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BESM Platformer.

Posted by steelsmiterFor group 0
steelsmiter
player, 89 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 00:54
  • msg #1

BESM Platformer

Everything here is subject to change.
Jumping
If you assume BESM Stats of 2,3,4, (as platformer characters are supposed to just be normal characters that are subjected to different physical realities) and that default characters can jump 3/4 of body stat, this most likely means that characters need 1 level of Jumping to jump the 9 feet speculated of Mario. If you make stats around 4,5,6, then you are still only getting 18 feet, so one level of Jumping is a pretty fair assumption.

A special note on flight, levitation, and teleportation- Short term flight and levitation are often applied to suits or power ups. You simply can't have them otherwise. Teleportation would seemingly shortcircuit the adventure, so it's outright banned.

Lethal Blow
Mario could jump on his opponents and knock them out or kill them if they were soft enough. Later, he could actually punch them out. Lethal Blow should be automatic for this type of platformer character.

Reincarnation 10 (1 round, Difficult to stop, 3 Charges (-6)) 94 points
Ok, 94 points seems like an awful lot to pay for 3 charges of regeneration, so this is a special case. The two options are to make it -6 points PER LEVEL for a total cost of 40 points, or to make the charges rechargeable upon meeting certain conditions. Green Spotted mushrooms in Mario are an example of this. So it's 94 points for the fact that you START with 3 charges, but can go beyond that if you meet the right conditions.

Suits and Items
Items in Platformers transform their users, granting them special abilities at half price. Unfortunately, in platformers, the first time the user of a powerup is struck, the powerup vanishes.
Super Mushroom:
+2 Superstrength (this means +4 to body rolls and x7 damage multiplier for melee attacks and Weapons with the Muscle variable). Canonically, as far as I can remember, other power ups require you to be under the effects of a super mushroom (except the Super Star). In platformer games, this type of powerup should be the only way to increase your damage multiplier.

Fire Flower
Weapon. Creatures with plate armor stop 20 damage, In Mario, this stops Fire Flowers, but not other weapons like Tail Attacks. This indicates to me that Plate Armor should have Armor 5 (Emphasized: Fire, Item), and that Fire Flowers should be limited to Weapon Level 4.

Super Star
Weapon 5 (Aura 5, Duration 5 rounds) allows the character to inflict 25 or 35 damage by merely touching someone, depending on whether they have Super Mushroom active. Immunity (Attacks, Duration 5 rounds) ensures the only way to kill the platformer is for him to fall off the platform.

Super Leaf
Weapon (Tail; Probably 3-4 levels), and Flight (probably with Maintain and/or Glide).

Frog Suit
Jumping +1, Water Speed +1

Other suits may be added. I probably won't go past N64 because that's really the furthest I know, although the Wiki suggests there's a bit of an invulnerability upsurge in later games, and they do some things previous games made automatic anyway.
Arkrim
GM, 278 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 01:25
  • msg #2

Re: BESM Platformer

Methodology:
As this is for a video game, I'm pretty sure you'll find fleshing out the basic platformer and then conforming BESM stats into it will be far easier and more pragmatic than going in reverse.

Movement:
As a platformer, "movement" is very important. Everyone needs to have a "special move" that allows them to get around. If they are agile, they can double jump, run up walls or move faster. If they are strong, they can knock things down to walk over or break things in their way or throw heavy objects long distances to get what they want anyway. If they are magical, they can teleport, fly or summon a mount, but these should be restricted to only short distances and only in certain circumstances. For example, they can't teleport through a wall, only through obstacles that agile characters normally jump over or that strong characters break through. Simply making the teleport not work into locations you can't go is fine. The wizard can't teleport somewhere if he doesn't know where he's going and they can't fly when there's a ceiling in the way or strong winds blocking them.

Attack:
I think its easier to give everyone a basic attack, a power up attack and super move. Depending on their archetype, it may be different. It may even be possible (if you want to get complex) to have multiple times of basic attacks, power up attacks and super moves that you can switch between by changing which weapon you have equipped or something like that (Megaman style). The wizard has different staffs they can get, the warrior different heavy melee weapons and the rogue different daggers they can throw or bows they can shoot.

