I tend to write a lot, besides playing in RPGs... I guess I have a question in response to the question.

I had someone tell me that if what you're writing (or playing for that matter), doesn't reflect God in a positive light (or at all), that you shouldn't be writing it (or doing it).

It sounds like a good theory, but what if that is the only place that you feel inspired to write about? (or play in).

Good points so far. I understand the issue about D+D, and it's original issues.

I grew up on D+D, and left it when I became a christian.

I ask these questions, because there is certainly confusion for some, and myself as well. How can D+D be bad, but Lord of the Rings be good?

Some possible responses would be is what the glory is going to.

So for example, while D+D may not be evil, you playing it to learn more about magic, or demons, or ....etc could obviously be bad. It becomes the use that makes it bad.

No different than if you took any normal substance, idea, or book, and used it poorly.

Example, a book is not bad, but a book on learning how to be a witch would be bad for you to read. Books aren't evil, but the purpose could be made evil.


My first response to Heartbreaker, is just because you find inspiration in something, does not mean it is ok. I don't know what type of things you get into, so no way to really respond with anything definite.

Now as to the theory of something for God, or just neutral for God, it would be simple to say, anything that does not bring you closer to God is really in a sense a waste of time. We all likely waste some time however. (obviously, since we are continuly typing posts, and playing on the computer.)

Doing something for God, is much much easier to say that is good. Our waste of time should be limited, agreed? (or should we find more things to waste time with?)

I think this should be something approached carefully, for certain.

God encourages us to test our faith.  Part of that, I believe, is breaking it down.  Writing for yourself about your difficulties with God can be helpful for addressing those problems.  That's constructive criticism of your own faith, and it's healthy.  The alternative is to simply put everything you don't understand or don't agree with in a dark corner where it'll haunt you forever.  You do need to bring that out into the light and address it.

As for writing in public...  (Which includes playing games with people) you need to be more careful.  After all, I wouldn't appreciate it if someone took a game and portrayed me poorly, or untruthfully.  It would be disrespectful and even damaging.  I don't think it's unfair to extend that same respect to God.

So if you just think 'it sure would be neat if God hated *insert group here* and randomly smote them for fun' and decided to run a game about that, I think that would be a bad thing.  If you thought 'it sure would be neat if a god (not any one in particular) did this bad stuff' and ran based on that, I guess that would be okay.

Heartbreaker, could you give us some more details?

Rogue, I agree with you 100%.

Details: I have a fantasy story that I've been working on for a number of years. It's carried a character (her name is Jaarwyn. She's 3/4 drow, and 1/4 demon, thanks to her parentage) through many different trials, torture, and things. Though the torture was not a main theme... it only covered maybe three typed pages of over 100 in total.

I was discussing the story with a friend. He told me that since the story doesn't reflect God at all, then I shouldn't be writing it.

I don't use actual spells or anything, it's simply a story that I've consistently been able to write in. If a moment comes when the character has to use a spell, I'll merely put "mutters a few words" and leave it at that.

I've enjoyed writing this story, and I don't like the idea of just throwing it in the recycle bin. (Maybe it's a pride thing??)

I think your friend has a pretty narrow idea of what 'reflects God'.  Certainly, it could be a book of 'God is great, yay God!' or it could be something that reflects the human condition, and in that pays homage to God's work.

I don't think saying your story is rubbish is valid unless you accept that the works of Shakespeare are rubbish, or Moby Dick or most other great literature you care to name.

(Just curious, is he upset just because it involves negative things?  There are plenty of stories that do literally praise God and are still very dark.)

No. Not any more than a regular story would have. It's got it's plots and twists, and like a said, the torture scene. But the drow society has it's own form of gods/goddesses that they worship. I believe the goddess is called Lilth, or something like that. But the character is one who has shunned the way of the drow because of how they treated her mother. (long story, in the story :P )

Every well written story has negative points in it, I believe. But mine doesn't dwell on it.

I draw limits too, I don't play characters that are evil and rarely play divine spell casters.

I certainly don't see a story where you're turning away from gods other than God as bad.  Even the bible has that.  I think your friend is just being a little overzealous (then again, I haven't seen the story myself, so I could be missing something).

I think the answer to this is really pretty simple:

If your writing makes bad things look good and good things look bad, then don't write it.

Having bad in a story is part of conflict and necessary, but don't make it look good.  Don't dress up extramarital sex, drug use, violence, and immorality as fun things that everyone does and that are "good."



Regarding D&D, Dragon Magazine finally responded to the allegations and back in the 80's published a very good article that basically debunks the MADD nonsense.  Funny thing, when a mother brought a case against TSR for her son's suicide, the judge said, after "reviewing" the evidence, that D&D seemed to be not only not the cause of his suicide, but that the game in itself promotes creative thinking, intelligent thought, and should be used as a learning tool in schools.

I grew up on D&D and am a Christian (in part) because of it.  I got saved at Fellowship Bible Baptist Church thanks to a friend I met through playing D&D.

