<digression>
First off, rogue, the Star Wars movies are not "new age"-ish at all. While they have some overlap with New Age philosophies, they very clearly draw on Japanese and Chinese Buddhism. A few things to tip you off: Light and Dark sides of the force, this easily equates itself to good and bad karma, found in buddhism while having no parallel in New Age religions; the Jedi fighting style is based on kenjutsu, to which Zen is essential; Lucas drew elements of A New Hope from Akira Kurosawa's Hidden Fortress; A New Hope came out in 1977, the New Age movement was mostly in the 1980's. Add all this together and, while you can never be certain, you can be pretty sure Lucas was drawing off of Buddhism.

I apologize for the digression, but especially with the connotations involved, I don't particularly like having my religion confused with New Age.
</digression>

Back on to the topic....

rogue, so what if someone draws their belifs from a fantasy world, hm? If you're right and they're wrong what does it matter what they think that's wrong? What they believe is irrelevant if it's not true. Wrong is wrong, so where's the harm in fantasy?

It could distract you from things that are real and important.  It could influence you to make life decisions base on falsehoods.  It could affect your ability to distinguish reality from fantasy.  There are many reasons, but the most important thing is to just keep it all in perspective.

Sounds like we should make a thread on movies, and the basis of the religious views ;)

If you think buddism is there, it's likely because their are elements of it. I would certainly look more into it, and touch on why I feel there is new age beliefs mixed in. The books (which are made in the 90's and 2000's) do go into more detail, as I have said. The interesting part with Lucas, is that he retains full rights on all merchandise, and off shoots from star wars, and he remains full vreator control. Meaniong he approves all Star Wars ideas. So the books, while not buy Lucas, must be okayed by him.

Heath answered this well. I'll add, if wrong is wrong, then someone, such as myself saying it is good, may come to the conclusion that wrong is now right.

Again, as long as fantasy and fiction stay fantasy and fiction, I think they are okay, and often enjoyable.

I tend to agree with Elfear.  Look at The Lord of the Rings/MiddleEarth books.  They speak of magic and alternate creation myths, and they are the work of a theologian, and accepted in many Christian circles, as are the Chronicles of Narnia.

Not going to join the Jedi religion anytime soon, then? ;)



Basicly, I don't see why everyone gives a hoo ha. It's roleplaying for a reason. You're taking on a new role, you're not actually being that person. I mean yeah there's stuff wrong wth roleplaying child molestation, but jsut wars and stuff...I mean, the crusades were danged bloody, far worse than most stuff in RPGs-as was Jesus's death.

I think the question is, when does roleplaying something bad encourage you to actually engage in it?  Roleplaying wars and battle are generally okay, because it's not really a temptation.  It's simply not physically possible for us to go on a physical crusade (at least not realistically).  Child molestation is a different matter.  But the problem arises when, as Rogue pointed out, you draw on roleplaying to make more simple ethical decisions.  Anakin drew on this that and the other to decide something is good or bad, so I can too sort of thing.

Sounds to me like everyone has about the same point of view.

And about the Jedi religion, no, I'm not going to join it ever, but I am a major fan of Star Wars.  The original trilogy, at least, was three of the best movies of all time.

There's no problem in drawing philosophies form characters. One quote I find incredibly meaningful is "Nothing good can ever come from staying around normal people." It's from an anime (Outlaw Star). However, I consider it a good moral because I see wisdom in it, not because it's a quote from Outlaw Star. In fact, it's completely taken out of context.

Oman, oman, oman... if we're going into philosophies from television, anime, and the like... whoo boy!

Trigun -- overall Buddhist philosophy; no one ever has the right to take the life of another -- LOVE AND PEACE!

Star Wars -- draws from general pagan mythology, most notably druidism (imo). I say that because in Star Wars there's the philosophy that there's a light side and a dark side to everything.

Real Life -- what's that one famous physics quote? For every action there's an equal and opposite reaction? Eh heh. Too true, even outside of physics. We just may not see the reactions immediately.

Mage: the Awakening (from oWoD) -- Every time you use magic you're basically taking something that's not yours, at least with Wishcrafters (the type of Mage I'm most familiar with).

Full Metal Alchemist -- see the Mage reference, but replace magic with alchemy.

Lord of the Rings - Roman Catholic theology
Homecoming Saga - Book of Mormon
Tales of Alvin Maker - Joseph Smith story
Tales of Narnia - Christian values
Madeline L'Engle's works - Christian philosophy

etc.,etc.

NoFish, I think you sort of hit on it...  Half way.  The point is, we can have characters we *LOVE*.  Obi Wan is a 'good' character.  Supposedly, if we emulate him, we'll be good people too.  Maybe he says things that you think are cool and pick up on.  Whatever.

The point is, if you take stuff from the media, you need to check it against what you already know is safe.  For example, as a Christian, I'd take your quote and compare it to what I already know.  For instance, the bible says things about not hanging out with wicked people, but being around good people.  I suppose hanging around people who are normal as opposed to good (people who are actively trying to be better) really isn't a good thing.

That's just a rough example, of course.  But I'd hate to see someone start emulating say Obi-Wan, thinking he's a great guy.  Sure, the character was pretty good, but he was rife with flaws, and his character was written to make money, not to be a paragon of moral behavior.

The other thing you have to be careful of is media that actively ties in messages, portraying them as fact when they're not.  With RPGs that's not much of a problem; we KNOW they're fake.  But with movies or books, that might not be the case.

