So, skills have often been an argued topic. HOW they should be done is often the argument but I'm wondering IF they should be done. Here is a blog that makes a lot of good points:

http://hackslashmaster.blogspo...ruction-summary.html

So I'm wondering, what if instead of having skills be level-based bonuses to certain d20 rolls I had them be a combination of a bonus and a special ability?

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Here are a few examples of skills transformed into one-time special abilities. Perhaps feats or class features?


ACROBATICS - Requires (Dex 13+)
You gain +4 to Dexterity checks made to perform athletic maneuvers (or a bonus equal to your Dexterity bonus, whichever is better). You also gain this benefit to your AC and Dexterity saving throws during your turn (but not outside your turn). You are still subject to the Max Dex of your Armor.

CLIMBING - Requires (Str or Dex 13+)
You gain +4 to Strength checks made to climb or brachiate through obstacles (or a bonus equal to your Strength bonus, whichever is better). In addition, you are not denied your Dexterity modifier while climbing and can climb at one-half your normal base speed instead of one-fourth. A creature with a special trait that innately makes climbing more difficult (such as a turtle's shell) cannot benefit from this feat.

DIPLOMACY- Requires (Cha 13+)
You gain +4 to Charisma checks made to calm a sentient humanoid down or convince them to help you, provided you have a way of communicating with them (or a bonus equal to your Charisma bonus, whichever is better). In addition, you can sway social scenes in your favor in half the time or at half the cost (but not both at the same time). If your Charisma is 20 or higher, this bonus increases to match your Charisma modifier. A creature with a special ability that innately makes socializing more difficult (such as an animal's Bestial Mind or a golem's Automaton Traits) cannot take this ability.


MECHANICS- Requires (Dex 13+ or Int 13+)
You gain +4 to Dexterity and Intelligence checks made to pick locks and to craft, disarm or re-purpose traps and similar basic mechanical devices. In addition, you can do these things in half the time or at half the cost as normal (but not both at the same time). If your Dexterity or Intelligence scores are 20 or higher, this bonus increases to match your modifier (whichever one you're using at the time). A creature with a special ability that innately makes working with machines more difficult (such as a magnet elemental's Magnetic Personality or an animal's Bestial Triats) cannot take this ability.

SPELLCRAFT - Requires (Int 13+) or (Wis 13+, Divine Insight)
You gain +4 to Intelligence checks made to analyze, identify or utilize magical artifacts or lore. In addition, you can perform rituals in half the time or with half the cost (but not both at the same time). If your Intelligence is 20 or higher, this bonus increases to match your Intelligence modifier. A creature with a special ability that innately makes spellcasting or knowledge more difficult (such as animal's Bestial Mind or a golem's Magic Immunity) cannot take this ability.

JACK-OF-MANY-TRADES
Select any two skill abilities. You acquire both but at half the normal bonus (only +2 instead of +4) and the bonus does not increase to match your ability modifier but rather increases to match half your modifier (so if you had a modifier of +6, the bonus would increase to +3 and so on and so forth). Instead of "half time" or "half cost" you do 3/4 time or 3/4 cost. Instead of doubling the normal speed you can move (if the skill does so) you merely increase it by x1.5. In addition, your ability score can be 2 points less than normally required in the prerequisites. You gain no other benefits from the skills you choose.

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What I need are not personal feelings towards the rules but broader analysis of this concept. What are the pros and cons in:
-general game mechanics?
-character building/customization?
-general gamer opinion?
-gameplay speed/complexity/round-to-round functions?
-roleplaying aspects of skills?
-character vs. monster relations?

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Each character could start with

2-4 skills
2-4 proficiency feats
2-4 spells
1 feat of their choice

Ideally, a well-rounded character would have:
2 skills
2 proficiency feats
2 spells
1 feat
(probably a bard)

Fighters may have
2 skills
4 proficiency feats

Rogues
4 skills
2 proficiency feats

etc.
This message was last edited by the GM at 23:58, Thu 02 Nov 2017.

Inherently, separating the process from level minimizes how much 'scaling' you can do based on level for any kinds of 'skill-tests' you implement as challenges into an adventure.  You have a small degree of scaling, due to variation (allowing characters to buy additional feats to help them widen their abilities) and some slow advancement via purchasing higher skills, although that relies on attributes going higher than 18, which unless changing the frequency of advancement will be rarer.  (I do like that if your attribute is higher the ability improves with it.)

In cases like P6 pathfinder, or other implementations of games where you don't want as significant differentiation between an extremely experienced hero and a moderately experienced one, this could be a good way to implement things, as you are already re-tooling your challenges anyway.

As was mentioned in the blog and comments, one thing I specifically like skills for, is customization, making my character unique, tying things back to their background and personality.  There are often enough skill points available, that this is one place where you can express some of these smaller aspects of their choices.  This variation would make the cost of this customization much higher and potentially harder.  If you include the Traits mechanism, however, you might be able to introduce traits that would be smaller than 'feat' skills, that could boost specific limited applications, not unlike the wider ones provided by feats.

