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Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture.

Posted by SciencemileFor group 0
Sciencemile
GM, 1721 posts
Opinion is the default
for most everything I say
Tue 11 Dec 2012
at 11:47
  • msg #1

Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

I've been engaging myself in a lot of media that involves, either directly or indirectly, the Latter Day Saint movement, whether this be the current mainstream LDS, Minority Denominations and Historical Events, and also Speculative Fictions.

There is a wide abundance of material that varies in both the portrayal as well as the intended audience it is for.

So far, at least as far as I know, I have yet to watch a piece of self-portrayal media.  I think maybe "The Singles Ward" one may qualify but I don't really like Romantic Comedies and the cover sort of advertises it that way:

http://www.imdb.com/media/rm3921387264/tt0306069
-----

The most recent piece of media I've been experiencing is the Fallout Universe, more specifically the "Honest Hearts" DLC where the Mormon Religion is presented through a group of survivors of the Nuclear Holocaust called the "New Canaanites".

While I don't want to go into the complete backstory of the character here, I find "The Burned Man" aka Joshua Graham to be a intriguing character, and although this is obviously speculative fiction I managed to learn that the .45 Automatic Colt Pistol was a product of one of the members of the Latter Day Saints (John Moses Browning)

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-OhjY...600/ScreenShot64.bmp
katisara
GM, 5428 posts
Conservative human
Antagonist
Tue 11 Dec 2012
at 16:34
  • msg #2

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

Browning invented a LOT of cool guns.

Yeah, I was rather pleased with how the LDS Church was portrayed in that game. It wasn't heavy-handed, and it portrayed a real conflict that all religious people have to struggle with (and which is even documented in the Book of Mormon itself); is it better to take lives in justifiable self-defense, or to live a life like Jesus and give up everything when asked, even if it may lead to your own death?
Heath
GM, 4992 posts
Affiliation: LDS
Occupation: Attorney
Tue 18 Dec 2012
at 23:11
  • msg #3

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

I guess I'm not familiar with the Fallout thing.  Is that related to the Fallout 3 game?

Most of the movies like "The Singles Ward" is intended for an LDS audience, particularly the inside jokes, but it definitely has a wider appeal.  Other funny ones include "The RM" (referring to a "return missionary" coming back home to the awkwardness of everything having changed since he's gone) and "The Home Teachers" (poking fun at the system of having Ward members visit your home once a month to see if there's anything the family needs, which some groan at doing and others love to do). "Baptists at our Barbeque" is pretty funny too, about members of the two religions learning to get along and mix well despite religious differences.

There are a number of others too, along with books.

For a mainstream book, you might like "Folk on the Fringe" by Orson Scott Card (who is Mormon), which has a story about Mormon survivors in a post-apocalyptic world.  His "Memory of Earth" series is also allegorically a sort of retelling of parts of the Book of Mormon, and his Alvinmaker books have certain allegories and stories that were related to Joseph Smith.

A very interesting series of movies (based on the books, which I have not read) are "The Work and The Glory" trilogy.  This follows a fictional family as they meet Joseph Smith, some join the church while others don't, and follows the historical facts through a fictional family in a very well dramatized story that is not overly religious and runs more like a historical drama with a backdrop of the foundation of the LDS church and the various oppression heaped upon the early members.
Sciencemile
GM, 1722 posts
Opinion is the default
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Wed 19 Dec 2012
at 01:33
  • msg #4

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

I'll have to check out a couple of those.

I liked OSC's "Ender's Game", and although I read all the way up to the second Bean one, they just kept getting progressively worse; I remember reading Ender's Shadow and having to take breaks because of how irritated I was getting at some of the character's actions or attitudes.

I have a feeling that Stephanie Meyer wanted to do the Edward Perspective for a similar reason as OSC; I'm not sure exactly which, but apparently if I recall correctly two of the chapters in the BOM are exactly like that, same story different perspective.

I remember you saying something about "The Land Before Time" by Don Bluth being sort of homage to certain stories in the BOM.  It struck me as humorous at the time because there's a lot of weird "Dinosaurs from Outer Space" stuff that goes on in some of the sequels and I'm sure you probably only meant the first one.

Heath:
I guess I'm not familiar with the Fallout thing.  Is that related to the Fallout 3 game?


Oh you might be VERY interested if you're a fallout fan; after Fallout 3 they contracted Obsidian to do another game, which they set on the West Coast, where the other two had taken place.

Here's the intro for that, since Ron Pearlman sums it up better than I could:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BxOiVxTB0KY
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:35, Wed 19 Dec 2012.
Heath
GM, 4993 posts
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Wed 19 Dec 2012
at 18:42
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Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

I agree that OSC has focused too much on dialogue and that stuff as the Ender novels progressed and less on the action and science fiction.  I usually just get them on CD and listen to them on my commute.

