Studynot
 member, 109 posts
Thu 30 Aug 2018
at 20:15
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
In my home game, I run a thieves guild game where all of the party work for the guild but they aren't all rogues. It's great fun.

Some are mixed class rogue/fighter, one is a monk, one a sorcerer. Only one of the party is a full rogue and he is an assassin!

So even though they arne't all rogues, it works because they have the guild's interests at heart. Especially in 5e with thieves tools coming from backgrounds, it is sooo much easier to mimic a thieves guild with various classes rather than just all having to be rogues or take levels in it just to have the right "skill mix" or whatever.
DaCuseFrog
 member, 13 posts
 SW Florida
Thu 30 Aug 2018
at 20:22
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
This is true.  I had originally thought to have everyone be Rogues to make it different than just another West Marches game with a new setting.  But perhaps I can change it up a bit when I post it; I'll think on it.
Studynot
 member, 110 posts
Thu 30 Aug 2018
at 20:54
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
In reply to DaCuseFrog (msg # 11):

If you want to make it different in that way, but still require some associations with roguish lifestyle, you could require one of a few things for each character to reflect some aspect of their association with a guild.
  • Rogue levels
  • Charlatan background
  • Criminal background
  • Urchin background
  • Maybe...Bounty Hunter just based on skills and tools it gets

Some characters could have more than one since the game would be at higher levels. I.e. Classic rogue levels with the Criminal background, and then a has an epiphany and beings to worship the rogue diety with the Trickery domain who blesses others who go to engage in jobs with their blessing of the trickster feature.

Or you could have a Fighter/Ranger with the Bounty Hunter background who is part of the guild's "enforcement/collections" division. Or a Sorcerer or Bard who focuses on enchantment/illusions and has the Charlatan background who does the Con's. Maybe a variant Human Monk/Rogue with theives tools and expertise who is part of the assassins portion of the guild.

Just some thoughts.
IkeEsq
 member, 18 posts
Thu 30 Aug 2018
at 21:02
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
In reply to DaCuseFrog (msg # 11):

I agree with Studynot that not everyone needs to be a thief/rogue class.  Having some muscle, some magic, some healing, etc. are all good things in a group intent on thieving.  The problem I run into with playing a thief in mixed parties is really with being in an adventuring party.  Often they have rather different goals and can be judgmental about thievery.  :)
DaCuseFrog
 member, 14 posts
 SW Florida
Thu 30 Aug 2018
at 21:15
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
I like that list Studynot, and thought of one to add to it.

New Feat:

Friend to the King
You have been of assistance to the guild, and have been made an honorary member.
  • Increase one ability score by 1, to a maximum of 20.
  • You gain your choice of proficiency in Thieves' Tools or partial knowledge of Thieves' Cant.  If you choose Thieves' Cant, you must make a DC 10 Intelligence check whenever you attempt to use it.  If failed, you misinterpret the information or misspeak.

Studynot
 member, 111 posts
Thu 30 Aug 2018
at 23:51
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
Nice.

One thought, if we're looking at 2nd tier characters, it is likely that we'd be lieutenants in the guild and potentially be in charge of or higher up in different sections. Unless the guild is exceptional, I don't think you'd have 5-10th level characters as your street people doing mundane stuff.

The PC would/should be the leaders and exceptional members. Perhaps vying with each other for position and such. They may have people that work for them, etc.

Not sure how in the weeds you'd want to get, but if we went that route, you could give the players a framework of how many henchmen/guildsmen they get to oversee and we could create them to build a full guild structure for you as the DM to play with.

Not sure if that part is interesting to anyone else or not...
Finlos
 member, 150 posts
Fri 31 Aug 2018
at 00:16
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
This premise sounds interesting to me.
aguy777
 member, 292 posts
 Join Date:
 Thu, 28 Nov, 2013
Fri 31 Aug 2018
at 00:29
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
Sounds interesting to me. I'm in.
DaCuseFrog
 member, 15 posts
 SW Florida
Fri 31 Aug 2018
at 00:54
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
Studynot, that's true. Maybe if I started people out at 5th level, they could be like special ops. When they get to higher 2nd tier they could be in charge of a crew, gaining XP for crew successes.
Smoot
 member, 106 posts
Fri 31 Aug 2018
at 01:16
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild

This message was deleted by the user at 01:22, Fri 31 Aug.

Smoot
 member, 107 posts
Fri 31 Aug 2018
at 01:24
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
Sounds cool.

I've read a few histories on stuff like that (Golden Age Spain, for instance, or Elizabethan England)- if that sorta thing might help, PM me?

