DFRPG adjustments?   Posted by Narrator.Group: 0
Narrator
 GM, 4424 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Tue 19 Sep 2017
at 16:20
DFRPG adjustments?
I am grandfathering in quite a few things. I like the new bard, and some of the ready power ups.
Races, in particular  I am keeping, with the following  caveats;
All catfolk are Sahudese, and races must come out of 250 starting points.
New charactets that follow templates are to follow the new version.

Spells: I like creation spells and I want necromancers to have the ability to make zeds. In 3e, ally group covered how many mooks you could have easily, because ally group was built on the points of the allies, not scaled proportionately to the character as in 4e. I am surprised by the volume of gate related spells, but if the expectation is world hopping, it retroactively makes sense that allies are always present and that enemy and sometimes reputations or duties are out.

Things changing now: no more custom elementals. You need enough wood to build a bonfire in order to conjure a fire elemental and control rolls need be made every effective half hour or they leave/dissipate, AND they need fuel regularly. There are enough varieties in Summoners.
Elementals wear no armor, and carry no backpacks. That would be golems.

Speaking of golems, I have been treating them as valuable property, as suggested in Magic. Signature gear more or less equals ally in points... in the future they will be allies. but custom golems must be justified. Chris has DR 10, but the default DR of a clay golem is 0, and stone golems have only 4. So Chris is wearing layered armor, padded plus scale plus plate or something to that effect and is going to be a little slower, and about 75 lbs heavier.
Narrator
 GM, 4427 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Tue 19 Sep 2017
at 18:08
DFRPG adjustments?
Languages: I like having distinct regional common tounges, with Aral being common, and Valdassyan, Shevnian, and Sahudese being separate. I dislike orcish as the common tongue for gobblekin, and here is my view on Ancient: Malga'Mar 's latin and greek could become this, but I have this proto elven language called Eldrich, which most Thaumatological writing is in...it is closer to Elder than Ancient, and currently only Chou-Zhen Mou, Jareth Mooncalled, and Dareos Madrigar speak it, (it is Dark One).

Latin I was looking at as being the liturgical language of the Church of the One True Tripartate God, you know the religion that has goblins in the cathedral and an abbey full of wights and doombrats? That one. It has been used for many occult chronicles, but since this history does not have Constantine converting, the church is only one of many, and even Angels get iffy about who they serve...
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 893 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Tue 19 Sep 2017
at 22:54
DFRPG adjustments?
Doesn't sound as if players will need to buy the DFRPG book unless they're creating characters, perhaps not then?  I've got PDFs of a few of the old DF books, the ones I've needed, and I'm not very prone to getting everything related to DF/DFRPG, because my own preference is for a bit less "retro" game.  If I ever have time to run my own campaign again, that is...
Oly
 player, 928 posts
 Badly disfigured face
 Rank 1 Guild badge
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 02:05
DFRPG adjustments?
I have some of the DF output, I prefer GURPS, but will try and get the boxed set so I can play along.
Christine Bjorn
 player, 1249 posts
 blue haired
 mountain elf
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 06:48
DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Oly (msg # 4):

Christine, Gareth and Kirpich seem the main character effected. I assume all agreed custom elementals still exist? Also, since Chunky, Kirpichs' ally, was an elemental specifically designed to carry stuff, we will need to work out if he has changed, and if so, how. Can we also go over the stat changes with Chris, especially given he has seen combat several times in the past.
Jareth Mooncalled
 player, 1183 posts
 Dirty High Elf Sage
 HP: 9/9 FP: 9/10
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 07:45
DFRPG adjustments?
My Hot take:

I'd switch over to DFRPG for the spells, and then adapt spells you need over.  Just try to 'realign' them to the new costs, durations, etc.

I have to read more into the DFRPG to see if I'd allow for Power-Ups and abilities from outside of it (personally).

But off the top I can say I'm not overly impressed with Holy Warriors.

Narrator:
New charactets that follow templates are to follow the new version.

So... are you still allowing characters to be made that aren't from, or that simply "color outside the lines" of, a template?

I'm still not sure what the drawback is to doing that.

quote:
Spells: I like creation spells...

Aside from Create Servant, Create Warrior, Create Animal, Create Mount, and Create Item what are missing that you need?

And note, that with a slight rethinking of Phantom, you can cover all the above spells (except Item).... just not quite as cheaply.

But I can also see importing those spells and adjusting them to align with the DFRPG Spells.

quote:
I want necromancers to have the ability to make zeds.

