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23:21, 23rd April 2024 (GMT+0)

6 Knuckle BRAINSTORMING.

Posted by MittensFor group 0
Mittens
GM, 185 posts
Thu 11 Jul 2013
at 19:03
  • msg #1

6 Knuckle

http://www.enworld.org/forum/s...-End-Character-Death

quote:
For me, I like my games where death is a major obstacle or a penalizing experience. The higher the stakes (such as tournament play) the better. The reason from my perspective is that table-top rpgs is about risk vs. reward. If you eliminate risk in the GM playstyle or put narrative control in the players' hands, then you no longer have an rpg, but you're playing a codified version of Make Believe. For some players who are playing in a campaign from 1st to X level, keeping their character alive or with minimal penalty to come back from the dead, there's incentive to mitigate the risk and to be focused on the story. However, I consider spending two - three years of play time in a campaign in which my character is going to ultimately make it to the End Game, beat the BBEG, and retire filthy stinking rich, to be boring. Even if they die at times along the way, unless it's a major penalty to come back from the dead, my character is still going to have the other PC's bail them out or the GM will take pity on the character and provide a "way out" which ultimately doesn't provide any challenge to me (as a player).

I know that other players will disagree and that's fine. The ultimate goal is really having fun in your own game. This is just my personal preference when it comes to character death.


quote:
Yes, its quite a sweeping essay.

You could spend some time on your CoC character, and (earlier) WHFRP has very interesting chardev options. And then there is GURPS or Champion/Hero, where you could spend more time making a character then playing one.

Back to D&D. The mechanics of character death didn't really change from 1E to 3E. In some ways, 3E is deadlier. And 3E seemed to coincide with a push to let the dice fall as they may, making it potentially very deadly.

But Treebore is right, a DM could always run a harsh game, or a more forgiving one, and all sorts in between. Largely independent of mechanics.

But lets set aside things like complexity (tangentially related), story (somewhat related), and balance (less related then you might think).

Lets look at 4E. 4E was designed to take out any fudging by making characters very robust. What happened? An arms race. Even in the first module, some super tough encounters that could lead to a TPK. All sorts of house rules, and eventually an official escalation of monster capabilities, especially damage.

Gamers wanted the deadly back.

People like to pretend to risk death. Thats why it permeates drama, and not just action-adventure. Its a core part of the RPG experience: risking death without actually dying yourself.

You don't have that, you have just got candy-land.


Thoughts on player controlled risk:  "How likely do you want it to be your character dies?  In a random encounter?  In a boss fight?  Do you want to be able to resurrect?  Do you want resurrection sickness?  How much of a setback do you want character death to be?"

MOST games, death is only a slight inconvenience that'll only set you back a few minutes worth of play effort.  You respawn at the last save point.  Oldschool Sonic didn't have save points so you had to beat the whole game in 1 go without losing all your extra lives.  Some gamers would rather that style than one with any save points.  The trick is making them happy in the same team as gamers who want their char to have plot armor.  David getting upset over losing 10hp comes to mind.  Could be he was worried about losing his char for good in spite of all our assurances.  Or he was afraid of his char looking less than invincible.  One thought I had was starting chars get 100hp, monsters get 10hp and deal no more than 10 damage...  Players can then invest HP like chargen points into things like (slight) extra damage.  This way you put the player in control of how hard it is to kill his char.  If he wants a glass cannon, he could invest 99hp and end up with 1hp.  Any monster can kill him in 1 hit.

Also, the "full withdraw" action in pathfinder is a great idea.  Most games allow you to run away if things get hairy.  Recently in FFXIV Kitau attacked a lvl 3 elite.  After drinking a healing potion it was clear she wasn't going to survive the fight.  Activate sprint and escape!  No death!  And even if she did die, worst that happens is a slight setback.

Player controlled randomness:  If players like the gamble aspect of gaming, they roll d20.  If they want a less random game, d6+7.  And possibly have players choose how random the monster rolls are too.

