I saw something similar to this posted in another thread, but I didn't like that it was freeform.

I like the idea of starting as a Wyrmling dragon (probably copper or brass since they are Chaotic Good) but adding the Alternate Form ability to them. Maybe they have this inherit trait, or maybe they have a magic item.

I would want this to be a DM character and one player character. I would be happy to either DM, or just play and let someone else DM.

We could adventure to gain levels, but we could also "rest/sleep" for a time to let the dragons age if need be.

The dragons could both be of the same type, siblings, and/or they could be different types but not as reclusive as their elder kin. Less need to be if you have no lair and treasure.

I've never played a dragon before, or seen one played, so I thought this could be interesting.

Let me know your thoughts/comments below.

I would like to participate as a player.
This message was last edited by a moderator, as it was against the forum rules, at 16:15, Mon 19 Dec 2016.

I would also like to play as a dragon type, siblings could be fun.  The alternate form thing shouldn't be too hard to replicate either I would think.

This does sound like a fun game but it sounds like you have exceeded the interest you were looking for already :)

Ha. Not at all. I'm open to input and maybe more players.

Thoughts on playing dragons as characters? Has anyone done this?

A 10th level Fighter Dragon would gain levels as a fighter, meaning hit dice, and base attack and feats and everything, and as the dragon ages gain it's abilities.

The main issue I see is the dragon's aging. I mean, if you wanted to play to great wyrm status, it's a 1,200 year time frame.

All the NPCs we develop (unless they are elf babies at the time), even the kingdoms they encounter, will be dead and gone by the time they get to that level.

My main thought was, why do dragons just sleep on piles of treasure? Surely they have more interesting motivations beyond being a monster in a lair for adventurers. Especially the good and social dragons.

So I figured it would be fun to play. :D

In reply to byzantinex (msg # 6):

The treasure is a metaphysical channel for their inherent magic which is why the really neat prestige classes in Draconomicron require you to eat portions of said treasure.

As for playing dragons as characters my advice is this get a GM who has no life and only runs this game. You will spend weeks making an NPC to be taken out in five minutes if you are lucky. Dragons can not use the standard CR for 3.5 half or possibly quarter the CR and it is at what might be right for Dragon PCs. The threat level is so crazy high that I can not express it. I was making level 45-60 threats to be credible for level 30 dragons. Honestly use pregen gods got easier. The Draconomicron is very useful for a dragon game of any type. Has tons of appropriate feats. The Dragon Prestige classes were the only thing that made little sense there is no reason for a base save or base attack progression until I realized that those classes break the epic rule. It's dragons after all so it makes sense.

Please remember that, per the rules of this forum, characters can not be created or discussed in this thread.

Also, the only person who can GM this game is the OP, byzantinex.

I was thinking of good dragons who aren't just out to raze the world around them, but explore it. Treating them more like adventurers than dragons.

They would probably spend a lot of time in a humanoid alternate form, especially interacting with the lesser races.

Do you still think the DM would have to have no life generating NPCs? :D

I'm thinking something more along the lines of the Ilnezhara and Tazmikella the Copper Dragon sisters who spent so much time with Jarlaxle.

This message was deleted by a moderator, as it was against the ToU, at 15:27, Mon 19 Dec 2016.

In my experience yeah. I tried it at a table and it was insane. 2nd Edition Council of Wyrms was massively easier. You don't factor ECL or anything else. You modify the base age template. So much simpler.

Now as for treating them as adventurers you still run the problem of credible threats. Why are they delving into that ruin? Ok now why are they not beating that monster up that is obviously guarding the treasure and is trying to kill them?

My games were never about burning the world. One took place about a decade before The Last Rage of Dragons. They were trying to prevent it or that was the plan. It got to be to much work. Even with weeks and months sometimes between boss encounters. You don't understand yet, but you will see the same issue I promise. I was warned of the same thing and I said yeah sure.