I am involved in two D&D games right now here at RPOL and have several more behind me.  In one I play a demon-blooded human "serving" a wizard who follows the evil goddess Shar.  True to evil, my character plans to betray the wizard and sacrifice him to his own evil god.  My character is actually a parody (parody is not the right word but it will do) of the pagan Aztecs, exemplifying the worst aspects.

In the other game I am a lawful good dwarf cleric.  He exemplifies Christian virtues like mercy, compassion, and justice.  He fights evil, aids good, defends the innocent, and encourages others to do the same.

D&D is whatever you make of it.

I agree with Benedict here. A good character is a complete and independent person. I disagree with the moral values of all of my characters to one extent or another. They're not me. I'm not them. An ideal player doesn't decide how his character acts in a given situation, he simply interprets how the character would react to the situation.

Then the argument becomes, is it alright to do anything that is not you? Example, roleplay a game meant to roleplay sacrifices to demons? How about a game meant to be sexual with a non spouse?

How a more gray area, if a game should not be sexual graphically, is it ok to have a game that is not graphic but touch on behavior that is not christian? Example, what if all characters are fornicators. The details are they go to the bedroom, and nothing else is said, even though they are doing the actions implied of sex.

At some point, where does it go against, or where does it not matter.

Another way to think about it, if reading a book on how to worship demons should be clear that is not to be done, why would it be ok to roleplaya game that glorifies evil?

Don't get me wrong, all of us have done what we "like" doing, but know it wrong. So what definition, or what line is drawn?

I draw the line at whatever point the player is acting upon out of character desire. If a player roleplays as a rapist, that's fine. If a player roleplays as a rapist for the purpose of being sexually aroused is not.

It is no different than an actor in a play. You're reading the caharcter's lines (and writing them, too) but you are not the character. The lines are not reflecting you, merely your view on the character.

Exactly.

The point at which it becomes wrong is the point at which it becomes scandalous or a near-occasion to sin.

None of my characters have been promiscuous or in any way sexually active during a roleplay and I do not continue to roleplay with those whose characters are blatantly so.  One character, the demon-blood, has an incestuous rape in his backstory but that is where it stays.

I don't want to seem there is only one issue that is the problem.

For example, sure sexuality in gaming is pretty clear wrong for most, if not all men.  But does that mean a game with realistic witchcraft is ok to emulate as being on the side of good?

I am not sure how you were playing but the most realistic witchcraft in my D&D is "I cast Magic Missile on the darkness."

My old D&D group had a druid in it.  His sister, who also played, but not with us, was a witch.  You never heard such complaints about how many things were wrong.

I'm showing some examples. It doesn't mean D+D is the problem. I am pointing issues in RPGing. There have been references that it is ok to include bad elements as part of the story.

Tracy Hickman (who most of you recall as author of Dragonlance but who also was a pioneer in the early TSR days and is an active LDS church member) once was speaking at a seminar and one lady raised her hand and asked about all the D&D and magic and how evil it is.  His response was that the magic in D&D is like the magic in Disney, the "bibbety-bobbety-boo."  It was not satanic in nature but was purely literary and part of a fun game system, although of course people could twist it and turn it into whatever they wanted...but they can do that with anything.

Exactly. It's not real. Sure you're character is going against the teachings of God, but the character doesn't exist.

It's just like PKing. Sure there are players who get pissed off at you if your character kills his character. But they aren't worth roleplaying with.

Oh yes they are.  Player-killing is absolutely forbidden in my gaming group.

I agree with Benedict.  Roleplaying, even though it is fantasy, must draw limits...namely, moral ones.

Roleplaying is fun, and not bad, so long as you keep it that way.  You can make it bad, depending on what you do in game... Adult games, namely.
As for multiple gods, it is a game, and I think that as long as it stays in the realm of another world, whatever theology you have in that world is fine.
Like Star Wars... there is no god in Star Wars.  Is that bad?  No!  Because Star Wars is fantasy.  Fantasy is basically a "what if," not a "this is."

So what if you take the game too far, and start killing rats in sewers IRL?  This is bad.  However, that makes RPing bad only as much as fat people make food bad.

edit: removed redundancy
This message was last edited by the player at 21:18, Sat 28 May 2005.

I heard somewhere that in england there are more people who claim to be Jedi than anglican

Like this guy maybe?

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/i...tarwarskidclones.wmv

The one thing I might mention at this point, is that I don't believe they say there isn't any God. They just don't dwell on it. I'd say from mention in books, they do have various religions in the "expanded universe" No mention as to how those religions work. If you read some of the newer books, the Force takes on a whole new aspect. The Force is changed in perspective, neither bad nor good. Balance is sought and anyone can use what was formerly the dark side, but now they are able to use it based on their actions. I'm likely not explaining the impact that well, but the over al ideas are very new age. The star wars movies are very new agish to begin with, but the books take it to an all new level.

Yes it is fantasy, but they mix in other elements that are subtle. Is it with intent? Perhaps, perhaps not.

As a christian, another perspective is added. Just as a child is unaware of the world, so is one who is without truth. While a christian believes they know truth, one who has never seen truth can be confused by the various lies out there.

My concern is by saying fantasy is ok as long as it is fantasy, that may be lost among the other lies.