Speaking just for myself, I do hope that the Daleks do come back at some point, perhaps in a much reduced state, similar to how they were in Eccleston and most of Tennant's run. The Daleks figure hugely in Trav's back story, but she has yet to see one since the Time War. I want her encounter with them, no matter what form it takes, to be as dramatic as when the 9th Doctor encountered the last Dalek in the episode Dalek in Season one of New Who.

.... I'm burned out on Daleks. I have issues with seeing that Daleks could escape a Time Lock when Timelords couldn't. I wouldn't mind if we didn't see Daleks again for a very long time. I'd like to see Draconians before we saw Daleks; though I admit that's unlikely.

Admittedly; Day of the Doctor does provide a slight rationale for some Daleks escaping. And let's be honest; since Victory of the Daleks there is absolutely no reason to think the Daleks won't be back en masse again.

Busy couple of days, but I've now seen "Time of the Doctor" and it wasn't as good as I had hoped. There were some elements I liked, but the pacing felt a bit off in my opinion.
This message was last edited by the player at 10:41, Sat 28 Dec 2013.

Well, that beggars a very important question - if the Parliament of the Daleks are all New Paradigm Daleks, then why haven't they swept forth and conquered the galaxy overtly?

1) They're wiser Daleks. While still every bit as hateful and monstrous as their forebearers, they understand that weapons of mass destruction and use of time as a weapon will only result in destroying the universe they wish to rule. These Daleks, as shown in Season 7, seem more intent in subverting and transforming others into Daleks or Dalek slaves.  It seems that being a Dalek is not so much now as a genetic ideal as a philosophical one, and that the aim of the Daleks is to conquer by way of transformation - the ultimate subjugation.

2) The New Paradigm Daleks, while being wiser, don't have the technological prowess of the Time War era Daleks. We don't see any of the new generation of Daleks time travel, for example. Another possibility is that these Daleks deliberately limit their temporal excursions because they understand that gross manipulation of the time stream will draw the attention of other time aware groups - which we have established in our setting are folks like the Time Agency (which has been mentioned in rpg.net threads), the Great and Bountiful Human Empires (which might have their own brands of temporal defenders), the Chamber of Unwrought Time and the Justice Department (the folks behind the Teselecta, the man shaped robot that impersonated the Doctor in The Impossible Astronaut/Let's Kill Hitler/other season 6 eps), Torchwood's future incarnations, Faction Paradox (some of whom may have survived the Time War), and, if Trav is successful, the Parliament of Time. Let's not forget Phillipe/Fortuna/Evers.

3) The new Daleks are terrified of the Traveller.  With the Doctor gone (or at least perceived to be - I like to assume in my headcanon that what Clara The Dalek did has hidden the Doctor not only from the Daleks, but from casual discovery by the Traveller) They remember the Marshall, and remember that the Marshall would have committed genocide on them if she could have. I'd like to think that these Daleks would rather hide, wait and see, and try to work for subtler method than their forebearers.

4) Our current story could be taking place relatively before the New Paradigm Daleks arise. Wibbley wobbly timey wimey. The events of the 2005 Dr Who revival don't have to take place in sequence with regards to our campaign. For example, from Kate Stewarts POV, Day of the Doctor and the UNIT Vault incident could have taken place a month ago, but the Torchwood outfit is up and running over on Canary Wharf and the finale of Dr Who Season 2 hasn't taken place yet. From UNIT's POV, Doctors and Travellers of various makes roll in all the time. Sgt Patel made the comment, "Oh, a new one." for all we know, she could have spent 5 years travelling with the 8th Traveller who looks like Whoopie Goldberg but she's smart enough not to spoil the Traveller's younger 5th self.

5) Other Time Lords. We have Mister Saxon (Trav: "Yeah. Your prime minister is an ex boyfriend of mine. Don't ask.") who may or may not be part of Gary's Whoverse, the Corsair (who I refuse to believe is dead - a transgender Time Lord is too cool, and Time Lords can grow back arms!) and other unaccounted Time Lords. I as a player thought that the Rhani was behind the Splintered Sisterhood, for example.)