Never heard about the Stephanie Meyer thing.  I've read the books but am not a big fan.

The Land Before Time thing was not literal or anything.  And yes, I was referring to the first movie.  I was talking about the theme.  Similar, I suppose, to his cartoon All Dogs Go To Heaven.  "American Tail" could be seen as an allegory to the pioneers crossing the plains, too, I suppose.  I just think he pulls ideas from his worldview and makes them into interesting cartoons.  But only "Land Before Time" made me think as I watched it that it must be made by a Mormon because of the themes (before I knew Don Bluth was, in fact, LDS).

You may not also realize this but Bluth made the video game "Dragon's Lair," which was really popular in the 80's when I was in high school, as well as "Titan A.E.," which I thought was pretty good.
Doulos
player, 215 posts
Wed 19 Dec 2012
at 19:40
  • msg #6

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

A friend's dad had Dragon's Lair at his home when I was growing up and we spent so much time playing it - and we never made it very far in the game.  FOund it quite difficult as a kid.
Sciencemile
GM, 1723 posts
Opinion is the default
for most everything I say
Wed 19 Dec 2012
at 19:56
  • msg #7

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

Oh yeah I'm relatively well-studied in his works; I saw Titan A.E. as a kid, back when they were starting to include Music Videos on the VHS as a special feature in an effort to compete against DVDs; also I believe he animated Anastasia for Fox.

He may have also helped animate Once Upon a Forest and The Pagemaster for Fox as well, but I could be wrong about that.

Videogame-wise, there was also Dragon's Lair 2, and um...there was a Sci-Fi one he did as well.  I forgot the name.

Some of my favorite Disney Movies are the lesser known during the Don Bluth Era; The Fox and the Hound, The Sword in the Stone, and Robin Hood.

Also, who can forget A Troll in Central Park, The Pebble and the Penguin...Secret of Nimh...Rockadoodle...not all of them the best of movies, but one can't knock the quality of the animation.
---------

More recently, there was the Broadway Musical "The Book of Mormon", which I have had the opportunity to watch...albeit let's just say that I saw it when it was in previews but I've never been to New York *shifty eyes*.

EDIT: I'd see it in person when it comes to Seattle next year...but I don't have 200 dollars to get the least expensive seat :/

Reviews are relatively positive albeit there are a few reviews that comment on a few things which was informative (I don't know if they changed it but apparently the suit the Mission President was wearing wasn't the right color).

From my perspective, it's quite possibly the best Musical I've ever seen...then again I've never seen any other Broadway musical so take that for what it's worth; not even Cats, and that used to be on all the time on PBS.

The songs are catchy, and one of two main characters, Elder Cunningham, looks uncannily like one of my friends.  Without spoiling too much, one of my favorite running jokes in the play is that Elder Cunningham keeps getting this one girl's name wrong.
This message was last edited by the GM at 19:59, Wed 19 Dec 2012.
Heath
GM, 4994 posts
Affiliation: LDS
Occupation: Attorney
Wed 19 Dec 2012
at 22:15
  • msg #8

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

Sciencemile:
Videogame-wise, there was also Dragon's Lair 2, and um...there was a Sci-Fi one he did as well.  I forgot the name.

I think you are referring to Space Ace.

quote:
More recently, there was the Broadway Musical "The Book of Mormon", which I have had the opportunity to watch...albeit let's just say that I saw it when it was in previews but I've never been to New York *shifty eyes*.

Well, that's actually somewhat of an anti-Mormon play, not accurate, so don't take it as more than fiction.  Don Bluth's things are probably closer to reality than that.  ;)
quote:
From my perspective, it's quite possibly the best Musical I've ever seen...then again I've never seen any other Broadway musical so take that for what it's worth; not even Cats, and that used to be on all the time on PBS.

I still think Les Miserables is one of the best musicals -- going to see it in the theaters next week.  I also loved Spamalot -- the Vegas version.
Doulos
player, 216 posts
Thu 20 Dec 2012
at 03:50
  • msg #9

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

Les Miserables is also my favorite, though a well done version of Into The Woods is quite fun as well.

Regarding 'The Book of Mormon' Ken Jennings, who is an LDS member, had this to say:

"Saw it on Broadway last year! Paid through the nose and it was worth every penny. I laughed until all my sphincters gave out. There's your blurb for Playbill.

Obviously it's in terrible taste, but it's in SUCH terrible taste that it seems almost beside the point to complain about that."
Heath
GM, 4995 posts
Affiliation: LDS
Occupation: Attorney
Thu 20 Dec 2012
at 18:26
  • msg #10

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

I have not seen the play because it is made by the South Park creators, who did a wholly inaccurate and pretty blasphemous depiction of church history in a South Park episode, that I saw only because my wife called me over to watch because she couldn't believe how crazy and wrong the "facts" were in it.

