Okay, cool.  Thanks again :)

After some delay due to a very nasty cold and recovery I shall attend to posting for those who are indisposed today, nl: Ceba and Phelan.

Glad you're feeling better :)

Yes glad you feel better. I have a question. Is the spirit still lingering there. And do I need preform ritual to interact with the spirit?

Spirits will linger until banished or there is some melding of the spirit and material world.  Normally the material world wears on the manifestation of spirits until they retreat to the spirit world.

We'll be joined shortly be a new Player named Sardis, its been a while since I've added someone so I hope to gods I remembered how to do it correctly.  X3

Hello all :)

So I'll offer the same details I provided the GM, as I'll be seeking assistance and patience/understanding :)



Late note: I realize I made an error in that post to the GM...that should read 30+ years (LOL).

All that having been said, it's my understanding that this group has need of a 'controller', so I'm thinking either a wizard or an Invoker.

Thoughts on the best way to go with reasons: and go!

Hi!

I have to say, that's some rp pedigree you have there :O

We're definitely lacking on AoE and CC, so I think a Controller is good choice.

Some things to note about learning the game, here:

1 - This game has a lot of Homebrewed content, most notably the races but also some smaller things like currency.

2 - In my experience play by post games, especially those as established as this one tend to progress slowly.  They are certainly no comparison to playing the game at a table or in realtime (or as near as) in such places as Roll20.  Though 4E is one of the least popular versions of D&D, as I understand it, so finding a game on there may be difficult.

Otherwise welcome aboard :D

EDIT: @Author Does Willa get the xp for the end of the encounter too?  She was absent for basically all of it, but didn't get any for her own little, uh, excursion.  I mean, I assume so since we have 'normalised' xp across the group, but you know me - I've a little bit of OCD about being sure about these things :P Thanks!
This message was last edited by the player at 14:11, Sat 21 July 2018.

Hello indeed! Welcome to the game!

Controller-wise I would recommend an invoker. Less prone to friendly fire issues; 4E doesn’t have vancianc saying so wizard’s superiority is less prevalent in that aspect. If you have questions, I actively play both Pathfinder and 4E so I can make comparisons as needed.
L

Any suggestions as to which of the homebrew races would pair best with the invoke?

@Willa:  Oh she gets xp too, its basically her share for the other worldly experience she had.

EDIT: Jubei's player is out of his country for a week so he can't resolve his scene until next week.  So I'd suggest you guys take other actions while we let the spirit shenanigans be resolved when he gets back.
This message was last edited by the GM at 15:57, Mon 23 July 2018.

Invoker
I have never played an Invoker before.  Let's see:

Stats (Primary Wisdom, Secondary Con or Int)
I think I'd favour Wisdom and Int.  Our Author likes his skill challenges.  Though obviously, a high Con gives you much more survivability.

HP:
Low

Defences:
Good
+1 to Fort, Reflex and Will.
Chainmail Armour

Skills:
Not too many trained, but (as stated above) favouring both Intellect and Wisdom is nice

Divine Covenants:
Maledictor's Doom (Any Secondary Stat) - Seems powerful and could couple well with Willa who uses fear attacks a lot.  Range is a bit short for someone with so little hp.  Luckily we have a giant of a tank and it only targets enemies.

Preserver's Rebuke (Int Secondary Stat): Good range, To hit bonus is fine.  Virtually guaranteed to be useable each encounter.  Probably the most reliable of the channel divinities.

Armour of Wrath (Con Secondary Stat): A poor 'escape' with a little damage. Situational.  Can't say I like it.

At Will Attacks
Astral Wind (Benefits from high Con).
+Decent damage for a Controller. +Couples with Willa's Dire Radiance.
-Short Range. -Targets Fortitude. -Targets everything in the AOE.

Avenging Light (Benefits from high Con).
+Decent Range. +Decent Damage. +Basic Attack.
-Targets Fortitude*. -Offers no 'Controller' support

Divine Bolts
+Decent Range. +Decent Damage when used on 2 targets. +Targets Reflex
-Does not offer much in the way of 'Controller' support (just hits 2 targets)

Grasping Shards
+Decent Range. +AOE. +Great Controller support (slows those it hits)
-Targets Fortitude.  -Low damage.

Hand of Radiance
+Decent Range. +Targets Reflex. +No real drawbacks
Okay Damage.  Limited Controller support (Just targeting 3 creatures)

Mantle of the Infidel
+Huge Range.  +Targets Will. +Couples well with Iron Jubei.
-Single Target only

Sun Strike
+Decent Range.  +Targets Reflex.  +Basic Attack. +Slides Target. +Reasonable Damage
-Single Target only

Vanguard's Lightning (Benefits form high Intelligence)
+Decent range. +AOE.  +Targets Reflex.
Very situational Controller Support (Punishes enemy Opportunity Attacks)

Visions of Blood
+Targets Will. +Decent Controller Support.  +Psychic Damage.** Fear Attack***
-Short Range. -Targets everything in the AOE.

