Rockwolf66
 member, 49 posts
Wed 27 Feb 2019
at 02:43
GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
I'm interested but what concept do you have game wise?
evileeyore
 member, 154 posts
 GURPS GM and Player
Wed 27 Feb 2019
at 05:40
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
swordchucks:
Body swapping (ala Eclipse Phase) is something GURPS really struggles with, too.

Actually it's super easy, barely an inconvenience.

You're just not really doing it "the Eclipse Phase way".  You divorce ST, HT, HP and FP from the Character's bought stats entirely, these are based completely on the shell.  IQ, Dx, and Per become 'maximums', where once in the shell the upper bound is set by the lower of the shell or the PC's stats.  Will is completely set on by the PC's stats.

Shells become equipment.  Buyable, rentable, etc.




Hendell:
Trying to do Cyberpunk with less than 150 points would be silly, for Eclipse phase 200 is probably the minimum and I could see Altered Carbon working as high as 500 if you use points to buy everything.

I think doing CP on less than 2-300 points is silly, but that depends on how you're doing cyberware and how desperate and 'street' level incompetent trash you want the Characters to be.
swordchucks
 member, 1547 posts
Wed 27 Feb 2019
at 14:48
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
evileeyore:
swordchucks:
Body swapping (ala Eclipse Phase) is something GURPS really struggles with, too.

Actually it's super easy, barely an inconvenience.

There's a ton of specifying necessary to make bodies equivalent to gear, though.  Transhuman Space doesn't help much because the default there is that you're buying bodies with CP so the cash values don't necessarily make a lot of sense.

I don't disagree that the way to go is to turn bodies into equipment, but it's a fair amount of work to get from that decision to the system you'll actually use in play.
evileeyore
 member, 155 posts
 GURPS GM and Player
Wed 27 Feb 2019
at 23:16
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
swordchucks:
There's a ton of specifying necessary to make bodies equivalent to gear, though.

Just stats and prices... and every shell and bioroid in Transhuman Space has a $ cost.
Rockwolf66
 member, 50 posts
Thu 28 Feb 2019
at 03:28
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
evileeyore:
I think doing CP on less than 2-300 points is silly, but that depends on how you're doing cyberware and how desperate and 'street' level incompetent trash you want the Characters to be.


I have had some pretty fun games down at the 150 point level. That being said it depends on the game concept. A band of Power armored Vigilantes would be built on a much higher point cost.
baxtheslayer
 member, 44 posts
Thu 28 Feb 2019
at 10:16
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
I agree that swapping bodies is probably just a matter of stats and prices.  That being said, I also agree that there's a ton of details that would need to be considered.  Foremost on my mind, I'm leery of allowing stats, advantages, and disadvantages which are purchased with character points and relatively permanent to be purchased with money and be fairly easy to exchange.  I think that it could be done, but I don't think I should try to do it in this game.  So, for now, I think switching bodies will be relegated to superscience.  If it's possible, it will be expensive, permanent, and essentially require re-creating some aspects of your character.  Think Self/less.

As for game concepts, here's what comes to mind:

  • A group of freelancers working for megacorporations that rule the world.  They could also be secret operatives doing black bag ops, or even law enforcement chasing down criminals in a gritty future.  Cyberpunk: Shadowrun (without the fantasy elements), Altered Carbon, Johnny Mnemonic, etc.  Could even extend out to the local star system.
  • A group of soldiers fighting against an unusual or unknown threat.  Less cyberpunk, more sci fi horror.  Aliens, mutants, or some other monsters.  Prey, Dead Space, DOOM 3 kind of stuff.

Those were the big two.

  • Also considered an Eclipse Phase style game where you fight to prevent the extinction of the human race.  Less about body swapping, more about preventing runaway nanobots or psychotic AI or other disasters.

Still researching, but I like the look of TL 10 with a few modifications (no Gravity Control or Antimatter, primarily).

Haven't had a chance to review points values deeply enough, but I'll tentatively say I'm usually not afraid to run games with more capable PCs.

I'd like to see who's interested in which of those concepts so we can narrow our focus and discuss details.  I'm mainly just excited about playing GURPS, but I'd have to say my preference is leaning towards the cyberpunk ideas.

This message was last edited by the user at 10:18, Thu 28 Feb.

NowhereMan
 member, 286 posts
Thu 28 Feb 2019
at 11:26
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
I'm good with either of the two big ones, leaning towards cyberpunk.
Hendell
 member, 166 posts
Thu 28 Feb 2019
at 14:13
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
I like the Altered Carbon/Johnny Mnemonic plan.

Would also play in an Eclipse Phase game even if it is yet another nanobot problem.
swordchucks
 member, 1548 posts
Thu 28 Feb 2019
at 15:53
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
My main complaint with the shells is that the prices in Transhuman Space just aren't good.  They don't seem to follow any real pattern and there's a weird gap between "player-affordable" and "no one can afford this".