In reading through a summary of the Acts in the play, it is very factually inaccurate as to how the missionary process works.  For example, you are always paired with someone who has more experience than you (for the first year, typically) and then you become the senior and take on the new people.  The person you are with typically changes every 2 to 4 months as rotations go around.  And no one can request a "transfer" to another mission area, though they could ask for a transfer within their current mission area (for example, if you have personality conflicts).

So if you watch it, just know it's not accurate at all.  The only reason I see that as a problem that bothers me is because many people are unfamiliar with the process and may believe it is accurate.

Here's what I pulled up regarding official responses.  It's not like it was protested or anything, just kind of an alternate reality that "it's there."
quote:
LDS Church response

The response of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to the musical has been described as "measured".[50] The church released an official response to inquiries regarding the musical, stating, "The production may attempt to entertain audiences for an evening, but the Book of Mormon as a volume of scripture will change people's lives forever by bringing them closer to Christ."[51] Michael Otterson, the head of Public Affairs for the church, followed in April 2011 with measured criticism. "Of course, parody isn't reality, and it's the very distortion that makes it appealing and often funny. The danger is not when people laugh but when they take it seriously—if they leave a theater believing that Mormons really do live in some kind of a surreal world of self-deception and illusion", Otterson wrote, outlining various humanitarian efforts achieved by Mormon missionaries in Africa in recent years.[52][53]

Stone and Parker were unsurprised by this response:


"The official church response was something along the lines of 'The Book of Mormon the musical might entertain you for a night, but the Book of Mormon,'—the book as scripture—'will change your life through Jesus.' Which we actually completely agree with. The Mormon church's response to this musical is almost like our Q.E.D. at the end of it. That's a cool, American response to a ribbing—a big musical that's done in their name. Before the church responded, a lot of people would ask us, 'Are you afraid of what the church would say?' And Trey and I were like, 'They're going to be cool.' And they were like, 'No, they're not. There are going to be protests.' And we were like, 'Nope, they're going to be cool.' We weren't that surprised by the church's response. We had faith in them."[10]

The LDS Church took advertising out in the playbill at the Los Angeles showing of the musical to encourage attendees to learn more about The Book of Mormon, with phrases like "the book is always better."[54]

Mormons themselves have had varying responses to the musical. Richard Bushman, professor of Mormon studies, said of the musical, "Mormons experience the show like looking at themselves in a fun-house mirror. The reflection is hilarious but not really you. The nose is yours but swollen out of proportion."[55] Bushman said that the musical was not meant to explain Mormon belief, and that many of the ideas in Elder Price's "I Believe" (like God living on a planet called Kolob), though having some roots in Mormon belief, are not doctrinally accurate.[55][56]

This message was last edited by the GM at 18:27, Thu 20 Dec 2012.
Sciencemile
GM, 1724 posts
Opinion is the default
for most everything I say
Thu 20 Dec 2012
at 22:23
  • msg #11

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

Well see there you go, depictions of all kinds, negative, positive, neutral, and worshipful :P.

Although I can't really say what is and isn't offensive to a group I'm not a member of, it doesn't strike me as "Anti-Mormon" maybe it's just because I've seen some relatively more negative depictions.

Take this, for example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3BqLZ8UoZk

EDIT: I found that hard to sit through, to be honest.  The mentality that goes into these sorts of things must leave some sort of directorial aura of sleaze.
This message was last edited by the GM at 22:44, Thu 20 Dec 2012.
Heath
GM, 4996 posts
Affiliation: LDS
Occupation: Attorney
Fri 21 Dec 2012
at 00:17
  • msg #12

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

Some of the most dangerous ones, for me, are the ones that are not outright "anti" Mormon but that introduce untrue subtleties that affect the public consciousness (in a false light) about the beliefs or history of the group.  The "anti" ones are also, of course, just plain offensive, but reasonable people, even if unfamiliar with the church, can hopefully see through those.

EDIT: Looking at the comments on the cartoon you linked to, I guess reasonable people can't always see through the lies (unless mostly unreasonable people post, which is possible).
This message was last edited by the GM at 00:21, Fri 21 Dec 2012.
Sciencemile
GM, 1725 posts
Opinion is the default
for most everything I say
Fri 21 Dec 2012
at 02:52
  • msg #13

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

It's youtube; everybody speaks their mind, whether they have one or not.
Heath
GM, 4997 posts
Affiliation: LDS
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Fri 21 Dec 2012
at 17:31
  • msg #14

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

And it's an American tradition to pass judgment on things they have not adequately researched so that their ignorance can shine through for the rest of the world to mock.
Sciencemile
GM, 1726 posts
Opinion is the default
for most everything I say
Mon 24 Dec 2012
at 17:42
  • msg #15

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

quote:
Some of the most dangerous ones, for me, are the ones that are not outright "anti" Mormon but that introduce untrue subtleties that affect the public consciousness (in a false light) about the beliefs or history of the group.