For example.  All monsters have a set attack value (no dice) and damage value.  The player then rolls his defense against the static value.  Like trying to beat a DC target.  If the player makes the save, it's only 1/2 damage.  Or no damage if they have the "takes no damage from this kind of save" feat.  Could streamline combat a great deal.  DM only has to worry about monster movement and targeting.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:24, Thu 11 July 2013.
Mittens
GM, 194 posts
Fri 27 Sep 2013
at 14:11
  • msg #2

Re: 6 Knuckle

Turns tend to become 1 of a number of things:
1) Standard Success.  "Monster takes damaage"
2) Notable Success. "Monster takes damage, is now bloodied." also  Critical Success.  "Monster takes massive damage."
3) Finishing move.  "Monster is defeated."
4) Critical finish.  Fatality.
5) Standard fail. Whiff
6) Critical fail.  Drop sword.

What if these were cards players had in their hands and they could choose when to play them.  What order they play the cards in determines the narrative flow.  Advantages / disadvantages to playing their cards in certain order.  Some cards cannot be played except at certain times.  I.E. the finishing move can't be used on the boss unless there are at least 3 standard and 1 notable successes on the boss.
Mittens
GM, 306 posts
Sat 19 Dec 2015
at 03:32
  • msg #3

Re: 6 Knuckle

Champs swap role on the fly.

Cards!  No more JDs and Critfaces.

Forget the 2d?  Or combine the 2d with cards.

Defensive powers used on player's defense phase.

Knockback / down as cinematic indicators of damage.  Bloody lip/nose as serious damage.  Sliced clothes when up against swordsman.  Cheek cut for serious injury.

Hits lower defenses so fights snowball to get easier.

Variable defenses give GM more control over fudged results.
Mittens
GM, 307 posts
Mon 21 Dec 2015
at 02:58
  • msg #4

Re: 6 Knuckle

1) inspired by d6.  everyone starts out with 10 damage points.  you can allocate those toward hp, attack, damage, etc.  is player's choice if they want to be tanky or damage-y
2) teamwork feats.

the only way damage and accuracy improves is by leveling, and that improves for everyone.
Mittens
GM, 322 posts
Wed 1 Jun 2016
at 05:07
  • msg #5

Re: 6 Knuckle

6 knuckle.  handing out 2d of skill dice to players in specific plot-realted skills.   like gale training her team in bluff while she learns martial arts and computer interface.
didn't miss the crit die.  what if crit were a feat?  d6 good for being easy to learn.  don't like that 1 person can screw things up for rest of team.  rolling really high on attack roll should mean you can choose to NOT kill your enemy.  goons go down in 1 hit.
Mittens
GM, 324 posts
Sun 17 Jul 2016
at 01:23
  • msg #6

Re: 6 Knuckle

Cards to represent 2d6 results.  Chunky Salsa card.  "GM adds 10 to the pot"

Roll 7 three times in a row = jackpot.

What is the most tactical card game?

Whenever player does stuff, must spend chips.  At end of fight, everyone gets what's in the pot.  Roll 12, put 12 in.  (or rounded increments.  )

Rage quit card.  Enemy flees.

PWN stamp card.  Roflcopter card.

Get 6,6, and another 6.  Apocolypse.  Double Jackpot.

Attacks cause you to build energy.  Unlocks stronger attacks.  1st round: tier 1 attacks.  2nd round, tier 2.  etc.
Mittens
GM, 326 posts
Wed 20 Jul 2016
at 09:11
  • msg #7

Re: 6 Knuckle

HP always an even #.  Damage always even #.  Eliminate 1/2 the math.  Brainstorm classes / builds:  Sword 'n board.  Cross class abilities cost 2x or so or if you don't meet pre-reqs.  Heavy armor costs 100 points.  -20 to cost if you have CON 15.  -20 for STR 15.  -20 if you have Medium armor prof.  -20 if you are fighter class.  Hard coded pre-reqs?  "Must be a physical creature to have heavy armor prof."  Prolly house rule.  Story telling system vs. story MAKING system.  Pick a path.  Memorize spells the limited rescource is spell slots and spell book.
Mittens
GM, 327 posts
Sun 24 Jul 2016
at 00:34
  • msg #8