It'd probably be easier to just give a generic price for "grades" of morph and then an array of points for attributes and advantages/disadvantages (along with a list of what can and can't be added).  Possibly with a set of packages for major types of shells (bioshells, cybershells, etc.).

Maybe a Grade 1 morph is allowed 50cp, at least 30 of which must be spent on attributes and costs $10,000?  Grade 2 is 75/50/$25,000, etc.?

I'd have the point totals increase at a steady rate and the prices increase at a faster rate (so the top of the line bodies really cost).



For concept, I really dislike the way Shadowrunners work, so something that makes more sense than that is preferable.  A multi-corp taskforce that hunts down terrorists might be interesting, especially if sometimes you find yourselves not sure who the good guys and the bad guys really are.

The general structure of Eclipse Phase uses Firewall, and that is basically the same thing in that you have a lot of interests pushing to keep everything from falling apart.  It doesn't have to be to the EP extent of human extinction, but it could be dedicated to keeping the cold war between the corporations cold.
baxtheslayer
 member, 45 posts
Thu 28 Feb 2019
at 17:45
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
swordchucks, could you be more specific about what you don't like about the way shadowrunners work?  What about it doesn't make sense?

I expect that to be one of the more popular options (though, I guess we'll have to wait to see what other responses we get), and am curious what we can do to make it more reasonable?

(By the way, I see your example of a megacorp anti-terror squad a perfectly viable shadowrunner group.)
swordchucks
 member, 1549 posts
Thu 28 Feb 2019
at 20:15
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
baxtheslayer:
swordchucks, could you be more specific about what you don't like about the way shadowrunners work?  What about it doesn't make sense?

Well, I suppose a lot of my opinion is wrapped up in the pretty bad games I've had where most of the character turn out to be sociopaths and every other job is a betrayal (and the rest involve entirely too much collateral damage).  In any kind of rational world, the corps would give up the concept of using those types of people as assets in the middle of major cities as a bad idea and liquidate the lot of them.  Those are maybe the kind of people you fund in a far-flung cesspit as "insurgents".

The whole idea of plucky, desperate misfits Standing Up to the Man is a very 80s trope, too, and thus kind of ignores how technology has marched on to fundamentally change how that would need to work.  Shadowrunners are very much the "80s way" of doing that.

As a setting, I do like it a lot, but it seems to work a lot better as either a street-level game or a game which never touches on Shadowrunners at all.

Played as a more reserved Ocean's X type heist game, it'd probably make more sense.  I just rarely see it played that way, which is a pity because it has a lot of potential.  Then again, that type of game has much more in common with Eclipse Phase than it does with what I consider typical Shadowrun.



As an add-on, I haven't had good experiences on RPOL with games that involve a lot of planning.  It can be VERY difficult to get the group to decide on a plan.
BlzBub666
 member, 385 posts
 Better The Devil ...
 ... You Know???
Thu 28 Feb 2019
at 23:09
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
My first choice would be a Cyberpunk game where the Characters are those "plucky, desperate misfits Standing Up to the Man".  A very 80's and well worn trope, but one that I enjoy very much.  It's a blast if you have the right people with you.  I don't even mind being part of a Corporation if it is one of the newer, up and coming ones who want to try and take down or hinder (in any way possible), some or all of the major megacorps.

As well, I agree that it can be very difficult to move the game forward if Players are stuck at the planning stage, but it should simply be a case of Players putting a plan forward, voting on the best one, and sticking to the one we voted for.  Every plan has pros and cons, it would be up to us to adapt to any and all variables along the way.  That's half the fun.
NowhereMan
 member, 287 posts
Thu 28 Feb 2019
at 23:29
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
I feel that the RPG Corporation is worth mentioning here, not because I would suggest running it in place of GURPS (why would you?), but because it's a cyberpunk setting centered around corporate agents - a la Syndicate - working to further the ends of their parent Corporation. Rather than fighting The Man, you are The Man. Or at least one of Them. Might be worth mining for inspiration if you go the corporate route.
Novocrane
 member, 402 posts
Fri 1 Mar 2019
at 00:40
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
I'd be interested in Corporation as a setting, or something more akin to RED (in terms of skill and ability) than the usual fare low-powered & desperate fight vs "The Man". There's room for overlap there, too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHPti5AVZXU

This message was last edited by the user at 07:49, Tue 05 Mar.

Rockwolf66
 member, 51 posts
Fri 1 Mar 2019
at 00:48
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
I do sort of like the idea of a group of freelance assets doing jobs for various people for their own reasons.
baxtheslayer
 member, 46 posts
Fri 1 Mar 2019
at 18:04
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
Yes, the punk aspect can come off as dated, but my IRL group had just evolved our Shadowrun games with other media.  Our last shadowrun game was about setting up a new branch of The Continental in our local area, sponsored by Dominic Toretto.  I'll just let that sink in.  I think Hotel Artemis is also a perfect example of a Shadowrun game.