Well maybe, but I'm not sure how the inconsistency you mentioned regarding the Senior and Junior status quo (which, while not entirely mentioned, it's pretty well established in both dialogue and one of the musicals who the Senior Elder is), would be portraying LDS beliefs in a false light in any substantially negative fashion.

To paraphrase Peter Jackson's "Meet the Feebles", it's a Broadway Musical Comedy, not an homage to Soviet Realism.  I think that the motivation behind any inconsistencies regarding the Elders was probably to make their chemistry more like The Odd Couple (which I've seen but not on Broadway, there's a local playhouse I once volunteered at, serving refreshments during intermission).

EDIT:  Another thing that they may have changed or may not but was nevertheless I think an innacuracy in the previews:  I don't think "Praise Christ" is a common exclamation among LDS; the Mission President says this a lot in the Act he appears in.  I could be wrong.
This message was last edited by the GM at 17:49, Mon 24 Dec 2012.
Sciencemile
GM, 1727 posts
Opinion is the default
for most everything I say
Mon 24 Dec 2012
at 18:00
  • msg #16

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

However, here is a critique by Deseret News that I can't disagree with overall.

http://www.deseretnews.com/art...e-satire.html?pg=all
Heath
GM, 4998 posts
Affiliation: LDS
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Wed 9 Jan 2013
at 17:19
  • msg #17

Re: Depictions of Latter Day Saints in Popular Culture

I will reiterate that I haven't seen it, so I can only speak to it generally.  The article you post is very good.  I will quote from part of it:

quote:
Misstating LDS beliefs

The musical's book and lyrics contain multiple inaccurate representations of LDS beliefs and practices.

Some of the errors are arguably inconsequential, and likely the result of efforts to simplify for plot's sake. They include the specifics of how missionaries receive their proselytizing assignments, LDS mission rules and nuances regarding Lamanites and Nephites in the actual Book of Mormon.

Yet, "The Book of Mormon" musical also contains less benign inaccuracies, like misrepresenting Joseph Smith's history, distorting Mormon epistemology and misconstruing the church's teachings about the afterlife. For example, the song "All-American Prophet" puts to music a version of the Joseph Smith story that is riddled with errors both small and large. In one notable example, the angel Moroni sings, "Don't let anybody see these plates except for you (Joseph)," and then toward the end of the song, during the scene depicting Smith's death, the prophet sings "Oh God, why are you letting me die without having me show people the plates? They'll have no proof I was telling the truth or not they'll have to believe it just cuz. Oh. I guess that's kind of what you were going for."

Contrary to the musical's portrayal, historical records indicate that at least 11 people signed testimonies indicating that Smith had shown them the Golden Plates. The accounts of these witnesses are printed in each copy of The Book of Mormon — but the song makes no mention of them.

In another song titled "I Believe," the character Elder Price repeatedly sings the refrain "I am a Mormon and a Mormon just believes." The refrain is interspersed with lines like "(God's) plan involves me getting my own planet." This statement, like many in the song, represents an out-of-context fragment of doctrine that, on its own, is inaccurate.

In the song, "Spooky Mormon Hell Dream," the character of Elder Price finds himself dreaming that he is in the midst of Hades' flames with the likes of Genghis Khan, Adolf Hitler and others. While the scene's absurdity lends itself easily to laughs by poking fun at strict LDS mission rules, it nonetheless dramatically distorts the LDS conception of a multi-tiered heaven (three kingdoms of glory) and outer darkness. The "hell" depicted in the musical is much closer to the fire-and-brimstone preaching of early Puritanical ministers.

Yet, Mormons are not the only ones misrepresented. The musical's characterization of Ugandans is perhaps worse.


You are right that we never say "Praise Christ," "Hallelujah," or similar phrases.  Our services are done in solemnity to invite the soft presence of the Holy Ghost, and we refrain from using the Lord's name more than necessary, typically keeping it only to prayers, talks or discussions requiring it, or where otherwise necessary.

"I am a Mormon and a Mormon just believes" is also highly inaccurate.  We are told there is truth in almost all religion and are sought to seek out truth in all forms, and then to pray and discover for ourselves.  We are not taught to "just believe," but instead to "just confirm" through our own hard work and thought.

Anyway, clearly the play seems to merge a distorted and false epistomology of the church with practices that are Puritan or Baptist.  It doesn't seem very accurate at all from what I see.

But let me say this:  I wouldn't mind so much if people knew what the LDS church believes and knew the comedy/parody value, but since many people don't know these things, they unfortunately will believe what the play portrays as being true.  That's what I'm concerned about.
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