Re: 6 Knuckle

HP = Luck points.  Or better yet, LP = force field.  Getting hit in a light saber duel = death or dismemberment.  Flagging for PvP.  Everyone draws the line somewhere.  When character disagreement arises, Time out and go to OOC.  Make sure its not PLAYER disagreement.  Remember, alignment is an arbitrary label.  If it can't be resolved, coin flip.  The player who wins will lose the next coinflip.  "Resolved" includes consenting to a fight.  other players will be vulnerable to attack if they intervene.  It is signing the waiver.  the waiver is consenting to possible character death.  In the event of player refusing to sign, and insisting on suicidal action, either A: it was a dream sequence and all progress is lost past the point of no return, or B: time for a new story.  TPK story.  Use HTML.  Collapsable stuff watch the LotR movies for ideas on turning cinema into RP.  Double 6's = roll on crit table.  100= super badass card.  Dealing with Deaus Ex.  (Back to PvP.  Flavor damage.  Like, black eye or fat lip.)
Mittens
GM, 329 posts
Mon 25 Jul 2016
at 05:52
  • msg #9

Re: 6 Knuckle

LaserFace (GM): Also, since there can a lot of skills in a game, I'd say in monster listings focus on either stuff they are actually trained in, or are relevant to their mechanics
That boss can make hide checks as a bonus action, so knowing at a glance stealth matters. for example
Chris F. (GM): hmm. that does touch on an important topic.
topic being: plot trumping PC abilities.
i'll give a recent example.
tim wanted to swap out May for Rai in Dave's "Return to Glory" story.
Premise is, gods have been demoted to being as powerful as normal people. But some terrible even in future requires heroes to return the gods to their former power in order to keep world from blowing up or w/e.
Tim OOC: "Well I'm in a team with min-max masters like Dan. So I KNOW i won't be able to build Rai to keep up with their mega damage.
Chris F. (GM): "Which is not fun. So I'm going to go for Combat Maneuver mastery.
He then builds a non-damage focused badass Rai that can grapple, pin, then completely subdue enemies in the course of a round or 2.
We go up against some shade guarding one of the former god's weapon. The damage dealers do their massive damage thing. He answers "most impressive" and retaliates. Rai's turn comes up, and by the rules, rolled well enough to completely beat this guy.
but gm gives a "well shoot" look and says, "you know i can't make it THAT easy. this is supposed to be this chapter's final boss."
LaserFace (GM): well, you know my views on the matter. I can understand the need at times to keep the game from falling apart, particularly with a module.
But it is best to be up front in the matter. Rather than all the bending over backwards defensivness at how it's in no way the GM being 'unfair' because-
Chris F. (GM): "So as a full-round action, he turns insubstantial and 5-foot steps out of your reach."
it was a relatively fair way to handle not allow anti-climactic boss fight.
'cause basically she wound up making boss useless on his turn.
for rest of fight, the only damage he "dealt" was from his fire aura.
and i kinda agree there.
far worse to try and justify it when the truth is simply, "well i didn't expect this to be too easy for you"
aserFace (GM): or that you simply just don't like a mechanic.
Then again, some people actually honestly think they are in the right when they say "But paid for imminuty to poison isn't fair to people with disadvantage:poison on their attacks! because they the attacks are useless!"
but that's as much likely a part of them trying to justify it to themselves <.<
Chris F. (GM): oh yeah. i had in mind to ask you to actually recall these crazy "terrible RP moments" in as much detail as you could for the sake of 6-knuckle game system PHB.
like those side-bars in all the other game books i've seen.
LaserFace (GM): hah
Chris F. (GM): "want to know WHY we absolutely INSIST upon GMs following (insert rule here)? Here's why..."
LaserFace (GM): less "follow the rules" more "Don't selectively act like you are following the rules to look good"
Chris F. (GM): right
LaserFace (GM): "Rules are guidelines.
You can ignore the rules if you like.
But telling your players "Oh, look up X rule" only to tell them "Oh, we don't DO that in this game, actually" for the tenth time just tricks them into thinking you ARE trying to use the rules"
"Before you can be honest with your players about your GM handwaves, you have to be honest with yourself about it"
Chris F. (GM): so tru
LaserFace (GM): "I always follow the dice!"
"Oh my god the dice made them lose. I hate stated NPCs!"
LaserFace (GM): it kinda kills your cred for "letting" the party beat off boba phett, if you hate that it was even possible
 granted, in byron's defense, i'll tell another story about players being disappointed that i didn't break the rules enough.
LaserFace (GM): I know it probably really DID legit coincidence crash, but the murphy timing is just spectacular
Chris F. (GM): ikr
LaserFace (GM): yeah, despite all my stories, it's not Rules Vs No Rules that's the actual problem itself.
it's how often people will selectivly wave ruls in your face, ACT like they are following the rules, then throw them out and still act like they are being impartial when it suits them
because they value light side jedi
"breaking your own bans list is fine, as long as you can somehow act like you are in the right and look good doing it!"
Chris F. (GM): so in the godmaker game, i had the group go up against evil barbarian druid dude who'd killed the whole village of one of the PCs (as part of her backstory.) supposed to be an iconic clash. signifigant fight. so i over-statted his minions and majorly over-statted him. like, gave him x5 HP or something. they ripped through the minions in a couple rounds. so big bad steps out slow clapping and swears to show them "true power" and transforms into a chimera manticore thing.
 Vengeful PC teleports next to him, turns invis, and ganks him for nearly 700 damage in 1 turn. He had like 500HP or so after i'd amped him up.
LaserFace (GM): I take it they still fell over like a greeting card convention in a wind tunnel
Chris F. (GM): lol
LaserFace (GM): but yeah, tuning things just right is one of the hardest things ever. Especially with a wide variety of player capacity
Chris F. (GM): so at end of game, players were all... "epic slaughtertastic stab there and all.... but i was hoping for more from such an important boss fight."
LaserFace (GM): You can't balance around people busting out all their A+ toys, but that can mean when they do, things swing wildly in the other direction if it works
Mittens
GM, 330 posts
Mon 25 Jul 2016
at 06:56
  • msg #10