For example, there's a new movie coming out, Kingdom of Heaven, which supposedly shows the crusades in the middle of the 12th century.  However, the information is very false, and anyone devout to their religion on either side is cast as a violent zealot, someone bent on killing and nothing else.  If I went in and saw it and didn't know it is pretty much completely fabricated, I might come out thinking 'boy, anyone who really holds to his religion is violent and dangerous, as evidenced in these actual historical events!'  Of course, this statement would be false.  And even if I knew the events were fake, the movie might be moving enough that I take to the message anyhow.

That's the problem that arises, is when we let ourselves be exposed to bad messages without questioning them (heck, sometimes even if you do question them, the damage is already done, seeds are planted).  The more mature (not older, more mature) the person is, the more I'd trust him or her to be able to deal with a wider range of media.

I saw a review of SW III that was pretty negative...
It talked about when Anakin was looking for advice, and how he was soooo ill-advised, ie, patience by Obi-Wan and "detachment" by Yoda.
I thought "good heavens!"
Obi-Wan and Yoda gave about the best advice possible, especially under the circumstances.  Had Anakin listened to their advice, he wouldn't have turned evil.  Even the best advice doesn't do anything for you if you don't take it.
Also, what Yoda advised was not detachment.  He advised that Anakin should train himself to let go should the need arise.  Not to detach himself.  Being able to let go is good.  Yoda knew that had Anakin not been able to let go, his temper would have brought about very dire things.
First, had Anakin listened to Obi-Wan's advice, he would have stayed with Padme, and could have helped her through the time of trouble, even if only by simple being there.  No, he had to betray the Jedi Order in order to have a chance to learn a power that might not even have existed, and became that which he had sworn to destroy.  How Stupid, capital 's'.
So, had he followed the advice from either of the people he had been willing to ask for advice, he never would have ended up in that situation, and his wife would still have a chance to live.

Again, I've gone on and on...but my point is, some "wisdom" from fiction is really not wisdom at all, but other "wisdom" can be applied to real life.  Things like patience.  Patience is always good.

That's a good point, elfear.  You can learn something from just about anything.  But the question is how do you test it's value?  How do you KNOW what you learned is a good lesson?  In general, I'm not anxious to take lessons away from Star Wars.  It wasn't made to do that.  It was made to make money.  But maybe I'd take lessons from Lord of the Rings or Ender's Game, or Chronicles of Narnia, since those do have a moral background to them.  Regardless, I'd always test what I learned.

ENDER'S GAME!  HAHA!
I've finally found another Ender fan!
I can't wait until the movie comes out...OSC is involved with it, so it should rock!

I enjoyed it, but haven't gotten to read any of the sequels.  My cousin LOVED the series, and went to a book signing.  The author said he (my cousin) reminded him (the author) of how he (the author) imagined Endor would be.

Woah, woah, woah, back up! They're making an Ender's Game movie? How friggin cool is that? ^_^

Part of me hopes they stop with the first book, part of me hopes they include Bean's story to an extent, part of me hopes they'll continue the series a little -- the immediately-post-Bug War part, not the far-into-the-future Bug Restoration part -- and the rest of me just hopes they do a good job of displaying the military and tactics involved in the children's minds! Hehe!

Anyway, to get this kinda back on track...

There is no emotion; there is peace.
There is no ignorance; there is knowledge.
There is no passion; there is serenity.
There is no death; there is the Force.

When I heard this the first time (I was only maybe 7 or 8 at the time -- and to place my age for you guys, I was born the same year RotJ hit the theaters the first time) I liked the sound of it, and took it to heart -- maybe a little more than I should have, but that and a passage from Dune--

I will not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will allow it to pass over me and through me. When it has gone past me I will turn to see fear's path. Where the ear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.

--have carried me through more than a few rough spots in my life. Test any philosophy you might potentially start to use is paramount, not just with stuff people in the modern day make up (such as the two I quoted) but also with the philosophies of Neitzsche and Darwin and Aquianas, because everyone's outlook on life is different because of the various experiences we've all had.

Coupla' comments.  I'm also an Ender's Game fan...and yes the movie is being made.  Here's a link:  http://www.frescopictures.com/...dersgame_update.html

Also, I saw Kingdom of Heaven.  My opinion was that the Christians were made to look like either cowards who said "It is God's will" whenever they wanted to run away scared, or like warmongering zealots with nothing but murder on their mind.  The same was true with the Muslims.

The theme of the movie seemed to be nebulous, more about God cares about people and not religion (as shown through Orlando Bloom), but of course when they put it against the contrast of war-crazy zealots, it seems pretty obvious that religion was just the facade anyway.  I was a bit disappointed, but it wasn't as terrible as some movies...

Is it wrong to roleplay God?  Or a god?

Good question. I am going to say that if you represent God unfairly, or inaccurately, that would be bad.

I think it is wrong to play the part of God. And to play the part of a "god" because, to me, it's wrong. As they are not real, and God says we should not have "other gods".

I disagree.  That discusses worship.  By playing God, hopefully you are trying to emulate him...as Rogue suggests...so long, of course, that it remains in the realm of fantasy.  Also, it may be termed a "god," but in most cases is simply a being of creation, not worship.

See, for example:  link to a message in "A Serious Waste of Time"

I'd say roleplaying God, given my many and serious limitations, would come off as cheap, maybe even disrespectful, but not morally wrong (as long as there's no actual worship involved.  If a player says "I worship God", that's different from actually worshipping you.)

What about Peter Molyneux's Black and White?

Haven't played it.  It looked really funny.  However, truth be told, I doubt you'd come away thinking you're really GOD God.  After all, you are limited in what you can do, right?  And there's plenty of space between God and us to have supernatural god-like creatures in the middle (just don't start worshipping them :P)

But I'd have to know more about the game to put any substantial comments on it.