*Targeting Fortitude is not awful but, generally speaking, its one of the consistently higher defences.
**Psychic damage is normally one of the least likely resisted damage types
***You get a bonus to attack rolls on abilities with the Fear keyword if you choose to play as an Umbrean

Damage types: most At Wills are radiant, next is lightning, with a single psychic attack.

Races:
Deseekay:  They have +Wisdom which is great, but lack any bonus to secondary stats.  Die Hard is very nice for any character, but less so for those hoping to go under the enemy's radar.  Both Vital Surge and Breath of Life are just a fantastic abilities imo, though it is the latter that most favours a leader/supporter role.  The one per encounter extra shift distance could be awesome.

Optional Racial Feats: Nothing really game changing for a controller.  Added mobility from Greater Grace of the Wild is nice.

Appearance: A man with a horse's head.  Like a minotaur, but less horny.

Doola Tywuar: Do not support primary stat.  Do have a boost to Con. Ferocious is very nice for someone hoping not to draw too much attention from the enemy.  Dragon's Roar is a decent get out of jail free card and could couple well with Astral Wind if you used an Action surge.

Optional Racial Feats: Again, nothing amazing.

Appearance: Dragonborn-esque?

Ehuron: Support your primary stat (no matter what it is).  No secondary stat support.  Very nice bonus to Fort, Ref and Will saves.  Living construct is fine.  Customisation is awesome.  Resilience is fine.  Oversoul and Gadgetry may lack the obvious power of some other racial abilities, but can turn the battle if used well.

Optional Racial Feats: I like them all to be honest.  Nothing that will really benefit a controller too much, but they're all just generally strong.

Appearance: Advanced and sleek robotic design constructed from overlapping plates.

Human: No primary stat boost, but supports either of your secondary stats.  Other racials are very general - useful to anyone but not really favouring any particular role.

Optional Racial Feats: Again, both good.  Knight of Atorius for a Boost to Wisdom makes this race a much more viable invoker.

Appearance: Horrific mutant bipeds with skin tones ranging from very pale, through the orange/tan spectrum, to basically black.  Sporting patches of hair and a penchant for being absolutely everywhere.

Kaetyma: No primary stat support.  Boost to Con.  They are large creatures, so not really good for classes trying to stay out of the limelight.  Unhindered speed is potentially useful for helping to avoid facing enemies up close, but their size is too detrimental imo.  Either Dragon's Breath or Dragon's Fury would be a nice addition to any Controller's arsenal.

Optional Racial Feats: Enlarged Dragon Breath is fantastic if you have that power, however:

SPECIAL NOTE: I was wondering, Author, if you considered adding the other Dragonborn Breath attack racials to the Kaetyma.  The best one by far (no pun intended) for a controller would be Hurl Breath.

Appearance: A Dragontaur (Like a centaur but 100 times cooler) with some colourful feathers thrown in (because they weren't awesome enough already)

Musadi: No primary stat support, but can boost both secondary stats.  Like Kaetyma are large and therefore difficult to recommend for anyone that isn't a front-line fighter.  Prescience is fantastic for a controller who wants to take their turn asap in combat, though initiative and turn order is handled a little differently in this RPOL game.  Vitality is a good alternative too.  Shifting coils has a lot of Controller utility, but would be risky for one to use as it means exposing yourself to danger.  Better saved for defenders.  Serpent's sway looks amazing to me, however.

Optional Racial Feats: From the Deep is great.  Leviathan's gift actually has its place for a Controller - it would make your AOEs much more devastating against groups of opponents for one turn, but it is severely hampered by being a daily power.

Appearance: A Giant Naga/Salamander like creature (Snake Tail, human-like but scaly torso and a reptilian head).

Narayah: Supports both Primary stat and secondary (as long as its intelligence).  Archetype is 'cute' :D Resistance to Psychic Damage is kinda unique and awesome.  Multitasking seems like it could be fantastic for a controller, though I don't know enough about Invokers to say for certain.  Nimble Reversal seems...okay.  Its a good dodge, but moves you in the direction the attack came from.  Tanslocation seems really powerful in the right situation.

Optional Racial Feats: Able combatant is outrageously good and critter combat training is decent.

Appearance: One of the two small races and the second best of them (no bias here!).  Looks like a raccoon and a fox had a baby, with some red panda genes thrown in.  Bipedal.

Ulh: Supports both Primary stat and secondary (as long as its Constitution).  None of its racials look to benefit a controller, not that they hinder them either.

SPECIAL NOTE: Making use of all you've got used to be an umbrean ability.  I'm not sure if it got moved to Ulh and the skill names weren't changed or it is listed there in error.  Clarification, Author?