Re: 6 Knuckle

Tim F. (GM): That is still tying skills to attributes. Or did you mean... you can tie any skill to any attribute?
"My orc took lessons, but he's stupid. However, he is incredibly enduring. So I'm actually tying his diplomacy skill to his constitution."
Chris F. (GM): would make me, and a lot of people brain break if someone were all, "i'm good at diplomacy because i can juggle chainsaws."
Tim F. (GM): "To reflect that he kept taking lessons until he got it through his thick skull"
Chris F. (GM): heh
Tim F. (GM): Which is why most people wouldn't do it except disruptive players / trolls
Which would troll anyway
There is no troll-proofing, just getting that out now
Chris F. (GM): heh tru
Tim F. (GM): Byron keeps insisting "If you give me a good enough reason"
And I'm in the same boat
Chris F. (GM): i usually hate hearing that
LaserFace (GM): yeah, selective GMs are selective
Chris F. (GM): in my mind, that's code for, "put in a lot of effort to create an awesome, rational backstory, only for me to say 'no' anyway because I don't like it."
Tim F. (GM): The above example of diplomacy with chainsaws falls under when May used athletics in SoW for diplomacy, saying "Besides. Look what I can do" and did one-arm, hand-stand pushups
LaserFace (GM): "you look like a grey alien with shark teeth and glowing red eyes? the minimum 5 points, people know about aliens in this setting""
girl off to the side gets 5 points for blue hair
Chris F. (GM): "because ewoks didn't exist before empire strikes back."
Tim F. (GM): Well yes. A GM would do that anyway, regardless of rules
LaserFace (GM): and yes, that is generally what that is code for <.<
sadly a a majority of any rules we come up with will have "But GMs could also just be fail GMs"
 if it's a lose freeform rule, or a hard coded rule, can't get past that
Tim F. (GM): The rules in Saga and pretty much any SW game give stats for ewoks, but ewoks get hated on regardless of them being a mechanically legal race. So mechanics doesn't matter there
LaserFace (GM): remember, that eyeless species is EXTINCT in my setting, to the point you thought that was standard!
Chris F. (GM): just using that as added evidence of not believing when i'm told "give me a good enough reason and i'll allow it"
Tim F. (GM): GMs fall under the same category as the trolls mentioned above. No mechanic can GM-proof the game system
I brought it up more as a prerequisite for the May example
It worked, it made sense at the time, etc
Yes most people would brain-break at "juggling chainsaws = diplomacy", but get creative enough and you can make anything work. And players can be really creative
Chris F. (GM): heh. situationally. i can't imagine that same trick working on an eladrin queen.
Tim F. (GM): Which is why May is quiet around Quelenna
May's not stupid. She's observant.
Chris F. (GM): hmm
ok so we're basically winding up with Fate's system
where the char's basic consept can be applied to specific skills if the player can justify it in that case
Tim F. (GM): Fate had a lot of really good stuff. Our system is meant to weed out the good from the bad from any system and put together the good parts while tossing (or refining) the bad parts
So yes
I LOVE that particular concept
Chris F. (GM): ok. let's go with that.
Tim F. (GM): Like you, I don't care for how they wind up rolling it or how the skills are. Aunt May can be Superman and Superman can be Aunt May. Both at the whim of dice in any given round
Mittens
GM, 331 posts
Mon 25 Jul 2016
at 06:59
  • msg #11