I'll be waiting to check it out. Sounds like fun.
DaCuseFrog
 member, 16 posts
 SW Florida
Fri 31 Aug 2018
at 02:03
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
Sounds like there is plenty of interest, so I'll try to get the ball (started) rolling this weekend, and see what I can create.  But please feel free to keep leaving suggestions and requests here, as I love incorporating new ideas into my projects. :-D
Kitsunelord43
 member, 15 posts
 Loves to play a bard
 Mediocre DM
Fri 31 Aug 2018
at 04:52
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
I know that someone mentioned that different classes would be a part of divisions or subgroups of the Guild, so would certain assignments have like requirements/suggestions for certain divisions be included in the team for a better chance of success?
DaCuseFrog
 member, 18 posts
 SW Florida
Fri 31 Aug 2018
at 05:12
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
Not necessarily a requirement, but obviously certain character types would have better chances of success on specific missions.  There may be some which have requirements though.  Like if we're doing an impersonation and infiltration mission, someone skilled in disguise kit would be required.
Hendell
 member, 124 posts
Fri 31 Aug 2018
at 05:38
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
I suspect that the only full requirement for being on a team of thieves, rather than a solo operator, is a stealth bonus high enough to evade capture.
Studynot
 member, 113 posts
Fri 31 Aug 2018
at 19:59
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
Depends on how you steal!

If you’ve read the Gentleman Bastards series (and if not you should) they weren’t very stealthy, but they were all accomplished actors and disguise masters! A couple were good a impersonating nobles, one was a great merchant, etc. but all were skill and quick of wit.

Great low magic theives guild stuff in the first book.

Some stealth but that wasn’t their forte.
locojedi
 member, 162 posts
Wed 5 Sep 2018
at 07:14
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
Lankhmar would be perfect for this type of game! I believe there's a 5e supplement for it as well, though the older D&D stuff would be easy to adapt, and would have all the fluff.

Put me on your ever-growing list please!
Smoot
 member, 120 posts
Sun 7 Oct 2018
at 15:40
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
Just curious, any progress? (Please add to waiting list if necessary. :) )
DaCuseFrog
 member, 23 posts
 SW Florida
Sun 7 Oct 2018
at 16:22
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
I've made some progress yes, but it's definitely slow going.  RL has been getting in the way.  But the idea is still going forward.

For those who are interested in it, my basic character creation rules are here.  There will be other rules as well, but that's the start.  If you have any comments or questions regarding what you've seen, please PM me about them.  I don't want to bog down this forum with a rules discussion (not the place).
GreyGriffin
 member, 235 posts
 Portal Expat
 Game System Polyglot
Sun 7 Oct 2018
at 17:58
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
How does the West Marches exploration work in an urban setting?
Hendell
 member, 136 posts
Sun 7 Oct 2018
at 20:55
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
Same way as everything else in an urban setting.  Less distance, more detail.
Smoot
 member, 122 posts
Sun 7 Oct 2018
at 22:04
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
Two ways that I could see, from things I've read:

-"Friends" of Elizabethan-era robbers' gangs (not quite fancy enough to be full-on Thieves' Guilds, like in Golden-Age Spain) hung around in taverns, and listened for news of interesting targets (usually someone not being home at a particular time, or something leaving town). They'd then tell their big-man (nothing very formal, just the guy who everyone agreed was in charge- even "for now"), who'd pay them a little and then farm out the job to someone he knew.

-A lot of modern mobsters don't really care what you do for them, so long as it brings in money and doesn't make more trouble than it's worth. Your boss might not know crap about cybercrime for example, but if you cut him in on it, he leaves you alone to do it and covers you on angles you need coverage on (like, when someone tries to muscle in on it).

Both of these could sort of function like a West Marches "you only do missions you take an interest/initiative in" and "you 'finish' the adventure when you get back to 'camp'" things."
darknash
 member, 141 posts
Mon 8 Oct 2018
at 17:47
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
In reply to Smoot (msg # 7):

A Thieves World supplement was done many years ago with rules for multiple game systems. To give you an idea how long ago I think it covered AD&D 1st Edition. I saw rules for some thieves world things on drive thru rpg from Green Ronin. Kind turned off because they referred to it as a "Novel" by Lynn Abbey. Um......it was an anthology started by Robert Asprin....

Speaking of really old AD&D there was also a Lankmar supplement a long time ago.
bigbadron
 moderator, 15655 posts
 He's big, he's bad,
 but mostly he's Ron.
Mon 8 Oct 2018
at 18:05
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild
With this many posts in the thread, it should be clear whether or not there is sufficient interest in this concept to warrant creating a game based upon it.  Please leave all further discussion for that game, created by DaCuseFrog (should he decide to go ahead with it), and linked to in the post immediately following this one.

Thanks.
I miss my crayon
 member, 42 posts
Tue 9 Oct 2018
at 20:40
IC:  5e Mid-Level West Marches Thieves' Guild

This message was deleted by a moderator, as it was moot, at 20:56, Tue 09 Oct.