Optional Racial Feats: Subversive Will is a brilliant controller power.

Appearance: A white lion man.

Umbrean: Supports both Primary stat and secondary (as long as its intelligence).  Disquiet - from what I've seen you can go heavily into fear with an Invoker, so this could be really good for you.  The rest of the racials are pretty meh and, imo, the useable abilities are little underpowered compared to other races.  Taking advantage is still good though and nice for a controller.

Optional Racial Feats:
Emulation - could good for a pluraton if Umbreans really are still meant to have 'making use of all you've got' but is probably not worth the feat it costs since you can only have 1 power available at any given time.
Shared Awareness is pretty nice.
Unnoticed has the potential to be very powerful, though is better suited to something like a rogue.


Appearance: living snot with arms, legs and eyestalks.

Weaver:
Crafter Caste: Supports Primary stat. Suffers from large size.

Soldier Caste: Supports Primary and Secondary Stats (as long as its Con).  Suffers from large size.

Monarch: Supports Primary Stat only, but is still probably the best option due to it being medium size.

Harmony maybe the most overpowered ability in the class abilities, but only really when there are two weavers.  Its still really good without, though its range is small.   Necromorphosis is extremely powerful as well.  Weaver Toxin is alright, but not something you want to be in a position to use.

Racial Feats:
Flying Leap has its uses, but may not be worth the feat cost.
Hardened Carapace is really good.
I think Mimicry could be amazing, but there are so many conditions attached to it, its hard to judge how often it would actually be useable.

Current Situation:
Our current group consists of 1 Deseekay (Drex), 1 Kaetyma (Iron Jubei), 2 Narayahs (Phelan Drixons and Cebakaala) and 1 Umbrean (Willa).  IIRC We have previously met a Doola, a Musadi, an Ehuron and another Umbrean.
We are currently inside a complex that has been sealed for hundreds of years, making it difficult to justify the presence of many of the races.  However, there is a sizeable Narayah contingent outside and much machinery (meaning a Ehuron may be feasible?).


Overall
Considering all of the above, I'd say its best to go for either Narayah* or Ehuron.  You could go Umbrean too, though I doubt many people would like the idea of rp-ing a disgusting blob.

*I personally think that Narayah are generally the most powerful of all the races, so don't find it surprising that they're topping my list.  However, I'd personally still choose Ehuron - for setting and aesthetic reasons.

Disclaimer:
This is all my opinion and I may be way off with my assessments.  As I said, I've not played an Invoker before.

Hi Sardis! Hope you enjoy our game and compony! We do tend to have waves of active play and slumps in play as well. I think we're at the end of one of those slumps. (well at least in my perspective)
But it seems to work for us and our lifestyles. Seeing this game is still going strong for about 6 years now @Author?

Willa...thank you very much for the lengthy, detailed response...I'll await Author's response to your questions so that I may make a better informed decision :)

And Drex, thank you for the welcome...I look forward to playing alongside all of you :)

Right. Invoker advice.

First off, our GM is fairly gentle so you shouldn't feel the need to powerbuild as much, so racial options are a bit more open. That said, a bit of a primer to support Willa's information.

There are three convenants to the Invoker. Wrath, Malediction, and Preservation.

The Wrath Invoker uses Constitution as a secondary score, and will be favouring heavier armour as a result. The riders on their powers tend to favour extra damage, putting you in the role of a Striker-secondary. You end up like a blaster cleric in Pathfinder.

The Preservation Invoker uses Intelligence as a secondary score, and will end up favouring light armour (4E has highest of Dex or Int for AC). Their riders lean toward a support archetype, boosting defences or sliding allies around, a bit like a Leader. Or, again, a Pathfinder Cleric in concept.

The Malediction Invoker can use Intelligence or Constitution as a secondary. Their riders tend to reduce the drawbacks for using some powers (as those powers can be powerful, but usually debuff you as a result).

Armor of Wrath is a fairly lacklustre Channel Divinity, incidentally.
Maledictor's Doom will work well with Willa (and also with Phelan later on).
Preserver's Rebuke continues the stereotype of Preservers being supportive in that it's, well, supportive and a reliable choice.

Do note that divine characters have access to Domain feats (Drex is using one as I recall), which will boost their at-wills in some way. Divine Bolt, for example, can be used as a ranged basic attack (which is important with some synergies) via the Skill domain feat.

I will recommend you pick one 'targeted' At-Will (like Hand of Radiance) and one area-effect At-will (such as Visions of Blood).

Is someone able to PM me a blank character sheet?

Also, what level is this campaign?

So, race aside for the moment...as far as invoker goes...my first basic decision will need to be whether I want 'leader' or 'striker' to be my secondary role.