Re: 6 Knuckle

 But the concept of "who I am dictates how I play this game" really blew my mind with awe
Chris F. (GM): i'd like the game to be less a whiff system, and more of a "dice determine just how MUCH you succeed" with some important exceptions...
Tim F. (GM): Oh! I thought on that the other day and figured on this:
Chris F. (GM): one of the "aunt may can be superman" examples i keep turning back to is: zombie troglodite, because he critted his diplomacy, convinces human princess to fall in love with him.
i do not want that to ever happen due to game mechanics.
only if gm and players alike are all, "that would be insanely fun!"
Tim F. (GM): You know how frustrating it can be to roll a 19, and not count as a crit? Or how you roll an 18 and feel like it should somehow count for something a little more? Well I think the to-hit should be the damage. We talked about this and basically, in Champions, there was no to-hit. Only damage or more damage.
LaserFace (GM): that's an action game with lots of self heals and near instant between fight full heals though
Chris F. (GM): between-fight healing back to full HP i think is a given
Tim F. (GM): Yes. But the problem with not-action games having to-hit is missing and spending the next hour waiting for your turn to come up again while your last turn did nothing
LaserFace (GM): action games with huge health bar numbers also feel better when you still get hit despite "dodging" compared to tabletop though
Chris F. (GM): and then whiffing again
Tim F. (GM): In an MMO, a to-hit is fine because if you miss, you wait a whopping 1 second to do your "turn" again
Chris F. (GM): "action games with huge health bar numbers also feel better when you still get hit despite "dodging" compared to tabletop though "
LaserFace (GM): While Fighting Purples is no fun, if a PC can never actually avoid taking damage beyond "They attacked someone else"....
Chris F. (GM): i'm trying to translate this
tim says it means, "joe hates ever taking damage"
LaserFace (GM): okay, Ninja Mc Ninjapants has 5,000 hitpoints.
Every time he "dodges' machinegun fire it's tickling him for single didgit damage, but it's a fast paced fight he will be done with even solo in less than a minute.
Ninja Mc Ninjapants is in a tabletop game.
Every time something attacks him, he takes damage.
Tim F. (GM): To continue: What Chris and I came to the conclusion of was that since player preferences vary so wildly, we would basically say "Player option, the monster can either automatically hit, or has to roll a to-hit." in other words, players get defenses. Monsters don't.
Chris F. (GM): oh yeah. important bit that.
pcs get more options than monsters.
for example. pcs can have access to "lose your turn" powers against monsters. monsters are not allowed to make players lose a turn
Tim F. (GM): Yes. Stun exists, but only in the player arsenal
So to clarify, auto-hit is what players get to begin with, but monsters have to roll to hit the player characters
Chris F. (GM): and also, "hit" doesn't always mean actual physical damge
obi-wan and vader get in a duel.
if either of them actually hit, death or dismemberment.
but if one were to rp out round 1: both miss. round 2: both miss. ... round 10: obi-wan finally decides to throw the fight because this is getting boring.
instead, in the game mechanic, a "hit" is simply a question of how determining how much closer your character is to defeat
