Phantom Mouse
 member, 52 posts
Fri 7 Dec 2018
at 15:56
Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
Savage Worlds uses a 54 card deck (all cards plus the Jokers) in order to do initiative.  This includes possible "reroll" of initiative with the proper Edge, or multiple "rolls" of initiative with another Edge.

What would be a good way to simulate this initiative method using rpol methods?
Orvallon
 member, 66 posts
Fri 7 Dec 2018
at 16:06
Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
You can select a 54 card deck on the special dice drop down in the die roller.

This message was last edited by the user at 16:07, Fri 07 Dec 2018.

Phantom Mouse
 member, 53 posts
Fri 7 Dec 2018
at 16:54
Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
Thank you.  Does it count for subsequent rolls that may be duplicates?  Or would that just be a reroll?
Orvallon
 member, 67 posts
Fri 7 Dec 2018
at 17:34
Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
Just a re-roll, I believe.
swordchucks
 member, 1522 posts
Fri 7 Dec 2018
at 17:52
Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
There isn't a great RPOL method for it, as far as I know.  You can either use the "deck roller" to get a vague approximation (which won't be quite right) or you can generate a "shuffled" deck yourself and then give out cards to the PCs when fights start.  This is probably the best method, but does require non-RPOL methods to set up and has a little bit of bookkeeping associated with it.
Mahatatain
 member, 187 posts
Fri 7 Dec 2018
at 18:06
Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
The Savage Worlds initiative system can also a pain when it comes to combat because you have a very specific action order and if you require the PCs to post in the card order then your combat turns are going to take a very long time in RL.

To speed it up you might want PCs to declare their actions without knowing the initiative order (so that players can post when they're able to rather than in initiative order) and then draw cards for initiative yourself to decide the order in which you resolve PC actions.

This comment comes from an experience I had playing a Deadlands game on RPOL where I drew 2 cards for 2 actions and they were a 2 and a 3 (if I remember correctly). I then waited for about a week in RL while the other players posted their actions before I could post mine. It made for a very slow and frustrating game.

I realise that with Savage Worlds most PCs will just draw one card for initiative but I reckon that the same issue is a potential problem on RPOL. Savage Worlds is a great game face to face but I think that you need to make some adaptions for RPOL.

I hope that helps.
horus
 member, 619 posts
 Wayfarer of the
 Western Wastes
Fri 7 Dec 2018
at 20:39
Re: Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
Full disclosure:  I have absolutely no experience with Savage Worlds.  That said, I do have some experience devising game mechanics that work, both here and across a real table.

Mahatatain:
To speed it up you might want PCs to declare their actions without knowing the initiative order (so that players can post when they're able to rather than in initiative order) and then draw cards for initiative yourself to decide the order in which you resolve PC actions.


It's also possible for each player to draw their own initiative card, post as they can, and then let the GM sort out the action in a single reply post.

Is there a requirement in Savage Worlds during initiative that all players draw from the same deck?  If so, yeah, the GM drawing for all players would be the way to go.  In that case, I'd suggest that some method of establishing a drawing order would need to be discussed and that drawing order published as part of the game rules.

In case it is useful, the dice roller link might look something like:

[dice=5d54 system=deck54 target=5 record=yes  text="Five draws from a deck of 54" memo="Five draws from a deck of 54"]

This message was last edited by the user at 21:02, Fri 07 Dec 2018.

swordchucks
 member, 1523 posts
Fri 7 Dec 2018
at 21:11
Re: Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
I take it back very slightly, you can use RPOL to generate the entire deck.  Just tell it to draw as many cards as are in the deck, and then you have the whole ordered deck.  Then when combat starts, you as the GM "deal" the cards in a per-determined order and there you go.  It'll pretty closely approximate how it works in real life.

As others have said, though, the normal challenge with initiative order tends to be resolution.  You can have the PCs post in any order or post in groups and then put their action resolution into order to make things move faster.  Sitting and waiting on a bunch of people to take turns is usually not the best for keeping a game flowing (though I have seen it work a few times).
GreyGriffin
 member, 248 posts
 Portal Expat
 Game System Polyglot
Fri 7 Dec 2018
at 21:16
Re: Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
The RPOL deck automatically creates unique draws, right?  So why not just, as the GM, draw as many cards as you have participants in the battle, just make sure you know what order you're drawing for them in.  The only problem you run into is if you're supposed to keep the cards out of the deck until they're spent - I'm not sure how Savage Worlds handles this.

