In reply to Haveron Stormwal (msg # 559):

I have blasty magic! Pew, pew!

Well I thinmk blasty magic will do the trick :)


Good job you're in Haveron's group! you can blast stuff without fear of being killed :)
This message was last edited by the player at 22:01, Mon 11 Dec 2017.

In reply to Haveron Stormwal (msg # 561):

Fire magic, backed up by a little necromancy for those lazy ass guards who think they can shirk their duty due to a little death!
This message was last edited by the player at 23:42, Mon 11 Dec 2017.

In reply to Gareth (msg # 562):

I can understand Mages not getting silver coated weapons, but what about everyone else?

Fine, Balanced silver coated weapons (all +1 to hit, +1 damage, included below) such as the following should be regular fare signature gear for undead hunters!

Long Knife $1200 Sw cut/thr+1 imp 1.5 lbs
Spear      $360  thr+3 imp        4 lbs (One handed!)
Pick       $630  Sw+2 imp         3 lbs
Axe        $750  Sw+3 cut         4 lbs

Or at least a Fine, Balanced Silver (Not silver coated) light club for $130, 3 lbs, +1 chance of breakage, Sw+1 cr damage for those with the broadsword skill only!

Well I went for Orichalcum, which makes a fine weapon although not one that affects Undead much; of course there weren't many undead around when I created Oly.

You've got a Silver weapon?  I thought our Narrator was talking about the ninja-turtle-talking Chye Isuel who picked up Silvered Nunchaks.
This message was last edited by the player at 00:02, Tue 12 Dec 2017.

Chye has some iron nunchaku with silver inlaid dragons, and furnishings.

HAH!  And here Jareth shows his secret Elven Ninja Posting skills!

Well, Silver coated Axe, as above.

If he picked them up, he did not start with them. I think Narrator was talking about starting weapons. We are all brilliant strategists after we have met the critters we could not kill! Lol, Hindsight always comes too late...

Well, I reckon Haveron's sword is magical.

So we can cut demons nad undead and monsters down with that too :)

Hey, some of us are on a budget.  I couldn't even afford my Cornucopia quiver with the new enchantment rules, never mind if it produced $40 silver tipped arrows instead of $2 common ones.  Not much call for silver when you're guarding a shop, anyway.

But that's more to do with the fixing of the previously broken Enchantment rules.  And a second reason to carry a back up quiver...

(the first being Low and No Mana Zones)

In reply to Jareth Mooncalled (msg # 571):

I got one of them too...you mean they have gone up?

Gosh, I should get a copy of the updated DF rules shouldn't I...

We've shifted to using the DFRPG rules, in which there is no 1$/point price break for 'Quick and Dirty' Enchantment, it's all the 20$/point of 'Slow and Sure'.

Got it!

Oh hey, they fixed the thing with wizards knowing random spells that probably should be restricted to clerics.

They put out a patch for that a long time ago, but not everyone bought that issue of Pyramid.  This just set that fix into stone and then made some more 'fixes'.

How close is the new DFRPG to 'Dungeon Fantasy' books? I've got a lot of the DF ones, but not the new game that was put out.

Sorry.  I meant "We've shifted to DFRPG pricing for magic Items".  I think...

I know we're suing templates from both DF and DFRPG (and still doing free-form characters).  We're still using the full flavor of the Martial Arts maneuvers rainbow.  And Ads and Disads from Basic.  And skills that DFRPG think are useless*.  Etc.

I want to say that Narrator has switched over to Magic Items and Armor/Weapons from DFRPG, which is just 20$/point Enchanting, 66$/point Alchemical, and Low-Tech pricing and weight for 'mundane' gear.

But I'm not sure.  I'd have to reread this thread:
link to a message in this game

And have neither the time nor the desire right now.

For whatever it's worth, I never considered wizards being able to learn healing spells as "broken".  I preferred having "clerical magic" be a subset of "all magic" -- and different religions having different clerical spell lists (why would priests of Set care about healing spells?).  Even if you want to limit true healing to priests (which seems silly -- Aragorn wasn't a priest, and neither was Gandalf, but both of them had healing arts, as did Elrond), it doesn't make sense to prevent mages from learning the rest of the spells in the same sub-family with Lend Energy and Recover Energy (Share Energy, at least, as well as Lend Vitality and Share Vitality).  If you're going to go that direction, necromancers should be priests, too (and the ones in the Conan books were) -- their spells overlap with healing.

As for the cost of enchantment, I liked that the way it was, too.  Q&D works up to the amount your caster and assistants can cast with only their own FP (and HP, if they're willing to accept the penalties) and one powerstone each, and that's done in just the ritual casting time for the spell being added to an item.  If you want to limit magic items, then limit the size of powerstones.  DF has eliminated powerstones entirely, anyway (along with manastones, both replaced with personal power items), so the Q&D limit is effectively the FP total of the casters (get into HP and the skill penalties can bollix things up pretty quickly).  Circle size has a limit, too, both from the number of enchanters in a limited region and from the -1 skill per "assistant".  All those factors let the GM tailor the break point from Q&D, $1/FP, to S&S at $20/FP.

As things stand now, just getting a Staff spell cast on a stick will cost you $500 -- since Staff is an enchantment and there's no more Q&D.  Used to be, any enchanter with a couple assistants could cast Staff several times a day (once an hour, if they all have Recover Energy at skill 20).