ppl even make fun of the HP > 0 = ok to keep fighting. critical existence failure if ever HP < 1
LaserFace (GM): yeah of all my own meta perma dodge, I have this funny habit of not taking hits that would permanently cripple me or kill me <.<
Which funny enough was why Zahenshmin threw bricks rather than shoot bullets a lot of the time... if not for my tendency to have my actions overlooked
Chris F. (GM): so we'll be replacing HP for something like Luck Points or Closeness to Defeat Points or w/e
LaserFace (GM): funny enough hitpoints ARE supposed to represent "taking glancing hits and such luck" as much as direct how much blood is in your body
thatis' why it's Hit points, not health points
Chris F. (GM): yup
LaserFace (GM): but mentality, yeah
"if we call it power level we'd get sued!"
Chris F. (GM): but critical existence failure is still something to mock because people conceptualize an action hero full of bullet holes, burn wounds, glass-shredded flesh, and so on.
because of how much the enemy "hit"
LaserFace (GM): yeah, I mean it's clear what you are trying to make leants on the Action Hero side of things, rather than "damage is realistic and you will explode into gore if you take too much at once!"
Chris F. (GM): i'm thinking that 6 knuckle will leave it up to the player how they want to describe a "hit"
GM: "your character takes 10 points of damage" Player: "Ninja mcDodgeFace once again dodges the attack, but this one came close enough to slice his sleeve! It's clear he's up against a worthy opponent that is pushing his skills to the limit." GM: "nice!"
LaserFace (GM): "I dodge entirely, but I still suck with these nunchucks owmyface"
Chris F. (GM): lol
i'm really wanting to divorce weapon of choice from damage.
this ties into what i was thinking for how to handle pvp
eli and mittens get into a duel. because mits was posessed by a devil or w/e
.... bad example
reboot. new example. druid who's in bear form wants to eat defeated baddie
Tim F. (GM): heh
Chris F. (GM): rest of group sharply disagrees with this. can't talk him out of it so the'll have to use force. but the only non-lethal weapons available are d3 fists. so bear eats npc before they can stop him
if they'd been able to use the full power of their characters, bear would have been defeated in 1 round.
LaserFace (GM): "It's not realistic for bear attacks to knock people out! Now, magical ghost bears on fire? Totally works"
Chris F. (GM): in 4e, it's great that lethal weapons can be used to make non-lethal attacks without penalty, but flavor wise, they'd still be seen as attacking with lethal weapons.
which is why i want to divorce damage from weapon of choice
a barbarian that does d12+4 damage will do d12+4 damge. regardless of weapon used.
the characters won't know anything about die codes
LaserFace (GM): gives token complaints about rayguns because it's a gun.
Dives in front of mundane throwing knife thrown at invulnerable gang member.
yeah I know aaalll about "judging by dice type"
though that's not quite what you are talking about, yeah.
Chris F. (GM): :)
LaserFace (GM): but yes I am totally okay with "Barbarian doesn't have to worry about if it's an axe or a sword or a club or his Bear Barbarian Bear Hands"
Chris F. (GM): :)
LaserFace (GM): as ever that stuff gets more complicated with anyone slinging effects stuff and ranged things
Mittens
GM, 332 posts
Sun 4 Sep 2016
at 02:26
  • msg #12

Re: 6 Knuckle

Nonstop knight mobile game as inspiration for 6 knuckle.  Very simple, but very addictive.

