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19:19, 1st May 2024 (GMT+0)

when orthodox just isn't enough:  Ultra-orthodoxy!

Posted by TychoFor group 0
Tycho
GM, 3461 posts
Fri 14 Oct 2011
at 09:54
  • msg #1

when orthodox just isn't enough:  Ultra-orthodoxy!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-15239538

The above is an article in the BBC I saw the other day that I thought might interest people.  It's about ultra-orthodox Jews in Israel opposing the dress of 6-to-12 year old girls at a religious school in Israel.  Apparently some of the men are throwing things and yelling slurs at the children as they walk to school, though two people interviewed said the issue really isn't about the children, but about control of the town.  Apparently, the ultra-orthodox feel the non-ultra-orthodox school was put their to keep them from expanding further into town.

Lots if issues in this that I think people might comment on:
-What do you think about grown men throwing things at school girls?
-What do you think about religious groups that demand everyone else adopt their standards?  There's a lot of backlash against women wearing Burkas in the west these days, with many viewing it as form of oppression of women.  Are these ultra-orthodox men telling women how to dress trying to oppress women?
-According to the article, many ultra-orthodox men are on welfare, preferring religious study to employment.  What do people think of this?  Pious people above the day-to-day issues of secular life, or free loaders living off the work of others who may not agree with them?  (note, it's not mentioned in the article, but if I'm not mistaken, ultra-orthodox Jews are exempt from mandatory military duty in Israel as well).
Tycho
GM, 3526 posts
Mon 23 Jan 2012
at 19:05
  • msg #2

Re: when orthodox just isn't enough:  Ultra-orthodoxy!

I've been reading a number of articles lately about problems in israel related to clashes between ultra-orthodox jews and the more mainstream jews.  In particular, there seems to be growing conflicts over women's rights (rights to expose their elbows, rights to ride on a bus with men, rights to walk on the same side of the street as men, etc.).  The picture I'm getting from the articles is that for a long time most Israelis just got along with them, and viewed them as a slightly odd minority.  But due to high birth rates, they're actually becoming a very large and influential minority (I think the figure I read was that 20% of kids in schools now are from ultra-orthodox families), and it's leading to a lot more strain on the general population.  I was hoping if Elana spots this, that she might give us her take on things?
RubySlippers
player, 8 posts
Mon 23 Jan 2012
at 19:50
  • msg #3

Re: when orthodox just isn't enough:  Ultra-orthodoxy!

-What do you think about grown men throwing things at school girls?

The words childish, immature and cowardly come to mind.

-What do you think about religious groups that demand everyone else adopt their standards?  There's a lot of backlash against women wearing Burkas in the west these days, with many viewing it as form of oppression of women.  Are these ultra-orthodox men telling women how to dress trying to oppress women?

I though Israel was a secular nation and there are many non-religious Jews there even atheists and humanists as well as other faiths. My view on the Burka is its a personal issue for use in the home or place of worship but can pose security issues. As for these men yes they are oppressing women and taking an extreme view to do it.

-According to the article, many ultra-orthodox men are on welfare, preferring religious study to employment.  What do people think of this?  Pious people above the day-to-day issues of secular life, or free loaders living off the work of others who may not agree with them?  (note, it's not mentioned in the article, but if I'm not mistaken, ultra-orthodox Jews are exempt from mandatory military duty in Israel as well).

If one can work and doesn't at a job to support themselves and their families they are not following their faith even in the OT priests were supported by the community, doing work that was religious services mandated under the laws. And got to keep a tenth of what was given as their portion for the work. But if the rest of the nation is supporting them and they do nothing to make money, hell I'm disabled and am self-employed not taking handouts, it makes them lazy and beggars. In the Psalms work is told to be a virtue and if one cannot work being really unable to then its charity. I would cut them off if they keep this up.
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