Detection Spells/Detecting ways   Posted by GM Joe.Group: 0
GM Joe
 GM, 657 posts
Wed 12 Oct 2016
at 07:02
Detection Spells/Detecting ways
So after last game session I took a good look at the detection spells.

Wanting to know how you two are feeling about them.
Gnelson
 player, 260 posts
Wed 12 Oct 2016
at 15:59
Detection Spells/Detecting ways
I'm not sure what is prompting this question, so I don't know how to answer.
GM Joe
 GM, 658 posts
Wed 12 Oct 2016
at 20:55
Detection Spells/Detecting ways
all of the current detect spells on detecting ways (and similar lists) require concentration and can only "sense" things in a 5 foot radius that is concentrated on for a "Round". Even Detect invisibility reuires concentration for a round on 5'radius to sense anything invisible.
No higher level version of it make it easier or more productive.
Gnelson
 player, 261 posts
Thu 13 Oct 2016
at 21:43
Detection Spells/Detecting ways
I guess I feel

1.  They aren't great and
2.  I'm used to it not being great, and just accept it.

It is another example of a "failed" or "missing" mechanic in the game, much like the one about dispelling magic.  (There's no great way to dispel magic.)  But I've gotten used to this shortcoming.

So, while I would like it to be better and more useful, I've never felt sufficient outrage to motivate me to actually propose a change.
GM Joe
 GM, 659 posts
Fri 14 Oct 2016
at 03:46
Detection Spells/Detecting ways
hmm I will look at the dispelling, If I recall correctly, The dispelling spells really only negate spells directed at you? Or near you?

With the detect spells, I am looking to make a change with them.

Especially Since we use Power perception. And I am always getting confused as to which does what? Do we have it where Power perception only detects active magic? But can also tell you what realm it is?

Where The detect spells can tell you if there is Dormant spells? But don't tell you the Realm?

As I said, I am looking to make the detect spells More useful and different from Power perception.

I am also looking for suggests.

For Detect invisibility, I am thinking to change that one for sure, Allow it to "see Invisible more like the mentalist spell. I may make "See Invisible a Higher level spell and leave the lower detect Invisible.

For the Detect "Essence" and so forth, any suggestions.

I was thinking of Changing Power perception to being More like Attunement, Asign Attunemtn Directly to Activating the powers of an Item only.
Have Power perception being the ability to "delve" a spell or item to determine it's purpose/abilities and realm and so forth. I would still leave it the ability to "Sense" active power at a distance, with sight like abilities while concentrating, but at a distance, it would not detect realm, it would only detect that there is power there, until the perceive closes with the location and actively "touches" the spell matrix to delve it.

The detect spells and the newer version I intend to add greater utility to, would only detect active and inactive magic. Technically these spells already detect realm, just one at a time.


Thoughts?
Gnelson
 player, 262 posts
Fri 14 Oct 2016
at 14:03
Detection Spells/Detecting ways
I meant to bring my books with me to work so I can provide informed thoughts.  Alas, I forgot my books, so for now I guess I'll have to . . . do some actual work.

(Or I can look at the copies on RPoL; guess which option I chose?)

Some brief thoughts:

1.  I also had (and have) difficulty distinguishing between the skill and the spell.  I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one.  As I understand it, there is overlap, but considered it one of those situations (of which there are many) where a skill is occasionally more useful or more strategic than a spell.

2.  The skill would identify only active magic; the spell would identify both.  The skill would identify realm, per the write up in Comp. II.  The Power Perception write-up in Comp. II also says something about how the spells work, but it's rather cryptic.

3.  The spell would identify active and inactive magic of the realm.  As there is a detect spell for each realm, it would only identify magic of that realm.  So, if you found something using Detect Essence, what you found had to be Essence (or at least part essence, as in the case of a hybrid or arcane magic).

4.  A case can be made to leave detect invisible as it is.  The mentalist spell locates the mind of the invisible foe -- a more precise target than the general, shimmery, vague identification of "something invisible's over here" that essence might reveal.  Not that I'd stand in the way of improving the essence spell . . .

5.  I don't understand your suggested change to Power Perception.  It sounds like you're suggesting that Power Perception be used to identify the item's power (and powers), and Attunement be used to actually use the item.

(An unrelated question is whether it any skill is need to "use" an item that works automatically -- as in the case of say, a ring of protection.  But that's covered by the write-up for Attunement, and it appears to say "attunement isn't required unless the GM says it is.")

6.  If your concern is about the duration of the detect spells on Detecting Ways, here's how I thought they worked.  The duration is 1 min/lvl (C).  That means the spell lasts 1 min/lvl -- and whenever you concentrate within that time frame, you can detect.  So, I can cast and concentrate -- then move twenty feet, concentrate again . . . etc.

The area of effect is kinda . . . small, though.

7.  Other than what I've mentioned (duration, range, and overlap with Power Perception), I'm not sure I've addressed any of your concerns.
GM Joe
 GM, 660 posts
Fri 14 Oct 2016
at 15:54
Detection Spells/Detecting ways
the Main Problem with the detect spells is that they can't be used in anyway to monitor, or Defensively. As I have to stand there and concentrate on a 5' Radius area for a full round( 10 count) Before I know if there is Power being used in that area, Or an invisible foe, or other such.
I can under stand the possible idea of why they are limited at low levels, but to not have a higher level, more active version? That could be used as a security or defensive measure?
(Yes I know, I am the GM and some how I am saying "More power to the players", but things should make sense.

I can even understand the need for Concentration, But trying to find a Invisible Opponent (or ally, as Amani tried doing during the warehouse incident) is a matter of being lucky, or having to have some sort of reference point of where they might be to begin with.

I could see, also, a More powerful version of a detect essence spell being used to not if a Unknow caster is casting a spell at me, and Knowing what realm it is, so I can cast the appropriate "Cancel" or "Dispel" spell at the incoming spell. Even the Higher level spells do not allow for this "monitoring" to happen.
Eldhar
 player, 104 posts
Fri 14 Oct 2016
at 18:58
Detection Spells/Detecting ways
I have an idea from reading this discussion and looking up the relevant spells:

My thought is that any "higher level" detection spell or similar ability could provide a narrow field of enhanced senses (i.e.: seeing invisible objects,creatures, etc). In the flip side, I would consider either a 5' wide line in front of the caster or a 45-degree "focused arc" of enhanced sensory perception.

I could see balancing this increased perception with a "tunnel vision" drawback; for example: one's Perception is decreased outside the focused area (say, at a -10 within the areas between the 45- and 90-degree arcs, with a -25 to Perception outside of the larger vision cone).

Any enhanced sensory abilities will be useful to the group as a whole, but will require teamwork to utilize our various spells and/or abilities safely and efficiently.
GM Joe
 GM, 661 posts
Sat 15 Oct 2016
at 00:07
Detection Spells/Detecting ways
Thanks for the input Eldhar, something useful there  I think.
Though
quote:
In the flip side, I would consider either a 5' wide line in front of the caster or a 45-degree "focused arc" of enhanced sensory perception.
Technically already is in play since you have to concentrate to use it. Thus any attempt to do another action suffers the concentration penalty