How to prevent people being considered a liability to the team in spite of not having the best stuff:  Minimum power for character builds.  Even with player AFK, the char practically plays itself.  But more interaction from player means more effectiveness.
Mittens
GM, 333 posts
Wed 14 Sep 2016
at 04:48
  • msg #13

Re: 6 Knuckle

High stakes poker vs poker game for bottle caps.  One is too stressful, the other too boring.

Poker chip idea:  Daily power is 25 points, blue chip.  Encounter is 10 points.  red chip.  At-will 1 point.  white chip.  When you use one, it goes into the pot.  at end of encounter, everyone gets the pot's worth XP.  So that means that regardless of whether the fight ends 1 round after you drop a long-lasting daily, you still get a huge tangible reward for using it.

Feat idea:  If your HP is 2 or more, any damage more than your current total you take will leave you with 1 HP.
This message was last edited by the GM at 05:58, Wed 14 Sept 2016.
Joe
Sun 16 Oct 2016
at 07:15
  • msg #14

Re: 6 Knuckle

if more GMS ever just outright told me 'Because I don't like it'. so much less headache for all involved.

aka Do not use "realism" or "immersion" as excuses for what is included or excluded.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:05, Mon 17 Oct 2016.
Mittens
GM, 343 posts
Sun 6 Nov 2016
at 02:57
  • msg #15

Re: 6 Knuckle

Roll 3d6+d1+5.  What if crit ignored DR?  Can take-10... no chance to crit, but no chance to miss.

Descriptors like, "glancing" direct" critical" "devastating" "crippling" what about called shots?

Cyber limbs that immeditely graft to lost body parts, or mana jars that restore flesh.  No real advantage of magic over tech.  But they war anyway.  Every weapon has a corresponding defense.  Time tech/magic to undo damage.  Cheaper to restore than replace.  Cheaper to attack than defend.  All boils down to money.

Campeign settings are galaxys, systems, universes.  Dual flavor for all "items."  Only in lowest magitech settings is physical storage an issue.

Need generic money system.  "Dollars" "Crowns" "Knuckles..."  Build your own setting.  Start on home world dominated by alliance of evil aliens.  Go from underground resistance to planetary heroes.  Then local neighborhood, then free galaxy, only to finde the galactic villains were small fries compared to the universal villains.

Basic freebie item property: Mine and mine alone.

God powers = aliens?  Or actual divine spirits.  Up to the player!

Magic can remain mysterious.  But the mechanical result same as tech.  They can interact.  How else do you explain Ghostbusters?  The universe's factions' power levels follow the fibinacci sequence.  Or orders of magnitude.

damage multiplier = level.  example, level 1...  (d6+6)x1.  lvl 2, x2, and so on.

Monster ranks follow fibinachi power progression.  1,2,3,4,8,13.  A team of PCs should have 50 50 chance of defeat vs challenge = their combined level x2?  I.E., level 5 team can take CR 10 half the time?  Makes lvl 1 teams squishy, though.  Maybe make it x6 in keeping with 6 knuckle.  will have to re-imagine level structure.
Mittens
GM, 344 posts
Tue 8 Nov 2016
at 03:32
  • msg #16

Re: 6 Knuckle

There are 14x10^32 milllion million stars in the known universe, each with the potential for being home to civiliazations with science far beyond that of Earth's.  Alien beings so fundamentally different from our own that humanity would be generations searching out their wonders.  And that's just the known universe.  What about our universe's neighbor?  Or the universe that lives down the block?  If we were to fly around the neighborhood that our universe is in, just how many universes would we find that are bigger, and more fantastic than our own.  Having laws of physics that allow for things like bullet-proof heroes who can shoot lasers out of their eyes, or vampire cyborgs who wield powerful ancient magics.