All speculation on my part, of course.
This message was last edited by the player at 11:21, Sat 28 Dec 2013.

Oh wanting not to see Daleks is purely for the TV series. What happens here as is established is our own version of the Whoniverse; so I'm not fussed.

In regards to Daleks in the TV series though -

Since the new Paradigm Daleks have come up; they turned up to lock the Doctor in the Pandorica at the close of Season 5; forced the Doctor into doing their job in The Dalek Asylum; at which point their memory of him was wiped, and then again they waged war at Trenzalore.

I don't think they're worried about the majority of those groups. Most of them don't have tremendous time travel capabilities - nothing beyond a Vortex Manipulator for example.

I -do- think the Doctor still scares them though. And I think the possibility of the Time Lords returning scares the crap out of them.

I am also really pissed at that particular piece of backsies. The idea that the Doctor unwillingly commited genocide added real dark heft to Dr Who and really made me take the series seriously. I model Trav a lot of off Eccleston's 9th Doctor.



This is true as well. If we're actually working in a setting where Gary draws a line at Last of The Time Lords and says nothing else counts, then I'm fine with that. An alternate whoverse where the last Doctor was The War Doctor who died activating The Moment (which is what Trav thinks happened) is fine too. But part of me irrationally wants for Smith or Capaldi's Doctor to be around the corner, from the Shadows, letting Trav do her thing, seeking out Gallifrey while his protege and onetime romantic interest (way back in his 5th incarnation, her 2nd) is forging her own legend with her own companions.

I'm sure that Gary will keep it all suitably vague in the interests of game play ;)

I can get that. My bigger beef is end of The End of Time; where it's implied the Doctor quite deliberately commited genocide on both because he didn't trust the Time Lords anymore. Way beyond any issues he'd had with them before. I'm not really a huge fan of the Time War in general honestly; but I get it had to move on from where it had been when it was last on TV.

So this implies that the Doctor is somehow a key or means for the Time Lords and the Time War returning. What's ironic here is that the New Paradigm Daleks are as scared of the Time War as anyone else, and that includes being scared of their progenitors (the Time War Daleks under the Dalek Emperor and Davros) as everyone else. The War Was Hell, to quote the 10th Doctor, so they don't want it back. A story idea is "The Nightmare of the Daleks", where the Daleks beg the Traveller to save them - from the Time War.

If Capaldi's Doctor were to make an appearance here, that would be a big point, depending on how they write him. The Marshall learned to hate and despise Rassilon and what she was forced to do in the Time War (remember all those weapons in the Vault of Omega? Someone was forced to pull the trigger!)  They fought back when she was the Marshall. I'm toying with the idea of a future Traveller being a reformed Marshall, they might clash again. But that's more grist for Trav-Doctor fan fic in my headcanon. "Gallifrey must stay dead!"

Smoke Alarm's right? Well, of course Smoke Alarm's right! :D

We had a similar problem running the Forgotten Realms D&D setting. The community started ten years ago, and a few years ahead of the then setting date. Since that time, about a year has passed in-game, while the setting advanced ten years, underwent massive changes, destruction and warfare, then went made and destroyed itself and advanced a century and two editions. We were much better off not trying to keep up. Sitting in the past is safe, especially with the slow rate of PbP.

It's why I prefer setting Who games pre–Time War: continuity and the time-lines are stable, Daleks are available, and you don't have to jump through hoops explaining the existence of the Time Lord PC.

But it really only affects Traveller, and doesn't really concern Smoke Alarm. I have my own, old-fashioned conception of Time Lords. I should play one one day.

I'm amused that the new series Time War has now completely retrod all the ideas and arcs of the EDA's War in Heaven arc, even down to weaponised regenerations (Time Lord suicide bombers, sigh). They both have their good and bad points, mostly bad. Did Davies and Moffat learn nothing?