So, for this game, I think we're leaning toward a near future game involving freelancers.  A couple of questions:

  • Do you work for the megacorps (Waldepotbuckssoft, etc)?  For an organization (The Exchange, The Syndicate, The Continental)?  For anybody (Lo-Teks, Methuselahs, or the Wolf King of LA)?
  • There won't be magic or any fantasy elements, but Psionics could possibly work.  Any interest?
  • Just Earth, or has the solar system been colonized (Eclipse Phase/Mutant Chronicles)?

Rockwolf66
 member, 52 posts
Fri 1 Mar 2019
at 18:19
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
I personally prefer more "freelance" options.
Psionics could be used by they should be very rare.

I could see the Solar system being colonized. There have been some settings that have had outer space as an element.
Tarrakhash
 member, 126 posts
 Danish is my pastry
 and I will use it!
Sat 2 Mar 2019
at 01:28
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
Sorry latecomer to the discussion, but I really enjoy the idea of being the Megacorps security/blackops team tasked with taking out targets in ways that may or may not be legal (This is very Firewall/Eclipse-phase-ey)

I prefer that over straight Shadowrun-esque feel as I have found it's very hard to keep a group together in that kind of game. Where as if we are all wage earners there is a reason to stick together...it's our job :P

That said I just watched Alita Battle Angel and being the plucky hero always appeals.

I'm not familiar with GURPS Psionics, which is fine as that's not really my schitck anyway so I'm happy with whatever the others think. Finally, I'm very partial to at least partial space. Whether it's just our Solar System or beyond I don't mind, but I do enjoy the idea of a Firefly/Mass Effect team in a ship flying from mission to mission.

If planning becomes a pain, then being a part of the Megacorp is great, as they can give us two or three ways in and we get to pick which of those we want to do. Simplifying the GM's job as he knows exactly what we are going to do.
helvorn
 member, 84 posts
Sat 2 Mar 2019
at 06:51
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
I think you want to have the whole solar system open to broaden the scope of adventure.

My thought would be that psionics might be a bit jarring with the entire Transhuman space or cyberpunk vibe.  I think you can do enough with the tech in the setting to not need psi even if it is very, very rare.

Freelancers who have enough street cred that they do some work for corps if not the biggest would be the best balance.  You might even have the players buy or give them a few points of reputation as 'Lancers.
baxtheslayer
 member, 47 posts
Sat 2 Mar 2019
at 10:34
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
Yeah, Psi was an afterthought.  I just wanted to see if anyone was really into it since GURPS has so many options.  We'll probably leave it out.

And, reading Eclipse Phase and Starfinder I'm liking the idea of a whole system to explore.  Feels like more options than an Earth-only game but not so many that it always feels unfamiliar.  I hear The Expanse is system-level, but I haven't seen it yet.

Just going over the Characters book and Ultra-Tech to nail down a Character Point total.

This message was last edited by the user at 06:38, Sun 03 Mar.

Rockwolf66
 member, 53 posts
Sat 2 Mar 2019
at 23:10
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
Don't forget GURPS Cyberpunk. I know it's 3rd ed but it does have some helpful tips.


Me I do like the "Freelance" option. Sort of like the old Gold Eagle series "Soldiers of Barrabas" when the characters are freelancers who come together for missions set up by their broker. In the SOBs series the client is usually the US government but in a Cyberpunk setting it could be some of the more ethical megacorporations.
NowhereMan
 member, 288 posts
Tue 5 Mar 2019
at 07:09
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
I think working for whoever can pay, in money, goods, or services, allows for more variety and freedom. Working for ourselves isn't out of the question, either. I was involved in a game once where the team bought up shares of a courier service, then set out on runs meant to hurt the courier's competition, including creating doubt as to the reliability and security of digital communication.

I'm not much of one for magic or psionics. Even in high fantasy settings, I tend to play warriors and rogues over mages.

I'm good with opening up places outside of Earth - even Shadowrun has orbital platforms and the like - so long as it doesn't become just another sci-fi planet-hopping game.
Rockwolf66
 member, 54 posts
Wed 6 Mar 2019
at 22:37
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
I should ask now. Are we still using GURPS and which edition of GURPS? I have mostly stuff for 4th edition with some 3rd edition stuff like GURPS Cyberpunk. What rating would the game be? Cyberpunk tends to be "adult" in themes and concepts.

Oh and I have a character idea and possibly a short story.
baxtheslayer
 member, 48 posts
Thu 7 Mar 2019
at 04:19
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
4th Edition.  And, yes, Adult.

I'm setting up the game now (description, thread bookkeeping, RTJ, etc).  I'll update with a link later this evening.
baxtheslayer
 member, 49 posts
Fri 8 Mar 2019
at 18:30
Re: GURPS? (Sci Fi/Cyberpunk Interest Check)
The game is live.

link to another game