Warning to players: if your local Walmart greeter couldn't do that at level 1, neither can your character.  If you can't imagine any of your team-mates being able to do the same, you're probably trying something beyond your level.
Mittens
GM, 345 posts
Tue 15 Nov 2016
at 05:32
  • msg #17

Re: 6 Knuckle

GM decision dice.  Plot deck.  Playing without a GM.  Optional success system ala World of Darkness.  GBU: replace this with the awards ceremony.  Leave off Bads for most GMs.  Why not freeform RP?  Controlled escalation.  PCs start and remain equal in power.  HP + ATK + MP = 100 total for every PC.  Costs MP to do stuff like attack or heal or taunt.  Masterminds, bards, and other buffers... how do they fit in?  Or Sneaky-stabby vs sneaky-shooty.  Multiclassing: van buy any feat or power from any class, but the ones that are aligned with your class are discounted.  Go thru powers and figure their relative value.  Lvl cap?  Level = current + last.  3,5,8...  because at lvl 100, +1 level is pittance.

Action progression:  Leut fight, Leut fight, boss fight.  Repeat.  then, L,L, Tier boss.  Like a ruler.
Mittens
GM, 348 posts
Mon 2 Jan 2017
at 08:19
  • msg #18

Re: 6 Knuckle

no disadvantages. even if they aren't mechanical.

Language is never a problem

 magic will never get more goodies in 6 knuckle than martial.

You have "At-Will" which is all the time, any turn. Then you have "Often" powers, which you can use then have to wait 2 turns to use again. Then "Encounter" which is your big guns. I forget if it was Chris or Will, but someone mentioned hating dailies.
Mittens
GM, 357 posts
Sun 29 Oct 2017
at 07:24
  • msg #19

Re: 6 Knuckle

Not in the doc yet:

HP is an abstraction of "a buffer between your enemy's attacks, and critical existence failure."  (I.E. that point where you no longer are allowed to play.)  All attack buffs, heals, damage buffs, disabling strikes, etc. are essentially just different ways of pushing your opponent closer to C.E.F. while trying to stay as far away from C.E.F. one's self.  This is true in MMOs, pokemon, etc.  looots of games.  The more variety there are in roles, (for example, WHM verses Scholar verses Astrologian) the more complicated the different ways of dealing with the C.E.F. tug-of-war.  4e became pretty cumbersome with the stacking penalties and bonuses buffs/debuffs, variable durations, etc.  5e simplified the wide variety of buffs / debuffs and turned a lot of them into simply advantage, disadvantage.  Buuut then there's bless.  And bardic buff.  Which add a small die buff (rather than a flat buff) to attacks.  Is adding more die better than flat bonuses?  Is a pool of die that allow buff as-needed better? such as with 5e bard?  Pathfinder bard's +1 all the time seems to get forgotten a lot.  Action points also seem to get forgotten a lot.
Mittens
GM, 358 posts
Mon 30 Oct 2017
at 02:08
  • msg #20

Re: 6 Knuckle

4e's model was a good one.  A couple strong powers you could use any time, some you could use once a fight, and some less often than that.  But it can get cumbersome when magic items, high level, etc all give the player so many per-turn options that they can begin to forget some of their many situational powers.  Or take forever per turn re-learning their character.  (let alone after having been away from the game for a week).

pokemon was the other extreme.  soon as you gain a new power, have to forget an old one.  a painful process, but sure kept the per-turn decision making to a minimum.  (granted, with a full team of pokemon, that's a lot of moves.  but only so many options per pokemon helped.  and most of those moves were no-brainers.  "why use peck when i could use pulverize?")

so perhaps emulate pokemon without necessarily limiting it to just 3 powers.  instead of separate pokemon with separate powers, have separate stances that have their own array of powers.

Defender stance:  minor action.  unlocks the provoke power, the drain hp attack, etc..
Slayer stance: minor action.  unlocks the quarry power, the double-attack, etc...
Healer stance: minor action.  unlocks the Grant THP power, the debuff power, etc.

the minor action emulates how it costs time to swap out pokemon.
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