Respawn:
Everyone respawns. Buying regeneration can add a healing factor as well as lower your respawn time. Change the cost ratio however you see fit, but make sure you have a set respawn time before you start deciding what to do with it.

Power Ups:
Be it an item or magical power, a power up is a temporary effect. No need to categorize it as "suit" or "flower" or anything like that. Just let it be a "power up". Now, if you want to actually collect gear and items and swap out (add a little RPG element to it) that would be really cool.
This message was last edited by the GM at 01:26, Sun 14 Dec 2014.
steelsmiter
player, 93 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 01:59
  • msg #3

Re: BESM Platformer

Arkrim:
As this is for a video game, I'm pretty sure you'll find fleshing out the basic platformer and then conforming BESM stats into it will be far easier and more pragmatic than going in reverse.

I don't quite understand what you mean by this. As in "whether or not it should be limited to a specific platformer"? Other than that, I don't see how non-statistical conversion is relevant.

quote:
Movement:
As a platformer, "movement" is very important. Everyone needs to have a "special move" that allows them to get around. If they are agile, they can double jump, run up walls or move faster. If they are strong, they can knock things down to walk over or break things in their way or throw heavy objects long distances to get what they want anyway.

Hadn't thought of multiple ways. or anything but Mario really, but I guess there's other platformers.

quote:
If they are magical, they can teleport, fly or summon a mount, but these should be restricted to only short distances and only in certain circumstances. For example, they can't teleport through a wall, only through obstacles that agile characters normally jump over or that strong characters break through. Simply making the teleport not work into locations you can't go is fine. The wizard can't teleport somewhere if he doesn't know where he's going and they can't fly when there's a ceiling in the way or strong winds blocking them.

Right. Fair enough.

quote:
Attack:
I think its easier to give everyone a basic attack, a power up attack and super move.

Well, the way I set it up provides everyone with the ability to strike unarmed. Perhaps I could allow levels of Brutal for the basic attack (and 2 levels would suit the strongman). Hadn't really thought of a supermove though.

quote:
Depending on their archetype, it may be different. It may even be possible (if you want to get complex) to have multiple times of basic attacks, power up attacks and super moves that you can switch between by changing which weapon you have equipped or something like that (Megaman style). The wizard has different staffs they can get, the warrior different heavy melee weapons and the rogue different daggers they can throw or bows they can shoot.

Well, I don't really want to have Fantasy characters, because that's a bit overdone. Mario 3 (for example) has an inventory, so being able to store suits or other powerups is something I'm not opposed to.

quote:
Respawn:
Everyone respawns. Buying regeneration can add a healing factor as well as lower your respawn time. Change the cost ratio however you see fit, but make sure you have a set respawn time before you start deciding what to do with it.

Well, I don't see anything about Regeneration affecting Reincarnation in BESM. It does in GURPS. That said, I realize now that even discussing points is basically moot since everyone has it anyway. Now that I think about it, putting a BESM time on Respawns is moot anyway, since the other players in most multiplayer platformers are able to continue on until the party completely dies off, at which point everyone respawns. Probably shouldn't be worth points at all.

In a Mario game though, the number of green mushrooms needs to increase drastically though. And their function should allow other players to instantly respawn the downed character.

Power Ups:
Be it an item or magical power, a power up is a temporary effect. No need to categorize it as "suit" or "flower" or anything like that. Just let it be a "power up". Now, if you want to actually collect gear and items and swap out (add a little RPG element to it) that would be really cool.
</quote>
That's the underlying assumption behind labeling it as a flower or suit or leaf or whatever the case may be. But that's more a Mario Specific case than a Platformer In General case.

That said, I know (all fairly old school) Mario, TMNT (which isn't nearly this in depth), Mega Man, and Sonic. I'd have to bow to expertise for any other or more recent ones.
Arkrim
GM, 281 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 03:05
  • msg #4

Re: BESM Platformer

steelsmiter:
Arkrim:
As this is for a video game, I'm pretty sure you'll find fleshing out the basic platformer and then conforming BESM stats into it will be far easier and more pragmatic than going in reverse.

I don't quite understand what you mean by this. As in "whether or not it should be limited to a specific platformer"? Other than that, I don't see how non-statistical conversion is relevant.