One way to resolve the turn order is to have each "player" card simply act as a slot, and allow players to slot themselves in wherever they want.  So if you have 2 players and 1 monster, and you draw Player, Monster, Player, Player 1 or Player 2 could occupy either Player slot. First come first serve.
Nintaku
 member, 613 posts
Fri 7 Dec 2018
at 21:40
Re: Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
For those who aren't up on the idiosyncrasies of how Savage Worlds handles it's Action Deck (the fancy shmancy name for a deck of playing cards with Jokers left in), part of the way it works is with the probability shift as cards are drawn. You reshuffle the deck any time anyone draws a Joker, which gives special perks to whoever gets it, meaning as bad cards are removed, good cards are coming up. Or as good cards are drawn, bad cards are left for the next draw. And as soon as anyone in a round gets a Joker, it all reshuffles.

To that end, I do think it'd be best to have the GM draw a whole deck and keep that in private lines or someplace GM-screeny, then pass out cards in a predetermined order. Maybe each PC gets a card in alphabetical order, then any NPC Wild Cards, then any NPC Extra groups (in whatever order makes sense to you if there are multiple groups). If you just pass them out willy nilly, there might be suspicion that you chose the order to pass the cards out to give better cards to some people.

On top of that, I totally agree that how you choose to have players post is vital. My own recommendation comes from a combination of Savage Worlds's traditional initiative and Star Wars D6 1e's "declare, then act" initiative. Everyone declares their actions, then the GM resolves them using the initiative order. If you do something that prevents someone from taking their action, they lose it. Might make things tricky, like "I take a step out of reach" would just end someone's melee attack, but it also gets actions posted quickly.

Another option would be to simply have actions be simultaneous, so if two people shoot each other, the one with later initiative dies, the first would still take the damage. Then the only way to interrupt actions is specifically to take an "I want to interrupt his action" action. Which... sounds really confusing and maybe scratch this idea.
Mahatatain
 member, 188 posts
Sat 8 Dec 2018
at 00:36
Re: Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
One thing to remember is that part of the function of initiative is to help a GM understand which player they should be speaking to at any particular time. Essentially it's an admin function to help the game flow. That is critical in a face to face game but far less important in a message based game.

The best games I've played in on RPOL ignore initiative and just get the PCs to declare action each round with the GM writing them up in a narrative that makes sense. That certainly works in the Twilight 2000 game I'm playing in where there are bullets flying everywhere and it's often not clear who exactly is shooting at who.
Phantom Mouse
 member, 54 posts
Sat 8 Dec 2018
at 00:54
Re: Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
If you ignore initiative, what do you do about the Edges that give multiple cards or allows redrawing until they get a certain number or above?
Nintaku
 member, 615 posts
Sat 8 Dec 2018
at 01:11
Re: Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
One option would be to tell people not to take those. You get the option to set setting rules, and "these edges are not in play" are among those things you're supposed to define with each game.
Phantom Mouse
 member, 55 posts
Sat 8 Dec 2018
at 20:55
Re: Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
Would doing a d20 version of initiative work for Savage Worlds?  Mainly having them roll a 1d20 for their initiative.  This would allow for rerolls if they have the edge that allows them to reroll on a 5 or less, or to roll the dice twice and take the better one if they have that edge.

Would there be headaches involved though, as we're not exactly using the system spelled out in the books?
Mahatatain
 member, 189 posts
Sun 9 Dec 2018
at 08:55
Re: Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
Phantom Mouse:
If you ignore initiative, what do you do about the Edges that give multiple cards or allows redrawing until they get a certain number or above?

That is indeed a problem, you're right. I think that you have to ban those edges as Nintaku said, presuming that you want to ignore initiative.
DarkLightHitomi
 member, 1435 posts
Tue 11 Dec 2018
at 13:00
Re: Curious about methods for Savage World initiative
Generally, I use initiative differently. Instead of it being turns where each player acts, I instead have everyone post for the round, then I use initiative to resolve conflicts.

For example, if Eve kills Triton and Triton casts a spell, I'll roll initiative between those two to determine if Triton got the spell finished before dying.

In this way, initiative is still useful and serves a purpose yet doesn't require waiting for players to post in a specific order.