One of the things I've enjoyed about GURPS for the past thirty years is that it isn't dungeon fantasy.  It doesn't have to be divided up into penned-in classes.  Gandalf used a sword, too -- unless someone's going to try to tell me Glamdring was actually a staff.  The Gray Mouser was a perfectly capable sorcerer when he could get hold of a spell, but he was far better known for his skill with lockpicks and with his rapier and dagger (Needle and Cat's Claw).

I'm okay playing DF, just as I'd be okay playing D&D if there was a local group who didn't want to play GURPS, but I'm not likely to spend money on DFRPG, any more than I'll buy D&D books.  I am interested in learning how RPM and its offshoots (Sorcery, for instance) work, because I very much like the idea of different kinds of magic that work differently (big fan of Lawrence Watt-Evans), but they seem to be based on rules from Powers that never made any sense to me, and I'm not at all sure they're balanced against Magic (Powers certainly isn't).

In reply to Ardenas Barehand (msg # 579):

aragorn was a ranger above third level, so he had access to druid spells, including cure light wounds xD

I like the basic madic system. I have rpm and to me it is as bad as vehicles was. Incantation magic and sorcery are interesting, but make spellcasting crazy expensive.

Haveron, your family heirloom sword is not magical, just fine, ornate and balanced.

Anyone can slap on a lens and get out of range abilities from their original template

Com jo, per exemple!

Eh... actually, Staff is the one (and only one) Enchantment still at 1$ per point in DFRPG.

Becuase DFRPG doesn't tell you the points, just the costs, and an Staff Enchanted with Staff is 100$.


I know, I know...



Nothing stopping Wizards in DF from learning Swording skills.


No he wasn't.  He was a garbage mage.  Sure, give him a scroll and he'd muddle along from it, but I'd at best give him Thaumatology of no better than 10 in GURPS standards.  He'd have it at Default with the Dabbler Perk most likely.




RPM is Energy Accumulation.  You have Thaumatology and a set of magic Path Skills that determine your capacity at putting together ritual magic.  With the right Advantages you can whip up spells in about 10-30 seconds (every 'time unit'* you make a Gathering Energy roll and either eventually gather the energy needed to cast the spell or fail or fail spectacularly), faster with pre-cast 'hung' spells stored as Charms (which are single cast use objects).  It's really no more exp expensive than Spells as Skills (Basic Magic).

* Once per five minutes without the Ritual Adept Advantage, once per 5 seconds with it.  Both type (Adepts and non-Adepts) can speed this up by taking penalties, down to 1 roll per second.  So if you're really skilled, and casting a really cheap spell, you can cast it in 1 sec.  this however is not the norm as, for instance, a 3d Fireball spell is 18 energy.

Advantages:  It's a very flexible magic system, allowing ritualists to develop new rituals on the fly.
Disadvantages:  It's a very flexible magic system, allowing ritualists to develop new rituals on the fly.


Incantations are... ahhh... Time Accumulation Rituals.  You build the ritual the same as with RPM, but instead of determining how much Energy it takes, you determine how much time it takes.  The average 3d Fireball is 5 minutes to cast.  Period.  Incanters get around these long cast times by preparing their spells in advance... as Spell Slots, just like f-ing D&D Wizards, which I find... repelling.  They can also store them as Infusions (potions) and Scripts (scrolls).  Also not really any more exp heavy than standard Magic.

Advantage/Disadvantage:  See above, but less likely to have a an Incanter trying out new rituals in the midst of combat.


Sorcery is straight up Powers/Advantages as Spells.  Want a Fireball spell?  It's built as Innate Attack.  Sorcery is bloody handed exp expensive.  The average starting DF Sorcery is probably packing around 10-15 spells.  However, it's fast and FP cheap.

Ads:  Fast to cast, FP cheap.
Disad:  Exp expensive, narrow spellcasting choices in the beginning (not a broad range of spells on the sheet).





What?  No.

He obviously had Herbalism at 76% or higher and had Healing Arts spells.  As per the proper system to run Middle Earth in... MERP.

If Staff were still Q&D, it'd be $35 for a quarterstaff with Staff spell (using basic set price for the staff itself, my GCS files don't show a staff in the DF equipment list), less for something like a baton or classic wand (as long as it's just a plain stick or pointer before the enchantment starts).  That's $10 for the actual staff, and $25 for the Staff spell.  Either there's been terrible inflation of the price of a 6 foot stick heavy enough to stand up to a drubbing, or the Staff spell is in a Neverland between Q&D and S&S.

I also slightly dislike hiding the mechanics of enchantment by making enchantment an NPC function.  I know, it's all about emulating something roughly between OD&D and AD&D -- but I virtually quit playing those when GURPS became available.  The most interesting character in my Whiteharbor game (geographically set in Seattle, but the New World had been colonized by an old believer Norse prophet and a mixed crew in the 12th century).

In any case, bottom line is I like the magic system as it's evolved since the late 1980s, and I don't see the gain in altering it to make a game more like OD&D or AD&D (in which, if you recall, there weren't NPC enchanters, either, generally -- you got magic items by taking them off dead enemies, and never had a clue where they got them.