So, not knowing the group dynamics...which secondary roll would be more useful to the groups current dynamics?

@Sardis:  You should have access to the character sheet in the group book I invited you a few days ago.  I checked and saw for some reason you could only view, I gave you editing permissions, you'll find the tab for your character in the row below, next to the other PCs.  You level will match that of the party which presently is 4. I'd say hear what Phelan has to say about your secondary role.  But I'd wager a secondary leader won't go amiss.

@Everyone:  Craig illuminated some things I've missed in the Char book over the months making changes and I've corrected them.  All mentions of advantage (that isn't combat advantage) has so far been removed (which I could find) and replaced with the usual bonuses and penalties (+2 and -2).

Feat Emulation:  Got a small rework to make it viable and useful but limit it as well.

And yes Kaetyma may make use of dragon breath feats usually restricted to the Dragon born in 4e.  I simply haven't added them all to this book yet.  As I only looked at the PHB for feats.  So any additional suggestions for feats are welcome!
This message was lightly edited by the GM at 09:11, Tue 24 July 2018.

@Author

Thank you :)

So, as I read the changes, making use of all you've got is now gone entirely, being rolled up into the pluraton description instead.  It also reads as though Pluratons can now use two racial encounter powers per combat.  If so, that is pretty big and completely accounts for the relative weakness of easing their pain and psychic parasite. It may even be overpowered, especially combined with emulation.

What happens if a singleton takes Emulation, or is it specifically Pluraton only?  If you don't have an answer to that, I'd suggest making it Pluraton only.

If an Umbrean took Dragon Breath from Emulation, would they then also be able to access the Dragon Breath feats?

For that matter can an Umbrean even Emulate a power that needs a decision to be made 'at character creation'?  If they can, must the Umbrean emulate it at character creation or could they still pick it up later?

@Sardis I don't think it really matters whether you go leader or striker.  Just decide which you'd rather do - deal damage or enable others to do so.  There is a nice rule in 4E that lets you make 1 power/feat/skill change to your character every time you level up, in case you don't like the decision you made.  So you could adjust on the fly.  Though I suspect you'll still be restricted somewhat by your covenant and attribute choices.

As for the group, I feel we have some decent single target damage, but might lack AoE.  Willa has two Encounter powers, but one of those is relatively expensive to use (normally requiring her to expend both the power itself and an encounter utility power).  I feel that she also lacks the hitting power of other warlocks, since I've been prioritising her hit chance for reliability over everything else (I hate missing almost* more than anything else).

Otherwise, there's rarely a fight when someone does not fall unconscious or at least take a beating so anything you can do to help our front-liners would be nice.  Especially, if it potentially frees up Phelan to make more use of his thoroughly awesome 'Magic Weapon' at will.

*Loss of character control is the actual worst :P

ok...so I'm currently thinking going with a Malediction Invoker.  Thoughts on the following stat array (22pts):

Str 11
Dex 12
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 16
Cha  8

Seems good.  You'll have a nice base for skills with a rounded attribute distribution.  Plus, you still have any racial bonuses to add, as well as the 2 points gained at level 4.

Just to repeat what Phelan said before:  Dex doesn't affect AC or Reflex defences whilst you have a higher Intellect.  It will still buff skills and initiative though.

If you are interested in having a character with a decent base for skills, the Feat 'Jack of all trades' is available to characters with high Intellect and buffs all untrained skills by 2.  Willa has it because she always seems to do badly in the skill tests.

On the subject of feats, at level 4 you should have 3.  Unless you are one of the races that can provide a 4th (Ehuron or Human, I think).

I would recommend taking an expertise for the implement you are planning to use.  It will add +1 to hit per Tier with powers used through that implement.  There are a number available and usually come with an additional benefit too.

Willa has some sound advice Sardis.

I appreciate all the advice and am working on it...unfortunately I worked all day and had to go to a union meeting tonight that ran about 3 hours.  I'm off Friday, so hoping to get a lot done then.

Would the following be a better array for this character:

Str 13
Dex 10
Con 14
Int 14
Wis 16
Cha  8

Ah, there is something potentially very important that I have been forgetting about!  So there is something else that your attributes do that is kind of an 'under the hood' thing.  They determine what feats you have access too.  Unfortunately, I do not know every single feat in the game let alone their requirements or what would be good for the invoker.  Luckily, someone has already done all the legwork:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/s...-Invokers-(By-Cazzeo)

I think such a guide has been written for every class and they can be really helpful.  Generally, I find everything they say to be common sense and they lean heavily towards min-maxing, but it is always nice to have second opinion.

There are some sample builds on the second page, though the stats have already been adjusted for racial bonuses.

Sorry for not thinking about all this before.

Otherwise, I think your attribute distribution looks nice.

@all, I'm asking permission to spend half a fortune token on mundane components for my next roll.