Meaning you set forth the basic rules of the platformer game and then start incorporating BESM stats into it. Or are you not actually trying to create a platformer video game layout? Maybe I'm the one confused as to your intentions here.

quote:
Attack:
I think its easier to give everyone a basic attack, a power up attack and super move.

quote:
Well, the way I set it up provides everyone with the ability to strike unarmed. Perhaps I could allow levels of Brutal for the basic attack (and 2 levels would suit the strongman). Hadn't really thought of a supermove though.

With video games, I've found that supermoves are something players really have fun building towards and they're neat little effects as well. It's just something to add flair to the game, especially for people who want to play something anime-styled like BESM. Supermoves are everywhere in anime, especially the "adventure" types.

quote:
Depending on their archetype, it may be different. It may even be possible (if you want to get complex) to have multiple times of basic attacks, power up attacks and super moves that you can switch between by changing which weapon you have equipped or something like that (Megaman style). The wizard has different staffs they can get, the warrior different heavy melee weapons and the rogue different daggers they can throw or bows they can shoot.

quote:
Well, I don't really want to have Fantasy characters, because that's a bit overdone. Mario 3 (for example) has an inventory, so being able to store suits or other powerups is something I'm not opposed to.

Fair enough. You can set your archetypes up however you see fit. These were just starting points for some ideas. You could have Strong Man, Fast Man, Super Powers Guy or whatever. Just create the archetypes to work with. You can even use the actual BESM classes if you want (though that would get more complex).

quote:
Respawn:
Everyone respawns. Buying regeneration can add a healing factor as well as lower your respawn time. Change the cost ratio however you see fit, but make sure you have a set respawn time before you start deciding what to do with it.

quote:
Well, I don't see anything about Regeneration affecting Reincarnation in BESM. It does in GURPS. That said, I realize now that even discussing points is basically moot since everyone has it anyway. Now that I think about it, putting a BESM time on Respawns is moot anyway, since the other players in most multiplayer platformers are able to continue on until the party completely dies off, at which point everyone respawns. Probably shouldn't be worth points at all.

Agreed.

steelsmiter:
In a Mario game though, the number of green mushrooms needs to increase drastically though. And their function should allow other players to instantly respawn the downed character.
...
That said, I know (all fairly old school) Mario, TMNT (which isn't nearly this in depth), Mega Man, and Sonic. I'd have to bow to expertise for any other or more recent ones.

Mario is fun, but most platformers today have other forms of attack and other special abilities than JUST "jump on it" and "wait until you find a power up somewhere". People want more than that. Blame kids these days. :P
This message was last edited by the GM at 03:05, Sun 14 Dec 2014.
steelsmiter
player, 95 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 07:05
  • msg #5

Re: BESM Platformer

Arkrim:
Meaning you set forth the basic rules of the platformer game and then start incorporating BESM stats into it.

I don't understand how setting forth the basic rules of the platformer isn't incoporating BESM stats to a platformer theme. Or expressed another way, I know no other way of setting up a platformer game for a system other than to say what platforming characters can or cannot do within the system, and how GMs should or should not run it. (For example, all characters should have Reincarnation (player 'stat' requirement) but GMs should not charge for it (GM guideline)). We can discuss platformer tropes all we want, but at the end of the day, all that can be done with a TVtropes link, and I still need BESM stats for spelling out each trope.

quote:
With video games, I've found that supermoves are something players really have fun building towards and they're neat little effects as well. It's just something to add flair to the game, especially for people who want to play something anime-styled like BESM. Supermoves are everywhere in anime, especially the "adventure" types.

So perhaps I'll just decide what Weapon Levels a Supermove maxes out at. I figure with 2 levels of Brutal for unarmed attacks, a Weapon Attack should probably start at 4th level. Makes sense to me that a Supermove could go 8+. But I think having players work up to a supermove is better that way.

quote:
You could have Strong Man, Fast Man, Super Powers Guy or whatever. Just create the archetypes to work with. You can even use the actual BESM classes if you want (though that would get more complex).

