Karma might not be working as well as it could be right now.  I'd like to brainstorm solutions for that.

Design Perspective on the Purpose of Karma

- Dramatic glory. Used by heroes when all the chips are on the table and it is vital that something succeeds a certain way. Shooting the controller with the big red button out of the villain's hand right before they can press it, for example, or catching someone moments before they lose their grip on the edge of a volcano's rim.

- Safety net. Karma is also there to help characters who would otherwise be stunned, maimed, or killed avoid such fates.

- Character advancement. The bulk of karma is generally spent leveling up your character.

The Problem I Want To Solve

- Some players (e.g., those with reactive defenses) may feel forced to spend karma whenever they would otherwise take damage, which turns karma into another form of hit points.

- Some players (e.g., those with crowd control) may feel forced to spend karma every round to maintain a stun lock for the rest of the team, hindering their growth while enabling that of their allies.

Potential Solutions

Here are a few options. Please vote on your favorite (or, if inspiration strikes, post an alternative for discussion).

Option 1: Leave it the way it is. | Nuff said. If you love how karma works right now, I can continue to work around the current system. I want to leave it alone if you love it and it's fun!

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Option 2: Introduce a cap | Limit karma such that it can only raise rolled results by a max of 1 color. This helps prevent "everything is red" syndrome, but it makes karmic expenditures feel less epic. This is not my favorite solution, but I'm putting it out there nonetheless.

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Option 3: Introduce a cooldown | Limit karma such that once you've used karma, you can't use it again until AFTER your next turn. This prevent chaining red results via karma, but it disproportionately punishes people with reactive defenses. I'm neutral on this change.

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Option 4: Introduce a threshold | Limit karma by adding a new stat to every character that can be upgraded like any other stat. Karma expenditures would no longer have a minimum, but that stat would be the maximum possible expenditure per round. I don't hate this, but I don't love it either (for the same reasons as in Option 2). Plus, once the threshold gets high enough, we have the same problem as before.

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Option 5: Split the pools | Limit karma by asking players to divide it into an Upgrade Pool and an Action Pool (better terms to come). You'd make the decision the moment you added the karma to your sheet. Karma in the Upgrade Pool would be immune to karma penalties, but karma in Action Pool would be subject to them as normal. Upgrade Pool karma can't be used on rolls. Action Pool karma can't be spent on upgrades.

This is my preferred solution, as it encourages you to think about budgeting for your upgrades and for your actions at the same time as opposed to the current "let's just see what I have left later" mentality.

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Option 6: Reverse the Gains | Lock all remaining karma into an Upgrade Pool after a chapter ends. At the start of the next chapter, give everybody the karma they would have earned up front, in an Action Pool. Whatever's left after the chapter is over is what you'd get, with bonuses and penalties for RP, heroic actions, etc. as normal. I'm not sure how I feel about this one, honestly, but it too is a possible solution.

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So there you have it. Six possible karma solutions, one of which is to leave it alone. Thoughts? I'd love to hear from you!
This message was last edited by the GM at 18:08, Thu 12 Jan 2017.

I suffer a bit from the first problem, but don't feel hampered by it.  That might be because my "karma as hitpoints" gives me currently a LOT of hitpoints, so I'm not saying it isn't a problem.  I've also heard nightmare's karma woes on more than one occasion.  Options 5 or 6, favoring 6 seem the best solutions to me if we don't want to leave it as is, but if no one else feels strongly I like option 1, personally.

In reply to Billy Laser Fist (msg # 2):

I guess since I suffer both of the problems...

anything that would limit karma use like this (i.e. not 1, 5, or 6) would just punish Nightmare for designing to the orignal system... making her significantly worse.  Also call for a karmically expensive retoolingas her hitpoints are pedestrian at best, and is exacerbated by her... carefree attitude towards personal danger.

The biggest problem with all of the proposed solutions is that they don't really solve the problem.  If one group of characters has to dip into the karmic pool, regardless of how it is split up it would remain with other characters amassing karma while it is spent out by a group.

You could fix this by introducing a ratio to solution 5... meaning that 1 upgrade karma is equal to 1.5 action karma, or 2... not sure the appropriate level.  That would allow characters to use their defenses and abilities as planned, but not significantly hamper their development.

I think option 5 with a scaler would be a good idea.

In reply to Nightmare (msg # 3):

It also doesn't help when I keep rolling 2's and 9's on important rolls!!!!!!!!

In reply to Nightmare (msg # 4):

Would it be helpful to have powers that could be karma-powered w/o restriction?

As much as I hated losing 1/3 of my health last round, it does make it more fun for me to have skin in the game. I do like getting hurt a little and I like the nervous moment when I click "roll the dice."

My preferences are 5 and 6 -- both would give me that "on the ropes" feeling I enjoy. It's nice to see the characters in the tight spot every now and then.

In reply to Muse (msg # 5):

I am not opposed to scaling karma for option 5.

