Well Swift hasn't concealed anything :)
Ok, actually she's concealing lots of things, but nothing about the mission...  Maybe!  At least I think not...  Ok, perhaps she is!

If Ferret is concealing anything, it's probably because it's something he found out eight months or more ago and his player has forgotten about it! :)

[It may be worth noting that with his pen & paper RP group, FF's player forgets nearly everything, from, as a player, his characters' abilities (currently the party cleric, keeps forgetting that healing is only a minor action in 4th Ed, nearly caused TPW the other week) and their equipment ('Oh, I'm using a magic weapon, aren't I? I've not been adding the bonuses on....') to, as GM, NPCs that are present ('Kanna? Oh, yes, he's still with you. He just, er, hasn't actually said or done anything of note for the last four days....') and what actually happened in the previous session (but luckily has one player with a very good memory to bring him up to speed). So if ever you're wondering whether or not you ought to prod FF to remind him about something, you probably should! :) ]

Lol, have you tried using the DnD 4th Edition Character Builder program? It lays out all your character info all nicely for you, with all the calculations done for your attack rolls and damage for each of your Powers and with all weapons/implements that can be used for that Power. Whenever I play 4th, I use the Char Builder to make my character, then print out a blank character sheet and copy the details from the screen (sinceit's easier to rub out pencil and change it when I level up than to keep printing out a new sheet every time, plus things like losing hp in combat can be tracked a bit more easily if I don't have a permanent inked version getting in the way ;)). I do print out the Power cards, though, since I know I'll just forget to add on some kind of damage bonus or whatever from somewhere.
I can usually keep track of details if they're not hugely complicated and if the game keep moving at enough of a pace that I don't start to forget stuff. Starting a new game in an unfamiliar setting (such as this one, Lone Wolf) is normally quite terrible for me, especially if a lot of knowledge of the canon is required (eg character names, locations, etc - I had the same problem with the 40k universe when I first played Dark Heresy), because then I have a whole load of other info to try and learn on top of whatever storyline the GM has come up with.

What dusk Rat never saw when she DM'd me in 4th edition was that I had a cheat sheet with a couple of ability thingies, because even with the power cards, etc, there are still edge case abilities thjat I kept forgetting!


and as to Sun Snake concealing stuff - given the amount of stuff he comes clean about and spouts off about, is it possible for him to conceal anything? :D

Uh-oh, Sylon just broke to warn you guys of monsters in the forest...


YOU NOW HAVE TO GO IN THERE! YOUR NEXT DISCIPLINE ISN'T GOING TO LEVEL ITSELF YOU KNOW!

hmm, to go off and get attacked by monsters or to agree to be the prisoner of some megalomaniac...
Decisions, decisions :)

:) He did just asked them to do the opposite though...

That would mean using a computer. Granted I'm using one now, but....


However, some of that does sound handy. Always been put off the computerised character sheets because of the reprinting thing, but what you say about copying it down in pencil makes so much sense that I really should have thought of it. Although I do - with much help - have everything written down, including all my character powers copied longhand on to the back of the character sheet. (I don't have the 4th Ed books. Yes, character creation takes me aaaaages and requires much assistance. :) ) And I still forget stuff. But cheers for the tips. I'm running the next game in 3.5, but next time I'm being GMed with a new 4th Ed character, I'll have to give that a try - it might actually help, and would save all the longhand!


Yes, the assumed knowledge in this one is substantial, because of the political element - I think you're brave diving into it, but your OOC comments aside, I wouldn't know you weren't familiar with playing a Kai and with the setting. Really with Lone Wolf it is only the specialist groups that are a little unusual (the Kai, the Brotherhood, the Vakeros, etc.), because it's a world mostly of kingdoms that work in a fairly typical historical European sense - nothing particularly outlandish. Nearly all the games I GM are in made up settings (that's made-up-but-actually-mostly-ripping-off-my-favourite-bits-of-this-that-and-the-other), which there's no way the players can be familiar with, but you just introduce a little at a time (out of necessity, since I'm making it up a bit at a time!) and because it's all fairly generic stuff really, it's quite easy to get on with. No idea about 40K, but Warhammer's Old World is quite easy to get on with for the same reasons, so long as the game doesn't assume your character has great worldly knowledge.

Yeah, having a computerised character builder is useful, if only so you don't accidentally miss any extra bonuses to your attacks or resists or whatever. There's another free prog you can get called HeroLab which is the same kind of thing, but covers more systems (stuff like WoD and Savage Worlds is on there I think), though you can only get full access to one of them for free (your choice which), then have to pay for any others.

For the official DnD builder, you can download it...actually, wait, you can't any more. You used to be able to (and I have the install file - if you want I can send it to you), but now it's online-only on the website so you need a subscription to be able to access it. However, what you could do is get the installer for the offline version (unavailable on the site now I think, but as I said I have it, not sure of file size) and then subscribe for just one month (costs about eight quid I think) so you can download the patch (ie full version plus any updates) for it. They don't update that version any more but all that's been added since, I expect, are more bits from any new books that have come out since they stopped patching it. You can also then download the offline version of the Monster Builder. Then cancel your subscription (or just don't renew it when the month is up). And voila, permanent free access to the Char Builder from that point on :).