Game play... this would probably be a little faster... fewer choices to look through... (unless traits in play, but even those, would likely be a few exceptions, which any one player would know,as they would likely only have a couple they would have to worry about)  The potential time-sink might be in character creation, of someone trying to work out how to make the person have the background they are wanting, and have their abilities reflect it.

Generally speaking, I'm probably inclined to say I likely wouldn't specifically choose to use this variant, but it seems reasonable enough, I wouldn't use it as a reason not to play in a game if this variant was in use.  Who knows, if I played in a game with it, perhaps I might find I might like it.  Probably, some way of feeling like I was able to represent my background effectively, perhaps through traits, might be key for my liking it.  Otherwise, I might feel the need to limit my character concepts to ones that wouldn't need variations from their background.  Or the game nature would need to constrain the scope of the interactions to just battle related scenes, ignoring other aspects, more like a wargame than I typically play.

Might have an Animal skill... might be able to include Animal Handling and Riding for instance.

You might want to look at Healer as well.  The blog, the blogger seemed to repeatedly skip the Treat Injury aspects of the Healing skill, despite it having been brought up what seemed like a couple times, the blogger seemed to presume it was referring to the Bind Wounds aspect.  Although to a degree, I can see the point of simple binding of wounds being a potentially 'un-fun' roll that takes up time.  However, it seems to potentially be relevant in cases of stopping more dangerous bleed damage, and could have even more use if the Treat Wounds mechanic were more used.  The biggest issue with that, in my opinion is the fact that healing packs can about the same amount as healing scrolls, and those are more of a guarantee. If a healing kit cost 5 or 10gp, potentially allowing a 'masterwork' healing kit costing something more like 50gp.

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Potential example...
Healing - Requires (Wis 13+) or (INT 13+ and Precise Treatment)
You get a +4 on healing checks. (or + WIS bonus for greater than 18)
 Teat Condition: You can once per day per person per condition allow the patient to re-roll a condition based saving throw.  If your bonus to healing is greater than bonus to the save, they may use your bonus rather than theirs, as long as their bonus is not negative.  If theirs is negative, for some reason, they can use your bonus, but must also apply their penalty.
 Treat Injury: Once per day, per individual, you may treat a wound.  For each point of roll in excess of DC15, the individual is healed 1HP damage, to a maximum of their HD+your WIS bonus.  If the individual is below 1/2 their MAX HP, this check is against DC20 instead.  IF the individual was fatigued before the treatment, the individual must voluntarily submit to the Fatigued condition for one hour after treatment.  They may attempt to drop the condition, but must make a DC20 fortitude check.  For each point it is missed by, you lose 1 point of damage which was healed (max the healed damage).  If you lose all the hit points you were healed, you also fail to remove the fatigued condition.

SCALING
Yes, the idea is to make scaling more ability based and less level-based. If someone wants decent "Acrobatics" they just take the skill feat, but if they want amazing Acrobatics, they keep buffing their Dexterity AND take the Acrobatics skill feat. I like scaling with level, but not as much as Pathfinder or D&D 3.5 did traditionally. The bonuses were way over the top even with non-powergamers.

CUSTOMIZATION VS. UTILITY
I also dislike the vast differences in skills when using skill points. The 20th level rogue could literally have 5 ranks in just about everything but at 20th level, that would make 20th level skill DCs near impossible for him to achieve. Sure it adds "flavor" to the character's customization, but it also makes them suck at achieving goals expected of his level. I'd rather characters be slightly more archetypical than unplayable.

GAMEPLAY SPEED
Okay, I'm not crazy. This really would speed up character creation as well as level ups since they could always acquire a new skill as a feat if they really felt the need.

PERSONAL TAKE
When I'm designing a game I usually try making a character I'd like to play as a way of determining whether I would like the rule or not. In this case, it's actually not a variant for Pathfinder or any existing d20 game but a possible rule for a game I'm making on my own. At 1st level it looks very similar to Pathfinder though, so if you can make a 1st level character with this and be pleased with it as a 1st level version of the character you want to play, then I've done my job.

MORE SKILLS
Of course. These were just a few examples so far. Excellent example.

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ARTILLERY: Base attack bonus for siege weapons and spells that make attacks, caster level for evocation spells
ATHLETICS: Acrobatics, climb, swim, caster level for Polymorph spells
CRAFT: Craft (all), Profession (all), all Conjuration and Transmutation spells that target or create objects or constructs
FINESSE: Base attack bonus for light weapons and ranged weapons
LORE: Knowledge (all), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device, Caster level for Abjuration and Divination spells
MELEE: Base attack bonus for melee weapons and combat maneuvers
SUBTERFUGE: Bluff, disguise, disable device, sleight of hand, stealth, caster level for Illusion spells
SURVIVAL: Handle Animal, Perception, Heal, Survival, caster level for divine spells that aren't abjuration, evocation, divination or illusion (except commune with nature)
This message was last edited by the GM at 06:35, Sun 18 Oct 2015.