Honestly... on this one I'd just make it:

Raise Zombie:  Ally (Built on 10% [0.4];  12 or less [x2]; Summonable, +100%; Requires and Uses Dead Bodies, -20%; Minion, +0%; PM, -10%) [2]

Undead Minions:  Allies (Five servitor skeletons or zombies; Built on 10%; 15 or less†; Minion, +0%; PM, -10%) [6], (10 servitors) [7], or (20 servitors) [9]

Necromancers uses the Raise Zombie spell to fill out his ranks, and if he has too many Zombies (more than his Ally group covers) he just starts losing them as they wander off, fall apart, etc.  And of course Costs Fatigue and takes extra time can be added to make the "Raise" spell less character points.

†  This is to determine if his Ally group survives between missions.  Obviously NPCs can have Zs be around as long you like, but PCs need some limitors.

For Elementals I'd just use the Elemental Ally from Summoners.


Alternately, if you want to keep the Raise*, Summon, Command, Turn, Bind spells as skills... then I'd change Summon Spirit to Summon (Spirit) (meaning specialized choosing from Ghosts, Elementals, Demons (Divine Unholy), Angels (Divine Holy), etc), and than do the same with Command (Spirit)†, Entrap Spirits, Repel Spirits, Sense Spirits, and Turn Spirits.  Also change the prereqs for the Elemental versions to their Elements and Divine Holy/Unholy to the Gate college maybe (or honestly I'd leave those as Power Investure, so Divine Spirit folk are the realm of Clerics only).

Have Spirits hang around longer (for free) on Good reaction rolls and then just make a new Reaction Roll every [TIME] interval (half hour?  Base Magic is generally an hour).

Sense (Ghost) would of course sense Incorporeal, including incorporeal Demons.

* Obviously you have add in Raise Zombie.
† The only difference here is to actually allow those types for Command (Spirit) as it's already a specialized spell.

Narrator:
Languages

I'd obviously like to get a list of all the languages...  at some point...  also obviously I think you should keep doing Languages as you have.  I think switching to the simplified DFRPG version would be a waste.


Ardenas Barehand:
Doesn't sound as if players will need to buy the DFRPG book unless they're creating characters, perhaps not then?  I've got PDFs of a few of the old DF books, the ones I've needed, and I'm not very prone to getting everything related to DF/DFRPG, because my own preference is for a bit less "retro" game.  If I ever have time to run my own campaign again, that is...

Not sure I'd call DFRPG a "retro" game.

It has a lot less "Hey we only hack and slash!" vibe than DF does, in fact it calls out going on quests.  However it still wants to simplify town into a 2-dimensional backdrop... but then that's what DF does and it's not like that isn't ignorable.
Ardenas Barehand
 player, 894 posts
 Human martial artist with
 a few spells on the side.
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 08:46
DFRPG adjustments?
Honestly, my head is about to explode just from reading that last post, Jareth.  It sounds to me as if DFRPG is SJ Games's take on Hero System.  I never did really understand Powers, and it's starting to look like everything in GURPS is going to work like Powers (or Ritual Path Magic, to pick a similar book that came out in 3rd Ed.) -- new rules material is all about "here's how to caculate new [stuff], but we're only going to actually give you four examples, after that you're on your own."

To me, it seems like just a way to shove the behind-the-curtain stuff into the face of the GM and players.  Yes, balance is good, but I like having a big bunch of skills, spells, etc. to choose from without loading all of that work onto the players or GM.  The ability to just pick up the books and *play* is what, in my mind, separated GURPS from Hero System.
Narrator
 GM, 4428 posts
 DM says
 roll for initiative!
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 12:18
DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Christine Bjorn (msg # 5):

The mechanical form of Chris's DR and encumberance is all that is being altered. DR was an addable feature using magic. Appendix z, which I now use for golem weights and costs has a base DR per material. You have armor equal to the DR at the signature gear rate, which I may have to calculate but it will be DR 10,the expenditure may cover orichalcum for weight reduction, or even enchantment with lighten.

The divine earth elemental ally is pretty much the same as the one from Heavy Metal 2- tiny and not particularly strong.
No more fists of Grom, I have a list of about 6 elemental types.
There is also a flying fireball elemental type that I will use for cracker and the like.  I know you put in some work to build these, but I'd rather use the standard templates.


As to zombies, I looked at :paid for magery with points, paid for skill with points, paid for casting with FP and had to make a roll, wtf more need you pay?

I could put the 24 hour limit on them, unless you pay points for ally, they fall apart.
Gareth
 player, 146 posts
 Odd Character
 Smokin' Human
Wed 20 Sep 2017
at 13:01
DFRPG adjustments?
In reply to Narrator (msg # 8):

Ok. And Gareths fire imps? he was looking for something small and very cheap to create, cheaper than the existing ones, and smaller possibly...