needed skill as possibly requiring research costs. I've always assumed the 'skill' was part of the power, and did not require research costs, or allow assistance from outside sources. I've also assumed the resources for the spell were available, and ignored the implications of this part of the inventing procedure when applied to spells. As it specifically mentions the Inventing procedure, and in the Inventing procedure it specifically lists two types of inventions, I've also allowed 'OneShot Magical Spells'. They consume an inventing point, but do not become permanent additions to the character, however they are 'always good for at least one effective use'.

However, as characters get new inventing points each level, and the main reason magical spells are a worthwhile power is the growth potential, most character with the power will spend the first part of each level working out their new spell.

Some GMs have their own rules. But magic Spells should allow on average one spell + per level with invention points. If the character had heightened intelligence more.

Magical Spells:
The power to work magic and to create new and unique magical
forces. The character starts with one beginning spell of his own
design (the GM should work with the character to create a useful
and reasonable power). From then on, he may create new spells
according to the Inventing procedure (see section 6.3). The effects,
power costs, etc., of each new spell must be outlined by the
character, and the GM may modify its parameters or refuse to
allow it if the character is asking too much. Each spell should be
nearly as powerful as a regular super power.

Experience Level Bonuses
A. Training: All players are assumed to be constantly training in their
spare time, and to be consciously attempting to improve some
aspect of themselves, even while in the field. At the start of the
game, and upon attaining each new level of experience, each
player should note under ‘Training’ on his character record sheet
which of the following he is undertaking. The bonus described is
received when the next highest level is attained, whereupon new
training is initiated (or the same training may be continued), etc.

Type of Training: Bonus Received:
Basic Characteristic
(specify which one):
+1 on that characteristic score
Gain Weight: Trade one point of S or E for additional
weight in pounds equal to the value of
the point traded (i.e. S 24 reduced to S
23 yields +24 pounds of weight).
Lose Weight: % Chance of success = (I + E + Level) x
2%. If successful, percentage chance of
success / 10 equals the percentage of
the character's weight that is lost. If the
number of pounds lost exceeds the
player’s S or E scores he may add +1 to
the scores that are exceeded.
Combat Accuracy
(specify weapon/attack):
+1 to the player’s chances of hitting
with the weapon or attack chosen.
Combat Damage
(specify weapon/attack):
+1 to the damage caused by the
player with the weapon or attack chosen.
Education (choose the
skill area to be received):
The player receives background in
whichever occupation area he is being
educated in. An instructor must be
located who has skill in that area. See
the list in 4.3, but new ones can be
made up. See also 6.3.
Animal Training (specify): The animal/creature being trained may
be given one type of training except
Education, or can be taught highly
complex tricks - simple tricks can be
taught in other ways (see 8.5).
Whatever: If the GM allows it (which he should if it
seems reasonable) it’s legal.
This message was last edited by the player at 10:28, Mon 27 May 2013.

Have a new character, SuperFat Man, who's powers derive from his body power 'super fat' (fat which is tougher than steel and stronger than muscle).  He's got magic spells as well, and I've been adding on to his body powers.

So far he's got a few nice spells, namely:

SuperJump -- he can jump really far (like Hulk)
Slappity Clap - attack does HTH at range.
Super-Toughened-Fat - Adaptation & Invuln 10 pts, action + PR cost to activate.
Regeneration - when food is present

Working on next spells -- might be based on food.  Haven't really figured out good ones.

SFM has decent HTH damage but no bonuses to hit (which requires him to use improvised weapons or thrown stuff), and lots of HP.  I'd like him to be a more effective TANK.  I don't often play tanks, and SFM is supposed to be a big stupid tank.

Thoughts so far:

Jelly Beans - SF Man has special jelly beans, each w/a minor effect, which he can replenish at HQ.

Blue - SF's super jump works in water.
Red - SF can eat pure fire as a food, gets a fire-breath attack.  (like absorb Fire)
Green - SF's skin turns green, giving a bonus to hide in forests/greenery. (invisibility in natural environment)
Orange - SF can drink large volumes of water/liquid and spray it (ie vs fires).

Do people think this is overpowered?  Thinking Jelly Beans could be STRONGER & work as individual spells, but original thought was they were weak.  Maybe I should make them stronger & just have the jelly beans be more of an 'in game' explanation, rather than linking it to the power?
This message was last edited by the player at 08:42, Wed 28 Aug 2013.