Also, I have access to PDFs of the rule books for about a zillion RPGs - not just well-known ones like DnD 3rd/3.5/4th or the Warhammer 40k games, but slightly more obscure stuff like Red Dwarf, Monsters and Other Childish Things, and Mouse Guard :). If you want a PDF for any RPG rulebook, let me know and I'll see what I can do :).

On the subject of character world knowledge...yeah, it's best, I find, if your character isn't already supposed to have any world knowledge 'cause they you can learn as they do if you're not familiar with the setting. If it's a new/made-up setting, or one with a really wide range of possibilities you can put into it (eg Red Dwarf, Hollow Earth Ecxpedition, etc), then as you say, you can just introduce stuff a bit at a time and everyone learns all at once. It's just games like this where there's a zillion names to learn from Day One and all these locations and political structures and stuff like that, and your character is supposed to at least know some of it, then I get confused ;). While we're blundering around in the forest and staying away from any major convolutions in the plot (ie we're just concerning ourselves with surviving and finding weird shit), it's much easier 'cause I don't have to think stuff like "Argh, now who is this guy and what relation is he to that other person we met, and should I recognise that name and who the hell is that and..." etc ;).

The character builder also lets you see the various powers and cycle through them pretty quickly and in order of at-will, encounter, etc - I found it pretty fast to build up a character using it.

Some people complained about 4th edition being more computer and game-y than RP, yet the powers, etc build up well to be a very narrative base for the character I found. With the character builder lay out rather than the book, so much faster to spot the narrative link in some of the powers to build up a fighting style or augment a temperament.

Yeah, I can whip up a character in just a few minutes on there now. As Wuffy says, it's really easy to switch Powers about to see which one you like best when making your choices each level, since it gives you a breakdown of how your attack/damage rolls are calculated based on your equipment and stuff, instantly on the screen without your having to work anything out :). Also, it saves having a huge pile of about eight books to look through when it's all visible on the screen in front of you :).

It does sound good for 4th Ed. Thank you for the offer of the DnD Builder - I'll have to have a look at the site and see whether a brief subscription is worth it (I suspect not). And also for the PDF offer, though I have D&D 3rd Ed and WHFRP, which are the only things I'm likely to GM any time soon. My group does play a fair bit of 4th Ed, but I just let someone help me through it rules-wise, 'cause I find the books unreadable. As a system it undoubtedly works, and I have fun as a player in a 4th Ed game, but I don't actually like the the system or the way it's presented at all, so I let others do the rules leg work. :)

I understand why Dusk Rat is so much happier interacting with animals than humans - animals are pretty much the same in any setting; it's the human world that's specific and harder to get to grips with. :) Yes, this is definitely about the most challenging type of Lone Wolf game you could have had for your first go!

She's doing pretty well so far, though! :)

And really, you all didn't knew much more than her - other than being aware who Banedon is and what the Bortherhood of the Crystal Star is, the rest is just as new for you as is for Dusk Rat, isn't it? The Maakengorge team is involved in a mission that has a lot more ties to the actual Lone Wolf book's plot and story than your Toran mission does, so overall you had it easy! ^_^
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:06, Sat 29 Sept 2012.

I find that if you don't know a lot about a particular setting, you can still turn it into a form of character development by creating a character who also doesn't know much about the world.
Maybe they never had any education, lived on the streets or something.  Or maybe they just never paid attention when they were supposed to be learning that stuff.  Even the mighty Grand Master of the Kai, Lone Wolf himself was supposed to have been a bit of a slacker in his initiate days ;)
In that situation you can always have your character asking the others about things that you're not sure of.  Like: "We're going to Toran?  Where is that?  What's it like there?"
That way you're learning about the world as your character does.  So your IC and OOC knowledge get quite well synchronised :)

Just a thought.
Swift would probably be happy to answer questions like that, if you catch her in a good mood.
(She does have good moods occasionally, they're just hard to spot!)

Ah yes, but Dusk Rat should know stuff liek who the hell all the other important Kai are, shouldn't she? ;) After all, she's spent quite a few years in the same building as them. And I think she got sent out missions or something during her training as well. And I would've thought she'd also know all the names of the Disciplines and what they do without having to run off and look them up ;). This is why I don't make talky characters in settings I'm not familiar with - otherwise they might be expected to know stuff and ask/tell people about it. If I make a character who doesn't like to talk, I'll hopefully never run into the problem of needing my character to explain something that I haven't got a clue about ;). Hopefully I can put off returning to Toran for as long as possible so I don't have to worry about trying to remember all these guilds and important people and what they're up to and stuff ;).