Ugh, can't stand New Paradigm Daleks. They just look awful. I'm glad I haven't seen them since that stupid "Victory of the Daleks" (I ragequit at "Day of the Moon" and only got back for Season 7B and the Capaldi Doctor).

I wouldn't mind our own encounter with Daleks ('Cleaners!') or Cyberman, but frankly I'd prefer classic series, historical Daleks and Cybermen. (In my personal time-line, one of the two was likely responsible for people being evacuated to Paradise Towers.) They're not as powerful and easier to explain. Which raises the issue of, e.g., such-and-such Daleks being a part of history and a fixed point in time or whatever.

One encouraging sign is that most of the Daleks that we see in Time of the Doctor are bronze RTD era Daleks. I presume that they only made the 5 new paradigm Dalek props and any other Dalek props that they use have to be the RTD ones - that can be hand waved by saying that Ipod Daleks are all leader types and that standard soldiers are the RTD era bronze design (my favorite Dalek design EVAR)

I kinda agree with Smoke Alarm (Again! This is getting to be a habit.) I'm not sure I agree that the Cyberman are any nastier than they've ever ever been; but it could just be they weren't as upgraded as the Daleks were. Doomsday is the best example I have of that with 'This isn't war, this is pest control'. Yes, hilarious line, but it amps up the threat value of Daleks, or downgrades Cybermen quite a lot.

I've been hoping they'd given up on the awful Apple Daleks and gone back to the bronzies — whatever else, they were a great design. (Guess whose family brought them a framed full-size poster of a Paradigm Dalek for their birthday? :( )

The Cybermen were certainly superpowered in "Nightmare in Silver": super-speed, nanites, almost indestructible. Basically, they became the Borg.
This message was last edited by the player at 10:49, Mon 30 Dec 2013.

... I'd blocked out Nightmare in Silver.

It does support my headcanon that Cybus-Cybermen are nothing compared to the real ones though.

There's a very good possibility of the Cybermen turning up.  In Trav & Stanley's last big adventure, they opened up negotiations for a non-aggression pact with a future Cyber-empire.  (They'd found some Cyber scouts who'd been stranded on Earth and got their clocks cleaned by an Osiran; subsequently some of their information and tech helped Trav to defeat it.)

So at some point you may get back to a conference that involves figuring out how to coexist peacefully with Cybermen, which is possibly much more challenging than just beating them.

-possibly- more challenging? I think it's definitely more challenging. I mean, Ace showed us that all you need to beat cybermen is a handful of gold coins.

Ace also destroyed a Dalek with a baseball bat. The key element here is "Ace". ;) Or maybe the coins were superpowered like the baseball bat.

Yeah, let's just discount all Cyberman stories with "Silver" in the title. :D

I kinda tried to nudge things a little bit by Trav directly mentioning the Cyberiad, as if it was something she had encountered in her pre-RIFTS days (back when she ran around with Jon Pertwee in technicolor). I also tried to work with Gary in highlighting how the Time War changed things.

Of interest to Who fans -

So turns out that Bernard Cribbins (Wilfred) was in the two Dr Who Peter Cushing movies! I had no idea!

http://www.doctorwhohub.tv/?p=1593

That was the first thing I knew about him.

But he was only in the second movie, as the policeman who replaced Ian.

More interesting, is that Bernard Cribbins auditioned for the role of the 4th Doctor. And when asked what he could do, he said he could fight a bit.

"Sorry, the Doctor doesn't fight."

First thing he sees on TV, is Tom Baker knocking someone out.

A nice selection of Murray Gold music I found on Youtube -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFKwWbe-UxA

Because it gets me in a Trav/Who mood.

Ugh, Murray Gold. D:

Hey, I love Murray Gold!

Murray Gold is fine; but if you liked the classic music, it's somewhat at odds.

I find the music too orchestral, not weird enough for Who, and so in-your-ear with forced emotion.

And if I hear ooh-wa-wa-wa one more time...

But what do I know, I used the Unique II dance cover of "Break My Stride"... ;)