Not impossible to do, but it will eat time by the bucketful. You have to tailor make each boss to not have a giant hole to exploit. No glass cannons are possible. I promise I am not exaggerating this at all. Players of all kinds are devious. Dragons have tons of things at their disposal and the more weapons that they gain the more you will wind up paying in time. That is why I am doing a similar game in a rules lite setup.

I might be willing to help run a game, but not with less than two other GMs. And I would need a PC. So it wasn't just make characters and plots and waste time and seem like a chore. I stress the might. This is not pessimism. This is real experience in doing this ending badly. I limited the age to young adult by the way. Also Dragons of Eberron has some useful feats. Specifically the Alternate Form Feat which allows you to gain the alternate form ability of the Silver Dragon. Also a couple of feats to modify the Alternate Form ability and useful thoughts on running around as humanoids while being Dragons in reality.

To be clear I love the idea, but you have to be real careful and it will take up a ton of time. Restrict is your best friend. Keep it super simple on allowed books and it might be better. I don't know. PHB, Draconomicron, and maybe one or two others. Yeah that kinda sucks, but it would be better than the alternative.

If you want help running I will help, but I won't take over if things happen. It would be your vision and your game.

You could go the half-dragon route...

In reply to Knight_Vassal (msg # 11):

Gotcha. I saw you post in a similar thread.

I don't like the idea of totally free form because I like having some rule system in place for managing things. I do think use of just the PHB and Draconomicon would be fine.

Your past experience, did it include starting as a Wrymling, basically a newborn dragon with very few abilities and hit dice?

I mean a Wyrmling has a size of Tiny, around 30 hit points, with a base attack of +4 and it's breath weapon is only 1d6 for the beginning.

Obviously this is more powerful than the average first level character, but it's still not crazy powerful.

I mean it's size is Tiny to start off with! haha. :D
This message was last edited by a moderator, as it was against the forum rules, at 18:56, Mon 19 Dec 2016.

In reply to byzantinex (msg # 13):

Keep in mind a wyrmling is not a 1st level character, it's a 7th level one (assuming black dragon), even down to a 5th level one (white dragon), both of whom are outclassed almost completely by a character of the same level.

Barring some creative leaps, you're really not getting beyond juvenille age category before epic levels.

In reply to RosstoFalstaff (msg # 14):

Right. I agree. They are kind of weak as babies (as we all are).

I was thinking it would be interesting for a pair of them (or more) to start out traveling together just seeing the world and adventuring a little bit.

They could then "sleep" to jump an age category if necessary.

Just some thoughts. That's why I'm brainstorming here :D

In reply to RosstoFalstaff (msg # 14):

The game has closed. Years ago in fact. That being said the Level Equivalents that Wizards can up with for dragons are broken. I don't use those. Mine are a bit more accurate. Besides the point however. We could try Wyrmlings and at that level they are all pretty much the same. A couple of class levels to give you some teeth and it might work. The main problem that you run into is mentality. Wyrmlings are basically toddlers. I could probably help run an older dragon game with not such an infant mentality. Young adult is basically teens early twenties. Mentality factors into the game. I mean we could hand wave that, but it would seem forced to me. Again my thoughts.

Right. They are kind of child like I guess. I guess they technically are babies.

Jumping them to Young is significant as they start with 85 hit points average, have a +10 base attack, and 3d6 breath weapon.

The "hand wave" might be that these are more intelligent or wise wyrmlings. They are dragons after all. :D

I just don't want to start out totally overpowered.

In reply to byzantinex (msg # 17):

Which is where the problem comes in. We could say that their parents gave them to the Dragon gods and the gods imparted memories to them. Sort of matured them mentality wise in the eggs. That would mark them out as different obviously. Which is whe they adventure? I don't know. I'm brainstorming at this point. If you want to set up the game and we can chat there probably be better. Seems we have enough people interested to do this with three or four dragons. Again just saying.

I created this game, can everyone see this? link to another game