Frosty - Which part of the DnD 4th rules do you have trouble understanding? Maybe I can explain some of it to you, or something. The general consensus on 4th Edition is that it's really simple to understand and do stuff with (the main complaint from people who don't like it is that it's too simplified). I've played a lot of 4th Edition so maybe I can give you a hand if there's some aspect of it that you're having trouble with?

On the subject of the Character Builder, in order to use the current, up-to-date version, it's online-only and you need a subscription to access it, ie you must be paying money every month in order ot use it. With the old one you can get away with just paying once in order to patch it from the demo version to the full version. I don't think the demo version is available for download any more, but as I mentioned, I have it so I can send it to you if it'll fit in an e-mail (or if you have Skype, maybe I can transfer it to you over there).

Dusk Rat, I created the important Kai for the game as well - none of them (except of course Lone Wolf) is a canon character. And both those and the disciplines are listed in their own thread for you to check - so you're not as far behing your fellow players as you think. :)

I think the point is that we know the basics of everything, instead of having to look up the information for everything :)

Even the difference between a Kai Lord and Kai Master and the fact Kai Lord is interchangeable is weird :)

Well you know you can ask in the OOC if there's something you think your character should know.
I'm much less snappy than Swift is when I'm in the OOC frame of mind ;)

With thanks for the thought, it isn't not understanding the rules, it's just not liking the system. I've not bought the books and I don't like reading them when they're lent to me, so I do the lazy thing and let someone else work it out. My levelling up process is basically being told what numbers I need to change at that particular level and being presented with a selection of powers and feats that the GM thinks will appeal most. To be honest, a lot of my character is done for me aside from who he is as a person. But then it feels to me as though 4th Ed narrows everything down to X or Y choices anyway, which I don't find interesting enough to invest the time in reading the book (the style of which I don't like anyway). It's not an in-depth thing with me and 4th Ed. :)


I thought Skype was something to do with webcams? Clearly there's more to it! But I don't have it.

Yeah, with my overwhelming enthusiasm for 4th Ed, I don't think I fancy paying to read about it. :)

Certainly the classes are more streamlined to be mechanically playable, but feats and powers still allow for crafting quite a good narrative.

For example I played a Barbarian under Ameena, who started to become a little less selfish and more a head of the small group he found himself with, so when he levellled up to second level I could take a feat that let him have diplomacy as a skill and also have a single inspiring word, plus I took a utility power that was inspiring fortitude - he granted temp hp to those around him once a day.

Both mapped well to someone who was slowly being more of a figurehead, and could inspire those around him if he only stayed with them.


And yes, he did still charge ahead on occasion when it was the worst thing to do :D

Heh, Skype doesn't require a webcam, no, any more than MSN Messenger does. It's just another of those "live chat" progs whre you can have voice chat/webcam chat if you want to, and transfer files, share screens and stuff like that. And it's free and stuff too of course :).

Don't most games narrow your options down to a small(ish) number of choices? You still have a defined selection of skills to choose from, or whatever. DnD 4th is the same, just a bit more simple, I suppose - for example, everyone has the same skill list, but certain classes start the game trained in certain skills. Later on, you can take "Skill Training" as a Feat and increase any other skill of your choice, if you want to. In the Char Builder, when it comes to choosing Powers, only ones that you can train at that level are visible (though you can show all other Powers, including those for other classes which you can't take, if for some reason you want to do that ;)). You just click on one and it gives you a break-down on the right-hand side of the screen, telling you what the effect of the power is (mechanically as well as a brief fluff description) and what you'd be rolling (attack and damage) with whatever weapon you currently have equipped (or default, unarmed stats if you have no weapon, which you won't if you're creating the char for the first time since if you follow it through in order, sorting out your gear is after the Powers bit, though you can do stuff in a different order if you want to). So in other words, it shows the Power card for that Power, but with stats specific to your weapon (and anything else, such as whether you'd get Sneak Attack damage on a Rogue or Hunter's Quarry on a Ranger).

I suppose 4th Edition isn't great if you want to customise your own system, since all the proper attacks are done as these Powers. Games like WoD are more popular if you want to design your own game/setting. I think DnD 3.5 has been used for such things as well. But I like DnD 4th 'cause it's simple enough for me to get my head around without zillions of numbers getting in the way ;). Yes, I suppose in some ways it is too simple, but I think I'd actually prefer that than sitting there going "Whu...?" and not enjoying the game because of all the rules getting in the way ;).

Heh, don't log in for a few days and you guys go crazy! I love it! I'll try to catch up this evening. . .

O.O Did you jinxed the game, Shark? That's no posts in three days... I'm a bit scared here!

Jokes aside, in case it wasn't clear, in the Investigating thread I'm waiting for Ferret to decide on the sword, and in the Deathstaff thread I'm waiting for Rain's next post. I do am around, though. :)

I sorry :-(

I just got another three grants dumped on my plate. . . so I shall remain slow. But that shouldn't slow others down! :-(

:) I was just joking, Shark - it's just that, you said "so many posts", and then nothing for two day... it was a fun thing for me to point out, that's all! ^_^