In reply to The Watcher (msg # 6):

I think my biggest problem with option 5 is that I don't want to upgrade my character very much pending a significant change in-game, just because of the nature of his premise.  I realize that's not necessarily reflective of the rest of the party, but my plan would be to need little or no karma in my upgrade pool right up until the moment I want a lot of it, due to events that were out of my control or unexpected at the time karma was allocated.  scaling karma could address that but mostly by making the choice less significant, which I dunno if that's okay.  I like option six mostly because the "let's see what I have left" mentality is my favorite part of karma.  I like the idea that you spend karma now to save your ass, or later to clean up the fallout, but this also means the same choice as in option 5 is made over and over again, moment to moment, adjusted for new information.  Much like Billy I have a habit of making decisions and regretting them in short order, but I'd rather not be punished for that on a meta-level.

In reply to Billy Laser Fist (msg # 7):

The interesting decision-making is exactly what I want out of karma. I just want to make sure that it IS interesting decision making and not feeling forced to spend karma on a majority of your rolls. There's no pressure to upgrade if you're happy where you are :)

If the system feels good as-is, I can continue to work with it!

In reply to The Watcher (msg # 8):

Perhaps we could split the baby on that... you get all your karma up front and keep 2/3 of it after the chapter?  If you want to use the more valuable 'upgrade karma' on a roll then so be it.

My problem is that I always have skin in the game... any one of those shots connecting (even the AOE) would have KO'd me.

In reply to Nightmare (msg # 9):

Yes, but that was a design decision you made when you rolled a 1-health character with a 70% chance of ignoring damage. That's still a 30% chance of death every time! Note: There is some hyperbole in the above statement. But only some.

Back on-topic, I don't mind splitting the baby so to speak but I don't really want use-it-or-lose it karma involved (unless I misread your suggestion?).

How would folks feel about this:

Option 7: Characters may (but are not obliged to) allocate karma to an Upgrade Pool when it is earned. Karma moved in this way gains a one-time bonus equal to the % of the earned karma you moved over.

Example: You earn 100 karma and move 50 of it to the upgrade pool. That's 50% of what you earned, so you'll gain interest of 50% on the amount you moved over. This means you'll get 75 karma in your upgrade pool (50 + 50% of 50 (25)) and 50 in your normal pool.

Karma in the Upgrade Pool can't be spent on rolls. Karma NOT in the Upgrade Pool can still be spent on upgrades, however.

I'm hoping that feels more like a reward for banking it than a punishment for not but I'm willing to be wrong about that. Thoughts?
This message was last edited by the GM at 21:18, Thu 12 Jan 2017.

In reply to The Watcher (msg # 10):

True, but I didn't expect her to be quite so... reckless (my own problem I know).  There must be some influence in the party who is a kind of role-model that makes her impulsive... if only I could figure out who that was......

But that's the reason why I never complained about the issue, I knew that when I made the character.  I'm fine with system as is but I'm also fine if we want to move it to a new one that is a bit friendlier to people like me ;).

Also I have a highly unreliable ability to get myself hit points and as you see I am capable of just removing myself from combat.

In reply to Nightmare (msg # 11):

Hey my reactive defense does something on white.  If you can't live up to that, pick better role models.

In reply to Billy Laser Fist (msg # 12):

I'm not sure what problem we're trying to solve.

People with reactive defenses have to roll constantly in combat, and often have to spend karma constantly too. That's the main thing. As you and Billy both have reactive defenses and neither of you seems to care too much about it, let's leave it alone for now.

I'll work with Rebecca on maybe retooling her reactive defenses to function in a more satisfying way.

In reply to The Watcher (msg # 14):

Sure.

I'm indifferent to Karma changes overall.

After reading through this thread, I'm a little confused.  What exactly makes a power "karma-powered?"

In reply to Fiernas Holm (msg # 16):

basically no roll spend 10 karma do a thing.

In reply to Nightmare (msg # 17):

Karma is your experience pool but it can also be used to rig rolls.

When you want to spend karma to rig rolls, you'd declare 1) that you're rigging the roll and 2) what color you're going for before you even roll it.

NOTE: You must declare you're spending karma and what color you want BEFORE you roll.

The end result looks like this:

[Fighting: (result of roll) -> karma to (desired color)]

So if you rolled a 22, it would look like this:

[Fighting : 22 -> karma to red]

You'd then lose karma equal to the difference between the lowest red value for that particular skill and what you rolled. Like all karma gains and losses, it's done on the honor system. If I catch you cheating (on purpose), I'll zero your karma. You've been warned :P

Important: Whenever you declare you're rigging the roll, you're committing to spending a minimum of 10 karma even if you roll you color you wanted naturally.

Also note that you cannot spend karma on rolls if you are flat-footed or surprised.

Another note: If you spend karma to get a kill result, even in self-defense, it will zero your karma pool.

It's tempting to spend karma on lots of rolls, but if you do that you'll never learn any new skills. You'd be surprised how quickly it adds up. Make sure you always have some karma in reserve to rig rolls involving your death, too...for as long as you have sufficient karma, you quite literally cannot die. (You can still get knocked out though, so it's not exactly foolproof).
This message was last edited by the GM at 14:23, Mon 10 Apr 2017.