Perhaps. I worry that creating Archetypes can be too confining, rather than setting minimum and maximum benchmarks and letting players otherwise have at it. I can definitely

quote:
Mario is fun, but most platformers today have other forms of attack and other special abilities than JUST "jump on it" and "wait until you find a power up somewhere". People want more than that. Blame kids these days. :P

Well, I'm talking about later instances of Mario as well. Not just jumping on it. but maybe punching it, jump kicking it, or grabbing and throwing it. Stuff like that.
Arkrim
GM, 282 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 07:30
  • msg #6

Re: BESM Platformer

steelsmiter:
Arkrim:
Meaning you set forth the basic rules of the platformer game and then start incorporating BESM stats into it.

I don't understand how setting forth the basic rules of the platformer isn't incoporating BESM stats to a platformer theme. Or expressed another way, I know no other way of setting up a platformer game for a system other than to say what platforming characters can or cannot do within the system, and how GMs should or should not run it. (For example, all characters should have Reincarnation (player 'stat' requirement) but GMs should not charge for it (GM guideline)). We can discuss platformer tropes all we want, but at the end of the day, all that can be done with a TVtropes link, and I still need BESM stats for spelling out each trope.

You seem to have trouble with this. It's very important to distinguish the difference between the platformer and the TTRPG. You realize you actually need to create physical rules that can be applied to the game right? You can't just say "It works like BESM" because that doesn't translate into the platformer game. You have to first have the physics fleshed out and THEN you take the abilities and skills from BESM and structure how they work on a platformer. This is a really basic and necessary concept for development in this field.

steelsmiter:
So perhaps I'll just decide what Weapon Levels a Supermove maxes out at. I figure with 2 levels of Brutal for unarmed attacks, a Weapon Attack should probably start at 4th level. Makes sense to me that a Supermove could go 8+. But I think having players work up to a supermove is better that way.

Sure. You can make things easier and say that supermove is an upgraded version of your basic attack with +4 ranks in every type of upgrade you can apply (range, damage, DC, whatever) + area of effect and it can't be dodged (or dodging it still lets it do half damage or something).

quote:
arkrim:
You could have Strong Man, Fast Man, Super Powers Guy or whatever. Just create the archetypes to work with. You can even use the actual BESM classes if you want (though that would get more complex).
steelsmiter:
Perhaps. I worry that creating Archetypes can be too confining, rather than setting minimum and maximum benchmarks and letting players otherwise have at it. I can definitely

Archetypes are better for video games than TTRPGs. They make it quick and easy to grab a character and start playing, which is what platformers are all about. Eliminating that and forcing everyone to start from scratch is not as fun in practice as it is in theory. It can work in an RPG like Skyrim where your character can do pretty much everything, but in a platformer it doesn't. If everyone started off the same, no one would want to play a multiplayer platformer like that and if it wasn't multiplayer, you'd just be making the same cookiecutter character as any other platformer until you leveled up enough to alter the game just enough to resemble BESM. Which can work, but I guarantee it won't be as fun. Platformers are not waiting/grinding games like straight-up RPGs are.

steelsmiter:
Well, I'm talking about later instances of Mario as well. Not just jumping on it. but maybe punching it, jump kicking it, or grabbing and throwing it. Stuff like that.

Sure. Go nuts with it. Just make sure you can split your attack forms into basic, powerup and supermove and you're golden.
This message was last edited by the GM at 07:31, Sun 14 Dec 2014.
steelsmiter
player, 97 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 07:47
  • msg #7

Re: BESM Platformer

Arkrim:
You seem to have trouble with this. It's very important to distinguish the difference between the platformer and the TTRPG. You realize you actually need to create physical rules that can be applied to the game right? You can't just say "It works like BESM" because that doesn't translate into the platformer game.

I'm not trying to say "It works like BESM", I'm trying to say "Let's get BESM to work like it" Like with the Jumping rules I arrived at because of a specific character having a ratio of jump height relative to his own. They were basically pre-existing rules within BESM that I use to inform statistical minutiae.

quote:
Sure. You can make things easier and say that supermove is an upgraded version of your basic attack with +4 ranks in every type of upgrade you can apply (range, damage, DC, whatever) + area of effect and it can't be dodged (or dodging it still lets it do half damage or something).

Awesome. I'll probably use that as is.

quote:
steelsmiter:
arkrim:
You could have Strong Man, Fast Man, Super Powers Guy or whatever. Just create the archetypes to work with. You can even use the actual BESM classes if you want (though that would get more complex).

