Legolas is level 20. And has the script writer on his side. As I say my son can hit a playing card at 20m each and every time, and he is no better at avoiding friendly fire than I am.

People don't stand still in melee, they are flinging themselves around the room, waving implements around, dancing wildly, doing everything they can to avoid being hit. (Unless they are Roman Soldiers in a shield wall, in which case they are just butchering everything in front of them).

Mostly I don't care what rules the GM uses as long as they make firing into melee a risky proposition. Personally I like about 1/3 chance of hitting the wrong target, going up to 2/3 if the target is really surrounded. Other people might like less odds. It's kind of a GM flavour of the world sort of thing. In the real world, I think 1/3 is too kind to the shooter.

Legolas is using 3.5 and has Precise Shot and Improved Precise Shot. And I think there's an Epic Precise Shot too :P

Actually I used 1 in 3 of hitting the right target. More than fair I'd say given two people were in front of said target in a relatively narrow doorway. To be honest, I'd say Luthien and Ronalts bodies gave the axeman about 80% cover, so a 33% chance was quite generous. Haldan should have had it even worse given his lower viewpoint and all the legs and shields flashing about in front of him, but he too had the 1 in 3 chance.

Of course if you do the maths, even if an archer was to hit the intended target, there was still only about a 10% chance of penetrating the armour. On the probabilities alone, shooting is near pointless, BUT the dice can be kind and every point of damage to the enemy is a point closer to winning the fight.

Those sort of numbers assume that the person is firing wildly. Even with the people in front moving, you'd have to hope that there was some aiming going on, and the person is aiming for the gap rather than their friends.

Yeah as I say, "going up to 2/3 if the target is really surrounded". Which is what you were doing.



Don't forget that you aren't shooting at stationary targets. The "gaps" are moving, the targets are moving, there are fast moving things in the way (swords / arms). It's not like shooting targets in a shooting range.

Anyway it's a "flavour of the world thing". You can easily play 'Deadeye dick' who is unnaturally skilled. Kind of like Green Arrow, or Legolas, or other superheroic characters. I like those games: lots of fun. Or you can play something that more represents the real world. We don't want it to be too like the real world of course, or we would have to include sensible rules about posture / flight or fight, and only about 5%..20% of the people could actually try and kill their target. http://www.military-sf.com/Killing.htm, and we would need to shoot 50,000 arrows for every one that actually kills someone.

Nah. It's not that bad. Most of us holy warriors 'dehumanize' our opponents on moral grounds (That's what detect evil is for...the gods aren't STUPID!) and thus slaying 'evil' prevents all these psychiatric casualties.

Four PCs left to post (5 counting Ronalt, but he's AFK at the moment).

If you are waiting for me, I would only have a filler post . i.e. I have nothing to say or contribute, as I am at the back. I'm really busy IRL, so go ahead without me

In reply to Iviana (msg # 913):

The back where a whole bunch of bad guys have jumped out and attacked you?

In reply to Iviana (msg # 913):

:o

You do realise you're now in the front line don't you?

Well, a one in three chance of hitting an opponent didn't work out too well, so Hap will return to blade use.

To clarify, he wants to get into position to get a backstab if the enemy pushes in. If not, he'll let the big fighters go ahead, then help hold their flank.

In reply to Haldan Tanner (msg # 916):

You'll be lining up after Gwythe and Amathaon for that opportunity - they've picked the prime locations up already, but there might be a bit of space still available above the door...

At this point, may I propose that my size can be a benefit, as a trade-off for the earlier penalty? Like maybe there's room for me to squeeze in on one side of the doorway anyway? Especially since I'm down alongside people's legs?

Not feeling it that I'm too small for one thing, but too big for the other.

No I didn't realise.

Thank you. Posting soon

If you like being kicked by those who probably have other things on their minds than watching where their feet are going....

Yes, your reading of the map is correct - the grid is marked at 2 foot intervals.
Personally I've always liked this http://arcadia.net/Cruinne/ADnD/index.shtml although there certainly are plenty of others out there which include more than just the basic three books.

I'm just glad that Yew rolled 1 for initiative this round. Sometimes the sequence of events makes all the difference, doesn't it?  ;o)

It certainly does! That fireball, even though it's probably going to happen on 5 (roll of 1 plus movement of 1 segment, plus miscellaneous item of 3) is going to do some damage - real shock and awe.
On the negative side though, it's likely to attract a LOT of attention from the neighbours!

What, the neighbours of a fire temple are not used to seeing a flash of fire every now and then?  ;o)

Maybe, but you're not actually in the fire temple any more are you...

OK then. So what role do I play in combat?

Hockey puck?
>:-D

Here's a thought. Overbearing or grappling could help move the enemy out of the doorway and allow others through, BUT comes with risks of it's own.
Another option (probably not available at the moment though) is using pole arms, lassos, nets, and other weapons with hooks on them to catch and drag and opponents through the doorway for the second and third lines (Haldan, Thrommel, etc) to stomp them while they're down.

@Haldan
There are multiple types of combat

1: Assaulting a room through a narrow door
    Pretty awkward. The point of a door is control entrance to the room, and it does that well. It stops lots of people getting in at once, forming a natural choke point. You are currently being choked. Given that we stormed up with an army, it's hard for the sneaky types to contribute by being sneaky. It's also hard for anyone not in the front line to contribute. In some ways it should be a priority for our guys at the doorway to push forwards or otherwise make space, so that we can get more force to bear on the people in the room. I don't think there is much that you can do to contribute to that. And I don't know if the game system supports it (forward pressure isn't a bullrush: a bullrush is a madman's tactic in the current situation)

The nets idea is complicated, and I suspect wouldn't work: historically no one did that (AFAIK: but let me know if I am wrong) It requires a degree of coordination, and drilling that I suspect we don't have. The Romans did something interesting when they finally learned how to deal with elephants (took them over a hundred years IIRC), forming lines for the elephants to run through, and let them be dealt with the dedicated elephant fighting troops at the rear of the line. I don't think we have the discipline to do that, but if we did I suspect the bugbears and/or orcs we seem to be meeting often, would be aggressive/stupid enough to fall for it.

2: Combat in an open area
    Easy Peasy: go round the back of the baddies and start stabbing. Or shoot in.

3: Combat when we have surprise
   Again easy: our front line forms a beachhead in the room, and that allows more people to filter in.

And surprise wasn't had by the PCs in this case, that's for sure!
More on that later if the party survives when the battle is won.