Perhaps. I worry that creating Archetypes can be too confining, rather than setting minimum and maximum benchmarks and letting players otherwise have at it. I can definitely

Archetypes are better for video games than TTRPGs. They make it quick and easy to grab a character and start playing, which is what platformers are all about. Eliminating that and forcing everyone to start from scratch is not as fun in practice as it is in theory.

Oops, I seem to have cut myself short. What I meant to say was "I can definitely make archetypes and allow non-archetypes with benchmarks."

quote:
steelsmiter:
Well, I'm talking about later instances of Mario as well. Not just jumping on it. but maybe punching it, jump kicking it, or grabbing and throwing it. Stuff like that.

Sure. Go nuts with it. Just make sure you can split your attack forms into basic, powerup and supermove and you're golden.

Alright :D
This message was last edited by the player at 07:53, Sun 14 Dec 2014.
Arkrim
GM, 285 posts
Sun 14 Dec 2014
at 15:58
  • msg #8

Re: BESM Platformer

steelsmiter:
Arkrim:
You seem to have trouble with this. It's very important to distinguish the difference between the platformer and the TTRPG. You realize you actually need to create physical rules that can be applied to the game right? You can't just say "It works like BESM" because that doesn't translate into the platformer game.

I'm not trying to say "It works like BESM", I'm trying to say "Let's get BESM to work like it" Like with the Jumping rules I arrived at because of a specific character having a ratio of jump height relative to his own. They were basically pre-existing rules within BESM that I use to inform statistical minutiae.

Wait. So you're not actually making a platformer, you're just trying to make house rules for BESM that would make it FEEL more like a platformer??? Well, then I'm wasting my time and expertise flapping my yap about video games. >_<


steelsmiter:
arkrim:
You could have Strong Man, Fast Man, Super Powers Guy or whatever. Just create the archetypes to work with. You can even use the actual BESM classes if you want (though that would get more complex).
...
Archetypes are better for video games than TTRPGs. They make it quick and easy to grab a character and start playing, which is what platformers are all about. Eliminating that and forcing everyone to start from scratch is not as fun in practice as it is in theory.

steelsmiter:
Perhaps. I worry that creating Archetypes can be too confining, rather than setting minimum and maximum benchmarks and letting players otherwise have at it. I can definitely

Oops, I seem to have cut myself short. What I meant to say was "I can definitely make archetypes and allow non-archetypes with benchmarks."

In this type of video game, I'd recommend sticking with just the archetypes and allowing "subcategories" of archetypes as characters level up or acquire special abilities and whatnot. For a TTRPG it can go either way. Classless video games are a problem if you want both multiplier AND RPG elements because classes do such a good job defining roles for teams and roleplaying.
steelsmiter
player, 101 posts
Thu 25 Dec 2014
at 01:07
  • msg #9

Re: BESM Platformer

Arkrim:
Wait. So you're not actually making a platformer, you're just trying to make house rules for BESM that would make it FEEL more like a platformer??? Well, then I'm wasting my time and expertise flapping my yap about video games.

I'd prefer to adapt pre-existing rules in a way similar to what pre-existing books (mostly second ed) did with, for example, its book on Pokemon. Which is basically telling players what BESM thing they pick to emulate what Pokemon thing (or in this case platformer thing) they want to emulate. If I have to use houserules to make something for BESM that will emulate a specific platformer feature, I don't mind resorting to houserules, but they're secondary.

quote:
In this type of video game, I'd recommend sticking with just the archetypes and allowing "subcategories" of archetypes as characters level up or acquire special abilities and whatnot. For a TTRPG it can go either way. Classless video games are a problem if you want both multiplier AND RPG elements because classes do such a good job defining roles for teams and roleplaying.

Fair points all around.
Arkrim
GM, 290 posts
Thu 25 Dec 2014
at 07:31
  • msg #10

Re: BESM Platformer

In reply to steelsmiter (msg # 9):

I guess. I feel like I've been wasting your time. I thought we were talking video game with a TTRPG elements but we were actually talking TTRPG with house rules to make it seem a little video-gamey. >_<
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